1/4" ID connection?

[Day Walker]

Please excuse my ignorance on the subject, but i have a question about the size of my beer line.
I've built a bar in my basement and want to incorporate my chest freezer kegerator into it. Unfortunately, I've not been able to make it work because of the flip top on the freezer. So, plan b is to put the kegerator in an adjacent storage room and run the beer line through the wall. The total length of the run will be about 12 feet outside the kegerator. I'm going to try just insulating the line first and see what kind of results I get. If that doesn't work I'm going try installing a forced air system.
My question is: I've read that for runs between 10' and 25' one should use 1/4" ID line. My current setup has 5' of 3/16" ID line running from the keg to the tower mounted on top of the freezer. Aside from the new line, what else will I need to purchase in order to get everything connected correctly?
Thanks in advance for any help!

[HogieWan]

You will probably need a wider line as that long of a run will cause too much restiction.

The line will no doubt need to be cooled or you will get all foam pours. If the beer in the line warms, the CO2 will come out of solution and cause foaming.

[Day Walker]

Originally posted by HogieWan
You will probably need a wider line as that long of a run will cause too much restiction.

The line will no doubt need to be cooled or you will get all foam pours. If the beer in the line warms, the CO2 will come out of solution and cause foaming.

Thanks for the reply. Do you mean wider than 1/4"?

[HogieWan]

no - just wider than 3/16

I think 3/16 is the size used for 5 foot lines. There's a chart on a thread here. I can't find it, hopefully someone else will chime in.

[danno]

I wouldn't go any wider than 1/4".

I'm thinking your shanks should fit 1/4" line, so that should be about it. when you mount your fan inside your chest freezer, make sure you mount it as far down as possible. good luck!

[Day Walker]

Originally posted by HogieWan
no - just wider than 3/16

I think 3/16 is the size used for 5 foot lines. There's a chart on a thread here. I can't find it, hopefully someone else will chime in.

OK, cool. So will I need anything else to incorporate the wider hose into my current setup?

[Day Walker]

Originally posted by danno
I wouldn't go any wider than 1/4".

I'm thinking your shanks should fit 1/4" line, so that should be about it. when you mount your fan inside your chest freezer, make sure you mount it as far down as possible. good luck!

Great, thanks!

[Day Walker]

Next question... what are the components to a blower assembly? Now that I've done some more research, I'm doubting just insulating the line will be sufficient.
Also, do you think that a my chest freezer would be able to handle a 60cfm blower with the 12 ft. distance?

[HogieWan]

from inside to outside:

beer line > pvc pipe > slightly larger pvc > insulation


Blow cold air trough the smallest pipe around the beer line. Have the air return through the outside line.

It has been described in better detail elsewhere on the forums. I'll see what I can dig up.

[brian92]

Day,

Running a remote system is a challenge, but certainly doable. Just be prepared for some speed bumps. I have a setup similar to what you are trying to do (mine is 11 feet and the freezer is in the garage).

Keeping the line chilled for 12 feet is a must. To do this, you will need to go with air chilled or liquid chilled. Air chilled was easier for me since glycol chilled is expensive or a lot of work to create on your own.

Anyway, I spent a lot of time getting my system working just right. Here is what I did:

The blower power is dependent on the length of the run and the # of 90 degree turns. I had 2 90 degree turns and 11 feet of run. I tried a 60cfm blower and that didn't quite cut it since the temperature drop between the freezer and the facuet was too much. So, I moved up to the next level, 140. You can get them online from indoor plant stores for much cheaper than you would find them at beer dispensing places (micromatic prices are way too high). Here is one place to get it: http://www.specialty-lights.com/specialty-lights/736005.html

If you have a 60cfm blower, try that first since the freezer will have to work harder to keep the temp down with the 140 blower.

Next, I ran the beer line inside tubing that's connected to the blower. That tubing should be no smaller than 1 1/2 " in diameter to allow for proper air flow. I ended up using 1 1/2" tubing for the vacuum systems on an outdoor pool.

Next, I needed to make sure the air pumped to the tower could return back to the freezer or I would waste too much energy. To do that, I ran the tubing from above (1 1/2") inside a 3" pvc corregated tubing. This way, the air flows to the faucet through the 1 1/2" tubing and back to the freezer through the 3" tube.

Finally, here are some line restriction numbers for you to help balance your system. At a flow rate of 128oz/min, 3/16" tubing has a restriction of 2.19 lbs/foot. 1/4" tubing has a restriction of around .5 lbs/foot (it depends slightly if you are using vinyl tubing or barrier tubing). My recommendation would be to run about 14 feet of 1/4" line and 2 feet of 3/16" line. The 3/16" line would connect to your faucet and would add some restriction at the end of the run.

Also, your system has to be air tight.

Feel free to ask any questions.

[Day Walker]

Thanks a lot for the info, brian. Sound's like you're currently doing exactly what I'm trying to do. A couple of questions...

1) "My recommendation would be to run about 14 feet of 1/4" line and 2 feet of 3/16" line. The 3/16" line would connect to your faucet and would add some restriction at the end of the run."

How would I go about connecting the two different sized lines (as you can see, my knowledge is very limited)? Would I only want the 3/16" at the faucet end?

2) The tower I currently have has foam insulation around the inside of it. Is that enough to keep the setup air tight at that end? How would I go about connecting the PVC on both ends to insure an airtight system?

Thanks again for all the information, so far it's been a HUGE help!

[brian92]

To connect the 1/4" line and the 3/16" line, you will need a splicer. Here is one from micromatic: http://www.micromatic.com/product.php?pid=SSS-BE

One thing I didn't think about with your line lengths earlier: do you have a rise in elevation from your freezer to the faucet? If so, that will add restriction. I believe it's around 1 lbs per foot. Your best bet is probably to go with more length than you need (14 feet of 1/4" and 2 feet of 3/16" should be plenty) and then trimming line back if your pour rate is too slow.

Your faucet should work just fine. Mine had the foam insulation in there as well. The part you need to make sure is airtight, is the 3" pvc tubing from the faucet to the freezer. Connecting that tubing to the faucet and the freezer takes some improvisation.

[Day Walker]

Originally posted by brian92

One thing I didn't think about with your line lengths earlier: do you have a rise in elevation from your freezer to the faucet? If so, that will add restriction. I believe it's around 1 lbs per foot. Your best bet is probably to go with more length than you need (14 feet of 1/4" and 2 feet of 3/16" should be plenty) and then trimming line back if your pour rate is too slow.


There's a slight rise in elevation.... maybe about four inches, so I don't think that'll be too much of a problem.
Another stupid question: I noticed that the blower needs to be plugged in. How did you run the cord outside of your kegerator while still maintaining an airtight system? Also, with the 140 cfm blower you linked to, what are the adapters that i need in order to connect the 1 1/2" tubing?

Thanks again!

[HogieWan]

Originally posted by Day Walker
How did you run the cord outside of your kegerator while still maintaining an airtight system?

Most people with custom kegerators build wooden collars for them. It's just a wooden square that sits between the lid and the body. this way, you can put whatever holes you need through the collar instead of through the freezer (which is dangerous). It's a lot easier to build a new collar if you revamp the whole thing later than to patch holes in the freezer or lid.

Here's a link (http://www.west-point.org/users/usma1986/42894/kegerator.htm) to BrewDog's beautiful setup (which I plan to copy asap).

[Thirdrail]

Originally posted by brian92

Keeping the line chilled for 12 feet is a must. To do this, you will need to go with air chilled or liquid chilled. Air chilled was easier for me since glycol chilled is expensive or a lot of work to create on your own.

i've been thinkin about a chiller system useing water instead of glycol for cooling the lines in a tower....it would be rather cheap and easy to fabricate....should be adaptable to a more remote type of system