Liefmams Goudenband

[Goban]

I was on my way home from work and stopped to get this beer I've been keeping my eyes on for some time: Liefmans Goudenband.

Wow. I’m not a professional beer critic, but this beer is great!

How does it stack up to your standards?

It's an easy 8 or even 9 in my experience.

[HogieWan]

I really like that one. Nice full malt flavor with that belgian sweet but dry finish

[chazwicke]

Liefmans is superior to Lindemans IMHO. I'm not too fond of the sweet Belgians. Give me a nice tart kriek or for that matter a Flemish Red Ale. (I long for the Rodenbach Grand Cru of old.)

[beerking]

If you want to get away from the sweeter lambics, liefmann's is only a start. try Cantillion, and if that isn't to sour/tart/horsey for you, go right to Hannsens!

[chazwicke]

Love both Cantillon and Hannsens. Most of both lines. Wonderful beers. :)

I've got some Cantillon in the fridge at home and this thread is making me thirsty.

[JorisP]

Guys, I'm very sorry to sound pedantic, but Liefmans has NOTHING in common - but the added sour cherries - with all the other beers you're talking of. Liefmans is (dark) Oudenaards bruin (= top fermenting ale), whilst the others are lambic, spontaneous fermentation from the Payottenland. It's like comparing Doppelbock with Barley Wines, they're both rich and powerfull, but... That Liefmans has a "Kriek" means they add the cherries to that beer, as is done with the lambics, but the base is completely different.

[chazwicke]

Well all of the other beers are beers I dearly love. The Liefmans is good but not on the level of the others. Thanks for the clarification. I tend to lump Bruins, Red Ales, and lambics in the same general catagory. I like most of them with the exception of some of those that have the candy sugar added or are two sweet.

[beerking]

Jorisp, while right that Liefmanns is not a lambic, overstates the matter. Liefmanns is an Oude Bruin, which has a LOT in common with lambics. Lambics are spontaneously fermented with a lot of "non-beer" yeast and bacteria, such as Brett and pediococcus. Liefmanns presumably does not have either of those critters in it, since it is not spontaneously fermented.

However, BOTH Oude Bruin and Lambic are oak aged, in barrels with significant bacterial cultures resident, primarily lacto-bacillus, which produces a lot of the sour character you find in lambic, as well as all the sourness in Oude Bruin. Wanta prove it? Try a blended gueze side by side with an unblended gueze. The difference in the two is that the blended has young gueze added to what has been aged in barrels for 2-5 years. The unblended is just the aged stuff, which is why it is so much more sour.

I also would not be surprised to find that there is some brett in the Liefmanns barrels. You can't taste it as much because it is only in the aging stage, but it could be there, none-the-less.

[JorisP]

Well, since I've started in a schoolteachers' way... seems to be the day.
You are right in stating that there is a certain character common to some Oud bruin and lambics. However, when you talk oak-aging you're probably thinking of the Rodenbach-type oud bruins. The Oudenaardse Oud bruins, from which Liefmans is probably the ideosyncratic example, are simply lagered in horizontal coated ceramic vessels.
And as your explanation about blended and non-blended gueuze... Gueuze is ALWAYS blended. The very definition of gueuze is a bottled blending of differently aged lambics, the beer that spontaneously ferments on oak or chestnut barrels. What you're talking of, probably, is the difference between a pasteurised and a non-pasteurised gueuze. That is indeed enormous, and an eye-opener. Oh, and lambics are extremely seldom lagered for 4 years. 5 years is definitely asking for a drainpour. Your explanation, however, fits a Rodenbach-type beer like a glove (even if that aged blending beer usually isn't older than 3 years).
And lactobacillus, yes, pediococcus, no doubt, but Brett in Liefmans - or Rodenbach for that matter,... don't think so. Hasn't the character of it, anyway.
PS - Where I was a bit muddled is in my Liefmans beers explanation. The "Goudenband" is of course the aged dark beer, no fruit added. The "Kriek" is a mixture of a pale beer, refermented on horizontal fermenters with cherries (Danish for the largest part, last time I was told), and dark beer, not as much the Goudenband, but probably the one that makes the Odnar
Cheers, Joristhedullschoolfrik

[beerking]

Been too long since I have had Goudenband or Rodenbach to comment for sure on the Brett. I merely indicated it would not surprise me if there was a little in there. And, no, I have never detected it, but I've never looked for it either.

As for unblended lambic, I can vouch there is indeed such a thing. I had some at both a bar in Brugge, and at Cantillion itself in Brussels. Jean-Pierre was quite proud of it, and even more surprised that I, an American, would appreciate it.

[chazwicke]

The Rodenbach Grand Cru of old was among my top 5 beers for a long time. I still love the current Rodenbach but it is in no way as good as it was up until the early 90s.