Hooray for sanity!

[Richard English]

Today the English parliament finally followed the lead of the Scots and swept away the last vestiges of the Defence of the Realm Act of 1917. Now. for the first time for nearly a hundred years, pubs in England will be able to open when they and their customers want, and not when the nanny state decrees!

Now visitors to London won't find that pubs in one of the world's most important cities all close at 2300 and that at 2330 the roads, buses, trains and pavements are all jammed with drinkers scurrying to get home as there's nowhere left open to drink.

My only complaint is that I've been boozing for nearly half a century and am only now able to take advantage of this new freedom!

And, by the way, that this eminently sensible revision to the law has come about is due largely to CAMRA and its lobbying team.

Now there's even more reason for beer drinkers to visit the UK!

[steveh]

True history in front of our eyes! Cheers Richard,

But you know, I sort of liked that the pubs would kick me out at a reasonable hour, it certainly kept me from abusing my privilege! ;)

S.

[Theakston]

Only one problem. I actually think that the olds laws in a roundabout way contributed to the atmousphere in English pubs. If you were a regular at a local pub (as I was for many years) you always knew that your buddies would be there at 10PM for a few. Once you were known to the landlord you would often be invited to stay for a few "afters" when the door was locked and the lights dimmed.

Now it could become like over here where it is rare to find a pub with a consistent set of locals that become friends over the course of a few months boozing. In a way that is sad.

It may actually hurt the pubs too. I found when they got rid of the lunch time closing at 3PM, that I didn't go out for a Saturday mid-day pint anywhere near as often. Mainly because there wasn't the urgency of "It's now or never" to get off to the pub before it closed.

Having said that, I am politically motivated to support the removal of these archaic laws. Just beware that it may result in the further decline of the traditional British pub scene as they descend further into the Wetherspoons McPubs and phoney theme pubs to compete. I hope not.

[fretlessman71]

I've never been to an English pub, nor have I ever had "drinking buddies" at a bar. I've always enjoyed my alcohol at my house or friends' houses for the most part. So maybe I have no idea about what I'm about to comment on, but here goes...

Can I sound like an old, stick-in-the-mud, party-pooper, teetotaling, puritanical butthead for a single solitary post? Thanks...

Whenever I hear about someone (and Theakston, you're certainly not the first, and I'm not making accusations) regarding the "urgency" to get a beer, I begin to get worried. I don't like the idea that beer is such an important part of our lives that we can scarcely live without it. True, I can't keep my paws off the keyboard when I'm on this site, and I love talking about beer almost as much as I love to drink it, but I would hope that none of us really, truly, have a "need" for beer in the classic definition of the word. To be honest, I agree with my brother, who once said that if he ever felt that he really NEEDED a beer, he'd drive right by the liquor store on his way to rehab.

I know that the word "urgency" is certainly not used in such an absolutist fashion in this case, but I feel that the point must be made clear: Beer drinking is an enjoyable event surpassed by few others, but it is far from a necessity. Few would disagree with me, I think, when I say that as soon as it becomes a necessity, it becomes a ball and chain that you will despise, and I guarantee that this will take all of the fun out of drinking beer as you know it.

And yes, I've had dealings with AA friends (as I'm sure you've figured out by now)... I mention this because it's certainly fair for you to know where I sit as well as where I stand on this issue. I simply want to point out to anyone out there who sees the word "urgency" and agrees with it wholeheartedly that this might be the time to take a step back and think about that concept for a minute.

There is certainly something to be said for lifting a few pints with good friends, and I have no problem with that whatsoever.

Theakston, I'm 100% certain you didn't mean it this way, and I am in no way trying to attack you or make accusations as to your motives for drinking... I hope you understand. Please don't take this rant personally.

[Richard English]

Funnily enough, old Bernie from the Bull in Reigate said much the same thing when the change in hours was first mooted.

"It'll be the death of the English Pub" were his very words. In spite of the fact that the Bull has been a pub for over 300 years (and done very well, thank you) Bernie really believed that the repeal af a law, introduced only in his own lifetime, would see the end of such an institution.

Well, poor old Bernie never got to see it as he's been dead for many years. But I went into the Bull only yesterday. It looks just the same as it ever did; the beer is actually now better; the place was as full as it used to be under Bernie's stewardship. The only difference was that it was 1500 before I left - not 1440 which was the time he would previously have chucked me out.

I accept that the traditional English pub atmosphere does not happen in many other countries but I suggest that this is due to factors other than those of permitted hours. There are still many unenlightened countries that have stringent licensing hours (it may have changed but when I first visited New York I found I couldn't get a drink before 1200 - even in my hotel).

The English pub has been an institution that has survived many more upsets than that of "permitted hours" and will, I hope continue to survive.

My own honest opinion of the major threat to English pubs is far nearer to your present home. It is the behaviour of the likes of A-B who want to turn the world's drinking establishments into fizz-counters that will, inevitably, be filled with consumers drinking rubbish beer from the bottle. And who would want to spend much time in such an establishment?

I suspect that, since the Real Beer revival in the USA, there has been a growth in real pubs as well; I truly believe that the two things go hand in hand.

Sorry if I'm a little loquacious but this lunchtime, as it's presently such lovely weather, I drove the Shadow to the Dolphin at Betchworth and had a couple of pints of Young's Waggledance. As we sat outside, a man turned up in a 1920s Bullnose Morris and another man turned up in a 1960s Morgan. At such times who would want to be anywhere but England and in an English pub?

And, I will mention (as I have just seen the further posting on this subject) - if you have never enjoyed a pint of draught English Real Ale ina good English pub, then you will (genuinely) have difficulty in understanding the attraction. Drinking beer at home, even such excellent beers as 1845 or Goose Island, is just not the same thing at all.

[sallad]

well spoken, richard! i wish i could've stopped in to a true english pub for a true english pint at lunch, but, alas, working in the States makes that a tad difficult. someday, hopefully soon!

[fretlessman71]

Richard, I genuinely look forward to doing just that someday... and who knows; maybe I'll see you there and say hello!

[Theakston]

Fretlessman: (BTW I assume this is the bass guitar your are referring to? a Jaco fan perhaps)

No need to call the AA on me just yet. The point I was making was that while the liberalization of licensing laws would lead one to assume that more hours = more opportunity for drinking therefore more drunkenness (and this argument was used by those opposed to extending hours) in fact the opposite turned out to be the case. Where I was previously forced to make a decision to go to the pub before a certain "cut off" time after which this option (to go for a pint) would be denied, once this deadline was removed, I found that I actually chose to go out much less. For someone with a more urgent need this would not really be the case, plus they could always drink at home.

Richard:

Although you may think that the beer revival in the USA would lead to a better pub scene. In a lot of ways it has not. In fact some of the pubs with the best atmousphere tend to be the ones with a somewhat limited beer selection. This could be because good beer has something of a yuppie reputation and does not have the tradition that it has in the UK. Some of the best bars tend to be more "blue collar" and these folks tend to view microbrews with the same distain that working class English pub-goers would have for imported lagers.

I hope that in time it will come around. I have found a couple of good places to hang out and meet friends but the culture over here is that you take your group of friends to the bar (or arrange to meet up) rather than drop in and see who is around on the off chance. A large part of that may be because I live in a large city with a fairly transient, mobile workforce.

Glad you are having good weather again. Oh to be in England now that Summer's here.

PS they don't really make a beer called Waggledance do they?
Surely you made this up!

[Richard English]

They certainly do. It's a highish gravity (5%) light bitter brewed by Young's. It is named after the "dance" that honey bees do on the alighting board of their hive when they find a good source of nectar. Waggledance has a small amount of honey in its wort and this gives a slight floweryness to the finished beer.

It is available in the UK in bottle (sadly not bottle-conditioned) and I assume that it can therefore be ordered in the USA from the usual Young's importers.

I drink it in the summer because it's light (in colour, not flavour or strength) and Youngs have in the past tended to provide it in the summer to cater for the tastes of such as I. In the winter Young's tend to put on their Winter Warmer (an Old Ale) instead of Waggledance.

[denver brewhoo]

Had an unexpected opportunity for a short trip to London, 6/28/03 to 7/5/03 (or, in english, 28/6/03 to 5/7/03...) and got shut out on the last 2 nights, once after a tube ride back to our home base after the theater and once after a tube ride back to the flat from a late dinner. Both times hit the Cooper's Arms in Chelsea at about 10:01...and as a result missed out on the aforementioned Waggledance, which I had postponed at earlier opportunities in favor of old favorites thinking, there's plenty of time. Guess I'll just have to come back again...

[steveh]

I understand your concerns completely as I, too, have friends and know people who can not handle their drink, or choose to abuse the privilege.

Enjoying a pub atmosphere or social party or picnic with friends are true highlights in life, and not to be abused. I believe the majority of us at this forum respect our beer to the point of high responsibility.

We never seem to brag on about the 12 packs we've consumed in a sitting, or the black-outs we experienced that were just too cool. We drink our beer for the love of it, not the buzz of it.

I can make it through 12 hour work days without the "need" you speak of, many can't. Getting home at night to relax with a beer and cook dinner, or a nice dinner and a pint with friends is more satisfying than if I "needed" to head out for a six-pack lunch.

Here's to enjoyment - not addiction.

S.

[chazwicke]

There is nothing like enjoying a fine hand pulled pint in a proper English pub. Sadly, we really have nothing quite like it in the States. Yes, there is the neighborhood tavern in some areas but they usually do not have the pleasant atmosphere and quality beer. More often they are smokey dives with a national brand or two available and sometimes there may not be a tap. Only bottles. I live in Northern Virginia. A suburb or Washington DC and our laws mandate that an establishment must make a large percent of its profits from food. That is why we have more restraunts than bars. And, unfortunately, a lot of our restraunts are chains or franchises. So there is little of that real comfortable feel that an old pub has. Usually there is some manufactured or fake theme that is foisted upon us by these establishments. Fortunately, There are a few real places still out there. And being a long time patron of the Brickskeller I can at least say it is comfotable and has an amazing selection of bottled beer. And Saturday evenings usually a cask or two upstairs. Theakston, I know you live in Arlington. Where do you usually go to drink? I am a life long resident of Fairfax County and I can count on one hand the few good places. I have however been to England many times and the reason I go is to sample the fine beer. The finest in the world. I was laughed at by friends back in the 1980s who questioned "Why would you travel anywhere, especially Europe, just to drink beer?". I will be there again in August for the GBBF and I may find time for a side trip or two away from my interest in beer. But then again, maybe not.

[Theakston]

Originally posted by chazwicke
Theakston, I know you live in Arlington. Where do you usually go to drink?

Hooters.

No not really:

We go to Rockbottom quite a bit. I was friends with the last brewer there. the new one is not as good (yet).
We go to the Irish bars at Union Station good atmosphere but the beer selection is not so good.
Gordon Biersch and The District Chophouse for brews down town.
We also occasionally go to the Brickskeller. They also own RFD where we are going to the Smithsonian Associates Beer Tastings. Tonight is Kalamazoo brewery (Michigan)
We go to the Cap City brewpub in Shirlington, my marathon training group goes there for a carbo-loading happy hour and I think they are currently the best brew pub in the area.
We used to like Blue and Gold -- 4 blocks from our house! But they went bust and now it is a dire sports bar with lines around the block (go figure).
I stopped in the Galaxy Hut on my way home Friday ( a funky little joint on Wilson Blvd) and had one of Richard's WaggleDance!

[chazwicke]

Been to all of them except RFD and Gordon Biersch. I have been wanting to check out Dave and Dianes new place and it does get great reviews. I may go there this week for dinner. I did like the Blue and Gold and was sorry to see it go. I am usually down at Union Station every other weekend and have stopped at Cap City regularly. And I agree The Shirlington Cap City is the best of the four that I have been to. The Oktoberfest there is fun. The Irish bars are fun except on St. Patricks day where you have to be a sardine. The old Bardo Rodeo in Arlington was a fun place with weird brews that were hit or miss. I have not yet been to the new Gordon Biersch over by the Spy Museum. But have been to others in other cities such as San Francisco and Honolulu. Occasionally I go to John Harvards too. And the world famous, best dive, Vienna Inn has a nice selection as well as great chili mac and dogs if you like that sort of thing. I do on occasion. (All the local Hard Times have decent beer selections too). Vienna Inn is a REALl dive though. I didn't know Galaxy hut was still open. There used to be several fun places along Wilson Blvd. I would recommend all the Sweetwater Taverns, especially Centreville, for the food. The beers are usually a little too mainstream for me. Old Dominion in Ashburn has a nice cafe attached to the brewery with most of their beers on tap and growlers for sale. I like to bring home some of Bob Tupper's Hop Pocket. I know Sweetwater and Rock Bottom also sell growlers. Too bad the DC brewers can't.

[steveh]

Originally posted by Theakston They also own RFD where we are going to the Smithsonian Associates Beer Tastings. Tonight is Kalamazoo brewery (Michigan)

Three words for you (especially if it's been typical Summer weather out there): O-BER-ON! ;) I hope they have some of it on draft for you!

S.