Belgian beer: An acquired taste?

[fretlessman71]

So I got these 4 St. Bernardus brews for Christmas (thanks honey!), and I'm thinking: These are revered as some of the finest beers in the world, but for some reason I've never been able to get a "taste" for belgians. Now, I'm not going to give up - EVER - and I want to be able to identify, appreciate, and enjoy belgians for what they are (and yes, I'm well aware that using the term "belgians" in such a way is unfair due to the myriad of styles that fall under that blanket statement).

What I'd like to know, and I'd love for this thread to become a resource for others like me, is the following: If you're a big fan of the general genre of Belgian beer (esp. the wild yeastybeasty aspect to the sourness), let's say you have a friend who you would like to introduce to the pleasures of Belgians. Where do you start? What do you want them to get out of the experience? What flavors do you want them to be able to pick out? What beers are more readily accessible to the untrained palate, and what beers take a more educated quaffer to appreciate?

And to my personal experience-to-be... the beers I have are the Tripel, the Prior 6, the Pater 8, and the Abt 12. It even came with a chalice with the St. Bernardus logo. Does it make sense to try these beers in this order? Does it matter?

I'm not being a worry wart here - I'm just very curious to see what all of you think.

[stronk]

OK, 36 views without a reply. I think you've scared people by asking really hard questions! I won't be able to answer many (particularly not the one about sour beers, as I have yet to get to grips with them), but here goes:

For a beginner who likes good beer in general, I'd suggest starting with some of the mnay typical 'abbey'-style dark beers. Most are not too subtle, but have very interesting malty flavour profiles. You should, in most, be able to separate out two stages to the flavour, starting with some serious malt and finishing with variations on caramel (sorry I can't be more detailed than that, it's been a long while since I had a decent beer; I've been away from home for ages).
Two things to note during your first abbey-style dubbel are: hops; for an American, there is likely to be a big gaping hole where you'd normally expect the hops to be. Also, you might be surprised (less so than an Englishman) at the huge amount of carbonation, which will alter and (IMO) interfere with the flavour. To sidestep this, I start them cold and let them warm as I drink them, which lets time subdue the CO2.

After that (or those), you can either go for tripels as another flagship belgian style or develop your palate further for dark beers, going for some of the Trappists (La Trappe Quad [not Belgian?] and Rochefort 10 are two quite different beers at the top end of the scale). If you can get your hands on Stille Nacht from De Dolle (or, indeed, anything by De Dolle), it's also top notch and very complex. Of course, if you can get your hands on Westvleteren 12 or any of the others, do so; you may not appreciate it as much now as after more experience, but you will still enjoy it (and you can put some aside for when you can't find any).
Stay clear of Stella Artois!

Now, for tripels: I don't know nearly enough about them to give you much help in picking specific ones, but I get the impression that your current dislike of Belgians is partially due to their sticky sweetness and overpowering mix of concentrated flavour, CO2 and high alcohol levels. Belgian blondes, tripels and wits are often exceptions to this rule and could make for a good entry point for those turned off by the strong, dark beers. Insofar as I can bring together any general flavours to look for in Belgium's blonder styles, I'd say spiciness in general; the point of the spiciness, though, is that it is mostly not due to the hops, which makes it more interesting and much harder to create.

And, lastly, about the St. Bernardus beers: I'd say it makes a lot of sense to try them in order, but don't finish them in order. You should have a bit left of each to go back to, especially as that means your sense of taste and smell shouldn't be affected too much by the alcohol by the time you get to 12. Personally, I'm still trying to understand their beers, as I have had occasions when I liked them and others when it was difficult to get them down. IMO, they are slightly less sweet than other examples of the same styles, for what it's worth.

Sorry for the very unprofessional reply. My scant knowledge of Belgian beer is cobbled together from chance tastings, random reading and a palate that seems sometimes to be sensitive and at other times to be completely undiscriminating.

[hops99]

Belgian beer: An acquired taste?

Yawn.

[wortchillergoal]

Fret, I wish i could be of help but all i can tell you is that I like them. It was a love at first taste kind of moment for me.

In my area it seems that many people first try products from Omegang Brewery located in Coopeerstown. everyone seems to enjoy them with Rar Vos the favorite of their offerings in y experience. Check their web site and I think you will find it helpful.

On a another note, the owner of Middle Ages Brewery doen't care for Belgain beers. i think you might be right in the acquried taste line of thinking. In my experience though I believe that enough trying will acquire the taste.

[HogieWan]

I had a problem with hoppy beers for a wihle. I didn't like SNPA the first time I had one (or the second or third, etc). I kne that it was a good beer, but I didn't get it. So I would just order one every now and then and see what happened. For a while it was the same feeling, too much bitterness and "where's the malt". Ten one day something clicked and te first sip of snpa was this beautiful hop heaven experience.

I guess my rambling just means, have some sort of belian ale every now and again. If you warm up to them, great. If not, probably better as most are pretty pricey.

[MeridianFC]

Belgian beer is a pretty wide category. I think a lot of times people use "Belgian" in the generic meaning either Trappist/Abbey or Lambic (or anything sour). There's no doubt there some out there flavors and often times severe alcoholic strength but there's also some dangerous easy drinking.

Breaking down the big ones from Wallonia and Flanders I'd get with the some suggestions rated from introductory to definitely aquired:

Flemmish Red (sour) Ales
Rodenbach
Liefman's Goudenband
Oerbier

Lambic
Lindeman's Kriek or Framboise
Lindeman's Geuze Grand Cru
Hanssens Kriek or Oudibitje
Hanssens Geuze
Cantillon (these latter two are out there)

Trappist/Abbey
Leffe
Orval
Chimay Blue
Abbaye des Rocs Grand Cru
Westmalle/Rocefort/Westvletern (work your way up the strength ladder)

Golden Strong Ales
Duvel (dagnerously easy to drink; it's such a standout beer I usually don't bother with any other)
Fin du Monde (Canada; sort of Golden sort of Triple)

Wits & Saison (most of these are easy on the tongue)
Hoegaarden
Allagash White(USA)
Wittekop
Weikse Wit (Netherlands)
Saison Dupont
Saison Dupont Avec les Bon Vieux
Fantome
Fantome Noel
Saison de Pipaix

International Pilsner Lager
Maes (not really worth the price but decent)

Other/Can't be described
Arabier
Stille Nacht
Bos Kuen
De Dolle Speical Export Stout
Poperinging Hommelbier
La Chouffe
XX Bitter
Maudite (Canada)
Trois Pisotles (Canada)


This is a difficult thing to pare down to list size. It's like asking for a book recommendation from the Library of Congress.

[eppie]

Well geee...
I feel like like should say something, but don't know where to begin. I had a hard time with belgians at the start, but know love them. I guess the problem for us americans is that hops are often a minor flavor (certain exceptions such as De Dolle Brouwerij and Hommelbier). I guess I worked my way up the ladder from the more simple to the more complex.
For beginners I always sugust Duvel or Leffe Blonde. They'll remind you enough of a pils that it won't shock you, but have yeasty, fruity clues of what is availabe. The're are so many different styles and subsorts that it is difficult to say everything, but there's a start.
As for the St. Bernardus the 8? and 12? are still clones of the current Westvleteren. The 6? from Westvleteren is now a blond and St. B. still makes the brown. The triple is thier own recipe and I think it's great. I'll give my rundown here:
6?: I honestly don't remember

8?: I buy it and think that green it's better than the West, but nothing beats the old Westvleteren. The trappist is a bit hoppier and robust.

12?: I'd lay it down for a while. I'm not a fan of the 12? young, but after a couple of years it's wonderful on a winter evining in front of the fire. It's definatley a desert beer. Don't try it with food.

The tripple: WOW! A fantastic meaty tripple. Bursting with fruity, yeasty flavour. It's follows in footsteps of Westmalle , but fruitier (think cloves when you drink it). I always drink the heavy tripples with steak. a gret beer that is difficult to find here in West Flanders, I'm suprosed you get it in the US.

Drinking them in order impies on the same day and I would not suggest that. Drink the lesser (in alcohol content) as a treat soon, and ley the 12? and tripple down for a New Years or Thanksgiving a year or twor down the line. The St. B. goblet is a nice round one as I remember, and I have none like it, but I find the large opening, and shollow body good for such a beer.

Sour reds and such thing will have to be for another post
Smakelijk!
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[HogieWan]

I have a St B goblet. I got it from my pint store as they get a bunch from the distributor

[stronk]

As for the St. Bernardus the 8° and 12° are still clones of the current Westvleteren
That really surprises me (I'd say you were wrong, but I know you're more knowledgeable on Belgian beer than me): I thought the 12 certainly was very different to Westy 12. As an indicator, I had a hard time finishing St. B 12, but Westy 12 is one of my all-time favourite beers. I have had very few bottles of Westy 8, and completely temporally separated from drinking St. B 8, but I'm very surprised if those two are supposed to be the same beer.

On the other hand, I can't remember how many bottles of St. B 12 I have had, so it may just be that I had a bad bottle. When I get home, I'll go in search of St. B 12 and then open my last 2 Westy bottles (8 and 12) along with the St. B 8 and 12 and see if I've just lost my sense of taste. I'll report back...

[Dextolen]

Good question, Fret.

My wife dislikes almost all Belgian beer, to the point of when I have her sample a new beer, she asks "is it Belgian?"

She prefers maltier english and scotch ales, mostly. There's something about the yeast profile of belgians that she dislikes.

[eppie]

Originally posted by stronk
That really surprises me (I'd say you were wrong, but I know you're more knowledgeable on Belgian beer than me): I thought the 12 certainly was very different to Westy 12. As an indicator, I had a hard time finishing St. B 12, but Westy 12 is one of my all-time favourite beers. I have had very few bottles of Westy 8, and completely temporally separated from drinking St. B 8, but I'm very surprised if those two are supposed to be the same beer.



It all began years ago when Westvleteren stopped selling beer to the public and decided to licence thier name and recipes. A local brewery recived the recipes (with help from the head brewer) and the right to use the name St. Sixtus. Years later Westvleteren decided to sell thier beer themselves again and stopped licensing the name. The brewery continued and changed thier name to St. Bernardus. They were also forced to stop advertising thier address (trappistenweg) so prominatley. Thier are surely differences, but the history stays.
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[lordkenpo]

Based on personal experience, I'd have to say that truly wild Belgian beers are the most difficult to get in to, as they are so radically different from anything most people have had before.

The one exception to this that I have found is Rodenbach: every single person that I've introduced to it, including several very devout Budweiser fans, has fallen in love with it immediately. Of course, it helps to hold off on telling them just how laden with bacteria it is until after they've sampled, as this scared my parents off from trying it at all.

But in regards to the standard dubbel and tripel, I believe there are definitely elements within each that can be found in other standard, non-Belgian styles. The first Belgian beer I ever tried was Corsendonk's Abbey Brown. Not knowing what to expect, I approached it from the standpoint of an English or American brown and found many similar characteristics in the nuttiness and rich, chocolatey sweetness. The differences are those that you would find between the "average" American wheat beer and German hefeweizen: the phenolic fruitiness imparted by an overactive yeast strain. Really, once you have a taste for abbey style yeasts (note: this may just be my reaction), most Belgian beers take on remarkably similar characteristics in regards to their big, fruity, dense flavors. It's just a matter of expecting and desiring those characteristics when imbibing.

As for wild yeasts, however, I can understand that they're not everyone's bag. I liken it to people that enjoy the smell of gasoline but can't explain why - there's just some refreshingly dirty element to it that triggers a satisfied response in some, and a disgusted response in others. It might not hurt to start with milder sour beers such as the Goudenband or Rodenbach (not the Grand Cru), and work your way toward the mindblowers like the Hanssens and Cantillon lambics.

[steveh]

Originally posted by wortchillergoal
In my area it seems that many people first try products from Omegang Brewery located in Coopeerstown.

I second this notion - split a bottle of Hennepin on New Year's Eve, yum.

S.

[denver brewhoo]

yeah, i'd say Ommegang is a good place to start too. Their dubbel--Ommegang Ommegang--was one of the first i enjoyed. Propelled me into achel, westmalle, st bernardus, etc...

On the other hand...I was already susceptible to liking these via some lighter colored beers...Val Dieu blonde, for one example. Fret, they have this at that big warehouse-type store in Thornton, I want to say Total but I may be getting confused w/ DC...

Or, what about the fantome saison, the summer one? I think that might be accessible to someone who was having a hard time getting into these...

Fret, I made a dubbel about which a judge said "This is like a dubbel lite" ...not intended as a compliment (duh), but I took it as one as that was exactly my intent when I brewed the damn thing! (prolly shouldn't have entered it as a dubbel but didn't see any other good choices, and wanted a trained objective palate to give some feedback) (still got a 36 from the other judge and a 32 from this guy...)

anyhoo maybe I'll bring some by Elways as a "training wheels dubbel" for you......

[fretlessman71]

You know where to find me! Just let me know when you're coming so I can make sure that I don't have a sub for the night. :)

[corkybstewart]

MeridianFC has an excellent point. We spent a few days in Belgium and tried dozens of beers from a very wide variety of styles. Some were pure heaven, others were the most godawful tasting stuff I've ever run across. My wife is much more of a wine drinker, so her opinion of beer is slightly suspect, but generally we hated the same beers. These days to say you can't get into "Belgian" beers is as invalid as not liking "American" beers.

[fretlessman71]

This is true. Maybe a better way to put it is that I'd like to be able to appreciate the best that Belgium has to offer and not have it be lost on me because I'm expecting it to taste like something else. Is that better?

[chazwicke]

While I enjoy some Belgians I would not put Belgium at the the top of my beer country list. It would probably fall to about 4 or 5. I do like the lambics (Not the Lindemans - I'm talking Oude Beersel, Cantillon, Hanssens) and I LOVE Rodenbach and long for the old Grand Cru.

[eppie]

Originally posted by chazwicke
While I enjoy some Belgians I would not put Belgium at the the top of my beer country list. It would probably fall to about 4 or 5. I do like the lambics (Not the Lindemans - I'm talking Oude Beersel, Cantillon, Hanssens) and I LOVE Rodenbach and long for the old Grand Cru. [
Do tell. What 3 or 4 countries could compete with Belgium in diversity and quality. If the question is best pils or ipa, Belgium doesn't stand a chance, but for the most developed, complex, and creative beers you can't beat them.
The US is great as the melting pot and many styles are wonderfully reproduced, but a land country of 10 million has a lot to teach our great land of 300 million.
Belgian does not certainly mean good(such as Stella), but it is worth a try
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[newportstorm]

Originally posted by eppie
[
Do tell. What 3 or 4 countries could compete with Belgium in diversity and quality...The US is great as the melting pot and many styles are wonderfully reproduced, but a land country of 10 million has a lot to teach our great land of 300 million.


US is #1 in my book. And it doesn't just get the homer vote. For creativity and diversity, it currently can't be beat. I do enjoy many Belgian beer and Belgian styles, as brewed by American (incl. Canadian) breweries. But many Belgian imports suffer during transport and simply disappoint. Considering the high cost of many Belgian beers, dropping a lot of $$ on one is dicey. I'm sure things would be the same for many US imports to most European countries.

Most of my beer $$ is spent on local (which can mean the entire US) beer. The same would hold true when travelling. If in England, real ale is the drink of choice. In Germany, regional lagers and rauchbier would be high on my list. Etc., etc.

Cheers!

[chazwicke]

My list would probably be:

UK first
USA 2nd
Germany 3rd
Belgium 4th

This is in no way a slight on any country and is purely personal and subjective. All of the above countries make superb beers and I love beers from all of them.

[corkybstewart]

I like Chaz's list, it reflects my homebrewing tastes. I started brewing Irish stouts and red ales, British ESB's and IPA's. I like German/Czech/Austrian beers, but have never really tried to brew them, I really have only one Belgian recipe I brew, and no American recipes.
Trying to put Belgians and Americans into categories is too daunting a task for my simple mind and tastes. The comparisons and contrasts are amazing. Each country has such a wide variety of both "good" and "bad" beers, but Belgium has an ancient tradition whereas for all pracitcal purposes Americas beer history is just starting. Its a good time to be a "realbeer" drinker.

[hopjack13]

Originally posted by chazwicke
While I enjoy some Belgians I would not put Belgium at the the top of my beer country list. I LOVE Rodenbach and long for the old Grand Cru.
they'd be at the top of mine!!!
and i second the Rodenbach!!!
afa an aquired taste????
it took me a year before i could understand the orval, now it's one of my faves!
so keep on keep'n on!

[SoxyinMO]

Maybe a better way to put it is that I'd like to be able to appreciate the best that Belgium has to offer and not have it be lost on me because I'm expecting it to taste like something else. Is that better?

It is continutally amazing to me that you can taste one beer and hate it; taste another and be unsure; the third is, uh, okay; another is good; and the next is like coming home. Sometimes the unsures & okays can move up to good; sometimes the good can drop into the okay and so forth (though the coming homes tend to be a first hit, always hit thing).

I guess Shakespeare said it best (as usual) :

I may chance have some
odd quirks and remnants of wit broken on me,
because I have railed so long against marriage: but
doth not the appetite alter?

A man loves the meat in his youth that he cannot endure in his age.

And vice versa ;)

[fretlessman71]

Originally posted by chazwicke
While I enjoy some Belgians I would not put Belgium at the the top of my beer country list. It would probably fall to about 4 or 5. I do like the lambics (Not the Lindemans - I'm talking Oude Beersel, Cantillon, Hanssens) and I LOVE Rodenbach and long for the old Grand Cru. Hmph... just picked up two bottles of Lindeman's (basically because I think mi tesoro will like them) - the raspberry and the cherry. I know, too much fruit and not enough malt and yeast, right? Alcoholic soda? OK... but I'll let you know what I think of them when we get them open anyway - I do have that nagging sweet tooth, you know. Maybe I can have my dentist remove it...

[newportstorm]

Originally posted by fretlessman71
Hmph... just picked up two bottles of Lindeman's (basically because I think mi tesoro will like them) - the raspberry and the cherry. I know, too much fruit and not enough malt and yeast, right? Alcoholic soda? OK... but I'll let you know what I think of them when we get them open anyway...

Why go into them with preconceived notions based on others' bashing of the beers? It'll be tough to do now, but try to just drink, review, decide. And if you like them, so be it. Don't let others' opinions infringe on your enjoyment of any beer.

Try this sometime - go to the store and grab a few beers you've never tried or even heard of. Don't look at what style they are and read nothing on the neck label/back label about the beer. Pour into a glass (pint, goblet, whatever). Taste. Review. Decide whether it's a beer worth buying again or not. NOW look at the label, research it online, etc. - the results might surprise you.

Cheers!

[lordkenpo]

Originally posted by fretlessman71
Hmph... just picked up two bottles of Lindeman's (basically because I think mi tesoro will like them) - the raspberry and the cherry. I know, too much fruit and not enough malt and yeast, right? Alcoholic soda? OK... but I'll let you know what I think of them when we get them open anyway - I do have that nagging sweet tooth, you know. Maybe I can have my dentist remove it...

When it comes down to it, I really have no beef with Lindeman's fruit lambics outside of their "lambic" label. A large part of what makes a fruit lambic a fruit lambic is the characteristic imparted to the beverage via yeast and bacterial interaction with the fruit. Lindeman's neuters this process, which is sad considering lambic-making is by and large an endangered artform.

That said, they are quite tasty drinks, and I've yet to find a woman that didn't love them immediately. My dad, a die-hard Budweiser fan, even said he would give up BMC were he able to find and afford Lindeman's Peche regularly. Now that's saying something.

[chazwicke]

Originally posted by newportstorm
Why go into them with preconceived notions based on others' bashing of the beers?

Just to clarify, I did not bash the Lindemans, I was inferring that I liked the tart lambics more. I think the Lindemans are OK on occasion. They are sweeter than I prefer. No bashing here.;)

[newportstorm]

Originally posted by chazwicke
Just to clarify, I did not bash the Lindemans, I was inferring that I liked the tart lambics more. I think the Lindemans are OK on occasion. They are sweeter than I prefer. No bashing here.;)

I didn't call anyone out personally. Trust me, I'd have no problem doing so. But there has been a lot of poo-pooing the Lindeman's line in the past - not only here, but on lots of beer boards (BA, RateBeer). "It's a woman's drink", "Not real beer", etc.

I just think blind tastings would produce interesting results. My experiement isn't truly blind, but it's a start.

Cheers!

[HogieWan]

Originally posted by lordkenpo
That said, they are quite tasty drinks, and I've yet to find a woman that didn't love them immediately.

Let me introduce you to my wife. She HATES fruit beers. Or any drink with a lot of fruit, really.

[corkybstewart]

In Belgium my wife tried some of the kriek and framboise beers. She never found any she liked, but she did find them interesting. Drinking them from tulip glasses she loved the fruit aroma but was always disappointed by the flavors.- She tried 4 or 5 but then went back to standard beers. She didn't like any of the spiced beers either.

[HogieWan]

My wife doesn't like "beer with too much flavor"

I try, but this is what I have to work with. My next brew will be my first lager.

[corkybstewart]

Brigitte is the same way, although for a while she was into my oatmeal stout which surprised the hell out of me. She first drank it in a Lowenbrau stein so she didn't realize it was dark beer(she picked my beer up while I was doing something else). By the time I came back she had finished my beer and wanted another. So be patient Hogie, and if all else fails trick her into drinking something she wouldn't ordinarily drink(just kidding). My Wife Beer recipe has slowly evolved into a much hoppier beer than when I first made it and she hasn't noticed the difference.

[lordkenpo]

Originally posted by HogieWan
My wife doesn't like "beer with too much flavor"

What does that even mean?!?! It's like saying, "I like food, so long as it tastes like air," or, "I love rollercoasters when they're parked."

At the risk of bashing, but without the intent, if you like syrup on your pancakes, you will probably like Lindemans at first sip.

[HogieWan]

Originally posted by lordkenpo
What does that even mean?!?! It's like saying, "I like food, so long as it tastes like air," or, "I love rollercoasters when they're parked."

I know, but I don't want to tell her that she doesn't really like beer. She may turn around eventually. She likes SNPA, but not Liberty Ale. She confuses the hell out of me.

[HogieWan]

Originally posted by corkybstewart
My Wife Beer recipe has slowly evolved into a much hoppier beer than when I first made it and she hasn't noticed the difference.

Can I see the recipe for that?

[corkybstewart]

I posted it in the Recipes forum, but if you can't find it there I'll get it to you tonight when I get home from work.

[HarkJohnny]

i don't remember my first belgian but it must have been OK because i'm still drinking them. though recently at a club meeting a member had a 4year old bottle of something that was just wretched. sourness/horseblanket and all.. he loved it and I could barely choke it down.

but Ommegang and Unibroue are just out of this world for being 'non-belgian" belgians. both make some great styles.

and recently picked up a Val-Dieu three pack with a goblet for an Xmas present to myself.

[xtalman]

Originally posted by HogieWan
I know, but I don't want to tell her that she doesn't really like beer. She may turn around eventually. She likes SNPA, but not Liberty Ale. She confuses the hell out of me.

Join the club most wives do. :D Mine does not drink much and prefers wine coolers over beer but she does always try what I am having if it is new. We were at Pizza Port last week and she tried a sample of their Imperial Stout and loved it.

[fretlessman71]

I've stated before that I believe the main reason for the fact that there are far more male beer fans is largely due to the intensity at which men and women generally experience senses. To you and I (assuming you're male - sorry Soxy and other ladies here), hops impart a nice bitterness; to most women, it's an intense feeling of "You're not supposed to drink this." Think about it: poorly decorated rooms are more of an assault to women's eyes, they're more likely to not listen to a song because of a certain sound that irritates them, and they'll even wear something because of the way it feels as much as the way it looks. Men either don't have the capacity to experience sensations at this level, or we just don't care.

I realize this is a major blanket statement, and the above may not apply to you (man or woman), but I believe that by and large, on the whole, this is the way things are, for better or worse. This may go a long way towards explaining why many, many women have such a sweet tooth compared to men, who actually have more bitter taste bud receptors in their mouths. Just a thought.

And I'm a pretty open-minded guy; if I like something, I don't have to justify it, and that goes for my wife, too. I'm happy to get her what she likes no matter what I think about it.

I may be completely wrong about the above, but my experiences with beer and most women have brought me to this conclusion. Feel free to contact NOW and have them tar and feather me. ;)

[YamahaXS]

i think the key to Belgiums is to realize that you probably won't like all of them, and you will certainly like some of them MUCH more than the rest. Personally, St Bern abt 12 is one of my favorite beers, but there are other belgiums that would actively avoid. They vary so much that thinking about them as a 'single set' (i.e., belgiums) does you a disservice when trying them. Don't let one or even 10 negative experiences keep you from exploring Belgiums.

[mookow]

Originally posted by YamahaXS
i think the key to Belgiums is to realize that you probably won't like all of them, and you will certainly like some of them MUCH more than the rest. Personally, St Bern abt 12 is one of my favorite beers, but there are other belgiums that would actively avoid. They vary so much that thinking about them as a 'single set' (i.e., belgiums) does you a disservice when trying them. Don't let one or even 10 negative experiences keep you from exploring Belgiums.

I agree. They're almost as diverse a group as American micro brews.

[Insidious Rex]

Originally posted by fretlessman71
I've stated before that I believe the main reason for the fact that there are far more male beer fans is largely due to the intensity at which men and women generally experience senses.

I don’t know about that. Are you saying its strictly physiological? I think its mostly cultural myself. I think ALL beer is really an acquired taste so there needs to be insentive to take the time to appreciate it. It generally doesn’t happen over night. In our culture drinking beer is associated with being male and macho so of course males are going to come to it in larger numbers then females. Just look at any ad to see where the focus of the beer industry is. But in other cultures this isn’t the case and you see more females drinking and appreciating beer. Germany comes to mind.

Personally, those few girls among my group of friends who drank like the rest of the guys did when I was younger went on to appreciate beer and spirits in the same way that the boys did. Many still drink beer today and like it for the taste. My girlfriend used to drink bud light and didn’t really like the taste of beer. Now she is more hard core then I am. Its room temp Imperial Stouts all the way for her. She thinks Sam Adams is like a light beer now. And this all happened in less then a year.

[Chris St Mary]

Just to throw my .02 in.........
I introduced my wife to good beer with a Raspberry lambic and she's a big wine drinker. She probably has had more beer in the last 12 years than she ever had before she met me. She doesn't drink but she usually will taste and has become quite good at evaluating good beer.
To each his own said the farmer as he kissed his cow.
My favorite beer is always the one in front of me.:D

[fretlessman71]

Originally posted by Insidious Rex
I don’t know about that. Are you saying its strictly physiological? I think its mostly cultural myself. I think ALL beer is really an acquired taste so there needs to be insentive to take the time to appreciate it. It generally doesn’t happen over night. In our culture drinking beer is associated with being male and macho so of course males are going to come to it in larger numbers then females. Just look at any ad to see where the focus of the beer industry is. But in other cultures this isn’t the case and you see more females drinking and appreciating beer. Germany comes to mind.

Personally, those few girls among my group of friends who drank like the rest of the guys did when I was younger went on to appreciate beer and spirits in the same way that the boys did. Many still drink beer today and like it for the taste. My girlfriend used to drink bud light and didn’t really like the taste of beer. Now she is more hard core then I am. Its room temp Imperial Stouts all the way for her. She thinks Sam Adams is like a light beer now. And this all happened in less then a year. Your point is well taken. I think that both culture and physiology play a role.

[SoxyinMO]

I realize this is a major blanket statement, and the above may not apply to you (man or woman), but I believe that by and large, on the whole, this is the way things are, for better or worse. This may go a long way towards explaining why many, many women have such a sweet tooth compared to men, who actually have more bitter taste bud receptors in their mouths. Just a thought

THAT's what's wrong!! I got the wrong taste buds! hee hee.
I do not have much of a sweet tooth (I rarely crave chocolate but often crave pizza and potato chips and other salty foods) & I like the fruit-flavored beers only when they are not sweet. I'd much rather have an IPA than a fruit-flavored beer. When I started drinking better beers it was all nut brown ales; now I'm willing to try anything so I guess my tastes have evolved over time.

That or I'm just weird ;)

[beerboogie]

Man I have to say something, I'm not a beer connoisseur but since belonging to this site I've tried just about everything. A novice still has taste buds. Most think I just have buds. Not as true as one would believe.

Fret, I must commend you on this thread. It has gone from beer enthusiast to a sociological comparison between men and women.
To weigh in on this matter, the paint store which I frequent, most men carry beer to the register while the women are seen with bottles of wine.

To evaluate the belgiums, not all are the same, but the LCD amongst them all is carbonation. I can get over the yeast but not the seltzer water taste. Yuck, it's like pepsi trying to be beer.

This is my own personal taste experience with what I can purchase.
Maybe I'm wrong, but I find this to be true. IMO this is the difference between american taste and european brews.

Of course I'm open to any comments pointing out my errors.
One other thing about belgium. Eddy Merckx RULES so does paris-roubaix!!!

[stronk]

This is my own personal taste experience with what I can purchase.
Maybe I'm wrong, but I find this to be true. IMO this is the difference between american taste and european brews.

Hang on just one second there, boyo! Americans are famed for coming over to the UK and refusing cask beers because they are 'warm and flat'. I agree that most belgian beers are highly carbonated, but don't think that you can even apply that to all Belgians, let alone all of Europe. Plus, US beers are not exactly under-carbonated either, in general ;)

[fretlessman71]

Ok, there's an awful lot of conjecture here, and it's obvious that no admission of "blanket statements" are going to be good enough for anyone here. So, let me rephrase the question:

When a fellow beer geek refers to Belgians, what do YOU assume they're talking about, however misguided they may be?

[Dextolen]

mainly, dubbels and trippels - i.e. trappist style ales.

[lordkenpo]

Originally posted by Dextolen
mainly, dubbels and trippels - i.e. trappist style ales.

Definitely. In my experience, if we're drinking lambic, a beer geek will tell you, "We're drinking lambic."

To unseat that notion, however, one of my dad's friends once told me he had saved me an "excellent Belgian beer" that I "had to try." Two years later, that Stella is still sitting in my parents' fridge.

[chazwicke]

Originally posted by Dextolen
mainly, dubbels and trippels - i.e. trappist style ales.

SAME!

[fretlessman71]

So maybe I'm thinking of the Trappists, the Lambics, the Flanders, and the Flemish Sours that I'd like to have a better handle on. Does this sound about right?

[chazwicke]

Fret, have you ever tried the Rodenbach Flemish Red? It is a wonderful beer and I love it. The old Rodenbach Grand Cru ranks in my top 5. I miss that one greatly. But the Rodenbach you can get now is still very good and best on tap. Try it and let us know what you think.

[beerboogie]

For my next trick I will pretend to be US Ambassador to Belgium

[doug zdanivsky]

???!!!!

How did I miss THIS thread!

Firstly, I LOVE Belgians, as you all know..

After years of drinking competant but lighter beers like Alexander Keith's Pale Ale and Belhaven Wee Heavy, my first Chimay Blue Cap was a very, pleasant change.

I'd been scared off the darker ales by an unfortunate Guiness incident years before..

To say all Belgians are as good as the trappist and abbey beers is a mistake, of course (see Stella Artois...).

I first thought the lighter beers I mention were inferior compared to my beloved Chimay and Maredsous 8..

But now I can say they were just different.. A nice mix up in the batting order..

Some days I want a nice thirst quencher, some days I want a nice meal-in-a-bottle to savour slowly..