Beer vs Wine in NYC

[hnrblbrbrn]

Did anyone read the AP report around 7/13 about wine at park concerts in NY but not allowing beer?

I've been ranting about how they slammed beer drinkers for a less than wholesome image, ignoring the WINO. They mentioned Bacchus as god of wine (and associated with orgies) and deny the existence of St. Arnold and Ninkasi who was before Bacchus.

I'm glad to have gotten that off my chest.

[beer editor]

Here's the story (http://www.realbeer.com/news/articles/news-001967.php).

Don't miss the last paragraph:

"He (Mayor Bloomberg) said inebriated people on the beach run a much greater risk of harming themselves, as opposed to those who drink in the more placid confines of the park."

[hopjack13]

Counters Roberts: "Bacchus is the god of wine, but there is no god of beer, unless you count Homer Simpson."

well ain't that about a bunch of bull s#@&.
the sad part about it is most probably think it's the truth cuz they do not know any better......
glad i don't live in n.y.
why are wine "enthusiast." considered sophisticated
and beer lovers drunks????
this opens up a whole new room for debate!
i feel your pain hnrblbrbrn

[fretlessman71]

One word: ADVERTISING.

How many wine commercials do you see where there are a group of guys screwing around in a bar while hot babes are checking them out on the dance floor? NONE. How often do we get to see beer commercials that portray their consumers as seasoned aficionados of brew with a subtle palate and respect for alcohol? NEVER. Why? Because there are so many americans that use beer - CRAP beer - as nothing more than a social lubricant, and Bud, Coors, and Miller have decided that there's a buck to be made off of those who prefer to be inebriated rather than elevated by their consumption of alcohol.

Mayor Bloomberg, I suppose, is not to be blamed entirely; he is simply a victim of the ad campaign. He seems to agree with what most people think about beer because that's all he sees. Chances are he's never had a beer in the last 10 years because he didn't want it to tarnish his "image." I wonder how is image would have been enhanced if someone would have spotted him holding a bottle of MD 20/20? Isn't that "wine" as well? (Well, sort of...?)

There is so much money funneled into the "beer as party drug" concept that it seems like there's no way to fight it. But the more that we focus on the fact that this is what is tarhishing OUR image (ever have people turn up their nose at your cask conditioned pint while they're enjoying their White Zin? That shouldn't even be considered WINE... it's Koolaid with alcohol!), the more we'll be upset with the current state of beer ads. Sure, everybody liked the Miller Lite commercial with the women wrestling in wet cement, but was it because of the brand of beer? NO. Everyone was checkin' out the hooters on those girlies, and forgetting that this was an ad for a very detestable product. Now, every time we see a bottle of Miller Lite, we think of the ad. That's what they want us to do so we'll be more inclined to purchasing their product. They don't care what it makes us look like when we actually DO.

I hate to let ads get the better of us, but if we're so concerned with what people think of us for drinking beer, we will have to change our image for ourselves... and "Big Beer" isn't going to help us out any.

[steveh]

Originally posted by hnrblbrbrn
hey mentioned Bacchus as god of wine (and associated with orgies) and deny the existence of St. Arnold and Ninkasi who was before Bacchus.

We don't have false idols (or a mayor), just a King:
http://www.gambrinus.com/company_motto.html

And Fret's right, it's all about the marketing. One more reason for revolution against the swill that gives beer a bad name!

"Rise up! All we have to lose is our cookies!"
Dr. Benjamin Franklin Pierce

S.

[threecb]

While I agree with some of the points that have been raised,
I'd like to weigh in on the debate...

I like wine. I Love beer.

But there is a difference between sharing a bottle of wine with
someone, whether it's in a park or on a beach, and having coolers
full of beer at an event. I don't think it's as elitist as the press is
making it out to be. A bottle of wine between two people is approx.
2 drinks each. A few coolers full of beer is what, 4, 6, 8(?) per person?

Remember, a glass of wine or a can/bottle of beer, they both pack the same punch.

I'm pretty sure that if I chose to bring a 750 ml bottle of Belgian ale or
4 bottles of something to an event like the concert in the park I wouldn't have been
branded an interloper and been asked to leave. It was the potential for harm that
was cited and it shouldn't have been turned into a class war by the NY Post.

[fretlessman71]

I still find it unreasonable that one type of alcohol should be banned while another permitted. A person will act the same way after 3 glasses of wine that they will after 3 beers. It's just like saying that single malt whiskey could be permitted but JD would not. (OK, I can see that one - I HATE Jack.) Alcohol is indeed alcohol, and no mistake or distinction ought to be made in that regard.

I agree that "coolers full of beer" at an event simply encourages quantity drinking, but I'm not sure that is what we're talking about here.

If bartenders served beer in such a way as to make the person buying the beer feel like they just made a great decision not to be taken lightly, who knows... they just might treat it with more respect, and garner more respect from others in return. Maybe THIS is where it needs to start.

[threecb]

when i first heard the report on the morning news
(i'm in NJ, getting NYC local news)

the reporter said (i'm paraphrasing, the number might've been 3):
..."the police confiscated X coolers full of beer"...

[fretlessman71]

Sorry... I'm stuck here in Nashville, and don't get the local news from New York. Thank you for setting me straight.

Now, a few pertinent questions: What if someone had brought a cooler full of wine, rather than just a bottle or two? Maybe a bottle or more per person? That would be aboue 4-6 glasses of wine each. Should that have been confiscated as well? WOULD that have been confiscated as well? How about if someone had brought a bomber bottle of beer? That has about as much liquid as a bottle of wine, and certainly less alcohol...

We seem to agree that people showing an intent to get drunk in public and cause problems for others ought to be headed off at the pass. (I would hope that ALL on this board would agree with that.) What I am questioning is the discretion of those in charge as to what warrants just that. I am so very used to hearing people say to me, "I prefer WINE," as if I'm supposed to be impressed by their taste and assured of their ability to hold their alcohol. Funny thing is invariably I'm NOT, and usually THEY CAN'T.

I would hope that somewhere out there is a mechanism to research this matter further and find out just why these actions were taken. Seems like the right choice was made, but possibly for the wrong reason.

fretlessman71 - resident teetotaler ;) (Really, folks, I'm a laid-back guy, but some things just stick in my craw...)

[hopjack13]

We don't have false idols (or a mayor), just a King: "Rise up! All we have to lose is our cookies!"
Amen brother steveh!!!! on with the crusade!!!!
wine sucks!!! BEER RULES!!!!!!!

[sallad]

one other point for those not in the nyc area:

mayor bloomberg is a billionaire (well maybe not billions, maybe *just* a couple hundred million.. not exactly sure), and he's already seen somewhat as an elitist who can't relate to the common people. comments like that only serve to propell that image and its the kind of thing the media loves to jump on.

[Fast_Eddy]

Here's what I've been saying to my more snooty wine drinking friends lately,"I prefer a drink with more history than the relatively new wine - since beer historically is about 4000 years older than wine it is certainly more refined and cultured." It's funny to listen to them try to retort that because it's true.

[threecb]

OK, OK...I'm not totally defending the actions taken,
I was just saying that not all the facts were being looked at.
In truth, we'll probably never know the full story.

Fast_Eddy, I like your comback...very cool to hit'em with the truth!

And sallad, you are absolutely correct. And, to some extent, the
comments that Bloomberg made surrounding this issue only helped
to inflame the middle class and increase the gap between classes.

fretlessman, it's totally cool that you question this. I wasn't trying to
be terse before with my response, I was at work and couldn't respond
in more detail (shhhhhh! ;)). I like your posts, you seem like a cool guy.
I wasn't trying to "set you straight". Like I said, I was just weighing in
with my op...

As for your additional questions, I think that if people were set up with
enough alcohol to cause a disruption (when consumed!) then they, too,
would've been ousted. But there's a lot of "what if's" there, so I couldn't say for certain. I definitely think they should get the boot, though.
I'm sorry I can't find more detail on this, everyone's carrying that vague AP story. I think it's quite possible that there were people drinking beer in the park, and possibly even some wine on the beach. My main point was that it was the press that lit the fire of class war. Probably since most people in a park listening to classical music would be drinking wine. Most people on a beach would choose beer. Me? I'll have another Victory HopDevil, please!

thanks for listenin'!
steve

[fretlessman71]

threecb, feel free to "set me straight" whenever you feel the need. No irritation was intended, and hopefully none was taken. My basic philosophy is always the same - let's get to the truth!

Cheers!

[Richard English]

Examine, too, the difference between the numbers of column inches devoted in the media to the appreciation of wine (essentially a very simple drink) and those devoted to the amazing complex and varied drinks that are beer.

Nothing wrong with wine, of course; I've enjoyed many bottles. It's just that beer is the superior drink by just about any measurable standard of comparison.