DC area CAMRA members & cask fans

[MeridianFC]

This has come up before but I'll throw it out again to see if we can stir up interest. Are there any folks who'd be interested in 1. attending or 2. assisting with putting on a small Real Ale festival in the DC area?

I know Chazwicke and myself are card carrying members are there any other CAMRA folks in the Metro DC area about?

Anybody, member or no, up for getting a few pints (Rock Bottom? RFD? Brick? Cap City? other?) to discuss?

[Fritz_Hahn]

Make it three.

[HogieWan]

Hearing of all the great beer, especially real ale, you have over there, I think I need to move to DC. Maybe I could just run for Senate.

[MeridianFC]

Line up ideas:

Harviestoun: Bitter & Twisted (CBOB winner)/Old Engine Oil/Seasonal
RCH: Pitchfork
Adnams: Explorer/Seasonal
Coniston: Bluebird Bitter (CBOB winner)
Hop Back: Summer Lightening
Williams/Fraoch: Red/Black/Gold/Heather Ale

Old Dominion/Tuppers: 2nd Best Bitter/Hop Pocket Ale/Seasonal?
Cap City (Post Office): ?
Rock Bottom (Bethesda): ?
Olivers/Wharf Rat: Best Bitter/ ESB
Clipper City: ?
Victory: Hop Devil/Uncle Teddy's Bitter
Troegs: ?
Brooklyn: ?
Yards: Philadelphia Pale Ale/ESB

Guests/Sponsors ideas:
CAMRA
BURP
B United
Shelton Brothers
Legend Importers

Location(s):
The Reef
RFD
Rock Bottom
other?

[MeridianFC]

I just sent off a note to Ray Daniels (Chicago Real Ale Festival) to ask for advice. Alex Hall of the US Cask list and Brazen Head fests has given me some advice and encouragement.

[HogieWan]

Originally posted by MeridianFC
I just sent off a note to Ray Daniels (Chicago Real Ale Festival) to ask for advice. Alex Hall of the US Cask list and Brazen Head fests has given me some advice and encouragement.

sounds like this is really moving! If this happens, I may really come to DC. I've been wanting to visit again for a while now. So by the time this actually comes up I can convince the little woman to fly up

[chazwicke]

We may also need to broach this on DC beer. I'll try to post something over there and link this thread. Also, we might communicate with Barum brewer Tim. But maybe we should meet and discuss first. I was in Burp for many years although not an active participant. I do know that Burpers are very active in the DC beer community and have some experience at organizing. We might consider their involvement. The woman who is responsible for FABfest, Melissa Franz, said she might consider taking her show on the road too. She may be willing to give advice or just plain set up a fest here.
I can't remember if Theakston is a CAMRA member. Any other DC Real Ale Fans out there?

[Katefan00]

I'd come AND help, such as I can.

The spirit is willing, but the knowledge is weak!

Still, sign me up. Would love to help however I can. I'll be in Texas the first week of August, then I'll be going to Costa Rica the last week of August, but otherwise I'll be in town.

K.

[chazwicke]

Where in Costa Rica? A beautiful country with a poor beer selection. There is a micro somewhere in San Jose that I have heard of. Ithink someone posted about it here a while back. When I was there it was mainly Imperial that was available.

I am in the midst of moving our office to a new building The move was to take place this weekend. The new digs have not been granted an occupancy permit so we are moving to a temporary sight in our current building. Kind of a fiasco. And I'll be away for the holiday weekend in OC. (trying to set up the kegerator). So the next week or two might be a little hectic but I think we should meet up one weeknight and discuss this possibility. Maybe at RFD or Bricks so we can try to involve Dave.

[Katefan00]

Originally posted by chazwicke
Where in Costa Rica? A beautiful country with a poor beer selection. There is a micro somewhere in San Jose that I have heard of. Ithink someone posted about it here a while back. When I was there it was mainly Imperial that was available.

I'll mainly be in Guanacaste, on the various beaches, with some time for the nearby rainforests/volcanos/etc. Think I might take a day trip to Nicaragua. But mostly I'll be on the beach! I guess I'll mainly be drinking rum... and I think they have a local coffee liqueur that's supposed to be good.

K.

[chazwicke]

Here is a response I received via email:


Considering DC and Baltimore as one megalopolis, a real ale festival in
our area has already been done!

Racers Cafe in northern Baltimore has organized a Real Ale Challenge
(local breweries) for 9 years now. The local US branch of the SPBW
organized their own fest last year in September and I believe are on
track to repeat this year. Sean Bolan's in Federal Hill also organized
a smaller festival 2 summers ago.

In DC proper, Dave Alexander's RFD would be a natural and large enough
venue. Dave has long served cask ale both here and at the Brickskeller.

Having worked for Legends, Ltd. and having dealt extensively with the
wonderful folks at B United, I would add that the timing of importation
English and Scottish casks is very important to their health. The heat
of summer doesn't lend itself well to freshness of firkins. The
earliest you should expect casks in good condition to reach our shores
would be mid to late October; the latest would be late April.

And, shamelessly, I plug, Clipper City produces firkins of our own
beers, available at selected local accounts.

Yours for good fermentables,
Thomas Cizauskas

[Derekt2]

First time posting on this forum so aplogoies if clunky.

OB: I'd be very happy to volunteer for such a fest and I'm sure I could find others who would help. I'd also be happy to help organize although I can't say I have any previous experience.

Four things come to mind: 1) Contacting BURP, who has experience with Spirit of Free Beer and Spirit of Belgium would be a very good idea -- anyone know who organized those? 2) RFD in DC is about the only place I can think of who would be well suited to do this, whether hosting the event or simpkly providing storage. 3) Failing that, there is a wonderful O'fest in September in Shirlington, VA. Perhaps it is possible to start with a "festival within a festival" and begin to build up to something bigger. 4) Old Dominion in Ashburn is also an option but a bit of a Catch-22. OTOH, they are far enough away where it would be somewhat difficult to draw people out from DC etc., OTOH, it is very close to Dulles airport which would bring in people from out-of-town (but would probably have to be pretty big to warrant such a draw.)

Just my .02

- D

[MeridianFC]

Welcome aboard Derek, get tore in.

I tried E-mailing Ray Daniels but it got bounced back anyone around got a good addy for him?

CAMRA recommended I get in touch with someone in one of the other US chapters, none of which are local, to whit I suggest we found the DC Metro (of DC Metro & Baltimore) chapter post haste.

As mentioned elsewhere Dave Alexander is not interested/too busy so RFD is out. I could probably convince Brian at the Reef or the bar I used to work at. It would be much, much easier to use an already licensed facility.

The Racer's Real Ale challenge is great and I intend going again. There was also the SPBW event which I'd like to go to also. AFAIK both events were totally or primarily domestic, which is good, but I'd really like to throw some imports into the mix. And do an event in DC since there isn't one at the moment.

The festival within a festival is not a bad idea, though I think if we keep it small, on the level of the Racers thing (appx. a dozen casks) it could probably happen.

[MeridianFC]

Originally posted by chazwicke
I'll be away for the holiday weekend in OC. (trying to set up the kegerator).

Chaz gi' me a bell, I'll be at OC till Tuesday morning. Maybe we can meet at DFH or somesuch.

[chazwicke]

OK. I'm heading down this evening. I'm hooking up the ole Kegorator on Saturday hopefully. I've got to call DFH and see if I can get a sixtel down there. Or else I've gotta find a way to keep one from Old Dominion cold all night

[chazwicke]

A few year ago (at least 5) a group of us started pursuing the idea when the
Chicago Real Ale festival was canceled the first time. We spoke with Ray
Daniels about using the equipment from Chicago. We then met with the
British Embassy. They were interested in the idea. We were gaining
momentum until we hit a huge road block -- space.

In order to do real ale properly, it needs to be stored at the proper
temperature in the place it is going to be served from for at least two
days. We could not find an affordable place to do it. If you have a two
day festival, you would need to rent space for at least four days. Two of
those days would be dead days. In the Washington area, to find a space big
enough to have a festival and hold the firkins and pay for two days in which
you are not bringing in any revenue made the idea cost prohibitive.

Steve

[chazwicke]

The Chesapeake Bay Branch of the Society for Preservation of Beers
> from the Wood (www.spbw.org) is currently organizing a Real Ale
> Festival for October, exact venue and date TBD at latest report
> (probably in Baltimore).
>
> I would strongly suggest that any DC area organizers consider all
> the logistical angles and consider either 1) working with the SPBW
> to improve their event, or 2) determining a venue/method where two
> overlapping festivals could benefit from joint logistics (just as
> an example, either sending firkins to both Baltimore and Bethesda,
> or using DC's easier import laws to get firkins that could star in
> DC that can't show up in Baltimore, so there's little to no overlap).
>
> Alexander D. Mitchell IV
> Baltimore correspondent, Mid-Atlantic Brewing News
> Baltimore member, SPBW

[HogieWan]

Originally posted by chazwicke
Or else I've gotta find a way to keep one from Old Dominion cold all night

where there's a will . . .

[MeridianFC]

Nice to hear from the SPBW folks and they make some good points.

[FSHCG_Les]

Hi,
I'm a first time poster as well. Got the link to this thread from dc beer.

Having a decent sized real ale fest in the area is a goal that is being discussed by a group of my friends for the same reason you're discussing it - no Chicago RAF.
I'm a member of the Chesapeake branch of SPBW. As Tom mentioned, we did our own thing last year instead of assisting with Racers. We had it at Wharf Rat @ camden yards and with over 250 in attendance the first year, we were delighted. We plan to have this event at Wharf Rat again. Date should be confirmed soon but it will be mid-late October.
We had 18? firkins last year but want to expand this year to 25+ and feature some out of state beers such as Brooklyn, Ommegang, DFH, etc. We'd love to get some English casks as well and are working towards that.
Our SPBW President, Dominic Cantalupo has been talking with a handful of local brewers who are interested in turning our real ale event into a large scale festival. I would hope we could find a venue between DC and Baltimore where we could pull from both metros.

I'm IN! I'll volunteer to assist however I can and will spread the word to SPBW. I'm also a CAMRA member and will be headed to my 6th GBBF as a volunteer the first week of August. I've gained loads of knowledge working over there. I'm also a homebrewer and president of the Free State Homebrewers Club Guild - a Maryland based umbrella organization comprising 9 homebrew clubs. We just organized this year's National Homebrewers Conferance - Ray Daniels was in town for it so I can reach out to him if needed and I can get support from all our homebrew clubs - to help boost attendance and volunteers. Ray's email is ray@brewersassociation.org
Rick Garvin was the organizer of BURP's Spirit of Belgium and also assisted me with lining up brewers for NHC. He would be a great resource to have on board for such a festival. I'll send him this thread.

OK, I'm tired of typing. I'm In and would enjoy discussing this over a few pints.

Les White
www.spbw.org
www.MDHomebrewers.org

[Derekt2]

I know it's anathema to real ale but I've been mulling over getting one for years. Unfortunately, I lost track of Allan Holdsworth, on of its inventors, years ago and now have no idea where/how to get one. Any ideas?

[Derekt2]

Guess I haven't quite figured out how to directly reply to one message but will get there. In the meantime, Les, I may have to catch up with you guys one day soon. How often do you meet in DC/Virginia? I was a CAMRA member years ago but faded out in the later nineties becuase swimming the Atlantic for a proper pint was wearing on me. I'd love to meet up with people of similar interests locally. :D

[MeridianFC]

Well I'd still love to do a DC event but it seems like it may do for us DC area folks to throw our weight behind the Charm City event, if nothing else we could learn a thing or two.

Whilst I'm big booster for US breweries doing cask and I think that's where the future lies, I'd love to see some imports at whatever fest happens. There are three great importers (Legend, B United, Shelton Bros) who all do good cask so it shouldn't be that hard to get some of those.

Maybe we shoud all meet up, DC CAMRA folks and the SPBW people. Dicussing this while not supping on beer is folly.

:D

[MeridianFC]

Hey I just noticed I'm over 1K posts! To think how much of my life I've wasted here..........

:D

[HogieWan]

Originally posted by MeridianFC
Hey I just noticed I'm over 1K posts! To think how much of my life I've wasted here..........

:D

Congrats on wasting time here - I know the feeling!

[rgarvin]

Originally posted by MeridianFC

I tried E-mailing Ray Daniels but it got bounced back anyone around got a good addy for him?[/B]

Ray Daniels splits his time between Boulder and Chicago. He is at ray@brewersassociation.org.

Cheers, Rick

[chazwicke]

Welcome to all the DC beer folks! We have an active DC contingent here on Realbeer. And I think most of us also read DCbeer.

I really like the idea of bringing over English casks. I know it can and has been done. FABFest in Miami was great. The brewer Tim (I've forgotten his last name) from Barum Brewery told me he could provide the beer as he does for Fabfest. He said just point to a map and tell him when to bring it. He is tied into the Southern England Brewers Association or something like that. I believe they flew the casks into Boston and trucked them to Miami. They were set up in a cooled plexiglas room in a tent and were dispensed by gravity.

After attending several British real ale festivals including GBBF I'd really like to see some actual English (or Scottish) casks.

I also attended Jeff Brownings Connecticut REal Ale Festival last January. The English casks were the highlights.

It looks like we have much to discuss but it seems our area is willing to put up the effort. Whether it be supporting a larger existing festival or starting something new.

[chazwicke]

I'd love to see a SPBW Real Ale Festival. As a long-time CAMRA member, I'd
also love to see a CAMRA branch in the Baltimore/DC area.

There is a real ale festival that has over 40 great traditional real ales
every November in the DC area (46 in 2004, 48 in 2005). Of course, you need
to be a BURP member to attend. And, the beer does not need to traverse the
ocean. The educational efforts of the BURP Real Ale evangelists has gotten
the state of the homebrewing art pretty high. The venue and weather that
time of year allow us to have the casks setup 48 or more hours ahead of time
for settling.

Check out page 3 of the December 2004 newsletter for a photo of the bar
buildout and 20+ locally owned beer engines. The article on the event by
Philip DeBeers is, ahem, idiosyncratic.
http://burp.org/burpnews/pdf/200412.pdf

Cheers, Rick



I was a longtime Burper who let my membership lapse a few years ago. I was never all that active but enjoyed the newsletter and the discounts at the HB store.

I am also a Life Member of CAMRA

[MeridianFC]

I sent a note to a high heid yin (you can ask about that later) at Chesp.SPBW highlighting what we are talking about (inquired about membership too, hey why not?).

K.

[chazwicke]

Let me know about membership too. And congrats on hitting that big 1000Th!

[chazwicke]

Dave from the Brick here.

I have been spoken to many times over the years about holding a Real Ale
Festival in DC. We've been offering real ale in cask at the Brick for about 20
years and I think those who know me also know I've been shouting the virtues of
real ale from that mountaintop for as long. Ray Daniels once told me the
Chicago festival logistics pretty much take a couple months out of his calendar,
I'm sorry but not really so surprised it's been canceled recently. Aside
from the personal time commitment problems city governments are not all that
interested in dealing with those wishing to offer a lot of beer to a lot of
people but Ray has always done an absolutely incredible job with his festival
fersure. Doing one right takes a lot of effort from a lot of people and this is
my concern. If I am to be involved in a Real Ale festival in DC it has to be
done right, the respect we have for both the world of beer and this
delicious but fragile product demands no less.

That being stated, honestly I would love to do a festival and have in fact
spoken with Thomas Cizauskas about this often over the last few years. Those
who know Tom know he knows his stuff and would be an important part of any
team attempting this undertaking. As far as my involvement, I would definitely
be willing to participate, I think RFD's back room would work quite well, if
not annually, then definitely at least for the first year to see what interest
local beer lovers bring to the table. Metro-wise it's pretty hard to beat
RFD which is just half a block from the China Place metro hub that handles the
red, green and yellow lines plus if the city gets the old convention center
ground level parking lot going that will even make it a more attractive
location. As I said my big concern is having the right group handling the
considerable logistics. Perhaps Tom is the way to go first off, his familiarity with
both the local beer scene and the people behind it might be the proper
starting point in assembling a group to begin examining the undertaking but I can
most definitely not speak for him, that is his decision to make. I'd be happy
to be part of the team fersure if that helps make it happen and would be
happy to host a meeting at the Brick some afternoon or evening with those Tom
thinks should be involved, not a problem there at all.

Cheerios to all from
Dave at the Brick

[chazwicke]

More from DC Beer:


With all due respect to all jumping on the Real Ale Festival bandwagon (beerwagon?), let me bring up a very valid, albeit unfortunate, logistical problem.

There ARE, unfortunately, a couple outright "feuds" going on between a couple real-ale makers/distributors and the venues that would/could/should be dealing with them. I've heard outright one representative say "we're not dealing with [Venue X] until they make right what they did to us." The allegations were serious--involving some serious financial or contractural problems and subsequent alleged slander. This particular company deals with as much as half or more of the firkins in the United States that come from abroad.

I know of one venue that has said outright "I'm not dealing with [name withheld] Distributing, and here's why," and launched into a five-minute spiel of allegations of unethical, immoral, or otherwise beer-seller-unfriendly behavior. I have no idea if any or all of it is true, and some of it is simply a judgment call, much as some of us say we'd rather die of thirst than drink a Budweiser.

There's supposedly one beer festival that was started up specifically to offer an alternative outlet to parties that felt abused or aggrieved by another similar beer festival in the same area.

All this is on top of the logistics of what is necessary for a firkin of anybody's beer--brewpub, micro, or import--to actually appear and be tapped in whatever jurisdiction. The laws are vastly different in Maryland, DC, and Virginia.

Those who actually do the buying, selling, and distributing presumably know who is whom in these cases. I'm not naming names. And if you think this gets bad, I've actually seen worse "rivalries" in the wine-festival field.

Therefore, in order for any successful Real Ale Festival to be held in the Northeast, some neutral party (perhaps the Society for Preservation of Beers from the Wood or a local homebrew club, or perhaps one of the venues in question willing to do what is demanded to broker a peace or truce) is going to have to negotiate some neutral turf and conditions.

In the long run, while floating about a multitude of suggestions for a venue, date, etc. may be all well and good, it's most likely going to fall to the officers of the SPBW or the owner of a venue such as Max's or RFD to actually make such a festival happen. And no matter what happens, it's likely someone's going to be unhappy with the results.

But keep thinking out loud, folks.

Alexander D. Mitchell IV
Baltimore Mid-Atlantic Brewing News correspondent

[chazwicke]

With all the talk about cask ale festivals and the
demise of the Chicago Real Ale Festival and the
wanting to bring it to the East Coast etc... I am
SHOCKED that there has been no mention about NERAX.
The folks who put it on are the same people
responsible for bringing cask ales from the US to the
GBBF. And a handful of the CAMRA folks usually come
over to help out etc. Oh what is NERAX you ask... It
is only the New England Real Ale Exhibition. Surf
over to:
http://wwww.nerax.org for more details.
They only had ~70 cask this year, 44 from US and 26
from UK.
Mark your calendars for next year May 3-6, 2006.
Cheers,
Alan.

[chazwicke]

Hey all Dave from the Brick here

I don't really like doing the thinking on line. We'll be able to offer some
great UK proven winners and a good selection of fine English casks that haven't
been anywhere near DC yet in addition to a substantial selection of American
craft brewed casks. A group needs to be formed, a meeting needs to be held. I
would definitely want Thomas Cizauskas involved, Jm Dorsch and Greg Kitsock
are pretty much mandatory in my opinion. Phil too and maybe Joe Gold if he's
interested and we can drag him out of Baltimore. I would think an initial meeting
would not include heads of importing or distributing companys. While they
will of course be extremely helpful and necessary the very nature of their
business would not be in line with matters that first need to be addressed.
Tom, would you like to make a list of those you feel should be at this
meeting and we'll set up a time we can chat, maybe at the round table upstairs at
the Brick on a Tuesday evening when the room is closed?

Cheers to all

[MeridianFC]

Was that Dave responding to you? He made it seem pretty clear he wasn't interested.

[chazwicke]

No most of that was from DC beer discussions. I posted it over here. It does look like there might be some interest.

Any DC Beer folks new here as a result of the postings?

[Derekt2]

Any DC Beer folks new here as a result of the postings?

Yup, me.

[chazwicke]

Excellent!

[MeridianFC]

Chaz is there a link to that site?

[MeridianFC]

I just sent a note to Velez9, the CapCity man, asking him to let us know the next time he has a cask on. I say we get together that night and talk a little treason.........er....hash out some cask fest stuff.

[chazwicke]

http://www.brauhausdc.org/mailman/listinfo/dc-beer


I urge all local DC Realbeer folks to subscribe. Just as I'd really like to see more of the DC beer folks peruse and comment here.

[chazwicke]

Originally posted by MeridianFC
I just sent a note to Velez9, the CapCity man, asking him to let us know the next time he has a cask on. I say we get together that night and talk a little treason.........er....hash out some cask fest stuff.

I was down there last Thursday but had to leave before 6 when the beer is served on the patio.

[MeridianFC]

FWIW I just sent a sawbuck to the Chesapeake SBPW for membership. Hell, $10 bucks ain't nuthin'! I directed their membership guy to this discussion and mentioned some of us wanted to try a fest down here, one that wouldn't compete with their's (or I guess if I become a member, our's).

[chazwicke]

Do you have their subscription info? I probably oughta go ahead and join as well. Strength in numbers.

[MeridianFC]

http://www.spbw.org/

Ooga booga we accept you one of us. ;)

[MeridianFC]

I got a nice E-mail from the SPBW folks. Their next meeting is at Brewers Art August 11 at 7pm.

I volunteered to help with the festival and explained I (we) had an interest in doing one down here, one that did not compete mind, and the gentleman said they might be interested in helping. More cask for everyone I say.

I'll keep y'all apprised.

[chazwicke]

Are you still in OC Meridian?
I'm down for the week.

[MeridianFC]

Last minute change of plans. We'll be down next weekend. Don't think I'm not gonna raid your kegerator in future........................

[Kalleh1]

I want to be a card-carrying CAMRA member! Can I do that, even if I just visit DC? I am the only U.S. member of the Fuller's Club, though!

I was in the DC area for our annual meeting, and I grabbed a free moment and went to the Chop House. What a beautiful cask beer they had...I think it was a bourbon stout, or something similar. I was in heaven. You DCers are very lucky!

[MeridianFC]

Originally posted by Kalleh1
I want to be a card-carrying CAMRA member! Can I do that, even if I just visit DC?

You certainly can. Overseas membership is £22/$39. You get a subscription to a very nice two part newpaper "What's Brewing" & "Beer" and you help keep Real Ale alive. If you visit the UK you can even get discounts in some places (it's rare to be honest but it does exist). You save money on their publications too.

http://www.camra.org.uk/SHWebClass.ASP?WCI=ShowCat&CatID=1

[Kalleh1]

Thank you! I will definitely join!

[chazwicke]

Kalleh, Sorry I missed you on the recent DC trip. I spent a week at the beach. I love the Bourbon Stout at the Chophouse.

And I'd recommend a Life Membership to CAMRA.

[Kalleh1]

Sorry I missed you, too, Chaz. However, this was our annual meeting, and there is not much chance to pub crawl! My job is to keep all our delegates happy...so wine is the drink of choice. :mad:

However, I snuck out one afternoon to go to the National Gallery of Art and by chance found the Chop House. I hadn't even been looking for it, but I remembered it from when we were there. We have a Chop House in Chicago, but they told me that its not the same company. Darn!

I will be in DC again from October 21-25, and I have lots of free time at this conference. Hopefully I will see you then!

[chazwicke]

I look forward to it.