Modified vs. Undermodified Malts

[Streci]

Does anyone know where I can get some kind of master list to denote all the different types of grains for all grain brewing? Specifically, what types to use for different beers and how modified the malts are. I hear a significant amount of information about using temperature controlled and infusion methods based on whether the malts are highly modified or not, but I don't know which malts are which. Any insight is appreciated.

Thanks...

[Mad Scientist]

Almost any malt you buy these days will be well modified. It will say specifically if it is under modified. The only thing I can think of is to get the major maltsters out the, and visit their websites. Weyermann has a good website, with lots of data about their malts.

Good luck with your research.

For the record, I use well modified malts.

[Dextolen]

Semi related, I know that some grains can't be used for steeping when you do extract brewing plus specialty grain steeping. Is there a list of ones you can/can't use and what was the reason.

[Mad Scientist]

Originally posted by Dextolen
Semi related, I know that some grains can't be used for steeping when you do extract brewing plus specialty grain steeping. Is there a list of ones you can/can't use and what was the reason.

I would rule out the use of any malt that would generally be used a base malt for mashing...ie 2-row, marris otter, pilsen malt, etc.

Generally, I think that if it has enzymes, then you probably should not steep. However, if you are finding it in the specalty grains section, you probably OK.

[BrewDog]

disregard

[brewmonkey]

What you need to look for is the Lintner scale on the malt. This will tell you the diastatic power of the malt, or the ability to convert itself/other malts. The higher the number the higher the degree of modification.

However most malts today are well modified and finding under-modified would mean looking to places like Czechoslovakia or perhaps some of the smaller maltsters in Britain and Europe.

Here is an article that should help you understand how to read a malts spec sheet. Since all manufacturers list their malt specs with a bit of Googling and hitting the malting companies websites you should be able to find the answers you seek.

http://www.brewingtechniques.com/bmg/noonan.html

[Mad Scientist]

Originally posted by BrewDog
disregard

What?

[Streci]

Thanks Brewmonkey. I will read up on this. Since most malts are modified, is it the norm to do infusion mashing? I just got my hands on a stainless steel turkey fryer and made my first all grain batch. I used 8 lbs 2-Row Pale Malt, 1 lb Crystal 60, and 1 lb wheat malt. I did temp control mashing and held temperatures at around 131-133 for 30 minutes, then 151-155 for 45 minutes, then 158-160 for a final 10-15 minutes. I basically followed Papazian's instructions. I don't think I sparged in enough water. he said 3.5 gallons in a similar recipe, and once I got that fryer boiling, I think I left it up too high for the whole boil. I had to add another 5 quarts of water in the fermenter and my gravity reading came out at 1.042.

Is there a disadvantage to the protien rest at 133 when using modified malts? Papazian says that all it will do is create a better head.

[danno]

I'd bet 90%+ of all grain brewers are doing single infusion mashes, ie mashing in at 150-155 and that's it. and there's a lot of good beer being made that way, so unless you have a specific reason for a protein rest (like undermodified malts, etc.) you can make fine beer without it. in fact, doing a protein rest on highly modified malts can thin out your beer (cite (http://www.northernbrewer.com/pics/fullsize/therminator-with-bottle.jpg))...

[corkybstewart]

Unless you are for some reason trying to replicate real Czech Budvar there is no reason to use under-modified malts, in fact it wou be a lot of extra effort just to find under-modified malt. I'm probably spewing heresy here but IOuse the same base malts , and single infusion, for all my beers. The only difference is that in late fall and winter I use lager yeasts, and spring and early fall I use ale yeasts. The only exception to this rule is in the winter if I really need to brew an ale, I use the ale yeast and ferment inside.

[Big Cat]

I used 8 lbs 2-Row Pale Malt, 1 lb Crystal 60, and 1 lb wheat malt. I did temp control mashing and held temperatures at around 131-133 for 30 minutes, then 151-155 for 45 minutes, then 158-160 for a final 10-15 minutes. I basically followed Papazian's instructions. I don't think I sparged in enough water. he said 3.5 gallons in a similar recipe, and once I got that fryer boiling, I think I left it up too high for the whole boil. I had to add another 5 quarts of water in the fermenter and my gravity reading came out at 1.042.

It looks like you had a mash efficancy of 56%. That's a little low. A few things that will help is mantaning a good temp dering sparging. I like to keep my sparg around 170* f. Sometimes that means I need to use very hot water for sparg water (around 190*) I know I loos a lot of therms in the prosses of sparging so by the time the sparg water gets to the grains it's a little over 170*. By the time it gets to the midle of the grain bed it's right close, usualy a little under. If my temp starts to drop I sparg a little faster for a wile and it gose back up.

Your protien rest was a little high. 113*-122* f is the ideal. At 133* you are at more of a beta rest temp.

One thing that I have found with "The Complete Joy of Home Brewing" by Papazian is that he recomends too little water all in all (my copy is an older run from 1984 I don't know if he has changed this in later versions). You could have sparged off more and boiled it down to 5 gal.

As for your nice, big, rolling boil. That is a good thing. It will help with hop utalization and creation of trub (this is your "Hot Brake"). You just needed more water dering sparging.

[Streci]

Thanks for the insight. I realize now that the volume for sparging was low. Papazian does seem to recommend a low amount of sparge water (3rd edition doesn't seem to have changed on this). I also followed his instructions for the foundation in the tun, but the space between the buckets cost me over another gallon. He also seems to contradict himself somewhat with his basic instructions to hold a protien rest at the 113 -122 degree range and then each of his recipes has you holding at 133. Still, his book has got me off to a good start, so no real complaints there.

I just bottled yesterday and had an FG 1.011, so that calculates to a 4% ABV, right? 1.042 - 1.011 * 105 for weight * 1.25 for volume?

How do you calculate efficiency at 56% I am thinking about getting ProMash software because everyone seems to give it high marks...

[Big Cat]

The way I did that is I took the total potential extract of the grains and divided it by what you accualy got.

This thread has some cancualtions:
http://www.realbeer.com/discussions/showthread.php?s=&threadid=9047

So the total potential gravity (in GUs, that's Gravity Units) is 375 for the grains you used. What you got was 210 GUs.

210/375=.56

The equation for the amount of extract you will get is:

Potential GUs * efficancy = total extract

For you that means:

375 * X = 210
when X = mash efficancy

With all grain you have to think in terms of total extract and not nessasaraly spacific gravity. For instance if you had boiled down your wort to 3 gal you would have a higher spacific gravity but your GUs and efficancy would still be the same.

[Streci]

Cool, good to know, thanks...