Can popularity can ruin a good beer?

[Doug Schultz]

Alas, the double edged sword of popularity has dropped methinks.

My last two purchases of Shiner Bock have been less than par.
Shiner is my every day kinda beer and it has always satisfied.

It used to be very consistent when it was harder to get. Now it's more watery and less aromatic than I remember and you can get it anywhere.

It seems the full conversion from Micro to Regional to Macro Fizz is upon them.....a pity.

Any other Texas Shiner drinkers in here notice it too?

[fretlessman71]

I tried a bottle of Shiner Bock about a month ago on the recommendation of several people, not to mention glowing reports here and on another website. I ended up pouring most of it down the drain. VERY disappointed in it. I had really hoped that I was going to find a good bock for a good price, and what I got tasted like root beer without the sugar. DRAT.

[sallad]

i've been thinking about this one myself.. i think i'm going to rant now; bear with me.

We live in a capitalistic society, so at some fundemental point, all breweries are in it to make money. Look at another thread on this board that talks about great micros that have gone belly-up. They all failed to make enough cash to stay in business.

Also, many micros have a hard time with distribution. Sure, and east coast micro can ship its kegs and cases out west, but then its hard to make sure that they are being properly cared for and properly served. I know of a beer store by me that stores their cases in an old shed out behind the shop. Temperaturess in that shed easily break 100F this time of year. Maintaining a quality product with mass distribution may require preservatives and more overhead of distribution staff. The product may suffer.

Another thing I've seen floating around here is how this beer or that beer is much worse than it used to be; in particular Pete's Wicked brews. well, if Pete's had to "sell out" to stay in business, then good for them. If they have had to use some corn sugar adjuncts in the process, well the beer suffers but at least we still have Pete's. If all Pete's brews have that american-micro-hoppy taste to them they used to not have, well, good for Pete's for helping America find its own style of beer.

I think its great if American beers are recognized by that profile. Think of the heavy, malty flavor of a German bock, or the spicy, fruity taste of a Belgian abbey. Now think of the crisp bitterness and citrus hop aroma of a Sierra Nevada pale ale (or many number of american micros). I think Americans should be proud to have such a style that is recognized as American. Better then associating yellow chemical fizz with American beer!

The bottom line is that the beer has to be marketed. If it only appeals to a handful of extreme beer lovers and/or beer snobs, good luck staying in business! (Thats why we homebrew; its all about the beer, not the money.) Running a brewery is a business, a way to make a living. At some point, nearly all of us sell out to some degree in order to make a living.

And I'm sure many of you can point out an example of a brewery that makes a quality product without adjucts or preservatives and still has mass distribution. Even better for those breweries! But those guys are few and far between. If many breweries have to make some sacrifices in quality to stay alive, just remember that its a business.

Cheers to beers, and having many choices!

[paul84043]

Microbreweries walk a razors edge between being a high quality, low distribution "true" micro and becoming a Macro-micro like Petes.
I tried some of Pete's wicked several years back and thought it was pretty damn good beer. I tried some again recently that was still obviously fresh, but it just wasn't what I remembered. It wasn't bad, still way better than AB superfizz, but not worth the effort to find it.

You have to ask yourself, as a Microbrewery owner, do I feel lucky?

Are you willing to gamble that wider distribution and the inevitable lower quality that comes with it will still be acceptable to yourself and your customers?
Why are you making beer? Because you love beer, or because you love sports cars and want to be able to buy more of them?

There is no simple answer and no easy winning solution. (I don't consider selling out to be a win, your results may vary.)

I won't buy Pete's wicked any more because I don't like what it's become and because the beer I make and buy at my local micros is far superior.

I met the owner of my favorite local micro the other day, he was a real jerk. I can't believe how much that impacted my desire to buy his beer. Weird...
He was interviewing a girl to work in thier pub, I don't think he actually said a single word to her face the whole time, his entire conversation was with her boobs, and all he talked about was his Porsche. And yes...she DID notice and didn't seem too impressed with him.

Another thing that bugs me is how they will package and ship out beer leaving the actual brewery with none for weeks at a time. Not even a couple of kegs to fill the gap.
We have been going there for lunch a couple times a week for the past few months and it's getting frustrating to ask for a Kolsch and hear, sorry, we shipped it all. Shipped it where? How about a Porter...nope, it all went to Idaho....what?
I don't know. I feel sorry for the people that have to deal with me, the customer, and walk the tightrope between the fleeting unicorn of true Micro success, making a deal with the devil, and oblivion.

[chazwicke]

I've had several brewers tell me the key to success is distribution and shelf space. There is a constant battle with the big guys and the regionals for shelf space. I had several contend that even with a quality product survival is tough. Brewpubs are different. They must have a quality product . However, did you ever notice how many brewpubs are really restraunts with a brewery as a novelty attraction? With mediocre food and mediocre beer as well. Just because something is "microbrewed" does not necessarily make it good. There are tons of ok brew pubs out there and less really great ones. Most micro breweries that are not restraunts or pubs make far better beer IMHO. Maybe because their main focus is on beer and not running a kitchen or restraunt.

[paul84043]

The Micro that we go to is a brewery first and a pub/restaurant second....

[chazwicke]

My local also is a brewery that has a small pub. Old Dominion Brewing

[TX1174]

I thought it was just me. Shiner has seemed like it has gotten watered down over the years. Me and my friends have been drinking it since we were in high school about ten years ago. Back then it had much more flavor and bite. I used to be a big fan. Went to the brewery tour a couple of times. I rarely buy it now. It was my everyday beer for a long time. If you are from Texas have you ever tried St. Arnold? I like all of there products.:(

[brewmonkey]

As a brewer I can tell you it is not easy to distro beer. We sat down and mapped out all the possible logistic problems we would run into.

Shelf space and a distro center that cares are damned hard to find. Chances are your beer is not going to be flyingoff the shelves at first (while you are in a brand name recognition phase) and even harder is the problem of providing POS for the stores/bars that would carry your beer.

When we started kegging/bottling beer for outside sales, I hit the streets with the beer in growlers and I would take them to owners and leave or I would have a 3gal corny with me. We would sit, have some pints and talk about beer. In almost every instance the owners were wanting to put the beer on tap/ the shelves, but only if I could provide POS (neons, banners, give away's etc). That is tough to get past and even tougher to provide when the majority of your working capital is put into just brewing the beer.

I am not saying it is impossible as other breweries have done it and done it well (Boulevard Brewing in KC is an great example).

I don't think I have seen a brewery "sell out" on purpose, but I am sure it has happened. In the case of "Pete's" brewing, IIRC one of the Macro's has brewed that from the start and Pete has never ownerd a single piece of brewing equipment (at least not at that scale). Someone correct me if I am wrong, as I have not had all my coffee yet and may not be thinking straight here.

Breweries grow and change with the coming and going of each brewer. Even at the regional scale, recipies will change over time and with the brewers. This happens for any given reason. The last two years I would contribute it to very poor malting barley harvests. I have had to switch maltsters twice due to decreased kernel size and diastatic power. Finding a suitable replacement was tough and I am still not sure if I got back to what I had. Hops crops also play a roll. Unless you have a contract with the producer of the hops, you will most likely not get the same exact harvest as last time. Contracts help avoid this, but can hurt you as well. You must "promise" that you will buy at least X amount, and if you don't you still have to pay for it.

I would also say water supply can really screw with you at smaller micro's. Unless you have a water distiller or RO system, water will fluctuate. Both the above can be costly to install and maintain. Our municipal water is fairly consistant but recently the powers to be decided to screw with the water by adding some "essential" minerals. They did not publish this in any print media, and I got caught very short on it. A beer that should have had very subtle hops came out very harsh, and it took me weeks to figure out the problem.

I know, I have gone off on some tangents here, but jumping into the "they sold out wagon" is not always the answer. If you feel the brewery has changed a beer for the worse, you should get the address and name of the brewer. Send them a letter letting them know how you feel. Trust me, I would love to hear the comments from the public about my beers. Even if it is something negative, we do not always catch our mistakes and rely on you, the consumer to help guide us on the path of righteousness. Of course it would not hurt to include a sample or two of your own brews!:D

[paul84043]

Thanks for the insight, I for one find it extremely interesting and worth reading.
I was not insinuating that brewers sell out intentionally, though, I would wager that some have.
The micro that I frequent, Uinta Brewing Co. Just recently attended a moderately large brewing festival/competition in Idaho Falls, Id. They took 7 medals, 2 Gold 4 silver and 1 bronze. Pretty impressive, thier beer really is fantastic.
I love to go there and smell all the smells associated with beer when we walk through the door...

My local homebrew shop has an employee that recently left Uinta due to the owners glowing personality (I just found this out last Friday) He said that pretty much the entire staff quit on him and that his quality really went downhill.
Well, the owner must have done one hell of a job of documenting his recipes, or managed to seriously pull a rabbit out of his hat because I would never have known that they were "suffering" unless he had told me....

[brewmonkey]

Originally posted by paul84043
Thanks for the insight, I for one find it extremely interesting and worth reading.
I was not insinuating that brewers sell out intentionally, though, I would wager that some have.


No problem there, I did not take it as an insinuation. Your thoughts are valid and as you said, some have sold out (kind of like U2).

[skahtboi]

Originally posted by TX1174
I thought it was just me. Shiner has seemed like it has gotten watered down over the years. Me and my friends have been drinking it since we were in high school about ten years ago. Back then it had much more flavor and bite. I used to be a big fan. Went to the brewery tour a couple of times. I rarely buy it now. It was my everyday beer for a long time. If you are from Texas have you ever tried St. Arnold? I like all of there products.:(

Odd. I feel just the opposite. I have been drinking Shiner Bock as an everyday beer for many years now, and still find it to be a more than adequate beer. Still full bodied and flavorful. I was less than impressed with St. Arnold's. Maybe this is all a matter of taste here.