The Best ESB

[bhoshour]

I'm looking for opinions on the best Extra Special Bitter out there. I certainly haven't tried all of them and I'm curious as to which ones to look out for. I am drinking a Rogue's Younger's Special Bitter as I type this, which I am thoroughly enjoying. I have tried Redhook's ESB and Young's (London) ESB. I probably enjoyed Young's the best, though at $9 and up a six-pack it is a little pricey. What do you all think? One last note, in-so-much as ESB's attract hopheads, I would recommend Tupper's Hop Pocket Ale, which I think has the distinction of being the most hopped beer in the world - a tasty treat, though.

[Richard English]

I suggest Fuller's ESB. Like all Fuller's beers it is particularly well-balanced.

It is best on draught although it is available in bottle, both here and in the USA. Unfortunately it is not bottle-conditioned and I personally prefer their 1845.

[chazwicke]

Tupper's Hop Pocket beers are delectable but are not the most highly hopped beers in the world. Certainly not the Pilsener. Both beers are produced by The Old Dominion Brewing Company in Ashburn, Virginia and were formulated by Bob And Ellie Tupper Personally. Bob I think might liken his beer to an "Old Ale". He called it that in a discussion of his beer that we once had. I recommend Hop Pocket highly. I know Bert Grant was a huge fan of hops and had some reaching up there on the IBU scale. And I think Stone makes some of the most highly hopped beers that I have tasted in a long time. Does anyone know what beer does hold the record for being the most hopped brew?

[threecb]

I'm not positive, but I'd have to think that DogFish Head's 90 and 120 minute IPA's are way up there, and certainly more than Tuppers. I actually have the remnants of a sixer of THP in the fridge from last weekend, and while it doesn't make me pucker from the hops, it sure is a fine ale. And, I think it refers to itself as an Old Ale on the label...

Also I know there's some kind of HopHead Beer competition, perhaps held in the midwest, that tries to crown the hoppiest beer. Maybe Three Floyd's Alpha King won last year? Anyone out that way know what i'm talkin' about? (cuz I sure don't! ;-])

steve

[threecb]

Sorry I digressed on the Hoppy Beer thing.

To weigh in on the ESB, I'd have to agree that Fuller's is an excellent example.
As for a local small-batch version (super-local, in NJ only, I think) Climax
Brewing in Roselle Park, NJ makes a fine example of the style. They only sell
kegs (mostly to local establishments) and prefilled growlers that you can find
in the liquor stores around North and Central Jersey.

[sallad]

is actually labeled as an ESA (extra special ale) by yards brewing in philadelphia. this is a decent beer from the bottle, but to truely experience it you must find one of the several places in philly that has it on the cask-conditioned hand pump!! i usually stop at fergies pub (13th & sansom) for this one. quite nicely bitter, very clean bitterness. very fruity flavor (moreso from the handpump than the bottle), and not overwhelming on hop aroma. ABV 6%. if i had to pick just one beer to be my favorite beer, this would be it! its the kind of beer you could (and i have) drink for dinner.

[threecb]

Ah, the Yard's ESA! That one was in my mind, too. Have never experienced it in cask, but i could imagine! Next time i'm in Philly...

[fretlessman71]

Can someone tell me the difference in recipe between an ESB and an IPA? They're certainly similar, but I think that the IPA has more finishing hops.... I know that IPAs were developed to withstand the long journey from England to India by clipper. Who can tell me?

[hopjack13]

there are a lot of brewerys that make a good e.s.b. but if i had to buy one off the shelf id have to agree with richard and threecb and go with the fullers.

[newportstorm]

Fuller's is certainly a good choice and one of my favorite beers - kind of set the ESB standard. Pretty mild with more malt fruitiness than bittering hops.

A couple I've had recently that are more on the hoppy side of the fence are McNeill's ESB and Rogue Brutal Bitter. The Redhook ESB is a decent introductory beer for newcomers to the world of better beer but not stellar, imo.

Cheers!

[Richard English]

The distinction has been blurred in recent years and this is largely the fault of British brewers, many of whom have been calling their normal bitters "IPAs" for years.

In fact, the US style as exemplified by Goose Island is probably far closer to the genuine IPA than anything brewed now in England. The critical thing in an IPA (apart from the strength) is the very high level of hops.

ESBs, on the other hand, are less heavily hopped but are still strong. So, if you like extreme bitterness, go for an IPA; if maltiness and full bodied roundness is your preference, choose an ESB.

Incidentally, if you visit England and drink draught Fuller's ESB, beware. It's often called GBH (grevious bodily harm) over here as it sneeks up on you quietly and then suddenly knocks you out! It drinks very easily for its strength and it's just too simple to overindulge without realising it - until you try to stand up!

[newportstorm]

Try this link for lots of ESBs:

http://www.beeradvocate.com/beer/style/66/

With over 200 ESBs in the database, there's gotta be some gems you can find close to home. Good luck.

Cheers!

[threecb]

Originally posted by fretlessman71
Can someone tell me the difference in recipe between an ESB and an IPA?

While I'll defer to Richard for the subtleties of the style distinctions, I recently came across this "primer" for beer styles. It's pretty good, IMHO:

Beer Styles (http://www.ratebeer.com/BeerStyles.asp)

[Richard English]

It seems very comprehensive, although I initially found what I thought were some surprising omissions in the "style" indeces.

Young's for example, did not seem to be in the catergories that I would have expected them to be in, although a search by brewer name found them.

However, once I realised that it was only the "top" five that were listed I then understood that there was obviously a degree of subjectivity in the selection. Maybe a link from each style box, in which the top five appeared, to "other beers of this style" might have helped.

Having said which, the site does a very good job in a complex field - one that I wouldn't have cared to tackle!

[fretlessman71]

Thanks folks! This helps out a lot. I'm a fan of Redhook's ESB and IPA offerings, and could tell that the IPA was indeed hoppier, so I'm glad to find out that it was indicative of the style.

Redhook seems to be much like Sierra Nevada in the respect that there seems to be a running "flavor theme" to most of their brews. Works for me, for BOTH breweries....

Richard, I recently came across a bottle of Samuel Smith's India Ale in a 12 oz. bottle (and BROWN, no less!) which I have yet to try. Seems to me I heard that Samuel Smith was the first brewery to put out an IPA. Is this true, and what is your opinion on the brew if you've indeed had it? (As if there's a brew in England you HAVEN'T tried... ;) )

[Richard English]

12 ounces is about three-quarters of a US pint.

Sam's is a good Yorkshire drink and I have had many a pint of their draught beer.

Sadly their bottled beers are not bottle-conditioned and I have not tried them. I do hear that they are good, however, so I am sure you won't be disappointed!

[Dr J]

I concur with those opting for Fuller's and Young's on draft. Having tried both at their respective breweries, I found them superior to the bottled version sold here in the U.S.

[fretlessman71]

Originally posted by Richard English
12 ounces is about three-quarters of a US pint.

Heeheehee... actually, it's precisely three-quarters of a US pint.

Now, for those of us stuck here in the US, how much is an English pint (or an imperial pint, if they're different)? And is there such thing as an imperial quart?

[Richard English]

12 fluid ounces (Imperial) is exactly 0.7206 of a US liquid pint - so it's actually slightly less than three-quarters. It would be, of course, exactly three-quarters of a US pint if it were US fluid ounces. However, being a British brewery it would not have been.

There is no such thing as an English pint; in England we use Imperial pints. One Imperial pint is exactly 1.201 US liquid pints (which is why a 500 ml bottle - 1.057 US pints but only 0.8799 Imperial) does not properly fill a British pint glass but spills over the top of a US one.

An Imperial quart is two Imperial pints so the relationships are the same but doubled.

[fretlessman71]

Yep... two countries divided by a common language. Delightful! Thanks Richard! :D

[bhoshour]

Ahhh, see what happens when we shun the metric system. We're losing out on beer in our glasses! I can not figure out how to get a picture to the side of my posts. Can someone help me out??

[fretlessman71]

It's called an "avatar". If you go to your personal settings when you get started on your account, you should be able to find it. They can only be 70x70 pixels, so you may have to resize your pic. Hope that helps!

[steveh]

Originally posted by Richard English
In fact, the US style as exemplified by Goose Island is probably far closer to the genuine IPA than anything brewed now in England. The critical thing in an IPA (apart from the strength) is the very high level of hops.

Richard, aside from being proud and happy to hear you've been enjoying a brew from my home-town area, I thought I'd let you know that Goose Island is cask-conditioning portions of their Honker's Ale and making it available to pubs in the area equiped with beer engines (and responsible proprietors, I hope). I hear that one of my locals has it on and need to give it a try. I hope to report back soon.

S.

[Richard English]

I've drunk Honkers in bottle over here (it is bottle-conditioned, of course) but prefer the IPA. I suspect that Honkers might be the better of the two on draught.

It will truly be a red-letter day when genuine draught beer (no kegs, no gas, no flash-coolers) becomes readily available in the USA. Of course, there is still much to be done - not least in training pub staff in the almost forgotten art of cellar management!

Maybe they should all come to the GBBF and see how we look after 400 draught beers simultaneously!

[chazwicke]

Richard, there are still Brakspar beers on the shelves here. I purchased a bottle of Bitter yesterday. What do you think of Greene King brewery and products? We used to get Abbot Ale here in the 2.22 litre cans. It has also been imported in plastic Litre bottles and regular brown bottles as well as widget cans. I enjoyed a tour of the Brewery back in 1989. And I remember a small pub in Bury St. Edmunds. It was called the Nutshell. A tiny little place. The publican took us into the cellar and showed us some of the tunnels dug under the town by the monks. I know they have purchased some other breweries but I still enjoy their beer. Another Publican took us into his cellar in York. Both pubs were rather proud of thier beer cellars and took the art of cellaring beer seriously. I was thankful to see them. I guess back in the 80s and early 90s there were not that many American tourists that interested in real ale.

[Richard English]

Brakspear's beers are still brewed but not by the original company. They are not so good as they were and I suspect that they will soon disappear.

Greene King beers are very good, especially the Abbot.

A visit to the cellar of a decent pub should be a "must" for any US visitor to England!

[steveh]

Richard, I hear that Great Britain is in the clutches of another hot Summer season - could this prove more damaging to the Real Ale campaign once again?

I remember hearing that the "light lagers" started becoming more popular during the heat wave a few years ago, pushing the real ales (suffering from high cellar temperatures) out of favor with pub-goers.

S.

[hopjack13]

origanally posted by threecb
I recently came across this "primer" for beer styles. It's pretty good
sorry to throw everyone off the subject here but this site classifys fred (hod) as a barleywine, which i believed it to be for some reason, and on the bottle it says something like "special golden ale"?? i thought anything over 9%abv was considered a barleywine? is this correct?

[Richard English]

Indeed, it has been very warm here recently - up to 90 Fahrenheit - although today it's raining and a little cooler.

There is no doubt that lagers and other light beers are more popular in the summer and the huge increase in lager's popularity a few years ago was, in part, due to its temperature.

Lagers are typically served at slightly lower temperatures than ales and chemical-fizz lagers even cooler. Tne way that this was achieved was to install flash coolers in the beer lines which meant that the drink would always be cool (or even frigid).

Real Ale should not be served warm, but not all pub have good cellars (or even cellars of any kind). Cask beers kept on stillage in the bar or in a poor cellar may get too warm and thus many will turn to the chilled lagers. Of course, if the cellarman is experienced then the beer in even a poor cellar can be kept cool by the used of cooling devices such as wet towels or cooling jackets (the system typically adopted in beer festivals).

In recent years the importance of correct dispense temperature has been realised and the technology of cooling systems has improved. Thus many pubs now have cellers that are artificially cooled and, providing there is a reasonable throughput, the cask ales will be cool. Alternatively it's possible to put a flash cooler in the beer line, just as with chemical-fizz beers. This solution is, though, frowned on by the purists not least because the cellar may be at the wrong temperature for the proper maturation of the beer.

There is now no excuse for warm beer and anyone receiving one has every right to return it as unsuitable. If the barman won't change it then there are plenty of other pubs around...!

[newportstorm]

Originally posted by hopjack13
origanally posted by threecb

sorry to throw everyone off the subject here but this site classifys fred (hod) as a barleywine, which i believed it to be for some reason, and on the bottle it says something like "special golden ale"?? i thought anything over 9%abv was considered a barleywine? is this correct?


Beer styles and their definitions are very vague in some instances. Some beers are hard to classify. But I've never heard of every beer >9% abv being classified a barleywine. Many Tripels, Imperial Stouts, Big IPAs, etc. are over that threshold and I don't consider them barleywines, per se.

Sometimes, we get too caught up in beer styles. I try to focus on the taste and whether I'd like another.

Cheers!

[chazwicke]

I like a beer to match the promoted style when I am ordering because much of what impacts my decision is variable. Mood, time of year , food, ect. I would hate to order an pils and get an IPA. But that said, I agree with Newport, taste is the key.

[hopjack13]

yeah ...i don't know where i got that from?????
i had a speedway stout that was about 12abv and in no way could it ever be confused with a barleywine.
i think your right i'll just go by taste ;)
thnx