Dry Hopping

[Payson]

I am toying with dry hopping my current batch and it occured to me that this might be an excellent way to introduce unwanted bacteria to my ambrosia.... Does the acidity of the hops keep bacteria at bay and make this a needless concern?

Thanks for any help.

[Richard English]

Hops were originally added to ale in order to preserve it (earlier ales were flavoured with other ingredients such as heather). The acquisition of a taste for hops came later and we now expect our beer to be bitter.

So, in view of the hop's preservative qualities, I suggest you have no case to worry about the addition of a few hop flowers to your finished beer.

[Fast_Eddy]

Also since most all dry hopping is done after the primary there is substantial acohol content to help kill or curtail any bacteria.

[Payson]

I was hoping or perhaps hopping (pun intended) that would be the case. What about decreased clarity? Are hop pellets acceptable?

[Richard English]

I believe that purists use the ordinary flowers. Certainly it's largish pieces of leaf that sometimes appear in my glass in Young's pubs (obviously enthusiasts for dry-hopping).

I don't think that there's any effect on clarity since the particles of hop are quite large. It's microscopic particles that cause haze.

[Fast_Eddy]

Actually high hopping rates can cause a hop haze. I have an "Imperial" IPA that I brewed at about 90 IBU that has a slight hop haze to it.

[YamahaXS]

Originally posted by Payson
I was hoping or perhaps hopping (pun intended) that would be the case. What about decreased clarity? Are hop pellets acceptable?

I believe pellets are okay, but use a grain sack. You don't really want little hop bits in your bottled beer. Even so, you are likely to get bits from pellets i bet. That said, I have only used whole leaf hops, or whole flower hops.

Contamination should not be a concern assuming the hops are fresh, not moldy.

[wortchillergoal]

I have dry hopped using pellets. The first time I used a grain bag, but the pellets dissolved down so far there was nothing left in the bag so I just throw the pellets in now. I have not really paid to much attention to haze as it does not bother me, not saying I had it ort not, I don't remeber.

[b3s]

according to others i have talked to, the best hops (meaning those with the highest alpha acid content) are made into pellets. since dry hopping doesn't spread alpha acid as readily as those boiled for a longer period of time, your best bet is to use flowers, since they have the best nose, or aroma. dry hopping is mostly about adding aroma more than alpha acids.

now, i'm not saying that is correct, i am saying that is what i have been told. it works for me...besides, my future step-daughter said "ewwww, it looks like brains!"...just another benefit of dry hopping with flowers ;)

[Payson]

OK, I went out and purchased some Fuggle hop flowers today with the intent of boldly proceeding. As Murphy's law would have it, a new concern has reared its ugly head, namely, is it too late? My concoction has been in the secondary now for a liitle bit over a day and fermentation has all but stopped. Should I even consider opening the carboy and introducing oxygen at this point? Should I agitate it to reactivate the yeast, leave well enough alone, etc...? I don't believe that the lack of dry hops would be detrimental but still.....
Thanks!

[ray m]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Payson
[B]OK, I went out and purchased some Fuggle hop flowers today with the intent of boldly proceeding. Should I even consider opening the carboy and introducing oxygen at this point? Should I agitate it to reactivate the yeast, leave well enough alone, etc...?

Payson, Payson, Payson.....relax, grasshopper. Opening the carboy up to introduce a few hop cones for a few seconds is not going to hurt anything. DO NOT reagitate...this will only risk oxygenating the beer. I would continue your venture into dry-hopping...take your airlock off, add the desired amount of cones, and put your airlock back on. If you set your airlock down somewhere, don't forget to resanitize it. I would make sure your fermentation is done, though (just a personal preference of mine, only). I have just played with the pellets, and usually letdry hopping in the 2nd-ary last for 10 days or so. Most of the hop matter settles to the bottom of the carboy, but a little bit will reagitate during the bottling process. I don't know if the cones will act this same way or not. FULL STEAM AHEAD!!!!!!!!!!!

[Richard English]

In the UK dry-hopping is done after the beer is put into the cask - maybe even after it's arrived at the pub.

Of course, if you're using a keg, with its attendant (and unecessary) gas mechanism, then you don't have the option; you'll have to add hops to the carboy.

At the risk of boring those to whom I have already made this point, I will say again that, in my opinion, the best place for carbon-dioxide cylinders and kegs is at the bottom of Lake Superior. At the Great British Beer Festival there will be around 450 Ales, all served from the cask and never a gas cylinder in sight!

Tne necessity for extraneous gas is a myth (maybe perpetrated by the US compressed gas industry!)

[b3s]

ray m said:
Opening the carboy up to introduce a few hop cones for a few seconds is not going to hurt anything. DO NOT reagitate!

first, yeah, opening the carboy for a minute or two is not going to harm the beer. i do this all the time to hake hyrdometer readings.

otoh, i always reagitate when dry hopping...just to make sure all of the hop flowers are coated with beer.

but i always add the flowers to the secondary before racking the beer from the primary, put the airlock on, and wait 30 or 40 minutes in the hopes that the air will be pushed out by the CO2 first.

not saying that process is right...it's what i do...and with good results. YMMV.

[danno]

Richard, you certainly can dry hop in a keg. The latest BYO had a little project where they soldered an angle on the inside of a corny lid, in order to hang a hop bag. Then the last half of the keg won't be over-hopped. (If there is such a thing :D )

As far as the gas mechanism argument, we'll just continue to disagree. While I absolutely love cask conditioned, hand pulled "real" beer; that sort of setup is, IMHO, not very feasible for the home brewer. (at least the employed, married, not an alcoholic home brewer...) I currently have a six tap setup, and therefore don't finish off kegs quickly. Hand pulling introduces air to your beer, and it will oxidize and get bad. Great for a pub, or a beer festival, but I can't drink that fast here at home... Not an issue when you're pushing with co2...

[MmmBeer]

Yeah, I was also wondering, Richard, without the gas how long would the pressure in the keg hold up? For a party, yeah, you could carbonate the traditional way and do without the gas but wouldn't you lose pressure fast if you were (imbibing) over the course of several days? A week? Longer?

[b3s]

actually, i have to concur on this...unless it's for a party or something, i just don't drink beer fast enough to cask condition...a case of beer lasts me about 2 weeks, i usually have a couple different ones going at the same time, and my understanding of cask conditioning is that the beer will begin to becom cidery after about one week of use.

otoh, i've considered getting one of those 5 gallon rubbermaid "koolaid" coolers with the spigot in the bottom for parties. rack to the cooler, duct tape the lid on, let it condition for two weeks, store in fridge overnight, pour a few to get the gunk out, then you are off and running.

[ray m]

Originally posted by b3s:
__________________________________________________
otoh, i always reagitate when dry hopping...just to make sure all of the hop flowers are coated with beer.
__________________________________________________

Or, you could just get a little stick from the back yard & poke the hop cones down into the beer!! hahahahahohohohoyukyukyuk!

Seriously...b3s stated something that he did, which I do too, but forgot to mention (adding hops 1st, then racking beer over them in the 2ndary). That is the best way. I guess, if you added the cones AFTERWARDS, rocking the carboy carefully would get the job done, or you could take the sanitised end of a racking cane and try poking or stirring the cones in. Never done it that way before, though.

[toneyc]

Maybe put them in a hops or grain bag with enough marbles to weigh it down? All sanitized, of course.

:)
Toney.

[Richard English]

Unpressurised beer will keep for about a week. Maybe less if it's weak and lightly hopped; more if it's strong and heavily hopped.

Of course, if you want to have half a dozen casks, each containing 9 gallons of beer, then I can see the problem if you're drinking it on your own!

But one cask containing a couple of gallons is only just over two pints a day - a very modest rate of consumption to my mind. And if the pints are of the US variety, then it's even less of a challenge!

I probably have the same problem with US measures as do you with UK ones. The common descriptor "a case" means nothing to me. How many beers in a case and what size are the beers?

I usually drink two half-litre bottles every day, maybe more at the weekend. A litre is just over two US pints; rather less than two Imperial pints.

I have noticed that the US beer we get here is supplied in very small bottles - only about 330 millilitres (just about half an Imperial pint) so I would reckon to drink about four of those in a normal evening; eight in a good evening and twelve in a rather boozy evening.

[BREWERDLUX]

Toney and I share the same idea. I place my hop cones in a new pantyhose leg. I stress the new part....... I get the nude kind and rinse them in boiling water to remove anything I would not want in my beer. Boil some marbles and tie it off. I fish it all down in the neck of my carboy and rack on top of it. To my knowledge, I have never caused anything but desirable things to happen to my beer, by doing this. Works well for oak chips in an IPA as well.

[sallad]

i've thought about using oak chips in an ipa as well... how do you use them? do they need to be boiled (to sanatize) before going into the fermenter? sounds like you use them as if you were dry hopping with them...? how much in a 5gal batch?

[BREWERDLUX]

Sallad I do sanitize mine just in case. I have a steamer and i put them in that for a couple of minutes and have had no problems with them. I dont recommend using allot, especially if they are dark toasted. They impart allot of flavor. My last IPA I added about 1/2 oz of med toast chips. It was great!!!!!!!!!!!! That and the butt load of Columbus hops I used..............

[fretlessman71]

Originally posted by Richard English


I probably have the same problem with US measures as do you with UK ones. The common descriptor "a case" means nothing to me. How many beers in a case and what size are the beers?


US measurements for cases are as follows:

1 standard bottle of beer = 12 oz. US

1 "case" = 4 six-packs, or 24 bottles

Therefore, a case is 288 oz. US, or 2.25 US gallons.

BTW... US "bomber" bottles are about 22 oz. I always assumed they got the name because they look like something you'd expect to see being dropped out of the bottom of an Allied plane over France in the early 40's.... anyone know for sure?

[Payson]

Thanks for all of the valuable insight. I believe I'll quit worrying so much and boldly proceed!

[Richard English]

That's very useful. Thus a case of beer is almost exactly 15 Imperial pints (14.99 to be exact) - probably rather less than I would usually drink in a week.

12 US ounces is just a little over an Imperial half pint (0.6245 to be exact). So two standard US bottles is slightly more than the usual measure in a UK pub.

A 6-pack, then, is getting on for 4 Imperial pints.

The 22 ounce "bomber" bottle is almost exactly an Imperial pint (1.145 to be precise). To our eyes that's not all that large - rather smaller than a standard wine bottle (25.36 US fluid ounces). A large bottle would be a quart, which is rather more than three US standard bottles.

I have never heard the term used, I have to say and the bombs we used during the second war were not really "bottle-shaped".

[fretlessman71]

Maybe we need to post a conversion chart for everyone on this site regarding UK and US measures, no? Might be interesting... sort of an "off beer, but on beer" type of topic. Very cool!

[Fast_Eddy]

Originally posted by fretlessman71


BTW... US "bomber" bottles are about 22 oz. I always assumed they got the name because they look like something you'd expect to see being dropped out of the bottom of an Allied plane over France in the early 40's.... anyone know for sure?

I would have to guess that it speaks more to what happens when you drink two or three(as compared to 12 oz cans) - which is to say that you get "bombed".

[sallad]

i always thought more along the lines of a molatov(sp?) cocktail...

[b3s]

Originally posted by toneyc
Maybe put them in a hops or grain bag with enough marbles to weigh it down? All sanitized, of course.


i've thought of doing this...but i have a question...

how in the name of j. cornelius, bob, and eris (www.fnord.org) does one get a hop sack out of a carboy let alone a hop ball into a 5 gallon carboy?

[YamahaXS]

Originally posted by b3s
i've thought of doing this...but i have a question...

how in the name of j. cornelius, bob, and eris (www.fnord.org) does one get a hop sack out of a carboy let alone a hop ball into a 5 gallon carboy?

this resembles ice fishing in many ways.

First, drink a beer or two...

Second, size up the hole and find some gear.... my favorite lure is a sanitized coat hanger bent into utilitarian shapes.

Third, drink a beer or two....

Fourth, stick your tounge out and hold it just at the right angle while you fish for the bag...

Fifth, drink more beer of course...

Sixth, pull the bag up to the hole.... Now you invoke all of the coordination and dexterity that the first 3 beers gave you, and try to sober up enough to avoid busting the carboy.

Seven, If you actually get the bag out, then celebrate with more beer. If not, then no worries friend and drink more beer. Its a win-win....JUST LIKE ICE FISHING. :D

[Richard English]

Conversions are simple when you know the real units being described. I use http://www.convert-me.com/en/ which is an excellent interactive converter that converts just about any measurement into any other.

The problem arises when people talk about such things as "a case"; "a six pack"; "a can". These terms have no meaning away from their place of use. In the case of US terms, for example, this means that about 90% of the world will not understand them.

So the idea of publishing a list of terms and their official equivalent would be useful.

For example, one US Bomber bottle equals 22 US fluid ounces
One US can equals 12 US fluid ounces

Then the rest of us can use convert-me to find out what their local equivalents are.

[BREWERDLUX]

I always just wait till I have racked the beer off of it then I use a piece of wire and fish part of the bag up. Pull it out the hole and cut it. Use the wire and dump the contents inside and pull out the empty bag. Then all you got to do is wash out the yuck and collect your marbles...........

[fretlessman71]

Here's a few others, then:

1 gallon US = 4 quarts US = 8 pints US = 128 ounces US.

1 gallon US = 3.89 liters (oh yeah - that's one more thing we don't spell the same over here).

12 ounces US = approx. 355 ml.

Any others?

[Richard English]

What I would really appreciate is the sizes of those things that are not official measurements.

Some others I've heard are:

Pitcher
Stein
Schooner

How much does each of those hold?

By the way, the common UK expressions for a drink:

A bevy
A jar
A libation
A swift one

simply mean a drink. The size of the drink will depend on the person and the situation.

[fretlessman71]

I'll ask at work tonight if any of the bartenders know how much a "pitcher" holds. (Not that any of the bartenders would be experts on the subject; I work at a seafood restaurant, and the only beer they serve that I'd even consider drinking is Sam Adams.) This is one of those things that may not be the same from place to place; my guess is that it's about a half gallon or so. Steins are similarly different, but the ones I've seen are about 22-24 oz. each.

I'll leave schooner for someone else... I always thought that was a ship, and that would be FAR too much beer for even you to drink in an evening! ;) (Really, I'm jealous; I simply can't hold my liquor and therefore have stopped trying. My limit is two per night. You say you can have TWELVE BEERS IN A SINGLE NIGHT?!? Impressive!)

[fretlessman71]

Oh yeah... here are some US expressions for a beer (sometimes also just for a mixed drink):

A belt
Suds (inspired by A-B type offerings, no doubt)
Brewski
Grog
Social Lubricant (similarly inspired)

And, seen on a T-shirt not too far from here:

"Instant A**hole - Just Add Alcohol!"

I always DID believe honesty was the best policy.... :D

[Richard English]

Well, that would be a pretty good night - and I was talking about halves, not pints, of course. As I said, too, an Imperial half pint is less than a US bottle - 9.608 ounces, be be precise.

So 6 imperial pints is equivalent to just under 10 US bottles.

As I said, this is the trouble with talking about "a beer" or "a glass" since the sizes are just not the same.

[Richard English]

Grog was originally the rum and water drink that was doled out to all sailors in the British Royal Navy (that's our fighting navy, as opposed to our merchant fleet).

The custom goes back many years and was only discontinued a few years ago.

[fretlessman71]

Yeah, you're right - but we're bridging the information gap with every reply, so this is great!

I'm still the world's heaviest lightweight when it comes to drink - 200 lbs. (one measurement we can agree on, right? And isn't that about 14 stone?) and I can feel the effects of 2 beers on me enough to fail a blood test. I salute you and your ability to hold your liquor!

On the other hand, is there something to be said for the ability - or maybe the inability - to taste the subtleties in a beer after you've had 3 or 4 or 5? I have found that my taste buds are deadened by alcohol much like the rest of me, and have been loathe to waste a really nice beer on a body that was already saturated.

I've said it before, and I'll say it again... if beer had no effect on the body, I would drink nothing else. EVER.

[Richard English]

Indeed, Avoirdupois is the same for both of us. However, we never use pounds when describing a person's weight - just as you never use stones.

And, that's correct, 200 pounds is 14.29 stone (always expressed as a singular, incidentally, just as our slang expression for a pound sterling is always "quid" and never "quids")

So "...The ten-stone weakling surprised everyone by spending 50 quid on beer and not getting Brahms...!"*


* That's Cockney rhyming slang for drunk, by the way.

[fretlessman71]

Here's the american translation:

"The 98 lb. weakling blew us all away by downing 80 clams worth of beer and not getting schnockered!"

(Yes, I know ten stone is 140 lbs, but that's our saying. Clams, bucks, big ones,
simoleans, dead presidents, all mean "dollar" over here.)

[YamahaXS]

A schooner is a large goblet that resembles a fish bowl. They holder 22 oz usually, are are very heavy since they are mostly glass. Not a very efficient way to drink beer if you ask me. They slosh and tip over easy.

[Richard English]

Just about the same size as an Imperial pint, then.

I wonder why they don't simply use British pint glasses which don't slosh and are, in my humble opinion (albeit a humble opinion that has been formed over the past half a century of practice) a near perfect vessel from which to consume good beer.

Unless the situation has changed, visitors to the GBBF will be able to purchase pint glasses and keep them as souvenirs. I, though, will bring my own pewter tankard - probably the only vessel whose utility exceeds even that of the standard British beer glass.

[ray m]

How in the hell did a thread, started by our pal Payson some days ago titled "dry hopping", get hopelessly entangled in an international debate on weights & measures?!?

[Richard English]

Because that's the way conversations develop - and these are simply conversations, albeit aided by the wonders of electronic technology!

[fretlessman71]

It WAS titled "Dry Hopping." Now, we're just HOPPING from one topic to the next... and since it's still early afternoon on this side of the pond, most of us haven't had a beer yet, so we're DRY, right? (It's a stretch, I know, but if you think that's bad, you ought to see my next posting.... :D )

[YamahaXS]

i think we should try to get a grant from the Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation so that we can fly all of us (Beer in tow) to some city, rent out a hotel, and get drunk drinking everyone elses beer. Now THAT would be a conversation!

[sallad]

well, we'd have to prove to them that we're some sort of under-priviledged educational institution, but we could pull that off. i mean, we're all learning all kinds of stuff on here, and the last time i checked my funding could use some subsidisation.

[YamahaXS]

LOL so true Sallad, but I think you mean sudsidation!

[b3s]

Originally posted by fretlessman71
I'll ask at work tonight if any of the bartenders know how much a "pitcher" holds.

approximately 5 pints or 6 "standard" (12 oz.) glasses. this is based on way TOO much idle time while unemployed -- this is pretty much how things go at all restaurants...i get 3-4 pints, my fianceé gets 1-2 pints per pitcher.

i think we can all settle on what a yard or .5 yards of beer is, right ;)


I'll leave schooner for someone else... I always thought that was a ship, and that would be FAR too much beer for even you to drink in an evening! (Really, I'm jealous; I simply can't hold my liquor and therefore have stopped trying. My limit is two per night. You say you can have TWELVE BEERS IN A SINGLE NIGHT?!? Impressive!)

too much beer? that's like too much fun or too much whiskey, right? (congrats to those who can name that tune!)

twelve is my lower limit on occassions...weekdays i nurse (depending on if i have the afterwork martini -- note: this means i am actually working...and yeah, i love my new job; i expect that feeling to disappear within 4 weeks though) 1-3 beers, but 12 on a friday or saturday is nothing...at about 15 i get full and have to switch to mixed drinks.

[b3s]

Originally posted by Richard English
Well, that would be a pretty good night - and I was talking about halves, not pints, of course. As I said, too, an Imperial half pint is less than a US bottle - 9.608 ounces, be be precise.

So 6 imperial pints is equivalent to just under 10 US bottles.

As I said, this is the trouble with talking about "a beer" or "a glass" since the sizes are just not the same.

if the pub i frequent served halves i'd be in more of a financial pickle than i already am!