which cleaner/sanitizer to use?

[Ill hophead]

I'm a homebrew newbie looking for some advice. I'm going to order some supplies and wondering which cleaner/sanitizer to use. I'd like to buy in bulk so it's cheaper so I want to get something good if I'm buying a bunch of it. I used Easy Clean for my first batch which is a no-rinse cleaner/sanitizer combo. I think it worked ok and it's not too expensive, but it leaves a slick film unless you rinse which could affect my beer, I don't know that much about it. From what I've read here it sounds like PBW and Star San are the way to go if you can afford it but I'd like to go with something cheaper for now. I'd like to know what everyone uses and get some opinions on the different cleaners, sanitizers, and cleaner/sanitizer combos (C-brite, Easy Clean, Iodophor, PBW, Star San, etc.). Any info is appreciated. Thanks.

[HogieWan]

I use bleach - and rinse with a lot of warm water - [knocking on wood] no infcections yet. It cleans if you use a lot of it and is a great sani, but you HAVE to rinse ALL of it out. At less than $1 a gallon, it's super cheap and always available.

[bruin_ale]

Only problem with bleach of course is the rinsing required. I used a TSP solution for my first batch or two, but switched to start san because I don't have a faucet outside and I was tired of running indoors to rinse things. Also, my sink isn't deep enough to fit a carboy, so I could only rinse in the bathtub, PITA.

Anyways, I'd recommend star san or iodophor. They can be reused over and over if stored properly, so the cost goes a long way. I think I spent about $19 or so on a 32 oz container of star san awhile back and it's still basically full.

PBW is also some great stuff that can be used for quite awhile. It's amazing for cleaning a carboy. That ring around the primary from the krausen is a pain to scrub off, but PBW takes it right off without even scrubbing.

Edted to add: This sounds like an ad for 5 star, so I'll add NAYY.

[YamahaXS]

Originally posted by HogieWan
I use bleach - and rinse with a lot of warm water - [knocking on wood] no infcections yet. It cleans if you use a lot of it and is a great sani, but you HAVE to rinse ALL of it out. At less than $1 a gallon, it's super cheap and always available.

me too. bleach works fine if you are careful to rinse.

/waits to hear how bad bleach is :p

[HogieWan]

Originally posted by YamahaXS
/waits to hear how bad bleach is :p

Are we the only ones using bleach still?

[Fast_Eddy]

I've never had an infected batch and I've used bleach, One Step, Iodophor and Star San.

I am currently using Star San because it is effective, easy to use, re-usable, and rinse free.

[HogieWan]

Originally posted by Fast_Eddy
I am currently using Star San because it is effective, easy to use, re-usable, and rinse free.

I might switch to star san (sorry yamaha)- how many times can you reuse it?

[Grog]

I use PBW & Sani-clean (non-foaming Star San). I used bleach for years but rinsing sucks.

I have sanitized 4 carboys in a row with Star San (before I switched) and have sanitized 2 batches of bottles with 32oz of the stuff. I have used about 48 oz of Sani-clean for (12) ten gallon batches includes bottles, kegs, carboys and various sundry items.

I think the solution becomes unusable when it becomes milky white, but don't hold me to that.

BTW - Vinyl hose and Star San don't mix!

[danno]

Originally posted by YamahaXS
me too. bleach works fine if you are careful to rinse.

/waits to hear how bad bleach is :p it's not that bleach is bad, it just that rinsing can completely and utterly negate your sanitation efforts... just unscrew the screen from your kitchen sink, take a good look at it, and report back... a biologist I know says that if you're going to rinse after sanitizing, you may as well just drag your stuff through the dirt...

[bruin_ale]

You used a whole 32 oz on two batches of bottles? what did you spray pure starsan into the bottles?? I'd think an oz or two at most would be enough for every bottle I've got.

Yeah, I make a new batch of sani when it gets cloudy and I only leave vinyl tubing in a for a short period of time (~15-20 minutes)

[Grog]

Sorry, I meant the diluted Star San. 1 oz per 5 gallon. I keep about a 1/2 a gallon mixed up for spray bottles and the like.

[bruin_ale]

Ahh.. that makes more sense :)

[YamahaXS]

Originally posted by danno
it's not that bleach is bad, it just that rinsing can completely and utterly negate your sanitation efforts... just unscrew the screen from your kitchen sink, take a good look at it, and report back... a biologist I know says that if you're going to rinse after sanitizing, you may as well just drag your stuff through the dirt...

Honestly, I don't see that as an accurate representation.

In 10 years of brewing and using bleach and rinsing i have never had an infection. Not too long ago, before no-rinse solutions were marketed to homebrewers, bleach was standard operating procedure.

Perhaps the water here in Madison is cleaner than most, and I am lucky by circumstance alone.

Would I use bleach if I was running a brewpub? absolutely not...mainly because rinsing is inefficient. But on a small scale its no big deal, IMO.

[danno]

Originally posted by YamahaXS
Honestly, I don't see that as an accurate representation.
well I'll admit that perhaps the last statement (dragging though the dirt) is a a bit of an exaggeration, but I still stand by the assertion that you're taking a risk by using unsanitized water to rinse off your sanitized surfaces. it very well may be a small risk, as your experience has taught you, but it's a risk nonetheless, and that's what I was trying to point out...

[haaseg]

I don't know about unsanitized water though... Most municiple waters contain chlorine, which I believe is the primary ingredient in chlorine bleach.

I've been using iodophor as of late, mostly because it's inexpensive and because of the no-rinse portion. My brother uses bleach and has been for about 10 years.

I'm interested in hearing more about recycling of star-san. After you mix it into solution and use it, where do you keep it? About how long will it keep? Is it a couple of days or a couple of weeks or a couple of months? I have a couple of 5-gallon plastic buckets laying around that might just be perfect for this sort of thing.

[guildofevil]

I use bleach for most of my equipment but onestep for bottles.
The reason for this is that rinsing bottles is a pain in the ass but onestep is expensive as I have to ship it in from the US.
I have never had an infection either.

Has anyone ever used a steam cleaner for sanitisation? I have a steamer which is designed for the removal of wallpaper and was considering trying it out on bottles once I get it back from the people who borrowed it.

Séan

[HogieWan]

Originally posted by guildofevil
I use bleach for most of my equipment but onestep for bottles.

That makes a lot of sense - I may start doing that.

Originally posted by guildofevil
I have a steamer which is designed for the removal of wallpaper and was considering trying it out on bottles once I get it back from the people who borrowed it.

You might have to steam each bottle for too long to make this feasible.

[guildofevil]

How long would I have to steam each bottle for?

Séan

[HogieWan]

I would call on brewmonkey for the answer to that one - he has answer similar questions about boiling for sanitation before. Maybe PM him with the question and ask that he post his response here for the rest of us to read.

[Fast_Eddy]

Originally posted by HogieWan
I would call on brewmonkey for the answer to that one - he has answer similar questions about boiling for sanitation before. Maybe PM him with the question and ask that he post his response here for the rest of us to read.

Somewhere I remember reading that baking bottles in the oven is one way to sanitize them.

I found it...

http://www.howtobrew.com/section1/chapter2-2-3.html

[toneyc]

Originally posted by haaseg
I'm interested in hearing more about recycling of star-san. After you mix it into solution and use it, where do you keep it? About how long will it keep? Is it a couple of days or a couple of weeks or a couple of months? I have a couple of 5-gallon plastic buckets laying around that might just be perfect for this sort of thing. [/B]

I have kept star-san for months. It is reuseable as long as the pH is below 3 (I think its 3, somebody confirm?). I have heard that Iodophor starts breaking down within 24 hours and is therefore not reuseable from batch to batch.

Edit: I am not sure that I would store it in plastic buckets. I know that it forms a snot-like film on vinyl tubing if you let the tubing sit in it overnight, which turns a kegorator into a perfect foam dispenser. I dunno if it would do the same thing in a plastic bucket or not. I use a glass carboy as I rarely have all my carboys full. In fact, mine are all dusty right now.

:)
Toney.

[evilredlight]

I have baked bottles in the past, and i broke 3 on bottling day.
I think it significantly weakens the bottles!