Baby food smell

[Dextolen]

I transferred my first cream ale last night, the smell was...not the best... sort of like creamed vegetables/babyfood?

The recipe included 4 lbs extra light DME and 2 lbs rice syrup solids. I used european ale yeast. The ferment was ho-hum. It took 36 hours to start bubbling and only lasted 4 days.

Would any of these give me a funky/vegetable smell or is this batch infested? Will this be my first drainpour?

[steveh]

DMS. I'm no pro like some of the others who will answer, but I'm pretty sure that ought to settle down with some time. I believe some cold lagering could help too.

S.

[Derekt2]

Originally posted by steveh
DMS. I'm no pro like some of the others who will answer, but I'm pretty sure that ought to settle down with some time. I believe some cold lagering could help too.

S.

Could also be diacetyl but I am not familiar with that yeast. If that's teh case tho it's appropriate for the style and nothing to worry about. For that matter, a little DMS would be okay too.

[Dextolen]

I think you guys might be right. My dummies book mentions that xtra light DME brings the DMS, but that it's chased off eventually.

Let's hope that's what it is.

[Derekt2]

Originally posted by Dextolen
I think you guys might be right. My dummies book mentions that xtra light DME brings the DMS, but that it's chased off eventually.

Let's hope that's what it is.

Umm, that's a new on me. In the case of all-grain wort anyway DMS is most often produced when the brewer fails to cool the wort rapidly (enough).

[BrewDog]

DMS is also caused by covering the pot during the boil.
Let it age. It might go away (or at least diminish).

Let us know how it ends up.
Good luck-

[Dextolen]

I never cover the brewpot and I use an immersion wort chiller.

[danno]

DMS is still produced down to (IIRC) about 180ºF, but is boiled away. the gap between boiling and 180º while DMS is still produced but not boiled away is why it's important to chill ASAP.

DMS can also be a bacterial infection, but I wouldn't toss the batch until it's aged awhile...

[HogieWan]

Originally posted by Dextolen
I never cover the brewpot and I use an immersion wort chiller.

maybe you need a cfc (http://www.realbeer.com/discussions/showthread.php?s=&threadid=8766#post107211)

[Dextolen]

Hey, good news everyone, the smell was indeed DMS and it's completely gone after secondary. It smells wonderful and I sampled some and it tastes fine. Thanks for the sagely advice that prevented me from dumping this batch too soon. This is the lightest color ale I've ever made.

[Teej]

Originally posted by HogieWan
maybe you need a cfc (http://www.realbeer.com/discussions/showthread.php?s=&threadid=8766#post107211)

Hmmm. How quick does an immersion chiller drop the whole batch below 180 vs how long it takes to process the entire batch through a CFC since any CFCed beer is still going to be > 180 for a long time....?

I know my immersion system drops to the 150 range VERY quickly, but slows down drastically from there.

Seems the best idea would be to run both. If not together, then run the IC to drop below 180 and then start drainage through the CFC.

[HogieWan]

But the rapid chilling of each bit of beer prevents DMS. With a CFC a bit of beer chills independently of the rest and very quickly while the whole pot chills together with an immersion

[Teej]

Right...but...it has been stated (I don't know if it's correct or not) that DMS is produced above 180 degrees and below boil.

So unless you maintain a boil while drawing off through the CFC, then the entire portion of the wort that hasn't been run through the CFC yet is going to be between 180 and boiling. Not having run a CFC, my question is "How long does it take to properly cool 5 gallons through a CFC"?

I'm _assuming_ the flow has to be restricted and you can't use a "full speed siphon" which would take 10-15 minutes on its own anyway...

With an immersion chiller, dropping the entire 5 gallons that I boil to a temp below 180 happens very, very quickly. I'd say within 2-3 minutes. It's once it gets down to ~ 150 that the cooling really slows down as the temp differential isn't as gread.

I could be wrong - I'm pulling that 2-3 minutes out of my arse but I know it's a very short time.

After that same short time with a CFC, you have a small quantity of "DMS Safe" beer in the ferementer and 50? 80? % of your beer still producing DMS.

[HogieWan]

It was my understading (I could be wrong) that the wort at near boiling temps is almost entirely safe from DMS production. So, as long as the wort in the pot doesnt cool too much before going through the cfc, all is good.

[danno]

can anyone look up p.142 in Fix's "Principals of Brewing Science" and see what he says on DMS production? I don't have that book, but see several references to that page in old HBD's...

here's some interesting math about DMS production (http://brewery.org/brewery/library/ThermoCS0995.html), showing how boiling and chilling time affects SMM/DMS production...

[toneyc]

Originally posted by danno
here's some interesting math about DMS production (http://brewery.org/brewery/library/ThermoCS0995.html), showing how boiling and chilling time affects SMM/DMS production...

That was a great article! I'm most interested in that last paragraph where he says " If anyone wants to build a simple plate exchanger...". Seeing as the article is ten years old, I hesitate to try to contact the author. Does anyone else have any information on a DIY plate exchanger?

I keep thinking of the main condenser on the ship I was on. It was 6-8 feet in diameter and 8-10 feet long, IIRC. I shoulda paid more attention, I guess.

:)
Toney.

[Thirdrail]

I use 2 IC's and they seem to work very well....one in the wort and the other in a sinkfull of ice water

[HogieWan]

Originally posted by Thirdrail
I use 2 IC's and they seem to work very well....one in the wort and the other in a sinkfull of ice water

I'm going to get an IC to put in ice water for my cfc chill water. That way I can run the wort through at full blast and get in under 10 min.