Closest beer to cask conditioned

[Kalleh1]

My very sweet assistant bought me some beer for Christmas. She said she told the clerk that I liked "cast beer," ;) and he recommended the closest thing to it. According to him, the closest is.....tah dah..... Traquair House Ale! Do you agree? If not, what do you think the closest is to cask-conditioned beer?

He also recommended Seriously Bad Elf to her, which apparently is "a rather serious English double ale." Can't wait to try that!

[steveh]

Traquair is good stuff, although I wouldn't call it close to cask ale as bottled for the U.S. I know you'll like the Bad Elf - but Young's Special London Ale is about the closest to cask conditioned as anyone can regularly get in a bottle these days.

S.

[MeridianFC]

Any of the bottle conditioned British beers should get close (Fuller's 1845 for one). Unfortunately the vast majority of British beers don't seem to travel well or be in any way indicative of their cask counterparts. Harviestoun do something novel and package their Bitter & Twisted bottles for the export market with 30% less CO2 (according to the label). It does make it a bit smoother.

There are some drinkable keg versions (sorry Richard it's what we have to deal with) around, both Fullers and Youngs making appearances. Recently I've seen Fullers Porter and Youngs Ramrod, which are good beers. Not a patch on the cask beers available from either of those makers. I've seen Greene King Abbot and others on Nitro. Points for trying I suppose.

British cask and several domestic brewers seem to getting the slightest of fingers into the US market with Real Ale. I mentioned in a post in the DC section about the last cask night at the Reef where the Harvey's Best Bitter sold out in about two hours. I think that'd be good even for a pub o'er the Pond.

[Richard English]

Quote "...Harvey's Best Bitter sold out in about two hours...."

My new local (just 30 seconds walk from where I am sitting) sells Harveys and keeps it very well. It is a cracking beer (it won the best beer of 2005 award at the GBBF).

But, believe it or not, most of the clientele drink chemical fizz at a much higher price.

[MeridianFC]

Originally posted by Richard English
.

But, believe it or not, most of the clientele drink chemical fizz at a much higher price.

Sadly I've seen the evidence. Worse there are some establishments where the Breezer crowd makes you wish they'd even "move up" to chemfizz.

On the plus side my last trip over I can't remember walking into a pub that didn't have at least one cask beer, and with a notable exception all decent and well kept.

[Richard English]

Quote "...On the plus side my last trip over I can't remember walking into a pub that didn't have at least one cask beer, and with a notable exception all decent and well kept..."

In London and the south of England that is the norm. Unfortunately, in many northern towns, in spite of the typically vociferous protests of the northerners as to the quaity of their beer (and how much better it is than that of the southern softies) cask beer is conspicuous mainly by its absence.

When I recently visited Darlington I found only three pubs that served cask beer - and two of those had run out. Thank goodness for Wetherspoons whose pub had the usual good range of fine ales available at reasonable prices.

London is certainly the place with the largest number of pubs and the best chance of finding good beer.

[MeridianFC]

Well I was mostly in the larger urban centers. London obviously is great for the pubs but I did pretty well in Edinburgh and Glasgow too. I have heard it said that in spite of all the breweries outwith the central belt, the Lothians drink most of the cask in Scotland, a notable exception being Glencoe and the fine Claghaig Inn.

I'm usually not one for chain pubs or retaurants but Wetherspoons is a solid provider if all else fails. Hell, even if it doesn't.

[Richard English]

Quote "...but I did pretty well in Edinburgh and Glasgow too...."

Twenty-odd years ago Scotland was well on the way to being a fizz-beer desert. Fortunately CAMRA's influence then began to penetrate Hadrian's Wall and the Scots began, once again, to enjoy beer.

Now both Glasgow and Endinburgh have many pubs selling proper beer and there are several Scottish breweries now brewing the real stuff.

[Bloodaxe]

Every willing to rise to jibes about the North(!), you should have come a bit further up Richard! I've 5 pubs within a short walk from where I live("The Dolly Peel,"The Trimmers", "The Riverside", "The Steamboat" and "The Alum") and quite a few more slightly further! Across the river in North Shields- a short ferry ride away- there's a pretty good real ale trail too. Then there's always Newcastle- getting away from the bloody Bigg Market there's still some excellent real ale up there and further down the river at Ouseburn.
Northern Real Ales- How about Mordues, Jarrow Brewery, Theakstons, Sam Smiths, Black sheep, Northumbrian, etc.,etc., and think how much poorer we'd be off without 'em!
Of course London's got the most pubs! At 10 million inhabitants making it by far the largest city in the UK I'd be surprised if it didn't! How many are good pubs though?- not all of 'em by a long chalk- and being a removal man I've propped up many a bar there! I've had many a crap pint as well as a good pint- same as up here really!
Finally, I know where I'd rather live- within 1/2 mile of the coast in a pleasant little town with nice countryside to the North, West, and South of me or stuck in the middle of a big city miles from those things?!
Peace and good wishes to you Richard! Cheers, Erik.

[Bloodaxe]

Oops, forgot one! Make that six pubs within walking distance, I forgot "The Maltings"! Also within a 100 mile radius I have the Lake District- jennings, etc. Yorkshire Dales and York, Durham, some excellent alehouses in Northumberland and just outside that radius, Edinburgh!

[Richard English]

There are good beers in the north of England and there are good beers in the south. However, it has been my experience, during many visits to all parts of the UK, that it is almost a mantra in the north, "...Aye, ther's no good beers down t'south...", usually stated by with great conviction by a chap leaning on the bar, drinking a pint of Tetley's (yuk) or John Smith's (double yuk).

I quickly learnt never to argue with this as any argument was as pointless as arguing about religion. "...No good beers down south..." is almost a religious belief in some parts. And of course, my obvious southern accent marked me out immediately as a "southern poof" and thus axiomatically ignorant about the wider world ;-(

London has between 5000 and 6000 pubs (nobody's quite sure) plus wine bars and other bars such as those in hotels and theatres. Although it is the largest city in Europe, the proportion of good pubs is higher than in most other cities of my acquaintance, with around 90% of them selling good beer.

I haven't been to Newcastle for some time but, as I said, Darlington (not too far away and certainly north) was awful. I tried every pub I passed (around a dozen) and only the southern pub chain, Wetherspoons, had decent beer.

I agree that there are some good northern beers, of course; it would be foolish and pointless to deny the fact. The CAMRA awards for the best beers of 2005 are fairly evenly spread across the country as you can easily see here http://www.camra.org.uk/SHWebClass.asp?WCI=ShowCat&CatId=263

There are some pretty awful northern ones, too - including the two I've mentioned already, and the overrated and overpriced Newcastle Brown

[Chris St Mary]

From a rare American member of CAMRA-----
The best pubs are all listed yearly in The Good Pub Guide put out by CAMRA. Doesn't matter what part of the UK you are in, they will tell you know where to go....for a cracking good pub!
I'm not of UK descent but I am what is know as an "Anglophile" and I love beer so I joined CAMRA. That way, I'm kept abreast of what is going on "across the pond" for when I AM over there.
Planning a trip over in June, as we speak. Too late for footie but there's always beer to drink!:D

[Bloodaxe]

Sorry Richard- just having a little fun! I'm actually very fond of London Pride, Abbot, Spitfire, and Directors among others! As you say a good beer's a good beer. I am actually pretty lucky as both North and South Shields were some reason the first towns up here to experience the real ale revival, so I've been lucky to be able to choose real ale for most of my drinking years! Sorry you had such a miserable experience in Darlington, last time I was there I did have some decent beer but it's been a couple of years, unfortunately the young and stupid have ruined the place a little with their enthusiasm for lager, alcopops and other such foolishness! And I'll join with you in disliking Newcastle Brown- it used to be a lot better one time- it's only use now is it's better than nothing in some pubs, but only just! I detest Scottish and Newcastle Breweries anyway for the damage they've done by taking over breweries and effectively destroying them, luckily Theakstons has escaped and hopefully is on the mend!

[Richard English]

I am delighted to see CAMRA getting support from the USA. As I have said on many occasions, had it not been for CAMRA we would now all be drinking Dudweiser and its clones - and that is nothing but the truth.

The US craft-beer movement did not spring up on its own - it was started by people who had discovered the cask-conditoned beers that CAMRA had saved.

But Camra's work is not done; when 80% of British beer drinkers drink chemical fizz - the danger of seeing the extinction of proper beer is as real as ever.

Incidentally, the CAMRA publication is actually entitled the Good Beer Guide (not Pub Guide) as it concentrates on beer, not buildings. There are several pub guides but most do not concern themselves overmuch with beer. But I agree, the GBG is a wonderful drinking companion.

[Chris St Mary]

Further to the point of the original thread, any beer that is bottle conditioned is supposed to be as close as you can get to real ale (cask conditioned) as you can get without the tap. Sometimes it works and other times it doesn't. The idea is if the beer is left on yeast, it will continue to evolve, as cask ale does. There are many factors to this just as there are many factors to how your pint of cask will taste from one time to the next. Temperature, light, air and how the beer was handled are all common factors to both.

While on the subject, WHY do all these great breweries in the UK use CLEAR glass for beers that would otherwise travel and age well if they were in brown glass? Is it strickly for marketing purposes? I've had some wonderful beers while in country that just don't seem to measure up once they've traveled over here.
I understand that freshness is a factor on that one but colored glass would extend the beers shelf life. Maybe CAMRA should look into that one.:p

[Chris St Mary]

I stand corrected. My apology. I know it's the Good Beer Guide.
Been a member for over 10 years, how could I have made THAT mistake?

[MeridianFC]

When o'er the Pond I use the Good Beer Guide like most people use their lungs; often, unconsciously, and to perserve life as I know it.

[Richard English]

Most UK breweries actually do use coloured glass for their bottles but there are a few exceptions (including the awful Newcastle Brown). In my fridge I presently have Coniston Bluebird, Hopback Summer Lightning, Freeminer Gold Miner, Fullers 1845 and Youngs SLA - all of which are in brown bottles (hey - I'm running a bit short - I'll have to pop across the road and stock up)

Why there is that minority who use plain glass I cannot begin to guess since, as you say, the beer is then subject to rapid UV prompted deterioration.

[Chris St Mary]

Yes, you are right again about those beers being in brown glass but I was refering to alot of what we get over here. We do get the ones you mentioned and alot of others but a beer like Old Speckled Hen or even more so Hen's Tooth or ANY of the Samuel Smith's brews just don't seem to hold up. Too bad. Guess I'll have to spend more time over there with you lot!;)

[Richard English]

Your are right. Morlands (now Greene King, of course) are in clear glass and I tend not to buy them. In fact, Speckled Hen is not even bottle-conditioned and I rarely buy anything that's not a bca.

[Chris St Mary]

Within recent memory, we've started to see Hen's Tooth in beer stores over here. The label says it's Old Speckled Hen with yeast added so I guess that makes it a bca. Isn't that one available over there? The few times I've tried it, it was interesting and had great potential but it was light struck and had a skunky scent which tends to take away from the enjoyment.:mad:

[chazwicke]

Abbott Ale on cask is my favorite Greene King product. The Speckled hen on cask is also decent. I rarely buy either of them here in the States. I visited the Greene King brewery back in 89 and the brewer took us on a tour. They were amazed that we would travel so far to tour their brewery. I guess they get lots now. I'm betting I still have some pictures from that visit.
I too use the Good Beer Guide when I travel over but often I stumble across decent pubs on my own. I'm rarely disappointed with cask beers although very occasionally one might be a little past it's best. Only once did I refuse a beer. It was in London a couple summers ago during the record setting heat wave. It was almost lunch time and I was near Selfridges and I popped into this pub and the pint I was served was HOT. I sent it back and left. I'm certain I could find this pub again if I was in the area. I'd give them the benefit of the doubt as it was exceptionally hot outside. The Wetherspoons pubs are just fine. They almost always have a great selection and are reasonably priced too. Incidentally, Both Meridian and myself are also American CAMRA members. I have a Life Membership. We are also both members of the Chesapeake Branch Society for the Preservation of Beer from Wood. The president of that branch is also a poster on these boards.

[Chris St Mary]

What do ya know? You just keep surprising me, Chaz.
And here I was thinking I was an oddity over here (don't ask my wife or she'll tell you," Yes! He is an oddity!")

[chazwicke]

Kalleh1 is also a member.;)

Real Ale is a passion for some of us.

[chazwicke]

Originally posted by Chris St Mary
Planning a trip over in June, as we speak. Too late for footie but there's always beer to drink!:D

I'm gonna try to get over myself again this year. Have you ever been to a CAMRA festival? I've been to a couple and also to the GBBF. If you can postpone from June until early August I'd recommend attending the GBBF. Awesome is the word I use to describe it.

[Richard English]

If anyone's coming in October, Wordcraft is holding its annual convention in Birmingham from the 6th. Both Kalleh and I will be there and beer drinking will be on the agenda (with a visit to Hook Norton a possibility)

And whenever any members of this board are coming to England, if you let me know in good time I'll try to arrange to meet with you and sample a few ales.

GBBF is, of course, the finest beer festival in the world and next year it's moving to Earl's Court as it has outgrown Olympia. Earl's Court is very close to Olympia - just one stop on the tube.

[Kalleh1]

I'm not of UK descent but I am what is know as an "Anglophile" and I love beer so I joined CAMRA. That way, I'm kept abreast of what is going on "across the pond" for when I AM over there.
Wow...you and I have a lot in common! I consider myself an American Anglophile, too. I haven't joined CAMRA, but I really should. However, at one point (before I mentioned it here and other members joined) I was the only member of Fuller's club (or whatever it's called) outside of England, and I continue to get their mailings regularly.

If only I had the accent...;)

[Richard English]

Quote "...If only I had the accent......"

Accent? We don't have an accent! It's you others that have an accent ;-)

[chazwicke]

Originally posted by Richard English
And whenever any members of this board are coming to England, if you let me know in good time I'll try to arrange to meet with you and sample a few ales.




I'll let you know, Richard.

Other Realbeer members, Richard and I have supped pints on a couple of occasions and I'd recommend meeting up with him if your across the pond.

[Chris St Mary]

Yes, everyone should consider joining CAMRA if they believe in good beer and especially good real ale. The money goes to supporting their actions in the UK to look out for the beer consumer. Real ale was the first and foremost but they also work to insure you get a pint of ale for the price of a pint and not two or three fingers short because of the head. (If I'd wanted a vicar's collar I'd have gone to seminary school!) They also try to help prevent closings of breweries and prevent monopolys (sic) by the big brewing conglomerates, among many other things. And yes, they do promote local beer festivals. There seems to be at least one every weekend year round. You may have to travel but the train network is set up so that you really can go almost from one end of the island to the other for a day trip. It would probably require an overnight stay if you were in London and wanted to attend one in Scotland but so what. You get to see more of that beautiful land known as England and you also get to try regional and local beers that you might not have the opportunity to otherwise. I attended one in St. Albans (north of London) a few years ago and it was GREAT! St. Albans is also the city where CAMRA has it's HQ. Good ale everywhere!
Too bad there isn't a "CAMRA" over here nationwide. Anyone up for helping to organize our own?

[Richard English]

Quote "... It would probably require an overnight stay if you were in London and wanted to attend one in Scotland..."

The day train takes 4hours 32 minutes from London to Edinburgh so you'd be able to do it in the day. Or you could fly, which takes about an hour. Or get the overnight sleeper train which gets into Edinburgh at a civilised 0717, ready for a hearty Scottish breakfast as a good insulating layer.

Then get the sleeper back at around midnight and be back in London ready for work the next day.

And of course, if you're thus inclined after your strenuous day, there's a buffet car where you can get a few Scotch whiskeys to help you sleep.

And yes. Everyone who values fine beer should join CAMRA - which does have a US chapter.

[Wilson]

Originally posted by Richard English
And yes. Everyone who values fine beer should join CAMRA - which does have a US chapter.

I love the idea of CAMRA and what it stands for, and I've considered joining CAMRA before, but no offense, I dont really want most of my money going towards events and action in the UK. I understand the need to preserve real ale in the UK and its implecations on the rest of us, but we need MAJOR help over here and especially down South. If the CAMRA was more organized in the US, I'd be all over it. I think Chris St. Mary is right, "anyone up for help organizing our own?" I'm a follower, not a leader. ;)

[Richard English]

Quote "... If the CAMRA was more organized in the US, I'd be all over it...."

But if nobody joins and gets things going then nothing will happen. Join the US chapter and make it work; it can only be organised by locals, not by the people in St Albans.

Your subs will only go to make events happen in the UK if nobody makes anything happen in the USA.

One thing the Americans are good at is hustle; the country that was building Liberty Boats in less than two weeks apiece during WW2 should have no trouble at all in getting a little job like getting the US CAMRA chapter cracking.

[Chris St Mary]

I started a thread about just that, Richard. Not too many responses yet but plenty of viewers. Keep your fingers crossed for us. If we can eventually do HALF as well as your CAMRA, we wouldn't be doing too poorly.

[Kalleh1]

Chaz and I had talked about starting our own CAMRA once, remember, Chaz? I'd love to, but I am a little scared too because, when all is said and done, I don't know that much about beer. You probably missed one of my recent posts where Steve had to remind me that it is "bitter" and not "bitters." I'd love to help, though, if a group of us could get together on it. We could probably plan it via emailing each other or we could use Wordcraft's chat function.

If not that, can you remind me how to join CAMRA? I know that people have told me before here, but I've forgotten.

[Kalleh1]

I had linked to a previous post from my email and in the meantime missed all of these! I will look for your thread.

[chazwicke]

Originally posted by Kalleh1
Chaz and I had talked about starting our own CAMRA once, remember, Chaz? .

I do. I do. In the States I think it would be more education about Real Ale at first.

[Richard English]

CAMRA has a number of US chapters but I had heard from someone that they'd had no reply when they contacted them.

I would suggest, in the first instance, someone emails CAMRA headquarters and discusses the idea with them. I feel sure that, even if they already have US representatives, they could use more.

In the UK there are many local CAMRA branches and the USA is a much bigger place, with many more drinkers, so it will need many more local branches.

The main thing, as I see it, is for CAMRA USA to be recognised as THE body that speaks for drinkers (as it is in the UK) and it will then be able to influence drinking as effectively as does CAMRA in the UK.

As a member, Chaswyke has the same contact with CAMRA as does any other member and could readily get their help and advice.