Black & Tan

[Weihen Woman]

I was over at Beer Advocate reading about what some people consider to be the most controversial beer. Black and tans were mentioned, so I got curious about B&T fans.

I couldn't post a poll over there, so I'm posting it here.

If you're a B&T fan, vote and then tell us what you use for your B&T.

[D0nc0smic]

not as a type of beer, but i have been known to drink a proper balck and tan, made from half guinness and half Bass ale

[wortchillergoal]

I voted no as i donb't seek themout. However, Saranac outs themin their sampler packs. i will drink it if given to me. i have had only one or two prper black and tans. A girl I dated at one point, a Mich Lite drinker(didn't last), loved tro drink a proper balck and tan.

[HarkJohnny]

I have before so I answered yes... but haven't had one in a long time.

[BigHead]

What is a black and tan. You guys should drink like true blue Americans, Bud or Bud Select.

[Weihen Woman]

Originally posted by BigHead
What is a black and tan. You guys should drink like true blue Americans, Bud or Bud Select. I think you may be at the wrong forum. I can't imagine anyone voluntarily drinking any macro.

[zoom6zoom]

It's a Rottweiller, isn't it?


... nice doggie... (rock)

[hops99]

I don't think "Black and Tans" are controversial - quite the contrary. I find them boring and inoffensive, but I wouldn't turn down a proper b and t if offered one.

[hops99]

What is a black and tan. You guys should drink like true blue Americans, Bud or Bud Select.

Funny guy!

[corkybstewart]

I also would probably drink a properly prepared and served one, but I wouldn't waste drinking time looking for one.

[HogieWan]

My first AG beer was a belgian pale ale. My mash temps got quite high and the beer had an FG of 1.022. I also had a brown ale that came out quite stout-ish. Then, to complete the trifecta, I got some 25oz pub glasses for Christmas. So I made quite the tasty b&t.

[jjpm74]

Black and tan? It's called a half and half where I live.

[BigHead]

Originally posted by Weihen Woman
I think you may be at the wrong forum. I can't imagine anyone voluntarily drinking any macro.

Go back to the kitchen. Bud is a fine beer.

[Seymour]

Like HarkJohnny, I voted yes because I've drunk them before, but it's been some years. Decent, but a bit of a novelty, IMO.

[SoxyinMO]

Originally posted by jjpm74
Black and tan? It's called a half and half where I live.

Generally speaking a Black and Tan is Irish Stout with an English Ale, hence, Murphy's stout and Bass Ale.

a half and half is an Irish Stout with an Irish beer like Guiness Stout and Harp Lager.

At least that's what I was taught ;)

[xtalman]

I votred yes because I have had them and made them in the past. Both proper and using other stout, pale-red ale combinations. Makes for a nice visual but as for taste it does not really excite me.

[Seymour]

This may be a REALLY dumb question, but...

I've only had the black and tan from Guinness with the nitrogen head, and Bass Ale. If you made a B and T from the BOTTLED Guinness, no nitrogen, would it still layer out? I always assumed it layered due to different specific gravities.

[steveh]

Originally posted by SoxyinMO
Generally speaking a Black and Tan is Irish Stout with an English Ale, hence, Murphy's stout and Bass Ale.

a half and half is an Irish Stout with an Irish beer like Guiness Stout and Harp Lager.

At least that's what I was taught ;)

You had a good teacher. I was in the Dublin airport waiting for my flight home, stopped at the little pub to have my last Guinness on the Sod. As I read a book and savored my pint, a young (very obviously American) couple walked up to the bar and ordered a half n' half. The 'tender poured them both a proper pint and they looked at them sort of sideways, "We were hoping for a Guinness and Bass." The 'tender said, "Oh." and poured them a B&T. I took it upon myself to explain the difference to the confused pair.

The reason for the "B&T" moniker is based on the nick-name given to the mis-matched uniforms worn by the English army recruits fighting the (original) IRA in the Troubles of the '20s that lead to Ireland's indepedence.

S.

BigHead, AB Spud is a fine swill, nothing more.

[steveh]

Originally posted by Seymour
If you made a B and T from the BOTTLED Guinness, no nitrogen, would it still layer out? I always assumed it layered due to different specific gravities.

It layers out due to the nitrogen making the Guinness (or Murphy's, or Beamish) lighter in body and float on the other brew. No, a Guinness Extra wouldn't float, and since the bottled, rocket-widget Guinness is packaged to only shoot nitro into each tip of the bottle - I'm not sure how it would work.

S.

[The Alchemist]

I was in Cleveland, O. this past week for a conference and stopped in at an Irish pub that had a long list of beer mixtures. This included the traditional ones along with pairing beer with hard cider. They also had a local mixture of Guinness and Dortmunder Gold.
Twenty years ago I remember occasionally drinking Black Velvets made of Guiness Extra Stout and Sparkling wine(it was cheaper than champagne). A good friend of mine and I would drink these and other beers while the wives went to Saturday night mass. Those are fond memories.

[hockeynut]

It doesn't work with either of them. Tried and just had a blended beer that wasn't that great.

I do like a proper B & T or a Half N Half. Both are fine but I honestly prefer either seperate. Just my .02

[chazwicke]

I voted no. I've obviously had them plenty of times over the years but I never look for them or order them. And I don't really sanction these pre-blended Black & Tans that some brewerys bottle. I think it is silly.

[hops99]

Go back to the kitchen. Bud is a fine beer.

Ass.

[wortchillergoal]

Originally posted by steveh
It layers out due to the nitrogen making the Guinness (or Murphy's, or Beamish) lighter in body and float on the other brew. No, a Guinness Extra wouldn't float, and since the bottled, rocket-widget Guinness is packaged to only shoot nitro into each tip of the bottle - I'm not sure how it would work.

S.

I wonder if you could do it by floating the lighter gravity beer on to the heavier like the do with the liquior when making a Harvey Wallbanger.

[BigHead]

Originally posted by hops99
Ass.

Where do you want your woman. If she is in the kitchen, yoou know where she is and she stays out of trouble.

[Goban]

I like B&Ts myself. Actually, when I meet up with a good friend of mine, we usually make them. Mostly for nostalgic reasons.

Edit: Oh yeah, we use Guinness and Bass...

[jjpm74]

Originally posted by SoxyinMO
Generally speaking a Black and Tan is Irish Stout with an English Ale, hence, Murphy's stout and Bass Ale.

a half and half is an Irish Stout with an Irish beer like Guiness Stout and Harp Lager.

At least that's what I was taught ;)

It really depends on who you ask:

http://www.ivo.se/guinness/bnt.html

[steveh]

Originally posted by jjpm74
It really depends on who you ask:

http://www.ivo.se/guinness/bnt.html

That site is misleading, it's not at all sanctioned by Guinness and originates somewhere in the lowlands! ;)

I asked a bar-tender in Ireland myself.

S.

[noby]

I voted no. I've never had one, and don't really have the urge to try one.
This has come up before. Never in my pub-going life have I heard anybody in Ireland order one, speak about having one or speak about pouring one.
While I'm sure any bar person worth their salt would know how to pour one, they're just not popular at all here.
I would suggest that the only people who drink them here are tourists, be it U.S. or otherwise.

I woder how much is due to the name, or the fact that mixing pints is somewhat looked down upon.

[Jeff]

I voted yes, I don't drink a proper B&T at all, but one of my favorites at a local pub is Pyramid Apricot Ale with Guiness on top.

[DecoJuicer]

A local brewpub near me sells a chocolate stout and a raspberry ale that is really good as a black and tan.

OK, I know that it isn't a REAL black and tan, but I think it conforms in spirit.

[Weihen Woman]

I've never had one but I'm going to now. This thread has made me thirsty.

:D

[xtalman]

Originally posted by wortchillergoal
I wonder if you could do it by floating the lighter gravity beer on to the heavier like the do with the liquior when making a Harvey Wallbanger.
This works as I have done it before. You just need to be careful in pouring, once it starts to mix it does not really stay separated. It has been quite awhile since I did this though.

[HarkJohnny]

Originally posted by The Alchemist
I was in Cleveland, O. this past week for a conference and stopped in at an Irish pub that had a long list of beer mixtures. This included the traditional ones along with pairing beer with hard cider.

think that one is called a Snakebite (guinness and cider)

[HarkJohnny]

and of course there's always the tastes-like-chocolate-milk Irish Car Bomb... pint of Guinny with a shot of Baillies in it.... yum!

[PFDarkside]

There seems to be a lot of confusion over terminology, esp. with Guinness/Cider and Guinness/Champagne. I've heard them both described as Black Velvets and Snakebites, but regardless I like to have one or two of them if I've had a lot of pop or something else sweet that day. The Half & Half and Black & Tan are good session beers for me, a lot of variety throughout the glass. The Pyramid one sounds good, as does the chocolate/raspberry.

[DecoJuicer]

Originally posted by PFDarkside
The Pyramid one sounds good, as does the chocolate/raspberry.

You can do the chocolate/raspberry one at Dragonmead in Warren.

[Bloodaxe]

Originally posted by steveh
You had a good teacher. I was in the Dublin airport waiting for my flight home, stopped at the little pub to have my last Guinness on the Sod. As I read a book and savored my pint, a young (very obviously American) couple walked up to the bar and ordered a half n' half. The 'tender poured them both a proper pint and they looked at them sort of sideways, "We were hoping for a Guinness and Bass." The 'tender said, "Oh." and poured them a B&T. I took it upon myself to explain the difference to the confused pair.

The reason for the "B&T" moniker is based on the nick-name given to the mis-matched uniforms worn by the English army recruits fighting the (original) IRA in the Troubles of the '20s that lead to Ireland's indepedence.

S.

BigHead, AB Spud is a fine swill, nothing more.

Hi Steve! If I remember rightly the B&Ts were more a Police Auxilary/Militia Unit rather than Army, hence they just got issued with left over bits of uniform. As well as English they were Scots too particularly from the Protestant part of Glasgow, I suspect the Police or army thought little of them. The B&Ts were little better than thugs, but in those days governments were far more ruthless in their methods in dealing with what they saw as malcontents- certainly protesting trade unionists in England had been cavalry charged around the same time with little regard for casualties.
I'm not wanting to bring politics into all this- just history!

[Bloodaxe]

Snakebite- in the UK, anyway- is usually half lager and half cider.

[hopjack13]

i was at najas with triple H one day, and he suggested a black n tan, with all the wonderful beer there i couldn't see why i would want guiness & bass? oh no he say's ! old knumbskull with the speedway stout on top!!! ya heard! okay, well, i still don't know how they got one to float on the other but damn if that didn't put a dent in my @$$!!!! and it was GOOOOOOOOOD!!!!!!!!!!!

[Dextolen]

My wife got me a set of Guinness Black and Tan pint glasses with a spoon, so we have them regularly! You can make them with bottled or canned Guinness just fine.

[steveh]

Originally posted by Bloodaxe
Hi Steve! If I remember rightly the B&Ts were more a Police Auxilary/Militia Unit rather than Army, hence they just got issued with left over bits of uniform...I'm not wanting to bring politics into all this- just history!

Sorry, misplaced nouns and subjects - no the B&Ts weren't in the army, but they were recruited from WW1 vets of the English army - out of work since the war's end.

And agreed, all in the discussion of history, not politics.

S.

[Bloodaxe]

Sorry Steve but there is no "English" Army! The British Army consisted of Irish, Scots, Welsh and English- still does- including plenty recruits from the Republic, oddly enough.
Actually again on a historical note I wonder how many of these "old soldiers" were playing with a full deck. To survive several years in the trenches- some of them all four- probably left them completely shell-shocked, and I'm not that surprised that some of them had lost any moral values.
I went on a WW1 battlefield tour a few years ago to the Somme area and toured a few of the old Cemetaries- beautifully kept, the French are good at this- Tyne Cot cemetary has 14, 000 gravestones- makes you think. The strangest cemetary is the German one at Langemark at Belgium- the one place I was glad to leave- it has the most awful atmosphere- the British (& Commonwealth) and French ones feel almost tranquill in comparison.

[D0nc0smic]

I'd love to make one with Lion Stout sometime, can't decide what the lighter beer should be yet, but for a pure stout Lion is definately my favorite so far

[Stahlsturm]

Originally posted by chazwicke
I voted no. I've obviously had them plenty of times over the years but I never look for them or order them. And I don't really sanction these pre-blended Black & Tans that some brewerys bottle. I think it is silly.

I had a few Yuengling "Black And Tans" on my last US trip and I thought that was pretty good stuff. I would rather seek out more underground stuff but if that's the only thing available I'd happily drink it again.

[SoxyinMO]

And then there's this beauty :

http://www.homebrewery.com/images/brutul-comp.jpg

I've never tried it but it sure is cute. :D

[Goban]

I was going through my beer glasses to find a suitable pint glass for some Smithwicks I just bought. I knew I had a Guinness/Smithwicks pint glass in there that my mother in law gave me for Christmas.
After I found it I noticed that on top of the glass was printed Guinness, on the bottom was Smithwicks and on the reverse says “An all Irish Black and Tan”.

I’m pretty sure this glass came from Ireland and from the Guinness brewery. Just thought it was interesting because of the B&T note.

Also, wouldn’t a G-SW be considered a Black and Red? ;)

Maybe a Sminness Wigs or something…

[steveh]

Originally posted by Bloodaxe
Actually again on a historical note I wonder how many of these "old soldiers" were playing with a full deck. To survive several years in the trenches- some of them all four- probably left them completely shell-shocked, and I'm not that surprised that some of them had lost any moral values.

That's very much part of the questions in studying the B&Ts, that and they'd been abandoned by the "British" Army after being discharged; no jobs, no support, been in a very violent profession/atmosphere for the last few years... flammable combination.

And yes, there were Irish and Scottish (and Australians and New Zealanders and Indian) in the British Army, but their demeanor - especially the Irish in this case - is a whole second conversation for a different forum!

S.

[mookow]

Originally posted by Goban
Also, wouldn’t a G-SW be considered a Black and Red? ;)

Maybe a Sminness Wigs or something…

I've always heard them referred to as a "BlackSmith"

And then there's this beauty :

http://www.homebrewery.com/images/brutul-comp.jpg

I've never tried it but it sure is cute.

Those things are the best. Really, I use them all the time at work, and whenever I want to make a B&T at home. So much better than the spoon.

[Bloodaxe]

Agreed Steve! I do tend to get a little side-tracked! I'll have to read a bit more about the subject. Getting back to beer I think i'll have a B&T tonight or maybe a Black Velvet- Guinness and Cider.

[ClockworkOrange]

I had a few Yuengling "Black And Tans" on my last US trip and I thought that was pretty good stuff.
Living about 30 mins. from the Yuengling brewery, I have had my share of their version of a black & tan. They use a mixture of 60% porter and 40% premium beer (not their lager). I think most of their products are nothing spectacular. But, they're holding their own against BMC and will do in a pinch.

[Snoochies]

I can't believe nobody mentioned Guiness/Newcastle as a great black and tan. Have any of you tried that?

[Capt Kris]

Guiness/Bass or Guiness/Harp

[steveh]

Originally posted by Capt Kris
Guiness/Bass or Guiness/Harp

Black & Tan, Half n' Half.

S.

BTW - Guinness with two s' and two n's all you folks...Richard included!

[fretlessman71]

Ben & Jerry's has a Black & Tan ice cream flavor that is part chocolate, part cream stout. Will report back with more info. :)

[wild]

The bar crew at a local Pappas makes a proper B&T. I think it works well with the dirty rice. I would drink others if their beer menu offered more.

Wild

[SoxyinMO]

Kind of an aside to this... I was at Springfield Brewing on Saturday (I won't get into how bad the service was) and they were offering what they called an Irish car bomb. The table flyer said that it was a shot of Jameson's and a shot of Bailey's dropped into a Black Sheep (dry)stout.

Well, I like whiskey in stout so I thought why not give it a try? First, it was 1/2 a shot of whiskey and 1/2 a shot of Bailey's into less than half a pint stout. I tried to get her to fill up my stout glass telling her I'd pay for it. She was horrified..."No, no that's not how it's done." she didn't want to hear that I didn't care if it's not how others did it, I'd always marched to my own French Horn, etc. She just kept repeating " you drop it in and slam it down."

I didn't slam it because I'm just not into slamming anything any more. But let me tell you kids this: this drink was damn tasty. Al said it was like an adult Root Beer Float. I don't know about that, and I wouldn't drink it as a drink, but I guess I would consider it a hell of a dessert.

[fretlessman71]

Originally posted by fretlessman71
Ben & Jerry's has a Black & Tan ice cream flavor that is part chocolate, part cream stout. Will report back with more info. :) Well, here's the report - there's way too much chocolate in the flavor, even for me - but the stout part is indeed very good. And I don't mind the chocolate; it's just that it's so overpowering (as is the case with most B&J products) that I don't taste the stout anymore. Kind of a shame... but it's still pretty good. I'll probably get on their website and see if they'll tweak the recipe a tad.

[ClockworkOrange]

Did you find the B & J at the grocery store or was it at one of their scoop shops?

[fretlessman71]

'Twas a pint - a birthday gift from mi latina hermosa. Good ice cream, of course - when is it not? - but more stout next time, please. Mi latina postulated that it might have been this one pint that was a little too chocolatey, and she might be right - I'll just have to taste test a few more to be sure. ;)

[ClockworkOrange]

Jeremy's Microbatch used to make a Vanilla Cream Stout ice cream a few years ago that was very tasty, but they have since gone out of business:(

[skahtboi]

Originally posted by DecoJuicer
A local brewpub near me sells a chocolate stout and a raspberry ale that is really good as a black and tan.

OK, I know that it isn't a REAL black and tan, but I think it conforms in spirit.

Around here, that is called a chocolate covered raspberry. My wife loves em.

[wortchillergoal]

I just learned of a new mixed beer. It is called a mother-in-law. It is 1/2 stout and 1/2 bitter.

[stringy]

i'd not heard of a black and tan until now,
apart from the novelty value of having a 2 coloured drink is there much point?? or am i missing something?? :confused:

[steveh]

The change in flavors (when the concoction is properly poured to remain separated) is rather unique and tasty.

S.

[fretlessman71]

Does anyone here simply blend beers just for the fun of it? Like a porter and IPA?

[HarkJohnny]

funny story... i had forgotten about this actually, but the first time I had a B&T was at a restaurant and I had only kinda heard of it and never had one. (I was only in my infancy as far as real beer at the time, and maybe just 21) so the waiter brings it and for some reason they had left the pouring spoon on it. So, thinking I was supposed to stir it to mix it I did... WHOA... I ended up with a big foamy mess of a beer all over the table. anyone who saw it had a good laugh at my newbie expense.

[HarkJohnny]

Originally posted by fretlessman71
Does anyone here simply blend beers just for the fun of it? Like a porter and IPA?

i've done it with my own homebrews. i had a rasp stout that leaned WAY too much to a roasted barley flavor and I mixed it with everything I had on tap, IPA, blonde, red ale, pale ale, bitter. None were that great.

[Mill Rat]

I threw a "no" into the poll because I won't order a B&T (or an H & H), preferring to stick with the Guinness from bottom to top. If someone orders one for me, I'm not turning them down, though. I will chime in with our Deutchmann's vote of confidence in Yuengling's B & T. It's probably not much more than a good irish ale with a blessing of roasted barley, but I had it on draught at The Hearth on Rte 16 in Sardinia, NY, and it was a very pleasant brew. The more time I spend in the northeast of the US, the more I am impressed by the Yuengling's product line. Even their standard lager makes the other common US lagers run, hide, and wimper in corner.

[dparsons]

I said no because I generally prefer either a black or a tan over the mix. I wouldn't turn one down if that is what there was, I just wouldn't choose it.

[kinjar]

Originally posted by Mill Rat
I will chime in with our Deutchmann's vote of confidence in Yuengling's B & T.

I'm always willing to jump in and throw my support behind the Yuentgling B&T. It's oftern the first non pale lager someonefrom Pennsylvania tries.

What makes Y's B&T so unique is that it is actually blended Yuengling Porter & their standard Premium Beer - so it's not a traditional "Black and Tan". But it is still a great beer.

[hooky]

I voted no, but I have my own concoction.

Fill a quart jar with rasberries. Top it off with a decent to good vodka, put the lid on and let it sit in the fridge for a couple of months. Pour up to a full shot into a pint glass and pour a stout on top of it.

I'll occasionally substitute sweet tea for the stout.

[fretlessman71]

On first glance, I dismissed it... but on recollection, I bet that's REALLY tasty. :)

[Seymour]

It DOES sound intriguing; but that much alcohol all at once would probably creep up on me. I recently had a bomber of Yeti Oak Aged Imperial Stout and it was yuuuummy! But after I drank it I couldn't really feel my toes, and my wife made me swear never to drink it again:D .

[Arassuil]

A Deschutes Black & Tan using Obsidian Stout and Mirror Pond Pale Ale tastes pretty good. I managed to keep the Mirror Pond mostly atop the Obsidian Stout by getting it to trickle ever so slightly down the side of the glass after the stout settled after its pour (about 5 minutes). Without nitrogen, its very tricky and time consuming to do, but the end product had it only blended about an inch in the middle of the glass.