Fuller's Summer Drinks

[Kalleh1]

I received my "First Draught" from Fuller's Fine Ale Club today and wondered if any of you have tried their summer drinks: Discovery, Organic Honey Dew, and Summer Ale.

If so, what are they like? I don't know if they are available here in the U.S., but I'd sure like to try them. I love their 1845, ESB and London Pride.

[newportstorm]

Summer Ale used to be available. Haven't seen it this year, but I remember buying loads of it when a retailer cleared out the large bottles (16.9 oz?) for $1.99 a couple summers ago. Good warm weather quaffer.

Cheers!

[stronk]

I stay away from Summer beers from any brewery, as they always seem to be too light and tasteless. Proper styles, like pilsener, wit, hefeweizen or pale ale, I do like and do drink in the summer, but anything labelled 'summer' always seems to be a short-lived novelty.

I tried a taster of Fuller's Summer Ale about a year ago and it backed up my opinion.

[chazwicke]

Originally posted by Kalleh1
I received my "First Draught" from Fuller's Fine Ale Club today



Fuller's Fine Ale Club? What is this and how does one join?

[Richard English]

Most Summer Ales seem to me to be trying to seduce the chemical fizz drinkers by producing a light coloured and light tasing beer. I don't care for them.

If I want a low gravity beer I generally choose a Mild (many examples of which I tried last Friday...)

[MeridianFC]

Originally posted by Richard English
Most Summer Ales seem to me to be trying to seduce the chemical fizz drinkers by producing a light coloured and light tasing beer. I don't care for them.


I think the seduction of fizz drinkers is a laudable goal. I agree with you though that, with notable exceptions, I don't care for them.

[steveh]

How about Young's Waggledance or Hopback's Summer Lightning? Two beers I've enjoyed once in a while and that I'd place in the notable exception category.

S.

[Richard English]

Waggledance is OK, but not my favourite; Summer Lightning, in spite of its name, is not a summer beer being available as a bca and on draught throughout the year.

[steveh]

Originally posted by Richard English
Summer Lightning, in spite of its name, is not a summer beer being available as a bca and on draught throughout the year.

That's a fairly recent change in status though, isn't it? I was under the impression that it was originally brewed as a Summer beer and popularity prompted its year-round availability. Maybe a testament to the seduction of swill drinkers?

S.

[Richard English]

It's certainly been available year-round in England for some years, although I don't know about the USA

[chazwicke]

I had good and bad bottles of the Summer Lightning. But the Entire Stout that Hopback makes is delicious.

[MeridianFC]

I had a completely delicious pint (ok 3) of Summer Lightening (cask) at Max's in Baltimore a few months back. As I recall it hits a bit above normal summer beer levels.

[MeridianFC]

Well it's 5% which puts it into the strong bitter category IIRC. Obviously it's average strength for American brew,

http://www.hopback.co.uk/summer.html

[Kalleh1]

Fuller's Fine Ale Club? What is this and how does one join?
When I first became a Fuller's fan, Richard told me about their Fine Ale Club. I e-mailed them to ask if I could join (it's free), and they were delighted to have me as their only American in their club! They send me their publication, "First Draught," and my only restriction is that I am not allowed to take part in their competitions. I love the thought of being their only American, but I am not selfish. ;) Join me, Chaz or Steve or whoever! It is my renewal time, and I am sure you can apply for membership via that e-mail address: finealeclub@fullers.co.uk.

Some of you may recall my post earlier this summer looking for different selections of beer for my daughter's graduation. Well, Richard strongly suggested Hopback's Summer Lightning for the light beer the graduates wanted. I couldn't find it so we went with <gag>Amstel Light</gag>. Now I do want to try Summer Lightning! I guess I won't bother looking for the Fuller's summer drinks though.

[Richard English]

Quote "... I guess I won't bother looking for the Fuller's summer drinks though...."

Fuller's and Young's summer drinks aren't bad and are streets ahead of the likes of Amstel. However, for those whose taste buds are developed and who appreciate the comlexity of a decent pint, they will appear somewhat thin and simplistic.

Ideal as a stepping stone for the mega-fizz lagerboys.

[fretlessman71]

"Lagerboys".... perfect! We gotta come up with an R&B vocal group called Lagerboyz II Alemen. Got any tenors here? :D

[Richard English]

In fact, it's not my name by Wychwood Brewery's who have a series of advertisements one of which says, "What's the matter lagerboy - afraid you might taste something?"

There's a gallery of downloadable Wychwood pictures here http://www.wychwood.co.uk/wychwood_gallery.htm, which they are happy for people to use as screensaver.

[steveh]

Must we go over this again? Lager does not equate to bad beer! Some time ago I ranted about the Wychwood ads in All About Beer and their allusions to Lager being all inferior, all the time.

Here and now, I challenge the Wychwood clowns to meet me at the Salvator Keller for a drink - my treat, but they must keep up with me. :cool:

S.

[Richard English]

Quote "...Must we go over this again? Lager does not equate to bad beer! ..."

Where did I say it did?

[steveh]

Originally posted by Richard English
Where did I say it did?

I didn't quote you, but using the Wychwood advertising as punctuation certainly perpetuates the sad myth they're trying to spread.

As a disclaimer I have to say that I enjoy the Wychwood products, but think it beneath them to paint lagers with one big brush, and my challenge still stands.

S.

[Richard English]

I quoted the Wychwood advertising simply to show where the name originated.

I do not think that there point is especially contentious in the UK in any case since most of the lager drunk here is chemical fizz, with Carling being the most popular "draught" beer and Dudweiser the most popular bottled beer in the UK.

Few UK "lager" drinkers would know what a good lager is if it hit them in the eye. The USA is far better at lagers than is the UK; our strength is in cask-conditioned ales.

[steveh]

Originally posted by Richard English
Few UK "lager" drinkers would know what a good lager is if it hit them in the eye.

Shall I quote your tag-line? Good beer is good beer, whether Lager or Ale (and vice versa) - we need to educate to that line, no matter where we are.

Preachy? Me? Maybe. :rolleyes:

S.

[stronk]

I agree with Richard here. There are very few serious lagers brewed in the UK. We needed a term for the bad beers and, since they were almost exclusively lagers, we used that. CAMRA themselves still use the term in a derogatary (sp?) way. It's a shame to demonise a perfectly respectable group of styles, but that's the way it's panned out.

[steveh]

Originally posted by stronk
We needed a term for the bad beers and, since they were almost exclusively lagers, we used that.

Sounds like the basis for serious prejudice to me. If we "need" a name for pretentious, shallow ale drinkers, shall we call them CAMRA? I don't believe so, but it's just as ignorant - don't you think?

S.

[Richard English]

Quote "... I don't believe so, but it's just as ignorant - don't you think?..."

No. It's based on quite a different premise. Because just about every UK-brewed lager is rubbish, to refer to "lager-drinkers" in a derogatory fashion is not unreasonable even if not 100% accurate (but who said advertising was always accurate?)

The US beer tradition has, for years, been that of lager type beers and it was quite reasonable up until a few years ago to speak of American beers as rubbish - because most of them were. Things have changed and few now make that mistake.

In the UK lagers are still, on the whole, rubbish, and that is the point that Wychwood are making in their advertising. Remember, it's a UK campaign and it is unreasonable to expect it to make the same points in other countries. There are many US campaigns that would be equally pointless in the UK.

For example, I recently received a Spam email that said:

"You recently visited one of our sites or one of our partner sites and as a result we are excited to welcome you to Visions Marketing Network. You have been pre-selected by us for a Liberty Union Card and a separate unsecured payday advance of up to 1,500. With no security deposit this is a great offer"

I genuinely haven't the slightest idea of what is being talked about since the terms used are mostly unfamiliar to me.

[fretlessman71]

It's essentially a credit card. Burn it. Even if it's on your computer. Get the matches. Now. ;)

[Richard English]

Thank you for the advice. I deleted the email anyway as it was clearly of no interest to me - even were I to be eligible.

[steveh]

Originally posted by Richard English
Quote "... I don't believe so, but it's just as ignorant - don't you think?..."

No. It's based on quite a different premise. Because just about every UK-brewed lager is rubbish, to refer to "lager-drinkers" in a derogatory fashion is not unreasonable even if not 100% accurate

Sorry Richard, I can't subscribe to that line of thinking at all, it smacks too much of ignorance and prejudice (and yeah, I know we're talking about beer here, but what's next?).

Just because UK-brewed lagers are swill, that means you can't find any good lager on that island? I was able to sneak an Ayinger in among all the CC ale I was sampling when I was there - a far cry from Sam Smith's lager or even Carlsberg these days.

The same was true here when the macros reigned supreme. You could always find a decent import or even a smaller regional (August Schell, for one) putting out good beer - even lager!

So no, I can't buy into calling anyone a lager-drinker in any derogatory fashion. May I suggest you work at introducing "swill" into UK vernacular? It's certainly more accurate and less offensive - especially to this lagerhead.

S.

[fretlessman71]

OK, lagerboy, it's time for you to take your fight overseas... I hereby nominate steveh to be the chairman of the first chapter of CAMRL! Any seconds? :)

[Richard English]

OK. I'll stop talking about lagerboys if you Americans stop referring to casks as "kegs" and draught beer as "tap".

[steveh]

I know that you're probably joking Richard, but it ain't the same thing.

And Fret - you guys come up with a backing budget and I'm there!

S.

[Richard English]

As Oscar Wilde said, "We have much in common with the Americans these days - apart from language, of course".

It is as well to remember Oscar's wise words.

[MeridianFC]

Can't we all just get along?

:D

While I understand both sides of this debate, being a fan of both Real Ale and Bavarian Lager, I think this really is a language issue. Lager in it's colloquial usage in the UK means something entirely different than what steveh has in mind. If you polled 100 Britons and asked them what lager was 98 would name everything but what we (sauve sophisticated bon vivant-y beer afficianados) would name.

The person foremost in leading the charge for rescuing British lager, Alistair Hook (Meantime Brewing Co.), even rarely uses the term, though most of his brews are in fact lagers. I have noted with interest, however, that he's taken to brewing a large number of ales lately, whereas he only used to have one (cask at that).

FWIW much of the Ayinger in England, at least on my last trip over, was contract brewed.

[chazwicke]

I remember the original Lager Boy thread. And the discussion that resulted from that thread actually caused me to re examine lagers as a whole. Even though my preference is for cask ales it does not preclude me from enjoying a precision lager. My own local micro, Old Dominion, makes a good one. The first sixtel to grace my new kegerater was Victory Amber Lager. My 18 year old son prefers good lagers (right now at least ;) ) But he is still learning. He adored the HB from the Hofbrau Haus in Kentucky and has since enjoyed bottles of it. He also likes Old Dominion. He of course will drink ales too and has only had a few sips of real ale. But the point being is that BOTH ales and lagers come in the form of excellent beers and swill. I'd truly hate to rule out one in favor of the other altogether. I think in the past couple of years on this board many of us have looked at lagers with more appreciation even though I believe the majority here prefer ales. Steveh has also made the point of beer education or beer journeys. Most of us started out drinking lager and found micro ales later. Many of us have progressed in our education and have come back to lagers but this time with an appreciation of fine lagers of which there are many. I know I have teased about Lager Boys before but I respect those that appreciate them as I do too. That being said, I still prefer real ale the most. But Kudos to Steveh as he has caused me to again think of lagers in a far better light than I had for a long time.

[MeridianFC]

1. Andeschser Dunkel
2. St. Georgen Kellerbrau (unfiltered!)
3. Augustiner Hell
4. Jever Pils
5. Brooklyn Pilsner
6. Tupper's Hop Pocket Pils
7. Schiehallion (cask!)
8. Gordon Biersch Schwarzbier
9. Hacker-Pschorr Oktoberfest
10. Einbecker Ur-Bock

That's 10 top notch world beating lagers I thought of off the top of my head. There's no doubt in my mind whatsoever, that lager is good beer.

[steveh]

Thanks for the vote of confidence Chaz, and believe me when I say I've defended real ale nearly as much as lager in the past!

Meridian/Richard, I completely understand colloquialisms when they run from braces to suspenders and bonnets to hoods, but in the beer world "Lager" should be just as understood as "Ale," don't you think?

I've understood the differences between tap, draught, draft, keg, firkin, pin and the like for a long time. Then again, I am a beer enthusiast. Sounds like the English swill drinkers are as much so as the American swill drinkers (that is to say not) - Mr. Wilde.

And I don't think Sam Smith was contracting the Ayinger when I was in London, but if they were, they were doing a good job - nothing like their own lager.

S.

[chazwicke]

Originally posted by MeridianFC
1. Andeschser Dunkel
2. St. Georgen Kellerbrau (unfiltered!)
3. Augustiner Hell
4. Jever Pils
5. Brooklyn Pilsner
6. Tupper's Hop Pocket Pils
7. Schiehallion (cask!)
8. Gordon Biersch Schwarzbier
9. Hacker-Pschorr Oktoberfest
10. Einbecker Ur-Bock

That's 10 top notch world beating lagers I thought of off the top of my head. There's no doubt in my mind whatsoever, that lager is good beer.

Troegs Sunshine Pils has been good this summer. I'd even buy a sixtel. Nice list above. Especially #7. ;)

[Richard English]

And it supports my contention that the USA is a better place for lagers than is the UK. I doubt whether you'd find any one of these lagers in a UK pub - indeed I don't even recognise many of them.

What you'd find in a UK pub would be a fine selection of cask-conditioned ales, plus Fosters, Carlsberg, Dudweiser, Carling, Heineken, Amstel, Miller and possibly one or two other ersatz lagers. Very rarely will you find drinkable lagers although many pubs do now stock proper Budweiser - usually bottled.

Because of our Ale heritage, lager had always been a "specialist" drink and the chemical fizz factories have capitalised on this by positioning lagers as a sophisticated prestige drink and by charging accordingly. So Dudweiser and Carling rubbish costs more than proper beer.

In the USA, with no recent cask beer tradition, it seesm obvious that it's the revival of proper lagers that has lead the way.

[MeridianFC]

Well I agree that we should change the world to the way it should be, but there's also the world as it is.

As a quick aside I was watching "the Thristy Traveller" the other night, a program wherein one of the most annoying persons to ever stand in front of a camera visits various points of the globe to sample and explore specific parts of the drinking landscape, and the episode featured was on Bitter. The locales vistied were strictly cask related, though the host never really addressed the issue of cask v. other. At one point he's in Manchester at the Strangways Brewery, a bit sad considering that Imbev are now set to shutter that site, and is sampling Boddies on cask (two taps out of the half dozen or so of XXXX and the nitro keg version). The host then goes to a restaurant to help make a meal with beer and share a pint of cask with the head chef. Afterwards as he's seated with the entire kitchen staff, maybe a 8 or so, they're all to a man drinking fizzy lager. This on a show about cask!

I'm sorry where was I? :D

[chazwicke]

When I was last over I noticed lots of tap handles for Staropramen. I have had bottles of this in Hungary and the former Yugoslavia as well as the Czech Republic. That was a number of years ago. I did not try the draft versions I saw in the pubs as I was not willing to forgo the cask offerings. Only once did I have to drink a poor beer on thet trip. John Smiths at a private party. But I did not like the beer after a sample.

[MeridianFC]

Originally posted by Richard English

What you'd find in a UK pub would be a fine selection of cask-conditioned ales, plus Fosters, Carlsberg, Dudweiser, Carling, Heineken, Amstel, Miller and possibly one or two other ersatz lagers. Very rarely will you find drinkable lagers although many pubs do now stock proper Budweiser - usually bottled.



If I lived in the UK a fine selection of cask-conditioned ales would take me a long, long way. That said I'm surprised that just for the ocassional change of pace that more places don't offer decent continental lagers and/or Belgian specialties. I'm fairly habitual in my drinking patterns, but it's nice to have a break from time to time and to explore new tastes.

I found on my last trip over, that even with my extreme devotion to cask, it was nice to take a break an have a pint of the lager beer at Meantime or some fresh Dutch Grolsch at De Hems.

[Richard English]

Quote "...but in the beer world "Lager" should be just as understood as "Ale," don't you think?..."

But it's not. In Germany, where the style orginated, the term lager does not mean beer at all. They call their beers - "beer". Lagering is storing the beer to allow it to mature.

In some parts of the English-speaking world (but certainly not all or them) it refers to a beer type. In the UK it means, to most people, chemical fizz - because that's what most British lagers are.

The same problems apply to the term "beer" itself - which can mean just about anything at all - from the lightest of light lagers to the blackest of stouts.

One reason why CAMRA revived the old expression "ale" was to create a distinctive name for the cask-conditioned beer style and, fortunately, the name does not seem to have been hijacked except in the special case of India Pale Ale.

[Richard English]

Quote "...That said I'm surprised that just for the ocassional change of pace that more places don't offer decent continental lagers and/or Belgian specialties...."

Most pubs don't, although Wetherspoons are making an effort and presently have a Belgian style on draught (yes, draught, not tap) which is very nice. But if you really want decent lagers you need to visit a specialist bar, of which there are several in London but not outside.

[chazwicke]

I think I recall seeing some Hoegaarten taps there as well.

[chazwicke]

Originally posted by MeridianFC
As a quick aside I was watching "the Thristy Traveller" the other night, a program wherein one of the most annoying persons to ever stand in front of a camera visits various points of the globe to sample and explore specific parts of the drinking landscape


I caught the tail end of this show the other week and it was on Stout. Since I missed it I can't comment but I'll bet the whole show took place at Guinness.

[Jeff]

To build on Richard's explanation of "lager" and it's use in England. If you polled Americans most would not have a clue to the correct meaning of Ale.

A thought that just occured: I'm surprised BMC hasn't turned the British ad campaign around on Americans. Hey Beer drinkers put down that wussy ale and step up to a lager.

[fretlessman71]

Originally posted by Richard English
OK. I'll stop talking about lagerboys if you Americans stop referring to casks as "kegs" and draught beer as "tap". Sounds like a fair trade to me! I'm in!

[Richard English]

The summer edition of "First Draught" (the Fuller's fine ale club magazine) has reviews of the three Fuller's summer brews.

Anyone who doesn't yet belong can join (free) by going to the Fuller's website www.fullers.co.uk

[wild]

Originally posted by Richard English
Anyone who doesn't yet belong can join (free) by going to the Fuller's website www.fullers.co.uk
I am a big fan of Fuller's but;
Membership is only open to UK residents aged 18 or over

Wild

[Richard English]

They already have at least one US member (Kalleh1) and the only caveat they insisted upon was that she couldn't enter the competitions.

The only other restriction I can find is that membership application by fax is only available to UK residents.

Go ahead and apply!

[wild]

I saw that restriction under the finealeclub@fullers.co.uk link. But I'm game and have sent in my email.
Thanks Richard.

Wild

[chazwicke]

I sent them an email asking how to join.

[Kalleh1]

Great to have you aboard, Chaz!

As for lagers and ales, Richard has helped me to appreciate English ales, and I prefer them (especially cask conditioned ales). However, Steve has helped to appreciate lagers...and to keep my mind open about different kinds of beer.

Just to lighten up this thread a bit, I received the following great ad:

http://www.bigad.com.au/