Need help!

[buddha]

For my birthday the wife gave me a kegerator kit. So I got it installed and now I am having trouble. I get nothing but foam. I have tried everything. I have read previous threads on this topic. I have tried pressure from 7lbs to 16 lbs. Still foam. I am running bud lite for now with a 4ft line and a 1 ft lift. Looking for some advice from the pros to help this novice.

[bruin_ale]

Has the keg had time to settle? What temperature are you serving at and what is the internal diameter of your beer line?

[buddha]

It is ranging from 32 to 34

and not sure about inside diameter. It has a end on it and I cant really tell.

and I got the keg and installed it on Friday night.

[bruin_ale]

The beer line needs to be 3/16" line or you'll be blowing foam everywhere. If the line came with the kegerator kit, it's probably the correct size.

[buddha]

Yeah i got it with the kit. She bought it at a bud store and seems like a really nice kit.

I am starting over with my pressure and trying to work up from a lower pressure. How long and how many glasses should i try at each pressure?

[bruin_ale]

It doesn't sound like your pressure is the problem.. How long since you put the keg into your fridge?

Another trick worked for someone on here was that sometimes the kegs are overpressurized, so you may have some luck with releasing all the pressure in the keg (and don't add any of your own) and letting it settle down for a few hours, then try tapping it again at say 10psi.

[buddha]

I put it in the fridge on friday and I got it cold.

So I should pull the ring and drain all the pressure and untapp the keg? Then later retap it and have the co2 at 10 right away?

Thanks for your help. Have the big Monday night game here in Green bay and would like to drain a beer or two during it.

[danno]

Originally posted by buddha
Have the big Monday night game here in Green bay and would like to drain a beer or two during it. to drown your sorrows with? :D (I know, I know, of all people, Vikings fans shouldn't really be talking any smack...)

[buddha]

I will admit it. It is to drown my sorrows. The Packers went to a winning team to a team on the same level as the Vikings. I need alot to drink to come to grips with that.

As for my issues with the keg. I have untapped the keg and when I get back home later for the game I will try it all over again.

Anymore advice on how to procede once I retapp it?

[Beer Monkey]

this may be the same problem your having but what I've noticed/deduced with my set up is the tower doesn't get the cold air/refrigeration that the kegerator does, so the beer line in there is a little warmer, I notice that if I'm drinking solo and not quickly that I get a large head, if I'm pouring lots of pints the tubing stays colder and the head is more properly sized, I think with my set-up it's just a design flaw. the head will drop down quickly and be fine to drink pretty quickly.

[buddha]

All of my line is inside the fridge part. Thanks for the help though.

I tried the settling and retapping and i still got foam.

Any other advice or ideas i can try? What pressure do you think should be ideal for me?

[bruin_ale]

You should be fine at about 9 or 10psi.
The formula is basically:

feet of line * resistance of line + .5 * rise in height = psi

resistance of 3/16" line is between 1.8 to 2.7 so:

4 * 2 + .5 = 8 or if you use the max resistance it comes out to about 11psi - so shoot for between 8 and 11.

[brian92]

How are you measuring the temperature in the kegerator? Best way is to put a glass of water in the kegerator and put a thermometer in it. I'd be very surprised if the temp is actually 32-34.

Do you see bubbles in the beer line inside the kegerator? If so, your pressure is too low.

Do all pours have excess foam or just the first pour?

As for calculating the correct co2 pressure, you do this based on temperature and beer type. You adjust your line length & restriction afterwards. At 34 degrees, your ideal pressure is about 10.2. At 38 degrees, it's 12.3. At 40 degrees, it's 14.4. This is assuming a standard american lager brewed at 2.6 Volumes of co2.

Once you have your ideal co2 pressure, then you adjust your beer length and restriction accordingly. The restriction affects the pour rate. The more line you run, the slower the pour. You are shooting for around 100-128 ounces per minute. The restriction for 3/16 tubing at 115 ounces / min is about 1.8 lbs/ft. At 128 ounces/min, it's 2.19 lbs/ft. So, to keep it simple, take an average of 2lbs/ft. If your actual temp is 34, you have a co2 pressure of ~10 lbs. Therefore you will need about 5 feet (5ft * 2 lbs/ft) of line. The rise of 1 ft will add approx .5 lbs of resistance as well. As a rule of thumb, too much resistence is better than too little.


Anyway, get back to us with more info and we'll have you pouring clean in no time.

[buddha]

Ok so this is what I know.

I have 4 ft of 3/16 line.

I have it at 12lbs right now and it is little over half foam and the rest is beer.

My line is black so i cannot see if I have bubbles or not.

And I talked to some one from the local Bud distributor and he said their kegs are pressurized at 12 lbs and I should run it at that.

And i am still at square one. Drinking foam. I am just frustrated and am very thankful for you guys helping me out. I can use it. i would like to get a cold glass of beer.

ANd the temp is at 35 right now.

Thanks

[bruin_ale]

Sounds like it should be working.. Here's another obvious question to get out of the way:
Are you tilting the glass when you pour?
When I pour from my faucets the glass starts out almost horizontal and I slowly tip it upright as I go.

[Nate]

I was having the same problem with my new keg kit and bud light. After trial and error just like your doing I went and bought 10ft of line from my local brew store. It worked. I know that 10 ft of line at about 12-14 psi is not what the pros suggest, but I have went through several kegs now and get about 1 inch of foam per glass, excluding the first pour. Also, bud light needs to be kept at a higher psi then thicker/darker beers, recommended 16psi - needing longer line. Try buying approx 10 ft and then cut it back if needed.

[buddha]

I say I have the glass at about a 45 then work my way straight.

Yeah after the pour I get only 1/2 beer and the rest foam. and that is at 12 lbs right now.

[buddha]

Thanks. if i cant get it I will have to stop tomorrow and get some hose.

[brian92]

The line is black? Is this a new kegerator or used? Who makes it? I have never seen a kegerator come with black line, but then again, I've always built from scratch. Regardless, I would buy some clear line and replace what you have. It's cheap and easy.

In general though, your setup should be working. Your flow rate might be a little high with 4ft of line, but if you open the faucet all the way and tilt your glass, you should still be able to get a clean pour. If you do decide to replace the line, go with 5 1/2 feet if you are going to pressurize at 12lbs.

[brian92]

Originally posted by Nate
I was having the same problem with my new keg kit and bud light. After trial and error just like your doing I went and bought 10ft of line from my local brew store. It worked. I know that 10 ft of line at about 12-14 psi is not what the pros suggest, but I have went through several kegs now and get about 1 inch of foam per glass, excluding the first pour. Also, bud light needs to be kept at a higher psi then thicker/darker beers, recommended 16psi - needing longer line. Try buying approx 10 ft and then cut it back if needed.

Just for clarification on co2 pressure rates for beer. It's not based on light/dark, it's based on the volumes of co2 (or grams/liter of co2) the brewmaster sets the beer at the brewery. From there, it's a matter of temperature. This strictly goes by standard gas laws (PV=nRT). The higher the temp, the more pressure required to maintain equilibrium. So, 16PSI in one system maybe perfect, but it could mean overcarbonation in another system that has a lower temp. Here's a link to a carbonation chart: http://www.ebrew.com/primarynews/ct_carbonation_chart.htm Most beers are in the 2.4-2.8 vols of co2 range. Bud light is right in the middle if I remember correctly. Coors light is on the higher side. British style ales are very low and German hefeweizens are extremely high.

A key point you bring up here is that you're better off with too long of a line rather than too short. If your line is too short, you're toast. I completely agree with starting off with a longer line and cutting it back to what works. It's the best 'trial by error' method imo.

[buddha]

The kit came from a budweiser store. The line is black 3/16 with a end attached to each side. A female end like on a outside hose. I take it that is not what it always is? The new line I get will it have these ends on it and if not what do I do?

At 12 lbs i get 1/3 beer and 2/3 foam with tilting the glass. I say that is about the best I get. At any other it is more foam.

I have learned alot from everyone. Thank you

So in general i should stick with 12 lbs but i should increase my hose to something longer?

[brian92]

The only thing that surprised me was the black hose/line. The female attachment on the end is correct.

2/3 foam is pretty bad. 12 psi should work for your temperature just fine. Getting new line may help just in case there is debris or any kinks in your current line and it will allow you to see the beer in the line to check for co2 breaking out. co2 breakout will occur just above the coupler and just below the faucet. If you see breakout, your PSI is too low.

Getting a longer line will decrease the pour rate. When your pour rate is too high, the beer can hit the glass too hard and create foam.

Other than that, it could be less frequent culprits like kinks in the line, stuck faucets, bad couplers, and a wild keg.

[Teej]

I assume you've probably tapped beer before and I realize I'm stating the obvious....but...just in case....

Make sure you're opening the tap handle _fully_. If you only open it a little bit "trying to keep the foaming down" by not letting it hit the glass so hard....you're only going to make the foam worse (higher pressure differential at the point where the beer hits atmosphere).

Teej

[bruin_ale]

Teej, I always have to tell people about that when they come over and pour a beer. People who have never used a faucet are sometimes afraid of the beer coming out too fast so they only open the tap halfway and get a glass full of foam.

[buddha]

I just made it from the local distrubitor and got some new line . SO in a bit I will be by the fridge trying it out. I will check back in later tonite.

I am opening it all the way from the base and tilting the glass to. I think at first i mightve been a little slow on that but I gotter down now. Now I just need it to quit foaming. Hopefully this will work.

[buddha]

Alright. I installed a longer hose. ABout 5 1/2 feet and am running at about 6 lbs. I know its low. Everything I know and read and heard I should be higher than that. Buit I get my best pours right about there. I get maybe just less than 2 inches of head in a 16 oz mug.

It is a 3/16 line again and they only had black so i cant see the bubbles at all yet. But if i go higher i get more foam and lower I get more foam.

What do you guys think?

[brian92]

If it isn't broke, don't fix it! Glad to hear you got it working. I have a sneaky suspicion that your co2 gauge is a little off. 6 PSI at 5.5ft of line would produce a very slow pour. So, you're gauge might be off by a few PSI. No big deal as long as your setup is working. Keep us posted on your next keg. It will be interesting to see if it works with the new settings.