Why do all my beers have that sour taste?

[chcook]

I've brewed about 5 beers. They have all had a, what I would describe as, a sour, yeast-like taste. It's overbearing and ruins the beer. I've been very careful with sanitation. Fermenting temps have not been eratic. (Used an ale yeast on each one).

I did have one batch that I had "better" luck with. With my current batch I've only had two (2) bottles out of one case so far that didn't seem affected.

I've got a beginner set....6 gal plastic bucket, 1 glass carboy, etc. At first I thought I was letting it ferment long past any real fermentation was taking place. Someone labeld me a "bubble watcher" and suggested I pay more attention to the specific gravity. So, I started monitering the fermentation process by spec. gravity. When the s.g. arrived at target (or really close) I bottled. The process then would only last about a week from boil to bottle.

The yeast has been as much as a few weeks old when it arrives to just a couple of days.

Help! I really like this hobby. But if homemade beer tastes this way, you'll be seeing my equipment up for sale soon.

Thanks,
Christian

[b3s]

an acidic/sour taste and smell (kinda vinegarry) is usually caused by bacterial infection due to improper sanitization. that doesn't sound like what you are experiencing, but i thought i'd throw that out there.

a yeasty taste usually is caused by too much yeast or solids in suspension. try using some irish moss in the last 15 minutes of the boil and/or some finings after fermentation is complete (1/2 t. gelatin dissolved in 1/2 C boiled water for every five gallons of beer a day or two before bottling). i use irish moss and my beer is a lot clearer now, i have not used gelatin or other finings, but am considering it.

[chcook]

Thanks for your reply.

I've used irish moss on the last two batches. The instructions call for a very little bit...only about 1 tsp I think. Perhaps I should use more.

Although I feel I sanitize things well, I'm not ruling that problem out.

Also, I saw on this site that some others are having the same problem. The suggestion there was to let things settle longer...ie 5 to 6 weeks in the bottle before drinking. I hadn't thought of that. Patience is not one of my strong points.

Also, here's another question. When I add the priming sugar just before bottling, doesn't this provide food for the yeast, which I'm assuming helps them multiply? So, taking the yeast out (flocking is it?) before bottling is defeated when we add priming sugar.

[centercounter]

I haven't brewed in quite some time, but I've never had patience either, and never had sour beer. But I have always been near fanatical about sanitation. I'd leave bottles in the bleach water for a week, same with anything that came in contact with my beer.

Not being a true "expert" and not having used Irish moss more than on one batch, I can't speak on that topic. But if you go overboard on the sanitation, I believe the problem may go away. If you have a plastic container, remember there are miniscule "scratch" areas where bacteria can hide from normal washing inside the container.

Chuck

Originally posted by chcook
Thanks for your reply.

I've used irish moss on the last two batches. The instructions call for a very little bit...only about 1 tsp I think. Perhaps I should use more.

Although I feel I sanitize things well, I'm not ruling that problem out.

Also, I saw on this site that some others are having the same problem. The suggestion there was to let things settle longer...ie 5 to 6 weeks in the bottle before drinking. I hadn't thought of that. Patience is not one of my strong points.

Also, here's another question. When I add the priming sugar just before bottling, doesn't this provide food for the yeast, which I'm assuming helps them multiply? So, taking the yeast out (flocking is it?) before bottling is defeated when we add priming sugar.

[b3s]

i use about 2 t of irish moss...one per boil pot, each pot with 3 gallons of wort. also, i tend to go 1 week in the primary and 2-3 weeks in the secondary, then 2 weeks in the bottle...perhaps letting things go longer in the bottle will help...otoh, i get impatient too, so maybe finings will help ya out.

have not had a sour beer yet, knock on formica.

[Tom C]

I have to agree that one week from boil to bottle is waaaaay to fast. I also allow my ales to ferment in a primary and after4-5 days I transfer to a secondary for at least 2 weeks then bottle...but now into kegging. When you drink it out of the bottle do you leave a little at the bottom and not allow the dormant yeast into your glass? This too could cause off flavors when drinking. I would gather though that most of your problems lie within not allowing the beer to mature though.

Tom C

[chcook]

Thanks for everyone's input. I'm at least glad to see that I'm not the only one that has experienced this problem (as I saw on another thread).

I leave anywhere from about .5 to 1.0 inches in the bottle when I pour, and I do it very slowly.

I'll keep workin' on it.

Thanks Again,
Christian

[Fast_Eddy]

Originally posted by chcook
Thanks for your reply.

I've used irish moss on the last two batches. The instructions call for a very little bit...only about 1 tsp I think. Perhaps I should use more.......

....So, taking the yeast out (flocking is it?) before bottling is defeated when we add priming sugar.

Irish Moss is used to help remove proteins from the wort prior to fermentation so its use(or not) is probably not relelvant to this problem. Said proteins primarily contribute to haze problems not taste problems. So you should continute to use the amount specified by your recipe..

When you say your beer has a sour taste - do you mean tart? Like mouth puckering? How about a sample of your last batches recipe?

[paul84043]

I have to agree with one of the above posts, 1 week from boil to bottle is way to fast, even for me! It's probably just very raw beer you're tasting, I'm surprised you haven't made several cases of bombs yet!
Even the fastest ales are at least 2 to 3 weeks in the fermenter and 3 weeks in the bottle. Most take a bit longer than that, some alot longer!

The "tart" flavor is something I have encountered before, what types of beer have you been making? Ales will usually have a Fruity flavor, but I have only had the "tart" flavor on the higher gravity beers. And those are the ones that will take longer to brew...

[BluesHarp]

You mentioned using SG as an indicator, but said you bottle at or near your "target" gravity. Be sure to wait until the beer is at a steady gravity for at least two days, regardless of what you feel your target should be. I agree that your beer probably isn't quite done.

[chcook]

For the one who requested a sample of my last recipe, it's below. Probably more detail than you wanted, but I copied it from by "beer diary." Also, thanks for the brush-up on the use of Irish moss.

It's really an excellent stout (a little sweet) with chocolote and coffee tones. (whenever I find a bottle that's not sour/yeasty)

And gentlemen, please forgive me for not mentioning this in the beginning. I didn't mean to mislead anyone, but my earlier beers were left in primary and secondary fermentation stages for upwards of 1.5 weeks and 4 weeks, plus or minus several days. Perhaps they STILL needed more time in the bottle? (was two weeks) Anyway, you all have me thinking. This website is great!

4/21/2003
Deep Woods Stout
5.5gal
Ozarka Spring from Mignosis
Irish Liquid-1084
9.3lbs Dark Malt Extract-Liquid
2oz Fuggles Bittering hops
1oz Willamette aroma hops
1/2lb Crystal 80L
1/2lb Black Barley Grain blend

45min + heat up time
Steeped for 30 min from cold
66
Primary--3.5 days
Secondary--3.0 days
Target SG--1017/1012??
Initia SG--1062
End SG--1020
Bottled--4/27/2003
Corn/remainder fr. other bags--hopefully the same type/little more than 3/4 cup.
Alcohol %--5.75

Notes--Really liked the first batch of Deep Woods Stout so tried another. Started 8.5% reading, sugar content at 16--finished at 5. (Note: to Rack to 2ndary when fermentation 3/4 to target, which is about 1.0245.) Spoke with Homebrew HQ in DAL. He said Target SG (starting??) can be determined by SC X Yeast attenuation %, which should come with the yeast. On 4/24/ @ 12pm SG=1.052. On 4/26/ @1331 SG=1.020 @72F. So far temp range has been from 68-72. 4/27/2003-Final SG=1.020 @72F.

[Fast_Eddy]

Originally posted by chcook
It's really an excellent stout (a little sweet) with chocolote and coffee tones. (whenever I find a bottle that's not sour/yeasty)

And gentlemen, please forgive me for not mentioning this in the beginning. I didn't mean to mislead anyone, but my earlier beers were left in primary and secondary fermentation stages for upwards of 1.5 weeks and 4 weeks, plus or minus several days. Perhaps they STILL needed more time in the bottle? (was two weeks) Anyway, you all have me thinking. This website is great!

4/21/2003
Deep Woods Stout
5.5gal
Ozarka Spring from Mignosis
Irish Liquid-1084
9.3lbs Dark Malt Extract-Liquid
2oz Fuggles Bittering hops
1oz Willamette aroma hops
1/2lb Crystal 80L
1/2lb Black Barley Grain blend

45min + heat up time
Steeped for 30 min from cold
66
Primary--3.5 days
Secondary--3.0 days



The 4 weeks in secondary might be a little long. Definitely the 3.5/3.0 days was too short. With only 6.5 days of fermenting you wouldn't need any corn sugar to bottle because you're actually spunding. How long is your boil? Is that the "45min + heat up time" part of the recipe?

To me yeasty and sour are two different tastes. When you say your beer has a sour taste - do you mean tart? Like mouth puckering? Or sour like soured milk?

Oh wait...I wonder if it could be your bottles/bottling. If it varies from bottle to bottle that makes sense. Maybe you need some new hose for racking or your bottling bucket is infected. Or maybe your bottles are infected or have residual "bugs" in them.

[paul84043]

Yes, varying from bottle to bottle is a completely different thing...it points at your bottling/sanitizing process and not particularly the beer itself..

[BucksBrew]

My two cents!

I cook the beer, cool it, rack to primary usually for a week. Then off to the seconday for at least a week. I check the Gravity any time I rack it. Once it is steady, I'm ready to bottle (kegging from now on). Once in the bottle I let it age at room temp for 4-6 weeks. The IPA I made is crystal clear when I pour it.

I drank young beer and it has a green flavor to it, kinda funky.

Take more time between steps and let it age. IMO

[b3s]

my process is similar to buck's. i do beer work on sundays typically. i rack to secondary the sunday after the krausen falls. i bottle the sunday after either two weeks or hydro readings are consisten (and really low), which ever is later.

[wortchillergoal]

You did not say how long you were letting tje beer sit in the fermenter when you were having the problem. If you let a beer sit on its yeast bed or trub for to long, it can pick up the flavors you described. Drinking to fast after bottling will produce the same.

[chcook]

Originally posted by wortchillergoal
You did not say how long you were letting tje beer sit in the fermenter when you were having the problem. If you let a beer sit on its yeast bed or trub for to long, it can pick up the flavors you described. Drinking to fast after bottling will produce the same.

At first, I thought this was my problem. But the times the wort has stayed in the fermenters has varied considerably... 7 days to about 6 weeks. I have the same problem either way.

That yeasty ( and I believe I should say "tart" too) flavor strongly resembles the smell in the primary fermenter after I've racked it to secondary. Ya know, that very strong smell of all the yeast and sediment in the bottom.

On the other hand, I've been using the BTF solutions to clean my equipment and bottles. Maybe I'm not letting it soak long enough (although I think I remember the directions saying only 2 or 5 minutes are needed). Or maybe I'm not rinsing well enough.

I think I should start using the heat from dishwasher to sanitize again.

Based on everyone's feedback, It sounds like I need to let things ferment/settle longer though, regardless. And, probably wait longer after bottling before drinking.

Thanks for sticking with this thread and walking me through this.

Christian

[chcook]

Yes, the recipe's all called for a boil time not to exceed 60 minutes. Is this typically what you guys see?

[b3s]

i often exceed 60 minute boils. sometimes i want to do extra hopping for bitterness.

technically, however, all the wort needs is the hot break and it is done. most of the boil time is transferring aau's from the hops to the wort.