What "good" beer have you tried and absolutely hated?

[Brewdepest]

We've all been gipped. You go to the store, or in a bar, and you wanna try something new, something you've never even seen or heard of before. So there it is, and it's pricey enough that you think, "Well, if they're gonna charge that for it, it better be good."

Then you can even choke down the whole bottle/pint.

For me, it was Black Hawk Stout. Bought a sixer, choked down two in a week, gave the others away. Nobody else finished a whole bottle. Now we jokingly call it "Black Hawk Down."
The liquor store dropped it within a month.

[hopjack13]

well ..........i was in palm springs a few weeks back and me and my bro decided to go to the beer hunter for dinner. now i know what lambics are and how they're made but have never tried one.
im in to too many other beer styles right now to get started on another kick. but i decided i wanted to try something "new" so i saw a lambic ....leadermens or something like that it said , and that was all it said. so i told my waitress i'd have one of those.
when it arrived i noticed it was a rasberry beer....uhg i thought , im not one for flavored beer, beer is the flavor i prefer. anyway i thought i'd give it a try before i made up my mind about it's integrity. it tasted like rasberry juice! the rasberry came through really potently , then it finished with an after taste i had never experianced before (i contributed that to the lambic style i guess)
wasn't a bad finish but the rasberry was too over powering , just couldn't choke that one down. i felt bad because my brother paid like 6 bones i think for it , but being my bro he understood and ordered me an old ras. ...ugh , that terrible beer still haunts my pallet to this day!!!

[ray m]

I started a thread about my bad experience in the Homebrewing section. A couple of weeks ago I was vacationing in Yellowstone. At one of the lodges there, they had a pretty decent beer list from some microbreweries in the region. I am always adventurous when it comes to trying obscure beers I've never had before. I opted to try Teton Brewing's Bitch Creek ESB. Jesus Christ, did I regret it. This beer was just way, way too hoppy for an ESB---to make matters worse, I think the brewery had to have utilized some super-mutant Cascade hop strain. I really don't think I finished one-third of the bottle. It reminded my of a terrible batch of beer that my neighbor brewed last summer---that was supposed to be a Bulldog Strong Ale clone---it was drinking a bottle full of hops.

[quantum24]

for me... id have to say sam adams triple bock. now i love biiiiig beers, as well a odd beers (dfh world wide stout, comes to mind) but this was just not good. tasted like soy sauce, tasted really like soy sauce. (and by the way ive got six left) oh well i guess...

[hopjack13]

i'll second that quantum..i tried the triple bock and thought i got a bad bottle.....nope thats the way it's suppose to be someone told me ....hurl,ralph,barf and puke. that beer sucked !!!!

[fretlessman71]

So send a few out for the rest of us to hate as well! If we send you the postage, would you do it? :)

[steveh]

Stella Artois. This beer was a big rage in the Chi area a couple years ago - it was even getting onto taps in some of the most blue collar places. Knowing the likes of Belgian beers such as Hoegarten and Pierre Cellis' later brews, I opted to give it a chance. What a lackluster brew - it was completely ho-hum, and now I know why it was popular among those who wanted to *look* like beer connoisseurs.

S.

[Brewdepest]

I tried the Lambic two weeks ago myself because I have a friend who really loves the stuff, and I came to the same conclusion. Maybe a hint of raspberry would be ok, but that was just waaay too much. Very disappointing for the price tag. I notice a lot of other chicks dig that beer, especially ones that aren't big beer fans.

[Borrachito]

I’ve tried several great beers in the past that I either could not or just barely got down my throat. But in time, sometimes years later, I’ve retried these beers and thought - why haven’t I been drinking this stuff. Belgium beers are a good example. For a while, I couldn’t drink the Belgium golden ale. I felt like it tasted too much like Bazooka Joe Bubble Gum. Now I love the stuff.

[Payson]

Regarding the Lindemans Framboise I would have to say I love it. Let me qualify my statement however, I love the fact that a beer this diverse can actually be produced. It is made in an almost reverential atmosphere. The hell with all of the "flavored" beers. This is the real McCoy. Nothing but real raspberry. If you think of it more like a wine it's quite good.

[Theakston]

Really liked Victory beers and I couldn't wait to try these when they showed up in my local store in 75 cl bottles. Both of them tasted like vinegar. I later found (on rate beer) that it is common knowledge these had been infected when they first started with the large bottles. I't's a shame they didn't try and recall them especially as they are so expensive. I still see them on sale from the same batch!! (bottled date is September 12th 2002)

[b3s]

dogfish head immort ale...blech...tasted like fish scales were part of the reciped. reminded me of the time we caught dogfish on the mississippi (that fish tastes terrible!). two thumbs down, here. my fianceé likes it, but i can't stand it.

and yeah, it was fresh.

[BluesHarp]

Originally posted by Brewdepest
I tried the Lambic two weeks ago myself because I have a friend who really loves the stuff, and I came to the same conclusion. Maybe a hint of raspberry would be ok, but that was just waaay too much. Very disappointing for the price tag. I notice a lot of other chicks dig that beer, especially ones that aren't big beer fans.

Interesting...the few Lambics I have tried were very tart, most women couldn't begin to appreciate them.
They are not my favorite style, but I feel a responsibility to have one every now and then.

[guzzler67]

One beer that I know a lot of enthusiasts like is the Anderson Valley Winter Solstice seasonal ale. For me, though, the vanilla was just too overpowering to be enjoyable.
I guess that varieties in taste is what keeps our world interesting.

[Dr J]

I had big disagreements with Barney Flats Oatmeal Stout. But what do I know?

[fidcastro]

The only lambics that taste like raspberry are the "frambozens." THere are many other fruit and berry flavored lambics, but don't count lambics out in general unless you've had a straight lambic. I myself don't particularly care for the flavored variety (although my wife loves the cassis ones) but I really like Rose de Gambrinus.

My two cents...

[fidcastro]

Oh yah.

One beer that was highly recommended to me is Hop Ottin IPA. I normally like really hoppy beers, but this one is just wrong. It has a nasty overpoering aroma, and a bad aftertaste that lasts about a week.

Blahgh.

[BluesHarp]

Hop Ottin? My local guy is waiting on a case...I'm going to try it anyway...how does it compare to "Alpha King" or New Glarus "Hop Hearty"?

[QCbeerguy]

Two "good" beers come to mind. The first St. Pauli Girl beer, wretched. The second is Spotted Cow by New Glarus Brewing in New Glarus, WI. It was a total disappointment, a poor larger. What makes it even more disappointing is that the rest of their beers are absolutly outstanding. Especially the cherry and Native ales.

[fidcastro]

Originally posted by BluesHarp
Hop Ottin? My local guy is waiting on a case...I'm going to try it anyway...how does it compare to "Alpha King" or New Glarus "Hop Hearty"?

I haven't had either of those. I'm not sure if they are available in my area, but I'll check. I hope you have beeter luck with HO than I did. Maybe I had a bad batch...

[homebrewaddict]

I know this may get a lot of people upset, but the one 'good' beer for me that I tried and absolutely hated is Guiness. I just can't choke it down. I've tried on many occassions thinking that maybe I just wasn't feeling well or something (mainly because almost everyone I know raves like the stuff is the most amazing drink ever!) but I just can't stand the taste.

[fretlessman71]

Hey... it takes all kinds to make a world, addict. I've got a few widget cans of Guinness in the fridge, and I have to say that the last one I had didn't sit too well with my taste buds. Usually I love it, but I'm leaning more towards Murphy's Irish Stout these days.

For me, Fat Tire from New Belgium is something I keep trying to like and keep getting disappointed. There are so many GOOD beers coming out of Fort Collins, CO... why does everyone have to go nuts for the average one that has a cool label? Give me an Odell's 90 Schilling ANY day of the week over Flat Tire.

[steveh]

Originally posted by homebrewaddict
...but I just can't stand the taste.

Ah, yes. I remember the days of youth before *my* tastebuds matured too. Wait, that's not true, I've *always* liked Guinness! ;)

Seriously, though - what Guinness are you sampling? The Extra Stout, in the brown bottle - not the black bottle with rocket-widget, can be an acquired taste for some. And the widget-can and bottle, as well as the draft variety of the world famous dry stout can suffer the same consequences of poor care and handling, just like any beer. I've turned back pints of Guinness because it was obvious that the bar wasn't turning the beer over too often.

Many of the folk I work with were Miller Lite or Bud Lite drinkers before I started turning them on to good beer - and I started with Guinness. Of course they had the same misconceptions as many that the dark brew was going to taste thick, oily, and harshly bitter. But after their first sip of a well-poured widget-can draft Guinness, they were amazed.

S.

[hopjack13]

i had a guinness extra stout this weekend while i was on catalina
with raw oysters....not bad, not bad at all . i would've prefered a smoked porter.....stone comes to mind. guinness was the only thing they had on that tiny little island worth drinking. well wait..there was another bar that had paulener oktoberfest as well as the hef, munich and a pils they were all great on tap ,ice cold on a hot day, you could see the condensation dripping from the taps .(hmmm. im starting to get thirsty) other then the pualener and guinness it was just swill . i think ..they may have had better beer at the casino but i never made it over there.

[homebrewaddict]

I haven't tried the brown bottle, all my tastings have been of the widget variety. I still try and keep my mind open, and when I visit Ireland, I will definitly have to try the draft version there since it has the lower alcohol content, and that might make it better...who knows?

[hopjack13]

the only time i drink guinness draught is when im floating it on something ie... b&t or h&h

[b3s]

i think my blood is about 50% guiness...definitely one of my favorite beers :)

[steveh]

Originally posted by homebrewaddict
I will definitly have to try the draft version there since it has the lower alcohol content, and that might make it better...who knows?

If you visit Ireland and *not* have (at least one) Guinness, we'll have to revoke your forum membership! ;)

BTW - the Guinness on draught here is just about the same as the Guinness on draught over there - it's the surroundings and atmosphere over there that make it much more enjoyable. That and a shot of Bushmill's 16 year old whiskey!

S.

[ray m]

I would have to agree with Fretlessman regarding his comment on Fat Tire Ale. That is another brew I tried out west last month, since I can't get it at home. A couple of friends raved about it, but when I tried it, I was extremely disappointed. Very, very average beer that I would not buy again. I actually had to force myself to drink two of the last 4 remaining in the 6 pack I bought, and then I gave away the other 2 because I simply did not want to take them home.

[homebrewaddict]

Originally posted by steveh
If you visit Ireland and *not* have (at least one) Guinness, we'll have to revoke your forum membership! ;)

BTW - the Guinness on draught here is just about the same as the Guinness on draught over there - it's the surroundings and atmosphere over there that make it much more enjoyable. That and a shot of Bushmill's 16 year old whiskey!

S.

Actually, according to Papazian, Irish law dictates that Guiness has to be under a certain abv %, so they export the higher % stuff. So there is another difference besides the atmosphere.

[steveh]

Originally posted by homebrewaddict
Actually, according to Papazian, Irish law dictates that Guiness has to be under a certain abv %, so they export the higher % stuff. So there is another difference besides the atmosphere.

Yes, Guinness does export higher gravity beers to different points on the globe, including the Extra Stout found here in the States. However, the draught and pub-draught cans and bottle Guinness here are 4.0 ABV, just as the draught Guinness in Ireland.

And I don't know from law in Ireland (or what Charlie's sources are), but the Extra Stout is available there - and usually preferred by the older Stout lovers.

Of note for those trying to sway Lite beer friends away from swill, Guinness Draught is also low in calories - 110 to Miller Lite's 96. And ML is actually higher in ABV - 4.5%.

I defer: http://www.realbeer.com/edu/health/calories.php

S.

[hops99]

I'll probably get lynched for saying this, as Sierra Nevada seems to be treated with reverence across the board, but I didn't care for their Celebration Ale last Winter.

I love hoppy beers, think the Pale is a classic, enjoy the Barleywine, but I felt the Celebration Ale was bile. A whole case to waste...
:mad:

[fretlessman71]

It's certainly not Sierra Nevada's best, but it's very palatable to me. Try making beer bread with it - it's great!

And if you don't want the rest, you could send it to me.... :D We may even be able to work out a trade or something!

[steveh]

Originally posted by hops99
I'll probably get lynched for saying this, as Sierra Nevada seems to be treated with reverence across the board, but I didn't care for their Celebration Ale last Winter.

Damn. I was too busy to look for it - and when I did, it was all gone.

S.

[skahtboi]

Two that were dissappointing to me were Old Number 38 Stout and Guinness Draught (the one in the can.) I don't know if it was that particular batch I bought of the Guinness, but it tasted of the can and didn't taste like true Guinness to me (i.e. pub draught). I keep telling myself that I am going to give it another try sometime.

I also don't know if the Old Number 38 was truly indicative of its flavor, as it was a stash that was stored in the walk-in at a store I frequent, and had been there for some time. The guy that runs the place told me he ordered it originally for a local pub, but that they only bought half the order.

[b3s]

interesting...i have never had a bad guinness draught in the can. i do not like the draught from the bottle, but all of the cans i've had have been terriffic.

[fretlessman71]

Mildly off the regular subject, but... what's the difference in taste between the can and the Extra Stout in the bottle? (I, too, didn't care for the bottle draught.) Is it worth getting the bottle here?

[b3s]

unfortunately, the guinness beer faq (http://www.ivo.se/guinness/specs.html) does not cover the draught bottle guinness served in the usa.

according to the guinness web-site...

draught-in-bottles

meant to be drank from the bottle
rocket widget self-foams the bottle


draught-in-cans

meant to be poured
widget adds nitrogen foam to pour


my opinion is that either people do not buy the draught-in-bottle so the beer just sits for too long or the taste from drinking from the bottle with the widget adds some kind of off flavor.

at any rate, the bottled draught, imo (and the opinions of several other people who have had both) is that the bottle is not as good as the can. plus, the can is 16oz. :)

another thing that makes me suspect that the bottle-widget and the can-widget do something different is that trying to pour a black-n-tan and floating the ale doesn't work as well from the bottle as it does from the can.

otoh, there is no information from the guinness web-site that says there is any difference whatsoever, so i have wondered in the past if it is just my snobbery involved (beer should be drank from a glass, not a bottle, type of snobbery).

[fretlessman71]

Oh, I'm sorry... I meant the EXTRA STOUT without the widget! (You know, the stuff we had to drink before the can came out? ;) )

And it's far from snobbery... there's nothing to smell when you drink stuff out of the bottle! What a waste! It's like drinking coffee out of a bottle. Worthless!

[b3s]

oh, then that one i can answer :)

canned draught style:

Ireland & North America
OG: 1039 (9.75 Plato)
BU: 45
Colour: EBC - 130
Alcohol: 3.3% abw, 4.1% abv


bottled extra stout:

North America
Alcohol: 4.8% abw, 6% abv (although one poster noted that they had seen 5.6% in their promotional materials. Michael Jackson reports these figures.)
BU: 50+

[Beerconnoisseur]

I'll have to agree w/ the earlier comments about Fat Tire; their beer is particularly disappointing, since it seems to show some promise, but just doesn't quite make it...

Two others that never really did it for me are Bass, which tastes like battery acid to me. Granted, I'm not a fan of British beer, so take that for what you will.

However, the *CHAMPION* for disappointing beer has to be Celis White. It almost turned me off Belgian-style beers altogether, and that would have been a real shame. It had a nasty, sour taste to it, and it's the only beer I've ever returned to the store.

[bhoshour]

Flying Dog's In-heat Wheat. Stay away! I keep a running log of all the beers I drink so I will just paste it, but let me say that this was the first example from the brewery that I tried and I am loathe to sample anything else. This was a flat, sorry excuse for a Hefe-weizen:

This beer has very little head and no cloudiness with a creamed banana and vegetable, yeast aroma. It has a bit of a yeasty, fruity flavor with an average mouthfeel. The flavor consists of lemons, yeast, and mild wheat, maybe a little banana in there as well? The body is light and refreshing, although it has a short, disappointing finish. It has a very light carbonation, almost flat, and the beer finishes with a strange bitterness and a clove, banana flavor. It is a lackluster beer overall.

[fretlessman71]

Geez.... I'm wondering if you got a bad bottle. I picked up a variety pack of Flying Dog, and I was rather impressed by the In Heat Wheat. All of their other beers were pretty good too; so much so that I sent a fair amount to quantum24 in a trade, thinking that he'd really like them. quantum, you out there? What did you think?

[skahtboi]

Originally posted by Beerconnoisseur
However, the *CHAMPION* for disappointing beer has to be Celis White. It almost turned me off Belgian-style beers altogether, and that would have been a real shame. It had a nasty, sour taste to it, and it's the only beer I've ever returned to the store.

Hmmm...was this before or after the original Celis went out of business? I know that when they did close the brewery, many of the distributors left the product in the stores. I found some this past year that had been sitting in the back of the store for over two years, it was nasty in comparison to the "fresh" Celis stock. The original White was pretty smooth, just a hint of fruit and spice.

On the other hand, if it was recent, then Celis is no longer brewing it. A company called Michigan Brewing took over Celis' recipes, allegedly.

[hops99]

I've been drinking the "new" Celis White all summer long, after I picked up a couple of cases from Michigan Brewing, which is just an hour or so up the road. It's hard to accurately compare it to Pierre's Celis (it's likely been three or four years since I had the original Celis), but I believe it's pretty close. MBC also is brewing the Pale Bock, Grand Cru, and Raspberry; I tried them all at the Michigan Brewers Festival last weekend, and they were all superb - although I thought the Pale Bock might be a tad too sweet.

I do believe that you must have picked up an old bottle, which brings up another issue, maybe another topic. I can't begin to count how many times I've been burned by an old 6 pack of something, from beer stores all around the country. Sometimes I hesitate to judge a beer until I've had it fresh from the source....

[bhoshour]

Originally posted by fretlessman71
Geez.... I'm wondering if you got a bad bottle. I picked up a variety pack of Flying Dog, and I was rather impressed by the In Heat Wheat. All of their other beers were pretty good too; so much so that I sent a fair amount to quantum24 in a trade, thinking that he'd really like them. quantum, you out there? What did you think?

Maybe. but unlikely. I just found, that for a hefe-weizen, I was veryyyy disappointed. I might give it a try again in the future to confirm it, but I'm pretty sure. I'll still try Flying Dog's other brews, but I'm done with the in-heat wheat.

[skahtboi]

Originally posted by hops99
...which brings up another issue, maybe another topic. I can't begin to count how many times I've been burned by an old 6 pack of something, from beer stores all around the country. Sometimes I hesitate to judge a beer until I've had it fresh from the source....

That is one thing that I appreciate about my local good beer monger. They pull the out of date stuff off the shelves, and if the vendor fails to pick them up they will tell you about it being out of date before they sell it to you. I was given a Young's Oatmeal Stout, a Zambezi, and a Mackeson's XXX Stout recently to try from him. They were all quite delicious still, so he sold me a case of the Young's for 10 bucks, two cases of the Mackeson's for 8 each. Quite a deal, I thought.

[Fast_Eddy]

Hey skahtboi - you're in TX right? Where? I'm in Austin and would love to get some of those prices. Where's this gold mine?

[Beerconnoisseur]

Hmmm...was this before or after the original Celis went out of business? I know that when they did close the brewery, many of the distributors left the product in the stores. I found some this past year that had been sitting in the back of the store for over two years, it was nasty in comparison to the "fresh" Celis stock. The original White was pretty smooth, just a hint of fruit and spice.

This was some time ago, when I was in college; probably about 1997 or 1998. I really wish more breweries would have the confidence to follow the example set by Sam Adams, and include a "Best Before" date. Then it would be much easier to avoid bottles that have been sitting untouched for two years...

Oh, and Eddy, I'm in San Antonio... if you want to swap a homebrew sometime. :)

[barley ben]

one question i have for the marketers of guinness is the new "draft in a bottle" bottles recommend to serve ice cold? now personally, guinness is my old faithful of beer, but if anyone here has had a cold guinness, you will notice that you can't taste it. but one way i did find to enjoy it more is to obvously let it warm to the right temp and then pour it into a glass in several tippings instead out one constant pour like supposed to with the can. the bottle widget is designed to release a small amount of nitrogen everytime you tip the bottle instead of all at once like in the can.

[skahtboi]

Originally posted by Fast_Eddy
Hey skahtboi - you're in TX right? Where? I'm in Austin and would love to get some of those prices. Where's this gold mine?

I live in a small town north of Dallas. The establishment I am referring to is a privately owned place that caters to the local restaurants and bars. Frequently these "leftovers" that he has are a result of some bar ordering such and such a beer then changing their mind before the order comes in. There's not a big demand for real beer in these parts, so I feel lucky that they keep such a large variety on hand.

[Jeff]

I agree about the Fat Tire. I live in a college town, and for a while it was the beer for everybody to drink at the bars. Everybody thought that it would look cooler than having the standard bud light, but they could still stomach it on their weak pallets.

[Brownbeard]

I have a buddy who thinks the sun rises and sets in Denver, yet he still chooses to live in Iowa. He swears that Fat Tire is the best beer he's ever had. Now this was built up to me before I tried it. He brought some back after a trip to CO, and I had some. I thought it was OK. I have had lots better. But I would not say I hated it, or did not like it even, just that it was not the end to my search for the best beer in the world. As for "good" beers I did not like. I was surprised that I did not care for the Rogue Chocolate Stout. I love a good stout, and I tend to like Rogue beers. This one was not for me though. Rogue Dead Guy Ale has become one of my favorites. Alltime favorite beer, Sammy Smith's Oatmeal Stout. And I realize it's pretty commercial, but I really like Sam Adam's Cherry Wheat. Most fruit beers tend to be sweet and I am not into that. This one tastes like beer, with a hint of cherry.

[Bman]

I have not triend a "Good Beer" that I have not liked. Recently tried an Oatmeal Stout from Gray's Brewing In Janesville,WI-very good-also tried a Bock from New Glarius BC, New Glarius,WI nice bock

[steveh]

Originally posted by barley ben
one question i have for the marketers of guinness is the new "draft in a bottle" bottles recommend to serve ice cold?

I take it that you haven't heard of the Chilled Guinness gimick that spread around Ireland for a while? It may still be there (Richard?). What they do is to pump one of the kegs of Guinness through a flash chiller that makes it nearly ice cold. Not too many of the old timers or older publicans cared for it or pushed it. I guess Guinness was marketing it toward the "younger crowd" and were trying to stand up to the colder served American swill that's spreading around Europe.

But yeah, you're completely right - the colder the beer, the less you taste. Why do you think all of the macro Swillsners are served so cold? So you can't taste them. Ever taken a swig of a Miller that's been sitting out too long? Awful - isn't it? Take a swig of a Paulaner or Spaten that may have warmed beyond 40 F, tastes okay - doesn't it? And we all know how good a cask conditioned, hand pulled bitter tastes from at cellar temps.

S.

[toneyc]

Originally posted by steveh
And we all know how good a cask conditioned, hand pulled bitter tastes from at cellar temps.

S.

Well, no, but we will... One of these days....

:p
Toney.

[Fast_Eddy]

Originally posted by toneyc
Well, no, but we will... One of these days....

:p
Toney.

Toney you should make the drive over to Austin - the Gingerman is serving cask conditioned St Arnold's. Do it and give me a couple of weeks notice and I'll meet you there and we can trade some homebrew.

[toneyc]

Sounds excellent! It may be a little while though, right now I'm in danger of running dry. I skipped too many brewing weekends lately and may end up buying beer because of it.

:eek:
Toney.

[Bruno_78]

I know I'm probably going to be shunned for this but I didn't really enjoy the Three Floyds Alpha King. I've got four bottles left, and I'll probably drink them, but if someone wanted to trade I would be willing to give them up.

I'm not good at putting tastes into words, but it left me with a dry feeling, like I had just tasted cotton balls. I loved the aroma, I assuming the hops.

[steveh]

Originally posted by Bruno_78
I know I'm probably going to be shunned for this but I didn't really enjoy the Three Floyds Alpha King. I've got four bottles left, and I'll probably drink them, but if someone wanted to trade I would be willing to give them up.

I'm not good at putting tastes into words, but it left me with a dry feeling, like I had just tasted cotton balls. I loved the aroma, I assuming the hops.

D'OH! Blasphemy!!

Send 'em my way -- ;)

S.

Cotton balls?

[Brownbeard]

I just had the Alpha King for the first time this weekend and loved it. I also had Rogue's I2PA. That was awesome too. I gave my wife sips of both and she hated them. There were people at my house after a game on friday, and they raided the beer stash, which is cool. But in cleaning up the next morning, I found two half full Alpha Kings. Very disapointing.

[BluesHarp]

The Alpha King is an excellent brew...I haven't had any for a while; it is readily available here and I have been busy procuring harder-to-find beverages.
I have been drinking a lot of Victory, Stone, Alesmith, and Bear republic beers; I should pick up some AK soon just to see if my palate has been irrevocabally twisted!
I still have yet to taste "Dreadnaught", but I hope to remedy that in a few weeks!!

going back a few posts...I agree with Steveh on the Stella Artois; I sampled a bit at a pub in Minneapolis, it reminded of watered down Heineken. I'm glad I didn't order a pint.

[fretlessman71]

Originally posted by Brownbeard
I just had the Alpha King for the first time this weekend and loved it. I also had Rogue's I2PA. That was awesome too. I gave my wife sips of both and she hated them. There were people at my house after a game on friday, and they raided the beer stash, which is cool. But in cleaning up the next morning, I found two half full Alpha Kings. Very disapointing.

I would have thought that the Alpha Kings were still drinkable even after being left out for several hours... at least worth a shot! :D

[hops99]

The Alpha King is great, but it's certainly not the ideal beer to give an uninitiated beer lover. As a matter of fact, it just might be fatal for a Bud drinker....;)

[fretlessman71]

You're going to have to get a pic of yourself and use that as an avatar soon... I keep thinking you look like Jerry Garcia. :p

[Caffinehog]

I don't like any of the flying dog beers, and I don't like most beers by Stone either. I also couldn't choke down a Moylan's Imperial Stout. And SNPA, while not bad, is boring as far as pale ales go. Nor could I stand the Immort Ale.

Somebody hand me an IPA so I can wash these tastes out of my mouth!

[steveh]

Originally posted by hops99
The Alpha King is great, but it's certainly not the ideal beer to give an uninitiated beer lover. As a matter of fact, it just might be fatal for a Bud drinker....;)

Murder by hops... Maybe I ought to copyright that? Before someone else does!

S.

[steveh]

Originally posted by Caffinehog
And SNPA, while not bad, is boring as far as pale ales go.

Uh - oh... Pandora's is open again! ;)

I'll reiterate my opinion in that I started with SNPA as a pale ale drinker, got burned out by the glut of pretenders that followed, but have since reintroduced myself to SN and wonder why I wasted all my time with the coat-tail riders. It's still the benchmark for the American Pale Ale style.

S.

[chazwicke]

I agree that Alpha King would not be a good stepping stone beer for the un initiated. But it certainly is a fine beer.

[fretlessman71]

Hmmm... if caffeinehog doesn't like SNPA, then what DOES he like? :confused:

[steveh]

Originally posted by fretlessman71
Hmmm... if caffeinehog doesn't like SNPA, then what DOES he like?

Redhook's Double Black Stout - with the Starbuck's coffee as a key ingredient! ;)

S.

[fretlessman71]

OBOY! Wish I could get that here... maybe in Colorado... :D

[steveh]

Originally posted by fretlessman71
OBOY! Wish I could get that here... maybe in Colorado... :D

D'oh no!

Dear Beer Guru,
What the ale?! How come I can't find Doubleblack Stout brewed with Starbucks Coffee in my favorite store anymore?
Signed,
Jonesin' For Doubleblack

Dear JFD,
Sadly, Doubleblack Stout was retired in January of 2002 because demand for the beer dropped to levels where commercial production was no longer viable. We have secured the recipe in the brewers' vault in hopes that one day Doubleblack will rise like a phoenix from the ashes of brewing history to once again slake the thirsts of stout fans from sea to shining sea.
Cheers,
The Beer Guru

S.

[fretlessman71]

OK, so who makes a good coffee stout that I can try? (And I mean a GOOD one... I have poured out 2 that I didn't care for, although I'll be damned if I can remember them...)

[Stodbrew]

[i]Originally posted by steveh


I'll reiterate my opinion in that I started with SNPA. It's still the benchmark for the American Pale Ale style.



Agreed. Kinda makes you wonder where we'd be without it.

[Beaver]

Originally posted by fretlessman71
OK, so who makes a good coffee stout that I can try? (And I mean a GOOD one... I have poured out 2 that I didn't care for, although I'll be damned if I can remember them...)

Bell's has a Java Stout (http://bellsbeer.com/branddetail.asp?BrandID=43). It was good from what I can remember...I had this a long time ago though.

[HarkJohnny]

Originally posted by fidcastro
Oh yah.

One beer that was highly recommended to me is Hop Ottin IPA. I normally like really hoppy beers, but this one is just wrong. It has a nasty overpoering aroma, and a bad aftertaste that lasts about a week.

Blahgh.

Blasphemy! that's a terrific brew.. maybe you got a 6 pack that was treated badly for a few months before you got it.

Originally posted by Caffienehog
and I don't like most beers by Stone either
:eek: Stone has got to be my fav brewery. Stone IPA, Ruination, Arrogant Bastard! My mouth is already watering!

Then again, anything super aggressive, hoppy, bitter and just plain powerful is what I love.

As a matter of fact, it just might be fatal for a Bud drinker.

My father-in-law tried an Arrogant Bastard at a restaurant once because I raved about it so much, he said it tasted like vomit! lol Damn you, back to your piss-water!


Bad Brews
Sam Adams Triple Bock = Soy Sauce
Ayinger (don't even remember what it was it was so bad)
Flying Dog anything (they just aren't special)

[steveh]

Originally posted by fretlessman71
OK, so who makes a good coffee stout that I can try?

New Glarus makes one that I recall being pretty good: http://www.newglarusbrewing.com/beers/coffeestout.html

Heeyyy...says it's supposed to be out Februaryish - I was at the Wisconsin beer store I like and didn't see any on the shelves!

S.

[steveh]

Originally posted by HarkJohnny
Ayinger (don't even remember what it was it was so bad)

Ayinger is one'a those beers that you need to know it's fresh. I saw raves for their Oktoberfest at Beer Advocate, but the bottle I sampled tasted just south of vinegar.

S.

Hey Hark, who 'dat on your avatar?
<-----

[steveh]

Originally posted by Stodbrew
Agreed. Kinda makes you wonder where we'd be without it.

Well, not to diminish the mark SNPA has made on micro-brewing, but I was drinking a lot of Anchor Steam before SNPA. If Steam was easier to make, and not as "scary dark" to the uninitiated, I wonder if more micros would have tried the style?

S.

[HarkJohnny]

Originally posted by steveh
Ayinger is one'a those beers that you need to know it's fresh. I saw raves for their Oktoberfest at Beer Advocate, but the bottle I sampled tasted just south of vinegar.

then this was far from fresh... maybe if I find it again I'll have to give it another shot.


Originally posted by steveh
Hey Hark, who 'dat on your avatar?
<-----

That would be me circa 1997, Panama City, FL. College Graducation trip/Spring Break ... image pulled from a video i created of our trip... we had just returned from the nudie bar, drunk and happy as hell. :D

(I do graphic design, web design and video editing for a profession and hobby)

[Caffinehog]

Originally posted by fretlessman71
Hmmm... if caffeinehog doesn't like SNPA, then what DOES he like? :confused:

SNPA is boring to me! The hops aren't lively enough, and it could use a little more grain flavor. My favorite pale ale is Thirsty Dog's Hoppus Maximus.

[swampstander]

Magic Hat Heart of Darkness Stout. Some how reminded me of pea soup. Not your typical stout flavor:eek:

[BluesHarp]

Originally posted by Caffinehog
SNPA is boring to me! The hops aren't lively enough, and it could use a little more grain flavor. My favorite pale ale is Thirsty Dog's Hoppus Maximus.

I find it interesting that you don't like Stone...their hops just punch you right in the face!...bitterness as well as flavor, and the malt is big enough to stand up to it.
Have you tried the 7'th Anniversary Ale? Reminds me of Dogfish 90 Minute.

How about Bell's Two-Hearted Ale or New Glarus Hop Hearty? The NG has a nice grain flavor along with a very fresh hop flavor.

[hops99]

My favorite pale ale is Thirsty Dog's Hoppus Maximus.

I was surprised to see sixers of Hoppus at my local beer store a few months ago - I agree, it's a great beer, but that's a tough call between Hoppus and SNPA. I think I'll sit the fence on that one...

How about Bell's Two-Hearted Ale or New Glarus Hop Hearty? The NG has a nice grain flavor along with a very fresh hop flavor.

The New Glarus Hop Hearty might be the hoppiest IPA I tried last year - it shocked the hell out of me, since I hadn't tasted anything severely hopped from NG before.

[Caffinehog]

Originally posted by BluesHarp

Have you tried the 7'th Anniversary Ale? Reminds me of Dogfish 90 Minute.

How about Bell's Two-Hearted Ale or New Glarus Hop Hearty? The NG has a nice grain flavor along with a very fresh hop flavor.

I haven't tried the 7th aniversary ale or anything by New Glarus. But I love 90 minute IPA and two-hearted.
Speaking of dogfish, can anyone here stomach more than a couple sips of Worldwide?

[BluesHarp]

I love the World Wide Stout...but I look at it not as beer, but as a port wine or perhaps a cordial. It is a beverage for sipping slowly, preferably with a friend (especially the 23% '02 version).

The Stone 7'th Ann. reminds me of the 90Min; nice and hoppy, yet with a decent malty sweetness...a couple of the Bear Republic beers are of the same style.

[Tweek]

Im going to have to go with DFH 120 minute. It was way to sweet for me. That was perhaps the most cloying "beer " I have ever had. I have another bottle in the cellar that will get opened in about 5 years or so but until then I think there are a lot fo others things I need to try before returning to that one.

[steveh]

Originally posted by HarkJohnny
(I do graphic design, web design and video editing for a profession and hobby)

There's a few of us on this board - I'm an illustrator/graphic designer. I have lackeys to do the video editing (hah - our vid guy is actually a good friend, so I can give him grief!).

I like the vintage look of your avatar, thought it might have been a favorite player from the 40s or 50s.

S.

[steveh]

Originally posted by BluesHarp
I love the World Wide Stout...but I look at it not as beer, but as a port wine or perhaps a cordial. It is a beverage for sipping slowly, preferably with a friend (especially the 23% '02 version).

That's how I've been treating the SN Bigfoot this year - that stuff is just so intense in flavor complexity, as well as alcohol. I cellared 2 bottles, and there are still 2 bottles of the 4 left in my fridge - you have to be in the right mood for easing through one.

S.

[HarkJohnny]

Originally posted by steveh
There's a few of us on this board - I'm an illustrator/graphic designer. I have lackeys to do the video editing (hah - our vid guy is actually a good friend, so I can give him grief!).

not sure why i felt the need to express that I'm into graphics and video... it just felt right.

there must be something relative about creatives and good beer!

[Brownbeard]

Originally posted by chazwicke
I agree that Alpha King would not be a good stepping stone beer for the un initiated. But it certainly is a fine beer.

Well, they seemed excited that I had non BMC products. They had others, Anchor Steam, Sam Adams White, and Rogue Golden Ale to choose from. But the one guy that was a Miller light drinker had a sip of the Alpha King, I thought he was gonna die in my living room.

[newportstorm]

Originally posted by fretlessman71
OK, so who makes a good coffee stout that I can try? (And I mean a GOOD one... I have poured out 2 that I didn't care for, although I'll be damned if I can remember them...)

*Alesmith Speedway Stout (Impy Stout and potent)
*Berkshire Brewing Coffehouse Porter (limited distribution in New England - worth trading for a bomber imho)

I'm not a regular coffee drinker, though I love the smell, and these left me shaking - literally. Might be good to share.

Cheers!

[newportstorm]

Originally posted by Brewdepest
I tried the Lambic two weeks ago myself because I have a friend who really loves the stuff, and I came to the same conclusion. Maybe a hint of raspberry would be ok, but that was just waaay too much. Very disappointing for the price tag. I notice a lot of other chicks dig that beer, especially ones that aren't big beer fans.

For the love of all that is holy, please do not lump all lambics in with Lindeman's beers!! Their Framboise is sickeningly sweet due to the sugar and syrup (!) they employ in their brew. Before writing off lambics altogether, get your hands on something from Oud Beersel, Boon, Hanssens or the cream of the crop imo - Cantillon.

Put a Cantillon Rose de Gambrinus next to a Lindeman's Framboise - night and day. Dry, tart, earthy and slightly fruity. If you still feel the same way, so be it.

Cheers!

[steveh]

Originally posted by Brownbeard
... one guy that was a Miller light drinker had a sip of the Alpha King, I thought he was gonna die in my living room.

Yet another case of {dramatic crescendo here} Murder By Hops!

;)

S.

[steveh]

Originally posted by HarkJohnny
there must be something relative about creatives and good beer!

Yeah, it's called despair! ;)

S.

[unkle bik]

Dogfish Head Raison d'etre (or something like that) was the absolute worse.
That stuff tasted & smelled like shellac. Too damn sweet. I have heard great things about this brewery ,& to date it is the only one I have sampled from them.
I am a bit reluctant to try anything else by them due to that bad experience. Could I be wrong in my reasoning of this brewery?

[newportstorm]

Originally posted by unkle bik
Dogfish Head Raison d'etre (or something like that) was the absolute worse....I am a bit reluctant to try anything else by them due to that bad experience. Could I be wrong in my reasoning of this brewery?

There seem to be two camps when it comes to DFH. One appreciates the experimental nature of their brews and take the successes with the failures. Others are rarely inspired by their "gimmicky" beers and wish they'd stick more to the basics. I don't think I've ever met someone who was indifferent about DFH. You love 'em or hate 'em, I guess. Me? I love 'em.

Cheers!

[unkle bik]

Thanx for the info.
Any brews by them you could recommend?

[sallad]

DFH makes some really good beers, and some uncommon "experimental" ones. read the BJCP info on experimental brews (http://www.bjcp.org/styleguide24.html) - i think DFH does a good job following that concept. of course, i wouldn't make rason d'etre or midas touch my normal session beer!

their 90min IPA is fantastic. 60min IPA is quite good also. they are true to classic styles rather than experimental ones. try those out!

[chazwicke]

Originally posted by Brownbeard
Well, they seemed excited that I had non BMC products. They had others, Anchor Steam, Sam Adams White, and Rogue Golden Ale to choose from. But the one guy that was a Miller light drinker had a sip of the Alpha King, I thought he was gonna die in my living room.


LOL!!

[chazwicke]

Originally posted by newportstorm
For the love of all that is holy, please do not lump all lambics in with Lindeman's beers!! Their Framboise is sickeningly sweet due to the sugar and syrup (!) they employ in their brew. Before writing off lambics altogether, get your hands on something from Oud Beersel, Boon, Hanssens or the cream of the crop imo - Cantillon.

Put a Cantillon Rose de Gambrinus next to a Lindeman's Framboise - night and day. Dry, tart, earthy and slightly fruity. If you still feel the same way, so be it.

Cheers!

VERY WELL SAID! I agree totally.

[newportstorm]

Originally posted by unkle bik
Thanx for the info.
Any brews by them you could recommend?

I've yet to have a "bad" DFH beer:

*I agree with 'sallad' - the 90 Minute IPA is fantastic. They may still have some in the corked 750s in spots. Otherwise, the 12 oz. is good - just a notch below it's big brother, imo
*60 Minute IPA is decent.
*I really liked Raison D'etre - you didn't. Oh well.
*Their Indian Brown is an interesting hybrid beer.
*I didn't particularly like the 120 Minute IPA but I applaud DFH for brewing that beast.
*Worldwide Stout (any vintage) is worthy of a purchase, despite it's price.
*Still have a bottle of Pangaea in the cellar to try
*The Festina Lente (peach neo-lambic) took a beating due to carbonation problems but the flavor was superb, imho, nonetheless.
*Just picked up some 12 ouncers of the Olde School Barleywine. Got a taste of this on cask at the CT Real Ale Fest. That mouthfull convinced me to pony up for this brew.
*Many more I've yet to try........Raison D'extra, Chicory Stout, Snowblower, Oyster Stout, etc. etc.

Cheers!

[steveh]

Originally posted by sallad
their 90min IPA is fantastic. 60min IPA is quite good also. they are true to classic styles rather than experimental ones. try those out!

Agreed - my local good-beer-bar had the 60 Minute on tap for quite some time this past winter and it was quite good.

S.

[BluesHarp]

Originally posted by steveh
There's a few of us on this board - I'm an illustrator/graphic designer.

...interesting, my son is going to college studying graphic design; he had an offer to attend the Art Institute in Shaumburg; actually attended a week-long seminar there two summers ago, but decided to stick closer to home.
He is really a pretty talented artist..does a lot of comic book style drawings.

[BluesHarp]

..hmmm...Dogfish..
Love the 90min, 60min, Olde School, Indian Brown Ale.
The '02 World wide Stout is a real experience...sipping only (23%ABV)!! (but I found it wonderful)

Don't really like the Raison D'Etre too much; I have abottle of Midas Touch, but haven't opened it yet.

i will definitely try any of their other brews, as well.

[steveh]

Originally posted by BluesHarp
...interesting, my son is going to college studying graphic design; he had an offer to attend the Art Institute in Shaumburg; actually attended a week-long seminar there two summers ago, but decided to stick closer to home.
He is really a pretty talented artist..does a lot of comic book style drawings.

Tell him to study copier repair - it's more lucrative! ;D

Where's he going Harp?

S.

[BluesHarp]

He's currently working on his associate degree at the local technical college (WCTC), should be graduating next semester.
I'm urging him to consider a four year program at one of the UW branches if he can decide on a area of focus.
He did a lot of advertising stuff in high school for Decca and Business World competitions; placing first a number of times.
He has already designed business cards for a few of our self-employed friends...made a few bucks, and it looks good on the resume.

[steveh]

Originally posted by BluesHarp
I'm urging him to consider a four year program at one of the UW branches if he can decide on a area of focus.

Don't know much about any of the UW schools, but NIU in DeKalb, IL has a great art program with an illustration major, and I've seen the catalog of classes for Columbia in Chicago and they make me wish they'd had the curriculum when I was studying.

S.

But I still recommend copier or computer repair! ;)

[BeerBelly]

Arrogant Bastard..... The stuff is NASTY. I am very gald I only bought one bottle, I would hate to pour outexpensive beer.

BB

[fretlessman71]

So if Arrogant Bastard isn't your thing, what kind of stuff DO you like? (No implications here... just curious.)

[BeerBelly]

Bass is an old favorite. Fat Tire is pretty good. But I have come to like my own better than anything else. I keep a keg of Cream Ale on tap. And I think right now I have an Amber, american Lite and a Bock also. But my friends and I like the Cream Ale the best so far.

[Tweek]

Not much of a hop man. Tha is cool. Stone beers are not for everyone.

You should give Rogues Oregon Golden ale a try. Its a great session beer and fairly malt forward.

cheers!

[Brownbeard]

Originally posted by Tweek
Not much of a hop man. Tha is cool. Stone beers are not for everyone.

You should give Rogues Oregon Golden ale a try. Its a great session beer and fairly malt forward.

cheers!

I have a sixer of the Oregon Golden Ale in my fridge. It is pretty good.

[barley ben]

Arrogant Bastard..... The stuff is NASTY. I am very gald I only bought one bottle, I would hate to pour outexpensive beer.

You're not worthy!!!!

Haven't had the pleasure of trying it yet. Can't find it in south Jersey.

[Tweek]

Stone makes some great beers imo, but you have to like a lot of hops or forget it. If you like hops Iwould recomend tracking some down. you wont be disappointed.

[barley ben]

I believe there a few places or at least one in Philly that have it. I just never have the time to get there on the weekends. Not to say I'd be going pubcrawling solo.

[barley ben]

Oh yeah, and you will never hear me complain about too much hops!!

[davesarman]

I would agree with a previous poster who mentioned Stella Artois. This stuff is way over rated. I heard some one call it the Coors Light of Belgium. An accurate description in my opinion. They must have gotten a big distributing deal around here, because lately I've been seeing it all over the place.

Also, when it first came out, and my palate was far less educated, I was a big fan of Sam Adams Triple Bock and ended up buying a couple of cases of it. Now, I'm not quite so enamored with it and am stuck with many bottles of the stuff. I cellar it and taste one every year or so, but mainly I use it for cooking and marinades. I grilled a pork loin last week that had been in a Triple Bock marinade for a day and a half and it was fabulous!

[newportstorm]

Originally posted by barley ben
I believe there a few places or at least one in Philly that have it. I just never have the time to get there on the weekends. Not to say I'd be going pubcrawling solo.

If you live in the area, you probably already know about The Foodery - it sounds like the place buy good beer in Philly - and manage to avoid the stupid effin' case laws. Anyway, the reviews are worth checking out:

http://www.beeradvocate.com/beerfly/user_reviews/1420/

Cheers!

[BluesHarp]

Originally posted by BeerBelly
Arrogant Bastard..... The stuff is NASTY. I am very gald I only bought one bottle, I would hate to pour outexpensive beer.

BB

AAAAHHHHHRRRRGGGGGGHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

...then I guess Double Bastard is out of the question?:D

I'm a hop monster...I've yet to find ANY beer that I can say is too hoppy (or too malty, for that matter)

[barley ben]

If you live in the area, you probably already know about The Foodery

No I did not. Gotta check it out. Thanks!!

[Beaver]

I just tried the Arrogant Bastad for the first time tonight. I got it at Old Chicago's. It was listed for 5.25 for 17 oz. but was actually 4.50 for 22 oz. I was kind of suprised at the lack of mark-up (I think it's normally $4 in stores).

I didn't keep notes, but I really liked it. It wasn't nearly as hoppy as I was expecting...very smooth beer. I'll definitely be trying it again in the future. I'd like to get the Double Bastard as well, but I have yet to see that in any stores in Fort Collins.

[BeerBelly]

Originally posted by BluesHarp
[
...then I guess Double Bastard is out of the question?:D
/B]

Totally. I will stick to trying others. The Bastards are not for me. But that is OK, that is the reason we make so many different types of beer.

"You're not worthy!!!!

Haven't had the pleasure of trying it yet. Can't find it in south Jersey." quoted from Barley Ben

I am not sure whether or not to be offended by this. Since you havent tried it you dont know what you are talking about. And are speaking out of turn.

BB

[fretlessman71]

I wouldn't get too upset... you did see where it said just that on the front of the bottle, didn't you?

Who knows... maybe Barley Ben is ALSO "not worthy..." ;)

[barley ben]

That was a 100% joke. As Fret said, it's on just about everything Arrogant Bastard. And who knows, maybe I'll turn out to be not worthy. Can't wait to find out!! Just having fun, not trying to offend anyone. Sorry if I did.

[fretlessman71]

Personally, I think Arrogant Bastard is a weak version of SN Bigfoot... and I prefer Bigfoot. It's cheaper, too! Maybe Stone is "not worthy"....

[Wilson]

I just had my first Stone IPA. Wow! Thats about as far as I have ever pushed my hop experience. I liked it, but it will take a little getting used to. We dont get alot of hop-heavies down here.

[skahtboi]

Originally posted by fretlessman71
Personally, I think Arrogant Bastard is a weak version of SN Bigfoot... and I prefer Bigfoot. It's cheaper, too! Maybe Stone is "not worthy"....

Really Fretless? How so? I still see them as two entirely separate entities as far as beers go. Gotta admit that I too, prefer the Bigfoot. But hey, I have drunk my share of AB as well.

[skahtboi]

Originally posted by Wilson
I just had my first Stone IPA. Wow! Thats about as far as I have ever pushed my hop experience. I liked it, but it will take a little getting used to. We dont get alot of hop-heavies down here.

One of the Stone offerings I have yet to try, which is somewhat surprising considering that I tend to be a bit of a hop head. How does it compare to other "hoppy" beers?

[Tweek]

Originally posted by fretlessman71
Personally, I think Arrogant Bastard is a weak version of SN Bigfoot... and I prefer Bigfoot. It's cheaper, too! Maybe Stone is "not worthy"....

That is a wierd leap you are making there. those two are nothing alike imo. The arrogant bastard, is just a hoppy session beer, ipa like. Where bigfoot is a barleywine, and at least for me hardly a session beer.

[Fast_Eddy]

Originally posted by fretlessman71
Personally, I think Arrogant Bastard is a weak version of SN Bigfoot... and I prefer Bigfoot. It's cheaper, too! Maybe Stone is "not worthy"....

I've seen AB v. Bigfoot comment on the board before - and I have to agree with the above that AB and Bigfoot are too different to really compare. AB is generally classified as an Old/Strong Ale and Bigfoot is a big barleywine.

[fretlessman71]

Maybe I'll just have to get another bottle of Bastard and see if I still feel that way, eh? I know that the Bigfoot releases differ a fair amount... maybe it's a particular year that's stuck in my taste buds' memories. AB is just too strong to be a good session beer for me, however... and Bigfoot is a "beer-for-the-night" for me!

[Beaver]

The AB reminded me a lot more of an IPA than an Old/Strong Ale. At 7.2% I don't think I'd classify it as a session beer. It was very drinkable, but would mess you up rather quickly!

[Stodbrew]

Its kind of funny how the lines between barley wines, old ales, and double IPA's are so blurry these days. They used to be pretty cut and dried. I'm not saying its necessarily a bad thing, just kind of odd. That's one of the great things about craft brewing, making up new, or improving upon, classic beer styles.

[fretlessman71]

Doesn't music do the same thing? I mean, go listen to Coldplay and tell me what genre they fit into. Who cares if it doesn't fit a specific guideline? If you like it, drink it, or listen to it, or hang it on your wall, or WHATEVER... just enjoy it!

[Stodbrew]

Nicely said. I couldn't agree more.

[Beaver]

Originally posted by Stodbrew
Its kind of funny how the lines between barley wines, old ales, and double IPA's are so blurry these days. They used to be pretty cut and dried. I'm not saying its necessarily a bad thing, just kind of odd. That's one of the great things about craft brewing, making up new, or improving upon, classic beer styles.

Very interesting post Stodbrew (you too Fret). I am glad that brewers feel free to improvise rather than sticking strictly to style guidelines. Lots of very interesting (and good) brews have been a result of that.

[Stodbrew]

I definitely think it is important for brewers to come up with new and intersting beers. While I enjoy brewing some of the world's classic beer styles, sometimes I like to break out and try and brew something different. I think that's where American style pale ale and IPA came from. You simply can't compare British and American style pale ale or IPA anymore, and that's a great thing. I think it legitimizes American brewers as being worthy of brewing some of the world's new beer styles. That's another great thing about craft brewing, we are not held down by styles, if we want to brew a bastardized style, we can. And that is where a lot of new styles are born.

[CapsFan1974]

I still haven't found any lambics I can stomach.

Not a big fan of the Sam Adams Triple either.

[steveh]

Originally posted by Tweek
The arrogant bastard, is just a hoppy session beer, ipa like. Where bigfoot is a barleywine, and at least for me hardly a session beer.

You realize that Arrogant Bastard is 7.2 ABV? Hardly a session beer itself! And IPAs can run the range of 5 - 8 ABV. Remember, its history is that it was brewed big, along with extra hopping, for that long trip to India.

S.

[steveh]

Originally posted by Stodbrew
I think that's where American style pale ale and IPA came from. You simply can't compare British and American style pale ale or IPA anymore, and that's a great thing.

But, in your opinion I realize, do you think that American IPAs are closer to the original style than what British IPAs have evolved to? I had American IPAs before I ever tried a British-brewed IPA - knew the storied history of the style, and all - and was pretty surprised by the British beer. Heck, at one time Bass was considered an IPA and proclaimed so on the label.

Then again, we know the story of how and why the style was brewed, but I wonder what it tasted like after the boat trip from England, around Africa, to India? Maybe it had mellowed and matured - the hops diminishing in their potency somewhat?

Where did I put that damned time machine?

S.

[chazwicke]

There is a new beer being brewed in England that is made to a recipe from the 1700s. Supposedly an authentic IPA. True to the original style. It is brewed by Freeminer and is available in bottles in some markets here. It is called Titanic and I sampled a few at that South Beach Festival. I also chatted with the brewer. I think I may have left tasting notes on this beer before.

I too love the diversity that has developed during the micro revolution and am glad for it. While I enjoy traditional styles I also relish trying new variations. Sometimes I am in the mood for a finesse beer thzt is balanced, subtle, and exactly as expected. Other times I want something big like Stone or Three Floyds beers. It's all subjective anyway and like Fret said, If you like it who cares.

[Tweek]

Originally posted by steveh
You realize that Arrogant Bastard is 7.2 ABV? Hardly a session beer itself! And IPAs can run the range of 5 - 8 ABV. Remember, its history is that it was brewed big, along with extra hopping, for that long trip to India.

S.

aye, I realize that. still dont see how that excludes it from being a session beer? Granted I have never had more than 3 of them in a sitting but being in the large bottles, that is quite a session. I guess I see a session beer as something you would have several pints of back to back, not something you would pound down. So by that descriptor, the Arrogant Bastard is indeed a session beer.

[fretlessman71]

Your alcohol tolerance must be legendary! Geez.... THREE BOTTLES of the Bastard in a night! That's like having FOUR or FIVE Bigfoot beers!

I'd be asleep by the second one... guess I'm not worthy after all! ;)

[Fast_Eddy]

Originally posted by fretlessman71
Doesn't music do the same thing? I mean, go listen to Coldplay and tell me what genre they fit into. Who cares if it doesn't fit a specific guideline? If you like it, drink it, or listen to it, or hang it on your wall, or WHATEVER... just enjoy it!

I hope no one thought I was saying that beers should be strictly brewed to style - I wasn't - I almost never brew to style myself. I was saying that, in my opinion, AB and Bigfoot, taste-wise, are too dissimilar to compare.

[steveh]

Originally posted by Tweek
aye, I realize that. still dont see how that excludes it from being a session beer? Granted I have never had more than 3 of them in a sitting but being in the large bottles, that is quite a session. I guess I see a session beer as something you would have several pints of back to back, not something you would pound down. So by that descriptor, the Arrogant Bastard is indeed a session beer.

By common definition, a session beer is one of which you can consume a few pints and not worry about falling off your bar stool. Basically, a low gravity beer that can be consumed in quantity.

http://www.realbeer.com/library/beerlog/2001/04/09.php

I suppose that if your tolerance of a 7% ABV beer, times 60 or so ounces, is good enough to avoid meeting the floor up close and personal - then I guess you can call it a session beer. Just give us fair warning if you're driving... :eek:

S.

[Stodbrew]

Originally posted by steveh
But, in your opinion I realize, do you think that American IPAs are closer to the original style than what British IPAs have evolved to? I had American IPAs before I ever tried a British-brewed IPA - knew the storied history of the style, and all - and was pretty surprised by the British beer. Heck, at one time Bass was considered an IPA and proclaimed so on the label.

Then again, we know the story of how and why the style was brewed, but I wonder what it tasted like after the boat trip from England, around Africa, to India? Maybe it had mellowed and matured - the hops diminishing in their potency somewhat?

Where did I put that damned time machine?

S.


I think, possibly, that American IPA's are somewhat closer to the original British version, but with very distinct differences. First, of all, as you said, British IPA's had probably mellowed quite a bit on the journey to India. Secondly, the use of American hops in our IPA's is the main difference these days. Cascade, Chinook, Centennial, etc., all give a much different flavor profile than do East Kent Goldings or Fuggles. And with the use of high alpha hops, the bitterness is much more prominent, IMO.

I think Bass calling themselves an IPA probably had more to do with marketing than anything else.

And when you find that time machine, let me know so I can head back with you! :D

[Tweek]

Originally posted by steveh
By common definition, a session beer is one of which you can consume a few pints and not worry about falling off your bar stool. Basically, a low gravity beer that can be consumed in quantity.

http://www.realbeer.com/library/beerlog/2001/04/09.php

I suppose that if your tolerance of a 7% ABV beer, times 60 or so ounces, is good enough to avoid meeting the floor up close and personal - then I guess you can call it a session beer. Just give us fair warning if you're driving... :eek:

S.

Hmm, i never really thought of myself of having a large tolerance, though I am no light weight either. I can enjoy several of those arrogant bastards before I get sloshy, but I suppose I will adjust my definition of session beer so that others will know what I mean when I say session beer.

[Fast_Eddy]

Originally posted by Stodbrew
I think, possibly, that American IPA's are somewhat closer to the original British version, but with very distinct differences. First, of all, as you said, British IPA's had probably mellowed quite a bit on the journey to India. Secondly, the use of American hops in our IPA's is the main difference these days. Cascade, Chinook, Centennial, etc., all give a much different flavor profile than do East Kent Goldings or Fuggles. And with the use of high alpha hops, the bitterness is much more prominent, IMO.

I think Bass calling themselves an IPA probably had more to do with marketing than anything else.

And when you find that time machine, let me know so I can head back with you! :D

For an exhaustive discussion of English IPA/Bitter/Pale read Terry Foster's AHA Classic Style Pale Ale. It's a big book for a style book and about 75% of it is history. It's actually fairly interesting how the style evolved.

[steveh]

Originally posted by Stodbrew
I think Bass calling themselves an IPA probably had more to do with marketing than anything else.

Maybe, but it was so small and discreet on the label, I always had trouble finding the little - I.P.A. When it disappeared completely, I thought it was just my eyes!

And when you find that time machine, let me know so I can head back with you!

I have a call in to H.G! ;)

S.

[PCaravan]

I love beer in general and am willing to try just about any beer and give it a fair chance. But I have yet to try any Belgium style beer that I liked. To be fair, I've only tried about 3 or 4 that I knew were made to a Belgium style and none of them were actually made in Belgium and I'm told there is a difference but until I'm convinced otherwise I'm not buying any or making any of my own. I hated those that I tried that much!!

[chazwicke]

There are SOOOO many different Belgians and each with it's own flavor. It is even hard to break it down into sub catagories in my opinion. I do not like every Belgian beer that I have ever tried and I agree that some are over the top. But I do love the Lambics. Cantillon and Oude Beersel are great.

[shifty brewer]

Hands down the worst "good" beer I've ever been unfortunate enough to imbibe was Sam Adams Triple Bock. A few years ago a friend of mine pulled one out of his fridge and said that it was the only beer his roommate had never been able to finish. Naturally I rose to the challenge and downed that sucker. Someone earlier in this post likened it to soy sauce. That is the only thing I could compare it to. I lost my lunch five minutes or so afterwards, I'm far from a light weight but the taste wouldn't go away. I did however manage to choke the whole thing down.

Second place is Bad Frog Beer. I don't think its made anymore.

[denver brewhoo]

I don't like Paulaner Hefeweissen. Tastes like rubber tires to me. Fire away!!

[steveh]

Originally posted by denver brewhoo
I don't like Paulaner Hefeweissen. Tastes like rubber tires to me. Fire away!!

Hmm. Haven't had that particular brannd's Hefe in a while...wonder if the local has it? Rubber tires? Tastes like a tire store smells? Hmm...

S.

[Brownbeard]

I had Fuller's ESB for the first time this weekend. I have to say, I was unimpressed. And, with the exception of hte Conniston Bluebird, I have been disapointed in most English ales I have tried recently. Even Sam Smith's brown ale, which used to be one of my favorites. I had a Newcastle the other night, and did not enjoy it either. I think American pale ales are the culprit. I have been drinking a lot of hoppy APAs lately, and I think it has turned me against the more subtle English counterpart. Also, I am noticing a flavor in English alses that I have not noticed before. I don't want to use the word stale, but that is what comes to mind. This has been several different brews from several different establishments. On tap and in the bottle. Even Bass has this funny taste now. I think maybe American hops are killing my taste buds.

[threecb]

Originally posted by Brownbeard
Even Bass has this funny taste now.

I completely argree with you on the Bass thing. The last couple of times I had it I could barely finish it. I thought it was just me, but apparently it's just me and brownbeard! :p

[chazwicke]

Well then, I recommend staying with the Conniston! :D

[steveh]

Originally posted by Brownbeard
Also, I am noticing a flavor in English alses that I have not noticed before. I don't want to use the word stale, but that is what comes to mind. This has been several different brews from several different establishments. On tap and in the bottle. Even Bass has this funny taste now.

Is it sort of butterscotch in character? If so, it's probably diacetyl, a bi-product of ale yeasts from warm fermentation that tends to be overpowered by strong hop flavor, but is completely acceptable in English Style ales.

Of course, if the establishments you've visited don't sell too much of the ales, it could very well be stale - especially a first draw of the day from beer that's been sitting in the line for a day (or longer).

I think maybe American hops are killing my taste buds.

Could be! ;)

Fuller's ESB is probably my favorite ESB of all.

S.

[Brownbeard]

I could see where it might be described as butterscotch, but not sweet, more buttery.

[threecb]

Originally posted by steveh
Of course, if the establishments you've visited don't sell too much of the ales, it could very well be stale - especially a first draw of the day from beer that's been sitting in the line for a day (or longer).
S.

I don't think in my case it was diacytel. It was the VFW hall, which specializes in macros. And it was bottled, not tap, so I'd go with old beer as the reason.

[steveh]

Originally posted by Brownbeard
I could see where it might be described as butterscotch, but not sweet, more buttery.

Yup, diacetyl.

S.

[steveh]

Originally posted by threecb
I don't think in my case it was diacytel. It was the VFW hall, which specializes in macros. And it was bottled, not tap, so I'd go with old beer as the reason.

Bass seems to have gone really downhill. One of the guys I work with likes it, and I tried one of his bottles not long ago - just not as good as it used to be. I bet Richard would agree with us ten-fold!

S.

[chazwicke]

Bass on tap used to be an acceptable alternative when I was in an establishment that had few other options. Now that spot is usually filled by Guinness on tap.

[BrewDog]

Chimay Red. Absolutely Hated it. Worst tasting crap I ever had.
Kaiserdom Rauchbier was a close second. I know smoked beers are popular here, but, sorry, not for me.

[steveh]

Heh, heh, heh - how long you been drinking BrewDog? I can remember when I thought Rauchbiers were a bit strange too. However, I've always liked the Chimay offerings.

S.

[chazwicke]

I love some of the Rauchs I have tried. Absolutely!

[BrewDog]

I had these back around '87-88 or so. I tried them once and never tried them again. Funny that I love smoked foods, but not smoked beer. What can I say? Just my taste.

[newportstorm]

For me, Rauchbiers are not stand-alone session beers. They beg to be paired with stong flavored foods. Try a Aecht Schlenkerla Rauchbier Urbock with a nice grilled bratwurst with onions and good, spicy German mustard on a soft bakery roll. Oh my effin' God is that good!! Might also work with some stronger/smoked cheeses. Anyway, the first time I enjoyed one was at Redbones BBQ in Boston - paired with some smoked beef brisket, ribs and cornbread - woohoo!

Then again, maybe they're just not your bag. That's cool.

Cheers!

[BrewDog]

Hi Newport-

Well, maybe i'll give a Rauch a try again sometime. It has been a long time.

Redbones- Great place. I used to go there when I lived outside Boston 90-93

BTW, I grew up in Westerly RI. Have you tried the Old Yankee Ale from Cottrell Brewing across the river from Westerly in Pawcatuck CT? I haven't had it, but I hear it's pretty good. There's a recipe for it in "Clone Brews" that I plan to try in the next month or so.

[newportstorm]

Originally posted by BrewDog
Hi Newport-

Well, maybe i'll give a Rauch a try again sometime. It has been a long time.

Redbones- Great place. I used to go there when I lived outside Boston 90-93

BTW, I grew up in Westerly RI. Have you tried the Old Yankee Ale from Cottrell Brewing across the river from Westerly in Pawcatuck CT? I haven't had it, but I hear it's pretty good. There's a recipe for it in "Clone Brews" that I plan to try in the next month or so.

Yeah, give a Rauchbier another go 'round. I felt the same way about barleywines about 5-6 years ago. Now, I love 'em!

Tough to beat Redbones for BBQ or beer - one of the top spots in Boston (Somerville).

I have had the Cotrell Old Yankee. Nice english pale ale, but I've had some freshness issues with it. They notch the month on the side of the bottle - but some of these bottles look pretty beat up so I wonder about what year they're from!! :eek: If I could get it locally on tap, I would. I try to support local beer when I can.

Cheers!

[BrewDog]

BTW, I grew up in Westerly RI. Have you tried the Old Yankee Ale from Cottrell Brewing across the river from Westerly in Pawcatuck CT? I haven't had it, but I hear it's pretty good. There's a recipe for it in "Clone Brews" that I plan to try in the next month or so.

I should have said "North American Clone Brews", not "Clone Brews". Sorry for any confusion this might have caused.

[Krougar]

This isn't necessarily in the same line of the orginal topic, but more a divergance in opinion of a single brewery's beers that I've had experience with:

I have now (as of this day), been able to taste 5 of the Left Hand brewery beers with a very good sense of satisfaction. I won't list them, but I will say that they, unfortunately, exlude the imperial stout. The Nut Brown (as I have posted as a kind of double tasting post before) was overwhelmingly yeasty to me as I experienced it. To say it was yeasty is a little generalized, but I really can't think of any other taste that can contain the bitter taste and overwhelming aroma that I, personally, did not care for in the least. I couldn't finish a third of my pint of it.

I feel this fits in this thread, at least a little bit, because all the other brews I've had from t his brewery (and some from the same pub I had the one bad one) have been good enough to meet my expectations. It might not be a "good beer" in a lot of people's standards, but considering the track record I personally have with their beers...I don't think I'm totally out of line.

[Solstice]

I tried Sam Adams Triple Bock. I was told by a felow employee/ beer enthusiast that it was fantastic! I had to try it! You'll never try anyhting like it! He was right. I have never put anything so foul between my lips ever again. I have had some nasty beer, but this brought nasty to another level. Maple flavor and beer are just not a good combo. Their are those who think that it is great!?!? OOOOOOOOOK. Enjoy it! I'll have something else. Maybe something that was left under my son's bed.

"A woman is a lot like beer. They smell good, they look good, and you'd step over your own mother to get one." - Homer J. Simpson

[steveh]

Originally posted by BrewDog
I had these back around '87-88 or so. I tried them once and never tried them again. Funny that I love smoked foods, but not smoked beer. What can I say? Just my taste.

You need to try them again - I highly suggest the Schlenkerla Marzen or Bock. Back in '88 I imagine you gave a sip to the Kaiserdom Rauch being distributed - and highly marketed - by Merchant du Vin back then. It was (is?) pretty much liquid bacon. When I visited Bamberg I was so afraid that all of the Rauchs would taste this way and I'd never get through the visit. To my surprise and delight, the available Rauchs were mellow and tasty.

And if you like smoked foods, pick up some smoked Gouda, smoked almonds, and a couple bottles of Shlenkerla for a little tasting session - then report back, of course!

S.

[SAustinTX]

A couple years ago in Austin the Goose Island Brewing Company sent their people down from Chicago with fistfuls of cash and bought out a tap at every bar in town. I found their Honkers Ale to be thoroughly unexceptional, and apparently I wasn't the only one: slowly but surely their presence disappeared from the city altogether.

[Brownbeard]

I think the honker's ale is fantastic. I do not particularly care for the Hexx Nut Brown.

[steveh]

Originally posted by SAustinTX
I found their Honkers Ale to be thoroughly unexceptional

Compared to or with what? What beer do you usually drink? I can understand thinking that the Honkers is "just another American Pale Ale," but it fits the bill pretty well - and better than quite a few out there.

AFA no one down there drinking it, there's no accounting for taste anywhere in the world - the majority in this country drink swill and turn their noses up at anything "different." Oh well, all the more for those of us in-the-know.

S.

[fretlessman71]

Originally posted by Krougar
This isn't necessarily in the same line of the orginal topic, but more a divergance in opinion of a single brewery's beers that I've had experience with:

I have now (as of this day), been able to taste 5 of the Left Hand brewery beers with a very good sense of satisfaction. I won't list them, but I will say that they, unfortunately, exlude the imperial stout.

...I don't think I'm totally out of line.

Of course you're not - the LH Imp. Stout is extremely alcoholic at first. This is going to sound weird, but I drank half my bomber on one night, capped it with a strange deeliebobber that I got years ago, and finished it the next night. It tasted FAR better the second night... don't know why that would have been, but I'm beginning to think that this is a beer that needs to be opened up to the air to breathe (not unlike a great old wine) for a fair amount of time before consumption. I'll have to try that again with the last bomber I have here; I'll let you know what I find with it. Seems there's less oxygen up here... ;-)

[unkle bik]

Originally posted by steveh
Compared to or with what? What beer do you usually drink? I can understand thinking that the Honkers is "just another American Pale Ale," but it fits the bill pretty well - and better than quite a few out there.


S.

I think Honker's make some pretty good products. Like steve said, their pale "fit's the bill pretty well as an APA." Across their whole product line are quality products.

Before you go dimissing Honker's, do yourself a favor & get pint on tap. The draft is much better than the bottle anyway.
Many problems with microbrews happen with old packages. Since many do not have preservatives, it is possible that your bad experience was with some out-of-date product.

[NathanEquall]

WOW! On page 3 hops99 wrote about not liking SN's Celebration Ale, I wasn't going to say anything, but man, I love that beer. I'm already missing it, and it's only April.

[PCaravan]

I love beer in general and am willing to try just about any beer and give it a fair chance. But I have yet to try any Belgium style beer that I liked. To be fair, I've only tried about 3 or 4 that I knew were made to a Belgium style and none of them were actually made in Belgium and I'm told there is a difference but until I'm convinced otherwise I'm not buying any or making any of my own. I hated those that I tried that much!!

OK, I got to try 3 more belgium style beer (homebrews) this last weekend and still absolutely terrible. I was told they were a dupple, a tripple, and an abby. What's worse about it is that I can't understand why someone would think that is good. How do you describe that taste profile that sets these apart? I've tried to come up with the words but I just have no comparison. What belgium beer have I not tried yet that would be better, at least to me, than these? To many real beer drinkers really like belgium beer for me to say it's bad but man is what I've tried so far bad to me!

[hops99]

WOW! On page 3 hops99 wrote about not liking SN's Celebration Ale, I wasn't going to say anything, but man, I love that beer. I'm already missing it, and it's only April.

I know, I know. I must have been dropped on my head as a baby one time too many. Actually, I STILL have a couple sixers of the '02 Celebration in my basement....

[fretlessman71]

Originally posted by hops99
I know, I know. I must have been dropped on my head as a baby one time too many. Actually, I STILL have a couple sixers of the '02 Celebration in my basement....

You better hit the swap meet section... I'm sure you'd have some takers!

[Beerconnoisseur]

Originally posted by PCaravan
OK, I got to try 3 more belgium style beer (homebrews) this last weekend and still absolutely terrible. I was told they were a dupple, a tripple, and an abby. What's worse about it is that I can't understand why someone would think that is good. How do you describe that taste profile that sets these apart? I've tried to come up with the words but I just have no comparison. What belgium beer have I not tried yet that would be better, at least to me, than these? To many real beer drinkers really like belgium beer for me to say it's bad but man is what I've tried so far bad to me!

The belgian beers tend to have phenolic flavors, which certainly doesn't please every palate. I'd recommend a good lambic, like Lindemann's Kriek (cherry) for an interesting blend of sour/cherry flavors. You can even mix it w/ a chocolate stout, like Young's, and have a dessert beer. Mmmm :)

And while, strictly speaking, it's not from Belgium, Heineken Special Dark is a good, clean, session beer.

[steveh]

Originally posted by Beerconnoisseur
The belgian beers tend to have phenolic flavors, which certainly doesn't please every palate. I'd recommend a good lambic, like Lindemann's Kriek (cherry) for an interesting blend of sour/cherry flavors.

Tripels and Dubbels should not have phenolic flavors at all - sometimes clove and other spices may be present, but they're usually slightly estery (fruity) and very malty in flavor - the Trips having pronounced alcohol, of course.

Lambics are completely different beers and comparing them to the Trips, Dubbs, or Abbeys would be apples and oranges for the most part.

What Caravan needs to tell us is what he didn't like about these styles and what styles of beer he does like. If big maltiness with little hops aren't his pint of ale, maybe a sour, fruit-juice Lambic or Kriek is more in his liking, but I'll bet they're taking a step further into the realm of "non-beer" flavored beer than he (she?) is expecting.

S.

Note: of course, the fact that home-brews are being used as a benchmark can add a whole new dimension to what impressions are being made.

[Herb Ninja]

Originally posted by Beerconnoisseur
I'd recommend a good lambic, like Lindemann's Kriek (cherry) for an interesting blend of sour/cherry flavors.

I don't mind Lindemans Kriek, in fact I will drink it with pleasure, but to recommend it as a "good lambic" would be going too far. Good lambics are made by Oud Beersel, Cantillion, ect... Lindemans makes mediocre lambics, at best. Peace, HN-

[SAustinTX]

Originally posted by steveh
Compared to or with what? What beer do you usually drink? I can understand thinking that the Honkers is "just another American Pale Ale," but it fits the bill pretty well - and better than quite a few out there.

AFA no one down there drinking it, there's no accounting for taste anywhere in the world - the majority in this country drink swill and turn their noses up at anything "different." Oh well, all the more for those of us in-the-know.

S.

Well, the Sierra Nevada obviously, but I also drink a lot of Flying Dog and the occasional Breckenridge. Honestly I've tried a lot of pale ales and I can't think of any that had a blander taste the Honkers. I'd be willing to give it another shot, but for the record I did try it several times in different bars over the span of 3-4 months before I gave up on it (also never had it on bottle).

[steveh]

Originally posted by SAustinTX
Well, the Sierra Nevada obviously, but I also drink a lot of Flying Dog and the occasional Breckenridge. Honestly I've tried a lot of pale ales and I can't think of any that had a blander taste the Honkers. I'd be willing to give it another shot, but for the record I did try it several times in different bars over the span of 3-4 months before I gave up on it (also never had it on bottle).

Blander? Hmm. I'd put the Honkers right up there with SNPA - in fact, I did a few weeks ago with dinner (both on draft). The Honkers probably has less Cascades, thus having less citrus character, and I think it has the tell-tale roasted malt character (though not heavy) G.I. beers seem to be taking on - certainly not bland in my mind.

I'd stack it against and over Breckenridge any day. And there are some over at Tasting Notes that are pretty unimpressed with Flying Dog these days - I've yet to give it a try myself.

I guess I always keep in mind that Honkers is just a pale ale - not an IPA (though G.I. has one as well), not an IIPA, or some Super-90-Alpha-Octane IPA. Nor is it a SNPA pretender, it stands on its own and I find it a pretty good representation of the style (all civic pride aside).

S.

[fretlessman71]

Flying Dog is strange... I think their PA is great, but I think I also might have gotten my hands on a bad bottle or two. Same with their porter. I think the deciding factor is freshness with their products - get 'em while they're hot (off the presses)!

[davesarman]

Some other people have noted this beer, but I'll repeat it...Sam Adams Triple Bock. I was quite enamored with this beer when it first came out and my palate was not very sophisticated. As a result I ended up purchasing a couple cases of the stuff. Couldn't bring myself to throw it away however, so now I use it mainly for cooking. For example, right now I have some ribs marinating in a concoction of a bottle of the Triple Bock, molasses, homemade mustard, vinegar bayleaves, and chopped up onions. I'll let the ribs marinate for a day or two and slow roast them on Sunday probably. Yum, yum!

[SAustinTX]

Originally posted by steveh
Blander? Hmm. I'd put the Honkers right up there with SNPA - in fact, I did a few weeks ago with dinner (both on draft). The Honkers probably has less Cascades, thus having less citrus character, and I think it has the tell-tale roasted malt character (though not heavy) G.I. beers seem to be taking on - certainly not bland in my mind.

I'd stack it against and over Breckenridge any day. And there are some over at Tasting Notes that are pretty unimpressed with Flying Dog these days - I've yet to give it a try myself.

I guess I always keep in mind that Honkers is just a pale ale - not an IPA (though G.I. has one as well), not an IIPA, or some Super-90-Alpha-Octane IPA. Nor is it a SNPA pretender, it stands on its own and I find it a pretty good representation of the style (all civic pride aside).

S.

I might have to give it another try if I can still find it. They may have just had a bad batch or something, because when I say bland I mean that it tasted something like Fosters if Fosters was an ale rather than a lager. I usually always give a well regarded beer a second chance since you can never assume that that first try is a representative example, but like I said.. I did try it several times at several places around town before writing it off.

[SAustinTX]

Originally posted by fretlessman71
Flying Dog is strange... I think their PA is great, but I think I also might have gotten my hands on a bad bottle or two. Same with their porter. I think the deciding factor is freshness with their products - get 'em while they're hot (off the presses)!

Doesn't Flying Dog have the brew date listed on the bottle? I seem to recall one of those hole punch setups on the back edge of the label.

[PCaravan]

What Caravan needs to tell us is what he didn't like about these styles and what styles of beer he does like. If big maltiness with little hops aren't his pint of ale, maybe a sour, fruit-juice Lambic or Kriek is more in his liking, but I'll bet they're taking a step further into the realm of "non-beer" flavored beer than he (she?) is expecting.

OK, I like anything along the lines of a Pale Ale and that includes APA, EPA, ESB, bitter. Brown Ales are good too. I like stouts and porters. I also like dobblebocks and dunkels. Someone mentioned Hieneken Dark... that used to be one my favorites before I discovered homebrewing. I don't tend to like fruit beers.

As I've said before, there is a quality that I can't put into words that every belgiun beer I've had has and it's something that is very off putting to me.

[chazwicke]

Originally posted by Herb Ninja
I don't mind Lindemans Kriek, in fact I will drink it with pleasure, but to recommend it as a "good lambic" would be going too far. Good lambics are made by Oud Beersel, Cantillion, ect... Lindemans makes mediocre lambics, at best. Peace, HN-

You said it buddy!!

[chazwicke]

Originally posted by davesarman
Some other people have noted this beer, but I'll repeat it...Sam Adams Triple Bock. I was quite enamored with this beer when it first came out and my palate was not very sophisticated. As a result I ended up purchasing a couple cases of the stuff. Couldn't bring myself to throw it away however, so now I use it mainly for cooking. For example, right now I have some ribs marinating in a concoction of a bottle of the Triple Bock, molasses, homemade mustard, vinegar bayleaves, and chopped up onions. I'll let the ribs marinate for a day or two and slow roast them on Sunday probably. Yum, yum!

I have several cases from the first two batches too. I have not tried it since it came out. Mine has been cellaring. I'll break one out soon and give it a try. If not, I think your recipe sounds good.

[fretlessman71]

I've heard that the Sam Adams Triple Bock is good for making truffle type desserts as well. Hmm.... alcoholic soy sauce and chocolate..... HMMMMM......

[kovan]

OK, I may get shot for this but Last evening I tried the Ommegang
three philosophers quad. I suppose this is the first time I have had a quad.
The closest I have had was Chimay blue which I love.
So I poured the thing, had a nice Tan head, nice dark body.
Not a bad nose. Everything was looking good. Took a sip the palatte wasn't too bad. Then came the finish, the pleasant taste of slightly chilled puke.
Oh man, I found this very bitter and black tasting, left me with the taste of the morning after a teenage frat party.

All I could think of was some guys post on here talking about passing his father one of the beers he liked and his dad saying "god that tastes like vomit".
I truly hope that is not the case for all of the ABT's otherwise I am going to be real disappointed in my westy 12's.

[lost identity]

duchesse de burgoune --spelled something like that -a belgian known for its distinct vinegar flavor. not a fan at all, actually the taste was appalling but i will try it again some day in hopes of maybe aquiring a taste. has anyone else had this?

[s00z]

Originally posted by chazwicke
I have several cases from the first two batches too. I have not tried it since it came out. Mine has been cellaring. I'll break one out soon and give it a try. If not, I think your recipe sounds good.

Chaz - it was my understanding that this beer was supposed to be cellared. Like, at this point in time, the 95's should be just about ready. Perhaps that is what many folks found unappealing with this beer - that is wasn't READY for consumption at the time?

BeerGal

[BluesHarp]

Originally posted by s00z
Chaz - it was my understanding that this beer was supposed to be cellared. Like, at this point in time, the 95's should be just about ready. Perhaps that is what many folks found unappealing with this beer - that is wasn't READY for consumption at the time?

BeerGal

Same deal with Three Floyds Darklord Imperial Stout...tasted a little nasty fresh from the brewery; in fact, my bottles from last year (actually early 2004) still haven't completely settled out.
I may have some for X-mas...just to check their progress.;)

[chazwicke]

Originally posted by s00z
Chaz - it was my understanding that this beer was supposed to be cellared. Like, at this point in time, the 95's should be just about ready. Perhaps that is what many folks found unappealing with this beer - that is wasn't READY for consumption at the time?

BeerGal

Yep, I've had mine cellering waiting to hear a report that they might be coming of age.

[fretlessman71]

Anyone have a Fischer beer? I got a brown bomber bottle of an amber lager (I think it's a French brewery) with a really cool flip top, tried the beer, and SKUNK, SKUNK, SKUNK. Even the inherent flavor of the beer, if you could taste past the skunk, was like wet cardboard. I really dug the bottle, but I poured the beer down the drain. Is heat also at fault when it comes to skunking beer that isn't susceptible to being lightstruck? Or could it happen with enough light anyway?

[chazwicke]

Fischer out of Strasbourg? I've had it there and it was palatable. This was a few years back.

[fretlessman71]

Bottle says it was from Schiltgheim, wherever that is... maybe that "L" doesn't belong in the title, if you know what I mean. If I knew that their beer was better than my sample, then for $2.69 it would be worth it for the beer and the bottle... otherwise I'll just be patient and get a corny keg someday when my income starts to overtake my outgo. :(

[BluesHarp]

I haven't had Fischer in years, but I remember it being a pretty decent beer; it had a nice nutty quality to it.
It was actually about 15 years ago now that I think of it...so alot could have changed, or maybe you just got an old bottle...

[fretlessman71]

If I get enough re-endorsements I'll give it another shot, I suppose... I just remember thinking that there was NO WAY this could be that bad... and it was. It really takes a lot for me to dump out a beer.

[toneyc]

I had a couple of the Fischer Amber 22 oz flip-top bottles a few months ago. One for me and one for my brother. I think we both ended up pouring out about half. It wasn't skunked, it just wasn't very good. $2.69 wasn't too terribly bad for a 22 oz flip-top.

:)
Toney.

[chazwicke]

Originally posted by QCbeerguy
Two "good" beers come to mind. The first St. Pauli Girl beer, wretched. The second is Spotted Cow by New Glarus Brewing in New Glarus, WI. It was a total disappointment, a poor larger. What makes it even more disappointing is that the rest of their beers are absolutly outstanding. Especially the cherry and Native ales.

I had a Spotted Cow the other night and I gotta say I too was disappointed. The smell of corn and the taste of this brew took me back to my early days of drinking (Early 70s) and the taste of Schlitz Malt Liquor. No SC is not a malt liquor but I guess they use just enough corn in it to give it that tinge. I can't get by it. I just can't. I had the same reaction to a greater degree when DFH introduced it's corn made Malt Liquor Liquor de Malt. Again I know SC is not a malt liquor. It just brings back too many memories of the days cutting my teeth on crap beer in the era when good beer was hard to be had. We all need to greatful those days are behind us. I'm guessing that Coors or Miller must taste like this too. It has been soooo long since I last tried one of them.

[Stonch]

I didn't hate it, but I tried my first bottle of Anchor Porter last night and thought it was decidedly substandard - porter's my favourite style and I was expecting a lot from this one, and was sadly disappointed.

Cheers
__________________
Visit my beer blog - http://stonch.blogspot.com

[Stonch]

Originally posted by steveh
Stella Artois. This beer was a big rage in the Chi area a couple years ago - it was even getting onto taps in some of the most blue collar places. Knowing the likes of Belgian beers such as Hoegarten and Pierre Cellis' later brews, I opted to give it a chance. What a lackluster brew - it was completely ho-hum, and now I know why it was popular among those who wanted to *look* like beer connoisseurs.

S.

Stella a.k.a. "wife beater" in England where it's one of the best selling beers - rancid stuff.

Cheers
__________________
Visit my beer blog - http://stonch.blogspot.com

[ClockworkOrange]

Chaz,
I tried the Spotted Cow a few weeks ago and was really let down by it as well. It's hard to believe this is the same brewery that makes Belgian Red and Raspberry Tart, both of which are really nice.

[corkybstewart]

I had a Rodenbach Grand Cru last year in Belgium, and I was disappointed at it's relative sweetness. And in general bottled English beers that I've read about don't seem to make it here intact, or they aren't to my taste to begin with.

[steveh]

Originally posted by Stonch
I didn't hate it, but I tried my first bottle of Anchor Porter last night and thought it was decidedly substandard - porter's my favourite style and I was expecting a lot from this one, and was sadly disappointed.


I think the bottle you sampled must not have survived the trip across the ocean. Anchor's Porter is one of the best around, I'd stand it up (fresh, of course) to Fuller's Porter.

S.

[steveh]

Originally posted by chazwicke
I had a Spotted Cow the other night and I gotta say I too was disappointed.

I mentioned this in one of the other threads where you mentioned this, but I'll reiterate (without being terribly redundant); the Spotted Cow on tap is ver nice, less corny and close to an English bitter in style and quality - when served at a proper temperature.

S.

[chazwicke]

I'm glad to hear that. A friend gave me the bottle that I tried. I have 3 other New Glarus beers in my fridge from her as well. She travels to WI often. I've had NG beers on tap my last trip to Green Bay but that was some years ago. They were guesting at Titletown. And they have been availble at the Brickskeller too. I guess I just never had tried the Spotted Cow before. As soon as I smelled it and then that first taste I was turned off. I'll give it another go when I can try it on tap. It was rated fairly well on BA.

[cattersley]

I liked Stella when I lived in England... The one beer that seems popular, since I have seen in Canada, the U.S., the U.K., Spain, and Bermuda was Dragon Stout. It is horrible!

- cattersley.

[thirstysomethin]

Harp. I have such high(ish) hopes everytime I have one and am consistently disappointed. Just..boring.

Jack

[ontap78]

Moose Drool. I don't "hate" it, but I'm not a big fan of any of their beers. Same with Flying Dog products. There's something about them that I just don't really care for.

[chazwicke]

Originally posted by steveh
I mentioned this in one of the other threads where you mentioned this, but I'll reiterate (without being terribly redundant); the Spotted Cow on tap is ver nice, less corny and close to an English bitter in style and quality - when served at a proper temperature.

S.

I had the Yokel last evening and it was very good. A clean taste of sweet malt and a hint of lemon in the finish. It was loaded with yeast which swirled around in the glass. This one makes up for the Spotted Cow. Other than eye appeal, I think many new craft beer drinkers could be recruited with this beer. I liked it.

[steveh]

The Spotted Cow should have had a lot of suspended yeast too.

The Yokel is basically a Mild, isn't it?

S.

[M.K. Jeeves]

Tastes are subjective. It's apparent that you can't answer this thread with out stepping on someone's toes, or harpooning a sacred cow or three. Having said that my vote in this category is La fin Du Monde by Unibroue.
All I could taste were yeast and alcohol.
Should have been named La Fin Du $9.00.

[chazwicke]

Originally posted by steveh
The Spotted Cow should have had a lot of suspended yeast too.

The Yokel is basically a Mild, isn't it?

S.

I would say it does fall into the mild catagory however I don't know the ABV. BA does not have the ABV listed either. Anyone know what it is? BA calls it a Keller Bier / Zwickel Bier. I would agree that is what it appears to be too. I did not notice the suspended yeast in the Spotted Cow. I really just had a hard time with the nose. My son drank it as I could not. I'm sure it has more to do with my old drinking memories from the 70s. I liked the Yokel and think it would be a great hot weather brew. I was not too concerned with the suspended yeast however it was disconcerting to see chunks of it rather than a haze. I did like this brew. I've got two more NG beers in my fridge to try. Not sure which they are right now though. (I'm at the office)

[steveh]

Originally posted by chazwicke
Anyone know what it is? BA calls it a Keller Bier / Zwickel Bier.

Kellerbier! That's right, because they used to have a Zwickel in the past that was quite good. BTW, the NG website says 4.7%, don't know why BA can't find it.

http://www.newglarusbrewing.com/beers/Yokel.html

M.K., you're right about subjective tastes, but don't be afraid to step on toes, we all like what we like. Personally, I thought the LFdM was wonderful, you didn't sample it too cold did you? You'd definitely taste nothing but the alcohol.

S.

[jjpm74]

Founders Breakfast Stout. The taste reminded me of what a garbage pail full of day old coffee rinds smells like.

[chazwicke]

Originally posted by steveh

M.K., you're right about subjective tastes, but don't be afraid to step on toes, we all like what we like. .

S.

Agreed. Beer, like music, is very subjective.

[steveh]

Originally posted by jjpm74
Founders Breakfast Stout.

Man, you guys are killing me - I loved this stuff: not just for breakfast (http://www.realbeer.com/discussions/showthread.php?s=&threadid=6429&highlight=Founders) any more!

Does anyone know if they change the recipe on this every year?

S.

[hops99]

I love the Breakfast Stout too, and the "Kentucky" Breakfast Stout takes it to another level.

[hops99]

Which reminds me, I'll be drinking copious amounts of that nectar at the Michigan Winter Beer Fest in a couple of weeks...

[jjpm74]

Originally posted by steveh
Man, you guys are killing me - I loved this stuff: not just for breakfast (http://www.realbeer.com/discussions/showthread.php?s=&threadid=6429&highlight=Founders) any more!

Does anyone know if they change the recipe on this every year?

S.

After the first time I tried it, I thought maybe I just had a bad bottle so I tried it a few more times after that. It just doesn't do it for me. I'm not crazy about the Alesmith RIS either, but in that case, it's alcohol burn and not coffee aromas that get to me. In general, I'm not into big beers. I tend to favor beers that are under 9% ABV and most of what I drink regularly is under 7%.

[staronstage]

Aecht Schlenkerla Rauchbier

http://www.schlenkerla.de/

I'm not sure if anyone considers this a known "good" beer, but it is the worst I've ever had. Beyond bad and undrinkable.

[Dextolen]

ANY pumpkin ale.

After reading that Saison DuPont was the best beer in the world I was underwhelmed. Don't know if it's my lack of appreciation for Saisons (never had one before) or what. I didn't 'absolutely hate it' but it was not as exciting as I thought it would be.

[steveh]

Originally posted by staronstage
Aecht Schlenkerla Rauchbier. Beyond bad and undrinkable.

Once again, to each his own (and maybe you got an old bottle), but I love Schlenkerla Rauch, it's smooth and robust and full of flavor. Ask Chaz, at the source (with a nice Bamberg Onion for lunch) it's even more wonderful.

Nowhere beyond bad, see if you can find a fresh bottle and give it a chance. Read up on the style and know what to expect, then give it a go. Even try it with a nice grilled porkchop or brats, even ribs.

OTOH - Dex, I totally agree with you on the Pumpkin crud.

S.

[steveh]

Originally posted by jjpm74
In general, I'm not into big beers.

Nor am I, but the Breakfast Stout was one of those that stood out; smooth, creamy, sweet, with just the right amount of octane that didn't punch you in the nose to get your attention.

S.

[chazwicke]

Originally posted by steveh
Once again, to each his own (and maybe you got an old bottle), but I love Schlenkerla Rauch, it's smooth and robust and full of flavor. Ask Chaz, at the source (with a nice Bamberg Onion for lunch) it's even more wonderful.

Nowhere beyond bad, see if you can find a fresh bottle and give it a chance. Read up on the style and know what to expect, then give it a go. Even try it with a nice grilled porkchop or brats, even ribs.



S.

I'm with Steveh on this one. This can be a sublime brew. My single best beer drinking experience of all time was with Schlenkerla on fine October morning in Bamberg. I know of three versions that are available in the States. And I have encountered a bad or not fresh bottle or two over the years. Smoked beer may not be for everyone but Bamberg which is famous for it's smoked beers is my top priority next time I'm back in Germany.

[chazwicke]

Originally posted by jjpm74
In general, I'm not into big beers. I tend to favor beers that are under 9% ABV and most of what I drink regularly is under 7%.

I hear ya. While I do drink those big beers on occasion I prefer under 5 -5 1/2%.

[ClockworkOrange]

I also love the Schlenkerla Rauchbiers. I just enjoyed one (urbock) last week with a pulled pork BBQ sandwich. I have to say though, the Sly Fox Rauch is no slouch :D and Victory's Scarlet Fire is really tasty as well.

[chazwicke]

The Sly Fox Rauch is the closest I've come in America to that October morning in Bamberg. When I first tried this brew, I got goosebumps. Sly Fox is a great little brewery. I had the Rauch at the Pheonixville location. I've not had Victory's yet. But the if the Rauch is on at Sly Fox it would be worth it for me to make the drive to get some.

[jjpm74]

Originally posted by chazwicke
The Sly Fox Rauch is the closest I've come in America to that October morning in Bamberg. When I first tried this brew, I got goosebumps. Sly Fox is a great little brewery. I had the Rauch at the Pheonixville location. I've not had Victory's yet. But the if the Rauch is on at Sly Fox it would be worth it for me to make the drive to get some.

Iron Hill's Rauchbier is the closest I've ever tasted in the US to a Bamberg smoked. It also weighs in at under 4% ABV and is one of the most flavorful beers I've ever have. It's usually available at the North Whales location and is definitely worth a try the next time they have it on if you like smoked beers.

[chazwicke]

I'll definitely look for it. I like the style much and am happy to see American brewers take up the style. I know Sly Fox gets their smoked malt from Bamberg. I wonder if Iron Hill and Victory get theirs from the same source. I think Rauchs go good with turkey and turkey dishes so I usually bring some for Thanksgiving. But I like it year round.

Alaskan Smoked Porter is pretty good too.

[TrojanAnteater]

a couple I wholeheartedly agree with were listed on the first couple pages, both from Anderson Valley.... The Winter Solstice- which was so vanilla-y that I couldn't finish it, and their Barney Flats Oatmeal Stout which was hardly different than a porter. The Oatmeal stout wasn't undrinkable, in fact it was an OK beer, but since I was expecting a good oatmeal stout, it was a huge letdown.

[ratman03]

Originally posted by staronstage
Aecht Schlenkerla Rauchbier

http://www.schlenkerla.de/

I'm not sure if anyone considers this a known "good" beer, but it is the worst I've ever had. Beyond bad and undrinkable.

Yeah dude, you've got to be kidding -- this stuff is delicious! Try it again with some BBQ and get back to us.

[ratman03]

I'll bet someone has mentioned this somewhere in the first 17 pages of this thread but it bears repeating:

Give a beer a chance! There are a handful of beers that I have tasted, and knew were good, but realized I hadn't yet acquired a taste for them.

For example, I didn't like Jubelale from Deschutes Brewery initially. Later on in the week, halfway through the six-pack, I decided that it is an absolutely delicious ale. It has since become my favorite xmas seasonal.

I recently bought some Smuttynose Winter Ale. They brew it with a Belgian yeast, which lends an unusual fruity character to this beer. I flat out did not like it at first; I felt that the yeast character didn't blend well with the malt. But, as is often the case with quality beer, the taste grew on me. I will buy it again.

My rule of thumb is to give a beer at least 3 chances -- on different days and in different settings, if possible -- to see if you like it. If you know of knowledgeable people whose opinion you trust that like a beer, there is usually a reason for this, and it behooves you to endeavor to understand those reasons. Sermon ended.

[ratman03]

Originally posted by TrojanAnteater
a couple I wholeheartedly agree with were listed on the first couple pages, both from Anderson Valley.... The Winter Solstice- which was so vanilla-y that I couldn't finish it, and their Barney Flats Oatmeal Stout which was hardly different than a porter. The Oatmeal stout wasn't undrinkable, in fact it was an OK beer, but since I was expecting a good oatmeal stout, it was a huge letdown.

I have found the same thing with Anderson's beers. I don't know if it is diacetyl that is causting this, but it really detracts from the taste.

[chazwicke]

Originally posted by ratman03
I'll bet someone has mentioned this somewhere in the first 17 pages of this thread but it bears repeating:

Give a beer a chance! There are a handful of beers that I have tasted, and knew were good, but realized I hadn't yet acquired a taste for them.

For example, I didn't like Jubelale from Deschutes Brewery initially. Later on in the week, halfway through the six-pack, I decided that it is an absolutely delicious ale. It has since become my favorite xmas seasonal.

I recently bought some Smuttynose Winter Ale. They brew it with a Belgian yeast, which lends an unusual fruity character to this beer. I flat out did not like it at first; I felt that the yeast character didn't blend well with the malt. But, as is often the case with quality beer, the taste grew on me. I will buy it again.

My rule of thumb is to give a beer at least 3 chances -- on different days and in different settings, if possible -- to see if you like it. If you know of knowledgeable people whose opinion you trust that like a beer, there is usually a reason for this, and it behooves you to endeavor to understand those reasons. Sermon ended.

I agree that more than one sample should be tried before totally writing off a beer. If you don't like it today try another at a different time. it could be the conditions that you sampled that made you not like the brew. Or a bad sample or example. I tried Spotted Cow the other night and did not like it. However It does not mean that I'll never try one again.

[jjpm74]

I also agree, though most people either end up loving or hating smoked beers, lambics, oud bruins and Flemish reds and either get them right away or never get to the point where they can appreciate them. At least that's been my experience when trying to turn people onto those types of beers.

[Jinja]

I'm not a big fan of the smoked beer - I tried a German rauschbier (sp?) once that tasted (to me) like liquid bacon. I poured it down the sink.

While I agree I should probably give it another try, I don't like smoky-flavored items in general - I don't eat bacon and I don't like BBQ with a lot of char.

I know I tried both Alaskan Smoked Porter and Stone Smoked Porter in the same night - one I enjoyed, one was too much for me.

Jinja Out

[fretlessman71]

If I don't miss my guess, the Alaskan was too smoky, right?

I met a man who lived in Alaska when most of the fires were going crazy a few years back who said, "I've had just about enough alder smoke for a few lifetimes... these porters just don't do it for me anymore."

I find more and more that women have subtler palates than the guys do. Not sure how this works, but I've seen it time and again - it's partially why women like light beers more than guys. They have stronger senses, and can actually TASTE those beers. ;)

[staronstage]

I totally agree that beers should be given multiple chances, and that there can always be the odd bottle that is "off". I am also the number one fan of the "to each their own" creed.

That being said the beer mentioned in my last post was what I would call offensive in taste.

But I also felt that way about hoppy beers 10 years ago, so maybe I'll try another rauschbier in a decade. :)