convert all-grain to extract

[briandickens]

I am not set up for all-grain brewing and probably won't be for a while. But I have a recipe for an IPA that sounds great but of course it's an all-grain recipe. If I convert the 9lbs of Pale Malt to 6+ lbs of Dry Malt Extract, what do I do with specialty grains? Do I just hold them at 160-170 for 20 minutes? Would that be sufficient?

--b

[ray m]

Brian...in a book I have titled "The Homebrew Recipe Guide", they give a conversion formula from all-grain to extract & vice-versa:

All-grain to extract:

---# of lbs. of pale malt x .8125 = # of lbs. of liquid malt extract;

---# of lbs. of pale malt x .6875 = # of lbs. of dry malt extract.

As for the specialty grains (for steeping), 160 to 170 degrees is good. Holding at 30 minutes should do it (when I extract brewed, I usually held the grains at that temp. for 30 minutes. I don't know if less time is OK or not). I would say that if you tossed in the grains when the water was starting to warm up (@ 120 degrees or so), then when the water got to 160-170 and you steeped for 20 minutes, you're good to go).

Hope this helps.

[briandickens]

that helps. i have that same book and i want to make the "Oak Tree IPA" but am not currently set up to do all-grain. i'll give it a shot and see if it comes out like beer or not.

[sallad]

i think its also important to remember that not all specialty grains are created equally.. you can steep things like crystal malt, but not vienna malt. well, i guess you could, but you may end up with uncoverted starches or whatever in your beer... maybe someone else can explain this in more detail..

[briandickens]

oh! that's important. i had no idea. The recipe called for 9lbs of british pale malt, 1/2 pound of cara-pils, and 3/4 lb of crystal malt. i would exchange the pale malt for pale malt extract, but i was going to steep the others. though now i'm not sure about the cara-pils.

i could always just ask tomorrow when i put in the order.

[BREWERDLUX]

Brian the carapils add body by adding dextrins. They are not fermentable. Im not really sure if that will happen when you steep them. I think you will probable get some of the effect, but im not sure. Like Sallad said, the crystal will be fine. Might think about bumping both the carapils and the crystal up just a hair so that you get the desired effect from them. Whats the worst that could happen? You will make a slightly darker beer with more mouthfeel.......Ahhhhhhhh shoot me!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[briandickens]

sound slike maybe i should leave the dextrine out.

from howtobrew.com:

Dextrin Malt 3 L Also known as American Carapils, this malt is used sparingly and contributes little color but enhances the mouthfeel and perceived body of the beer. A common amount for a five gallon batch is 1/2 lb. Dextrin malt has no diastatic power. It must be mashed; if steeped it will contribute a lot of unconverted starch and cause starch haze.

That doesn't sound like good beer to me. Maybe I should use a different recipe. Anyone know a good extract IPA? I was real excited for dry-hopping too.

[sallad]

you're pretty close, just drop the carapils all together, then maybe bump up the crystal to a whole pound.. 9lbs of british pale should equal about 6-6.5 lbs of dry extract. for the crystal, i'd go with something on the light side, not more than 40L. do a full volume boil if you can to try to keep hop utilization the same. a wort chiller will help to cool 5gal of boiling hot water!!

[Fast_Eddy]

For some reason I still don't have a wort chiller...

I've been using 60-80 pounds of ice in our garden tub...I can get it to pitching temp in 20 minutes, though

I'm buying one this week - the wife is out of town for 4 days ;)

[briandickens]

i don't have one either, and as i'm buying my kegging gear now i can't afford to buy one now. So no full boil for me.

The recipe I had called for 80L crystal malt, but now i think that's too dark. I'll probably use the 40L.

I'll see. I think I need to re-evaluate my recipe.

[sallad]

i thought we were re-evaluating your recipe here! ;)

[Fast_Eddy]

You can still cool down fast enough using ice, IMHO, to enable you to do a full boil.

A suggestion if you don't want to blow $12 on ice(like I do - two batches and I've paid for a wort chiller) each batch - sterilize 4+ milk jugs(remove labels too) and freeze them full of water. Put them directly into the wort. I've never tried it but have had it suggested to me.

A good cold break makes a noticeable difference

[Fast_Eddy]

The jugs full only full enough to allow for the expansion of the frozen water, that is.

[Beerconnoisseur]

I've tried cooling with a wort chiller, and cooling with ice.
Believe me, the wort chiller is better. I've also read that trace amounts of minerals (copper, etc.) can be good for healthy yeast growth.

One trick you can try which works pretty well is an ice filter. You take a water filter kit, like FIL32 from Morebeer (http://www.morebeer.com/), along with a
hose connector with barb, H510, and a hoseclamp, H950. Bear in mind, you may need a few additional widgets to connect everything properly, but this should be enough to give you a rough idea... So then, you remove the carbon block, fill the plastic housing with store-bought ice, close lid, and connect the filter between the your garden hose, and the water intake of your wort chiller. Turn the water on, and soon you will have the Cold Break of the Gods... Also handy if your wort chiller cools down to 100 degrees Fahrenheit, but has trouble cooling the wort those last 20 degrees to yeast pitching temperature.

The only downside is, you may need to replace the ice a few times during the process, as it melts quickly and with enough connections, the setup will probably leak... so it's best done outdoors unless you like yelling and screaming. :p

[MagTheGrate]

If you were going to spring the coin for a water filter (the FIL32 from morebeer is $32) why not just go for two wort chillers.

The theory is thus:

water from your sink goes through wort chiller #1 which is sitting in your bottling bucket immersed in ice water. Then, the *very* cold water is sent over to wort chiller #2 which is sitting in your wort. You'll use less ice, and will cool VERY fast.

I've never done it, my wort chiller chills to pitching temps in 20-25 minutes, but it seems like a sound idea. WC20 from morebeer (http://www.morebeer.com) is only $35, not much more then that water filter.

-Mag

[Beerconnoisseur]

I've seen the two wort chillers strategy (in Brewware if I remember right) and it should work OK. I have not tried it. However, I have actually tried the ice filter, and it's probably better in terms of overall efficiency. Here's why:

For 2 wort chillers, you have the ice transferring the cold to the water, which transfers the cold to the copper, and finally to the tap water, which still has to flow out a length of warmer tubing to the second wort chiller.

The downside to this is not immediately apparent; after all, if you fill the first chiller with water, and place it in the ice bucket 20 mins ahead of time, the first rush of water will cool perfectly well. But the tap water after that will require *some* contact time with the copper of the first wort chiller to become significantly colder. If that lag time is only 2-3 minutes, no problem.... but if it's 20-30 minutes, then the fun of getting a faster cold break is gone. :(

On the other hand, with an ice filter, almost all the ice placed in the filter will be used for cooling. How, you might ask? Well, the water turbulation of tap water flow helps dissolve the ice quickly, and the direct contact of the tap water with the ice removes many of the indirect layers which could waste the coldness of the ice. The only layer left is the relatively warmer tubing between filter and wort chiller.

Of course, you could fill a bottling bucket with ice, buy an electric pump, and pump it to the wort chiller. But the ice filter is simpler, and uses water pressure already at your disposal. Try it and see!

And yes, I recognize that we've gone completely off topic here...

[sallad]

i've never used an ice filter, but having just read this, it occurs to me that you could probably put salt in with your ice and water, much like an ice cream maker, to cool things even faster. just be sure to clean everything well since salt can be corrosive.

[briandickens]

i assume you guys are doing 5 gallons or more at a time. a sink full of ice water works fine for my 2 gallon boils. When i run out of ice i use frozen vegetables, and no one has noticed yet. Anyway, doesn't take too long. But then again, it's not as much.

Also, speaking of ice cream makers, i made guinness ice cream once. it wasn't too bad. not great, but not bad.