Why has the taste changed

[Stefan A]

I have a 1/6 keg of Victory Lager in my new Summit kegerator. The temp hovers from 37.5-38.5 and the co2 is set at about 11 or 12. I have had it tapped for only 1 week. I bought this beer because I tried a bottle of it and really liked it. Particularly that malty sweetness that lingered on my tongue. But I am finding that the draft does not have this flavor. Is there something wrong with my setup? Have my tastebuds gotten used to the beer? Something else?

On a related note, when I pour a beer, the foam takes up about half of the pint glass. I wait a few minutes for the head to go down, and then I can top it off with the appropriate head. It doesn't matter if it's the first pull of the day or the last, it seems the amount of foam is the same.

Thanks
Stefan

[fretlessman71]

I've often found that the same beer in bottles and on draft are not quite the same. I'm sure there are a few reasons for this. I've also found that I prefer my growlers to be about 1-2 days old instead of "just home from the brewery".

Most people crank up the CO2 to get their beer carbonated, and then back it off to have just enough to push the beer out - is this what you're doing? Might need to bring your PSI down a tad (you can skewer me if I've suddenly become Captain Obvious;) ).

[HogieWan]

Sometimes you need to crank the psi UP to minimize foaming. Tell us the specifics on your setup.

[Stefan A]

I am not sure which specifics you need. It's whatever came with the summit. http://www.beveragefactory.com/refrigerators/beer/sbc500bv.shtml

I am unfamilar with that co2 trick. Can you elaborate?

Stefan

[MeridianFC]

The biggest difference between draft beer and bottled beer, in the US anyways, is almost all draft beer unpasteurized but most bottled beer is pasteurized. I think this is why many find the taste of draft superior. The funny thing is with most Victory beers I find the malt really comes out in the draft version. I've not had the VL in a while so I might have to go back and do a taste test. One thought I had is, given the temp and pressure you're running, that the beer may be over carbonated or too cold both of which dimish the parts of the flavor profile (CO2 has a taste and cold numbs the tongue). I run my microbrews at 39-40F and 14psi.

The foam problem with your summit is related to the fact that the tower is not cooled. When the cold beer from the body of the fridge moves up to the warmer tower the CO2 breaks out of solution causing foaming. If you're running several beers it hopefully doesn't have time to get warm. You should pour off the foam, which is mostly CO2, and then pour. Depending on the unit count on losing a pint of foam each time the beer sits for a bit.

[Stefan A]

I guess thats why you see bartenders pulling the handle and letting the beer (foam) pour into the drain for a second before placing the glass underneath. I should have paid extra for the Stainless Steel drip pan and drain. It's not too late though, but I will have to drill into the fridge myself :eek:

Stefan

[brewmonkey]

Originally posted by Stefan A
I guess thats why you see bartenders pulling the handle and letting the beer (foam) pour into the drain for a second before placing the glass underneath. I should have paid extra for the Stainless Steel drip pan and drain. It's not too late though, but I will have to drill into the fridge myself

Stefan

That's bartenders wasting beer actually. Why would you need to spend the extra for the SS drip tray? It does not increase the pour rate, the flavor or control foaming so it is really just extra money "down the drain"! :D I kill me!!!

If a system is dialed in properly there is no need to "pour off" foam and each time you serve it should be perfect. While the temp at the keg is hoovering in the 37-38 range for you what is it at the faucet head? Is the line and faucet cleaned on a regular basis? That means weekly for low use lines and bi-weekly for high use lines.

In combination with the temp is the pressure as has been mentioned. It is a symbiotic relationship and each must be perfect to work together.

My guess is that your temp is too high at the faucet and it is actually a bit to high in the cooler as well. I would try to get it down to 34-35 so that it hits the faucet at 37-38 and no higher. Once you start getting to the 40F mark you have problems and it is easier to let your beer come to temp in the glass then it is to try and dial in a system for warmer temps IMHO.

As for the different taste, I wish I could tell you more but there are a ton of opinions on the subject. I know my bottled beers perhaps tasted different but that would be because all my bottled beers were bottle conditioned compared to my kegged beer which was carbonated by a stone.


For those brewers who do use pasteurizers, they generally run both their bottles and kegs through. The reason is that they ship their kegs just as far as they ship those bottles, sometimes farther and kegged beer is treated just as bad if not worse then bottled beer when it comes to storage. However very few craft brewers are pasteurizing and generally when they are they are at the Regional Specialty level. Even then though not all are.

Then there are instances where even after pasteurization brewers re-pitch the bottles to bottle condition the beer. New Glarus practices this method.

[Stefan A]

The reason why I said I need to put a drain in was that if I was going to pour off the beginning of each pour, it would be nice for the foam to go somewhere. Like down a drain.

Anyway, now I am becoming more confused. I am getting different answers and I don't know what to do. Based on previous posts, I have actually been raising my tempurature to about 40 and increasing the co2 - like someone suggested. Now you are saying to lower the tempurature drastically so that the tempurature at the tap will be colder (although not as cold as inside the fridge.) Makes sense, and if the above suggestions don't help, I will try yours.

Although I did read in "Beer for Dummies" (recommended on this forum) that beer should not be kept so cold. I think it said 40-42. So with that info, I have read, all from reliable sources, that beer should be kept anywhere from 34-42 degrees. I guess you can understand my confusion.

Stefan

[Sudsy]

Stephen

I am by no means an expert but what I do for the first foam is use another container to pour until the beer is out of the warmer line an then pour a glass usally no foam. When your ready for your next beer simply pour the container into your glass (no waste) and do the process again.

[brewmonkey]

Originally posted by Stefan A
The reason why I said I need to put a drain in was that if I was going to pour off the beginning of each pour, it would be nice for the foam to go somewhere. Like down a drain.

Anyway, now I am becoming more confused. I am getting different answers and I don't know what to do. Based on previous posts, I have actually been raising my tempurature to about 40 and increasing the co2 - like someone suggested. Now you are saying to lower the tempurature drastically so that the tempurature at the tap will be colder (although not as cold as inside the fridge.) Makes sense, and if the above suggestions don't help, I will try yours.

Although I did read in "Beer for Dummies" (recommended on this forum) that beer should not be kept so cold. I think it said 40-42. So with that info, I have read, all from reliable sources, that beer should be kept anywhere from 34-42 degrees. I guess you can understand my confusion.

Stefan

The warmer the beer the easier it will degas. Remember that when you are carbonating your beer you want it colder so that the CO2 will go into and then stay in solution. When the beer starts to warm it will also start to lose it's ability to hold that CO2 in solution and it has to go somwhere. That means when your beer hits the warmer tap and degasses you get foam. Beer starts to foam at around 40F and with your beer in the keg being at almost 39F I would say when it hits the faucet it is a bit warmer then that which is causing the foaming.

What is the length of your line and the inner diameter of your serving line?

[Stefan A]

Since I can't find that info on various websites about the summit, I have e-mailed the company.

Stefan

[Stefan A]

I am told that the length is 30 inches and the inside diameter is 1/2 inch.

Stefan

[brewmonkey]

1/2" :eek:


Check out this thread (http://www.realbeer.com/discussions/showthread.php?s=&threadid=4361&highlight=restriction) for some information as well as a few links on restriction.

[Stefan A]

According to the first link you provided in the thread you mention, my co2 pressure should be set at less than 1. When I untap my current keg this wednesday, I will measure the ID of the tube myself and see if it is really 1/2". Maybe they misunderstood me in my e-mail.

So I guess your saying I should have a narrower beer line? Like 3/16"? The lift is probably only 1.5 ft and it's a 2.5 foot line.

Stefan

[brewmonkey]

Originally posted by Stefan A
According to the first link you provided in the thread you mention, my co2 pressure should be set at less than 1. When I untap my current keg this wednesday, I will measure the ID of the tube myself and see if it is really 1/2". Maybe they misunderstood me in my e-mail.

So I guess your saying I should have a narrower beer line? Like 3/16"? The lift is probably only 1.5 ft and it's a 2.5 foot line.

Stefan

I only provided one link in the thread.

Yes, you need to go to a narrower ID IMHO but 3/16" is probably to small. I would shoot for 5/16" myself as I have had no problem with it on 2' runs or 200' runs.

[Big Cat]

One thing that I see in your post is that you liked the malty sweet of this beer. One thing that will cut down the sweet flavor of beer is overcarbination. You said that your psi was at 12; that is a little high. What might of happend is you overcarbinated the keg.

If you liked it when you first bought it and then the tast changed over a week then overcarbonation is most likely. I have done this on may ocations. Try lowering your pressure to 1-2-or off and, if you can still pore, wate tell the tast gets back to what you like. Then tern up the pressure to around 6-8 just enuf to pore the beer. If you start getting flat beer then you can tern up the pressure and shake the keg a little to re-carbonate (just don't finnish the keg after shaking.) You will fined the psi that works for you and on new kegs will not have the same problem.

Hope that helps