First Time Kegging Questions.

[BucksBrew]

Hello all, I've read so many different ways to keg, prime with corn sugar at the same 5-gallon rate, reduced rates of 1/3 cup, force carbonate without sugar, etc, etc....I guess I will explain what I want and all can answer please!

1. I want the best beer I can make naturally.

2. Do I add priming sugar or not? I think yes, but how much?

3. I don't think I want to shake my keg, or force carbonate.

4. I think I should prime with sugar, add CO2, purge 4 times, but at what rate?

5. Do I age the beer? If yes, how much pressure should I have in the corny keg?

6. Do I age at room temp (Ale)? Or stick it in the fridge? I'm thinking if I prime and keg I should age it like bottled beer at room temp for 4 weeks or so. I dunno?

7. Initial CO2 pressure to seal lid is at what? I've seen 30lbs. Then do I leave it at 30 or take it down to 6-8 lbs.

8. I purchased a reconditioned cleaned keg, do I need to take apart to sanitize? Should I add CO2 and run sanitizer thru pop up's and lines as well?

I know alot of questions! But I don't want to ruin my beer either! Thanks!

Joe

[toneyc]

To sanitize the keg, just run sanitizer through it and the beer lines. Remember to run clean water through it to push the sanitizer out the beer lines. If you don't want to force carbonate, then yes, you will need to add priming sugar. Basically, just as you say in #4. Seal with 20-30 psi, then drop it to 6 or 8 and purge a few times. The corn sugar will pressurize and carbonate the beer, so 6 psi should be more than sufficient starting pressure. Then age ales at room temp for as long as you can stand it, then chill to desired serving temp for a couple of days before serving. With priming sugar, the first couple of draws may be chunky, but after that they should be fine. Then maintain a serving pressure that doesn't cause too much foam. That differs depending on hose size, length, tap/faucet type, beer type, and how you hold your tongue when serving, so it may take a little experimentation to find the right pressure. You'll never go back to bottles!

:) Toney.

[BucksBrew]

Toney, Thanks! One question though on the corn sugar is how much do I use? The same amout that I would use to bottle with or a reduced amount? I'm reading different things on this.

Thanks again!

Joe

[toneyc]

I dunno, I force carbonate, but I assume it would be the same amount you would use for bottling. Same amount of beer, same amount of priming sugar.

:) Toney.

[fuji6100]

From everything I've read on bottling vs. kegging, I've read that kegging takes less. Something to do with headspace differences, surface area of the containers, ect ect. I think I read that 1/3 cup would do it.

I use the tap-a-draft system which uses 6L PET bottles. I use 1 heaping Tablespoon of corn sugar per PET (a 5 gallon batch fills up 3 almost perfectly) bottle and mine carbinate just fine. Assuming that a heaping tablespoon is just over 1/2 a fluid ounce, then the combined sugar I use for bottling with those is around 2 ounces (1/4 cup)

I'm pretty sure for a 5 gallon corney it's somewhere around 1/3 cup though, I just can't remember for the life of me where I read that. Perhaps some of the others that actually use corneys on a regular basis can confirm.

[BucksBrew]

Thanks, I saw a kegging thread on here somewhere and I think I saw 1/3 cup was typically used, since draft beer is less carbonated. Which is fine for me. It seems that I can carbonate more with the CO2 if I had to. Although I'm not certain of that.

My batch of beer stalled anyhow, I'll add some dry yeast tomorrow nite to reactivate to get the FG DOWN!!!!!

1.05 to 1.0245 I need it down alot lower to make me happy.

[Fast_Eddy]

I've tried both ways of carbonating in the keg and you can definitely get more consistent results by force carbonating. You should give a try before deciding against it.

[danno]

Joe, it looks like everyone else hit the high points, just wanted to add one more tidbit... Colder beer absorbs more co2, so if you carbonate at room temp (which you can do if you don't have fridge space, works just the same...), you need more pressure than if you carbonate at serving temp... here's a link for a temp/pressure chart...

temp, PSI, and resulting co2 volumes (http://www.brewingtechniques.com/library/backissues/issue2.1/millertable.html)

I also found this chart:

-------------------------------------------
Beer style Volumes CO2
-------------------------------------------
British-style ales 1.5 - 2.0
Porter, stout 1.7 - 2.3
Belgian ales 1.9 - 2.4
European lagers 2.2 - 2.7
American ales & lagers 2.2 - 2.7
Lambic 2.4 - 2.8
Fruit lambic 3.0 - 4.5
German wheat beer 3.3 - 4.5
-------------------------------------------

hope this helps some...

[BucksBrew]

Danno,

Thanks for the info. Going from bottling to kegging is a new learning curve.

I guess when it comes time to keg I'll use this chart!

Thanks again

Joe

[Nacho]

I force carbonated my first batch of red ale, and was extremely satisfied. The lhbs owner "suggested" that I try carbonating naturally in the keg, as it will provide smoother flavors.

So I took his advice, and naturally carbonated 2 additional batches (brown and amber) using 1/2 cup dextrose. After just over 2 weeks in the keg, the brown was TOTALLY flat - and the taste was altered significantly (slight butterscotch - O NO). I am afraid for the amber ale, and most importantly my belgian golden ale which as of today, tastes perfect (in secondary, will keg or bottle today).

I am force carbonating my fat tire clone (no resemblance to the original, but o well) as I must have something to drink now that the brown is going down the drain. I may still try to carbonate the belgian naturally, but I'm not sure.

I have never really been able to get natural carbonation down right. When I originally started homebrewing (when I was 19), I only managed to get 1 out of 3 batches to carbonate. Do people have mixed results with different yeasts? For instance, would a high flocculating yeast be more prone to flat beers than a low flocculating yeast? Also, to those who carbonate naturally in the keg, do you keg immediately after primary? I have been allowing 1 week in primary and 2 weeks in secondary before kegging. The beers have all been extremely clear without the use of any clarifiers or cold conditioning.

O well. Im still learning. So I guess I'll just make another batch.

TO THE LHBS!!!!!!

nAcho

[blzrfn]

Originally posted by Nacho
I force carbonated my first batch of red ale, and was extremely satisfied. The lhbs owner "suggested" that I try carbonating naturally in the keg, as it will provide smoother flavors.

So I took his advice, and naturally carbonated 2 additional batches (brown and amber) using 1/2 cup dextrose. After just over 2 weeks in the keg, the brown was TOTALLY flat - and the taste was altered significantly (slight butterscotch - O NO). I am afraid for the amber ale, and most importantly my belgian golden ale which as of today, tastes perfect (in secondary, will keg or bottle today).

I am force carbonating my fat tire clone (no resemblance to the original, but o well) as I must have something to drink now that the brown is going down the drain. I may still try to carbonate the belgian naturally, but I'm not sure.

I have never really been able to get natural carbonation down right. When I originally started homebrewing (when I was 19), I only managed to get 1 out of 3 batches to carbonate. Do people have mixed results with different yeasts? For instance, would a high flocculating yeast be more prone to flat beers than a low flocculating yeast? Also, to those who carbonate naturally in the keg, do you keg immediately after primary? I have been allowing 1 week in primary and 2 weeks in secondary before kegging. The beers have all been extremely clear without the use of any clarifiers or cold conditioning.

O well. Im still learning. So I guess I'll just make another batch.

TO THE LHBS!!!!!!

nAcho


If you used dextrose then that would be your problem since it is only about 10% fermentable. When priming you should use something that is really fermentable like corn sugar, DME, honey, or even brown sugar. I personally prefer force carbonation because there is no yeast build up and I can control the amount of disolved CO2.

Dextrose is mainly used to increase body in your homebrew, which explains the pronounced butterscotch flavor. Also the higher flocculant your beer is the longer it will take to condition (natural corbonation).

[Nacho]

But I thought dextrose was corn sugar? Nonetheless, I will definitely force carbonate the belgian (the golden belgian ale from http://www.weekendbrewer.com/Beer%20Recipe_files/Beer%20Recipes_files/Belgian%20Golden%20Ale.htm) as it really tastes great - almost as good as the saison from Pizza Port in solana beach. I actually rushed the belgian. Only 4 days in primary, and 10 in secondary, and I'd say its as good as it's gonna get.

I'm gonna try and brew another red today, but I'm gonna do 1 week in primary, then straight to the keg with dme, just to get the results. I will be moving to all grain (and 10gal batches) when I move in 3 weeks, cuz I'll have a garage (for the first time since childhood) and I can make even bigger messes and have 2 more freezers. Then I will be force carbonating 5 gal. after 2 weeks in secondary, and attempting to bottle the rest after a good primary (we'll see).

Any more advice?

nAcho.

[blzrfn]

Good call, I was thinking of Malto-Dextrin which I supplemented for Lactose in an Oatmeal Stout recipe. Way too many toses to keep track of. DOH! :cool:

[danno]

even if you naturally carbonate, you need to give a splash of co2 to seal the lid at the beginning, or you may lose all the subsequent naturally occurring co2...

I just hook up the co2, leave it at 10 psi, and let it "naturally" :D absorb over the course of a week or so.

[BucksBrew]

My first batch that I kegged didn't reach full attenuation. So I purposely added corn sugar to naturally ferment in the keg to get that extra 1/4% alc. content.

Tell me if I'm doing this right. I added the corn sugar and hit the tank with 30lbs. of pressure to seal the lid. Then purged and left 30lbs of pressure in there. I am leaving at room temp for 3-4 weeks then I will stick in fridge.

If it is flat then I will cross that bridge when I get to it!

[Fast_Eddy]

IMO 30 lbs is way too much...you really only need enough to seal the lid (eg 5 lbs or so). At 30 lbs you'll be force carbonating and natural carbonating....

[Nacho]

Originally posted by danno
even if you naturally carbonate, you need to give a splash of co2 to seal the lid at the beginning, or you may lose all the subsequent naturally occurring co2...

I sealed the keg at approx. 10psi. I was told not to pressurize TOO high as it could kill the yeast (above 35psi not recommended). I was also told to make sure that the kegs are at the same or higher temperature than fermentation. I keep them in the same area as my secondaries, however they seem cooler. Maybe its the metal kegs. Should I try to heat them to a certain temperature? I should probably stick a couple of fermometers on my cornies.

I hope to god that I am not doing the same thing incorrectly.

nAcho

[BucksBrew]

Thanks, I'll let some air out and check it out tonight!

[danno]

Joe, I wouldn't worry about it. Fat Eddy is correct, 30 psi is probably overkill to seal the lid. However, it will absorb into the beer in short order, so It's probably balanced out already...

Nacho, if the temp is cooler, it will just take longer to carbonate, just like bottling individually.

I'm still awaiting Tweek's side by side experiment on force vs. natural carbonation, but until proven otherwise I'm thoroughly convinced we won't be able to tell the difference. And have I mentioned lately how easy it is to hook up the gas, set the regulator and forget it for a week? No sediment, perfect carbonation for your style of beer...

[vendejp]

this article...
clicky clicky (http://www.brewingtechniques.com/library/backissues/issue2.1/miller.html#return)

.... says "First, chill the beer to near the freezing point before racking it into the keg"

huh? Do I put my whole fermenting bucket in the fridge after its fully fermented?

when bottling beer, you leave it out for a few weeks to ferment and mellow out..... will the beer "mellow" or become "less green" in the keg in a fridge for a few weeks?

Also, since the 5 gal kegs have the tube that goes to the bottom of the keg, is there a problem with getting yeast in your first beers?

And finally.... how do you get the sanitizer through the tubes in the keg and such?

edit - ohh, one more question.... i have a dedicated fridge with a 1/2 keg of commercial (ewww) beer. can i put a 3 way splitter on the CO2 line and have 2 - 5 gallon kegs of home brew? will the pressure need adjusted or will this mess up the commercial or home brew? ..... gracias

Thanks for your help to a first time poster.

[toneyc]

I think the reason the article recommends chilling the beer to near freezing is to encourage any remaining yeast to drop out of suspension. I don't bother with this, if I feel my beer is not clear enough, I'll leave in secondary for another week. I put my kegs in the fridge immediately after filling them although I have heard from folks here that it is ok to leave them out for a week or two to further condition. They do condition in the fridge, though. As for sanitizer, I fill my keg with Iodophor solution then press the poppet valve to allow the solution to fill the tube. When I empty the solution out of the keg, I press the poppet vavle again to allow the solution to drain from the tube. If you are cleaning you hoses at the same time, you can fill the keg with sanitizer and hook up the co2 and dispense sanitizer through the hoses. They're harder to drain, though. You can sometimes get yeast in your pour for the first pint or two, but after that, it usually isn't a problem. And finally, yes, you can build or buy a manifold to use your co2 on multiple kegs. I have only done this once. I had one keg that didn't seal very well and had to go get my tank refilled the next day. Now I just give each keg a shot of co2 daily and that allows me to see which kegs need a little extra attention to sealing. I only run 5 or 6 six kegs at a time and it only takes a minute to check them each day while getting a pint of fresh beer. I love this hobby.

:)
Toney.

[vendejp]

thanks a lot toney.... sounds simple enough.

you say you have 5-6 kegs going at a time. do you have that many co2 tanks if you dont split the line?

I was thinking something like this....

air splitter (http://www.beveragefactory.com/draftbeer/regulators/img-751018.html)

then you can shut off the other two when sealing a keg or force carbonating, then set the psi back to serving pressure and open up the other 2 lines (and hopefully the same pressure for all 3 beers works).

[danno]

vendejp: the reason you cool to near feezing is that co2 is more soluble at colder temps... it's much more important if your counterpressure bottle filling than racking to a keg. it's a must for the former, but uneccesary, like Toneyc said, for racking to a keg...

here's a pic (http://www.boomspeed.com/danno/manifold1.jpg) of my homemade manifold, in case you haven't seen it already. It's mounted under the lid of my chest freezer...

[vendejp]

thanks danno.... you pretty much fabricated one of those splitters.... looks nice! where are your faucets? i dont see holes through the lid for a tower faucet. are they out the side?

[toneyc]

No, I just use one co2 tank at a time, I just unhook the gas QuickDisconnect when not in use.

On the subject of towers, I used a tower for a couple of weeks, but they're a bear to clean and I'm a lazy bugger, so now I just use the picnic taps. One for each keg and I can just dump them into a bucket of hot water to clean them. In fact, that's one of my projects this weekend is to remove the tower off the top of my chest freezer and seal up the hole. Anybody want a used two headed tower? Not sure I'll get to it this weekend, though, its kinda low on the list...

:)
Toney.

[croc4]

Toneyc,

I am looking for a two head tower, do you have a pic? and what $ are you thinking of?

I just got my keg yesterday, cleaned it today and will be getting co2 tomorrow.
So I am very new to the whole keg thing, but a tower sounds cool.


croc4
________
GracefulDoll (http://www.girlcamfriend.com/cam/GracefulDoll/)

[danno]

Josh, I built a collar, and since my lid hinges are integrated into the freezer itself, I ended up with a wedge design... pic (http://www.boomspeed.com/danno/collar1.jpg)

[vendejp]

very cool... thanks, i see how you did it.... i browsed to this pic, and thats an interesting way of handling the chest freezer without drilling holes.



thanks
clicky (http://www.boomspeed.com/danno/collar.jpg)