A good dry yeast

[JRN52]

I am looking for a good dry yeast. I usually use White Labs yeast and have been happy with it, but I will sometimes brew 2 or 3 batches in a weekend, and the price of the yeast is eating into my beer budget. I have not used much dry yeast, so I don't know what is good. Is there even such a thing as a really good dry yeast that will work as well as a White Labs or Wyeast? I use a lot of WLP001 California Ale yeast and I really like the results. It's clean and works well with a lot of the recipes I make. Does anyone have any suggestions on a good dry yeast that will have roughly the same flavor and characteristics as a WLP001? And how much per 5 gallon batch?

[Tweek]

if you are using the same yeast, why dont you try making a starter and just repitch? That is the ceapest method bar far.

[brewmonkey]

Try using the Nottingham Ale strain from Lallemand or SafAle S-04. I know a few of my buddies in the pubs use them both from time to time and like them.

[danno]

I recently made a braggot with Nottingham and it turned out quite nice. I paid about a buck for a pack.

But if you're happy with WLP001, I'm with Tweek, just step it up. I step up a single smack pack to use in 10 gallon batches, there's absolutely no reason you couldn't do this too. have a couple of growlers? step up a tube to 1L, then the next day decant the liquid and divide that into three, and add another L of fresh wort to each. the next day you'll have plenty of yeast for three batches...

[JRN52]

I have never tried doing the starter way. If I make a starter from the WLP001, how much do I make to allow me to pitch the current batch, (or batches) and leave enough for another starter? If I am not going to use the other half or however much is left over, how long can I store it? When I make the starter, do I make say 2 pints, pitch one of the pints and then leave the other pint in the fridge until I need it? How long will it stay good? And is a pint of the starter going to be enough? I know how to make a starter, but I don't know the right amounts and which part do I pitch? Do I shake it up to mix the yeast with the liquid and pitch 1 of 2 pints I've made and store the rest? (Man, if you can make sense of these questions, your good!!!) Can I keep making new starters from what I have left for a while, or will the strain change eventually? I have always wondered about this, (hence the 5 million questions all at once!). It would sure be nice to be able to make my own and continue the strain.

Thanks for the replies.

[JRN52]

Just read Danno's reply after I had just finished my last post. Danno, when you say "decant" it, exactly how do you do this properly? (told you I was a rookie at this part). The rest of what you said, I understand. I have read several different things about whether you should pitch the entire starter, or just the stuff on the bottom, and I have read conflicting instructions so I have never known for sure. I just figured to hell with it, buy the damn tube and pitch it! It's easier! It's time to move to the next step now I guess. (And put the money I have been spending on yeast into more of the other supplies I can't make).

Thanks

[danno]

I buy a 3 lb bag of DME for my starters. I use 1/2 cup of DME to 1L of water, boil it for 15 minutes, chill, and dump in the yeast. (I use a stir plate and oxygenate, but let's not complicate matters...) the next day, I pour off most of the clear liquid, then stir up the yeast to get it in suspension, and divide that into two flasks. here's where you would divide to three, if you wanted three flasks. I then add a fresh batch of wort (after boiling 1L, it's down to about 850ml) to each flask, and the next day I've plenty of yeast for brew day...

don't make up the DME wort ahead of time, it can easily pick up stray yeasts or bacterias, wrecking your whole batch(es).

you may want to read up on reusing yeast, because after you're done with a batch, you have this really nice yeast cake just sitting there begging for more wort to chew up. I generally don't go more than one reuse of each yeast, but that's more because of my quest for variety than a fear of mutation. but a local brew pub uses their WLP001 for nine generations before dumping it...

OK, have we cleared anything up yet?

[guildofevil]

Another method of saving on yeast, especially if one is brewing as often as you are, is to pitch your next batch of beer onto the yeast cake of the last one.
I have done this several times with great success.
It is also a really lazy method, which appeals to me.

Séan

[kevin]

Originally posted by guildofevil
It is also a really lazy method, which appeals to me.

Can't argue with that!

[toneyc]

Search on parallel propagation. Parallel propagation and repitching can stretch a vial of liquid yeast out to less than a buck a batch, easy.

:D
Toney.

[JRN52]

OK, this all makes sense. 2 more questions. Is it possible to make however many starters I need for that day plus 1 additional. Then if I drain the liquid from the extra starter (or maybe leave the liquid portion) and store it in a SEALED flask or jar in the refer, would it be OK for a week or 2? I would make a fresh starter from the saved stuff the day before using it. Could that work safely?

On the other subject, if I use the yeast bed from a previous batch, does that not change the flavor? (I do like the lazy part of that method!) There is always some hops in the yeast bed and sometimes sediment from grains I used in the previous batch. (I mostly make partial extract beer). Obviously I would have to be making the same style beer if grains were used, but what about the leftover hops in the yeast bed? Wouldn't that effect the hop levels in my recipes?

I am going to research this parallel propogation idea. Sounds like that might be the answer here.

Thanks guys.

[kevin]

if you are going to pitch onto the yeastcake in the primary the first batch should be lighter color and lower hop then the next batch could be darker and hoppier.
I do this to get my cost per yeast down to half. Also when pitching on a yeastcake a blowoff tube is advisable.

[JRN52]

I just searched for the Parallel Propogation technique as Toney C suggested, and found it in an old post. This sounds like the way to go. Real simple and sounds like it's very effective. I have reposted it below if anyone is interested. Thanks Toney C. Great advise. I'm gonna try this this weekend. (Great, now I can make all the beer I want. My wife is going to hate Toney C!!!) She already thinks I'm nuts when I sit in front of one of my carboys watching it bubble and that great swirling tornado effect going on inside! And that beautiful layer of foam. OOH,OOH,OOH! Better than numbing my mind on TV! And when this show is over, I have great beer to drink! Life is good!

Thanks again guys


Repost of Parallel Propogation technique:

PART 4: Parallel Yeast Cultures
Rick Cavasin sent me (PW) the following method of "parallel" culturing liquid yeasts. This should work with most packaged liquid yeasts, not just Wyeast. The advantages here for the beginner are that (in additon to saving money) it minimizes the problems of strain drift and contamination that can plague yeast ranchers. As for the savings, it makes liquid yeast almost as cheap as dry yeast!

Post follows:
Here's the (poor man's) method for stretching the Wyeast that I (Rick) have been using successfully. This method has worked for me with 4 different Wyeast ale strains (Whitbread, Irish, German, European). It's simple, and requires no special equipment. Also, it allows several brewers to swap yeasts with each brewer propagating one strain.

Briefly, my suggestion consists of converting the original Wyeast package into a number of 'copies' stored in beer bottles. ie. it is a parallel propagation rather than a serial propagation

Step 1: Prepare some starter wort (S.G. = 1.020), see Miller's book for recipe. Basically, you need about 1/2 gallon, but if you make more and can it in mason jars (using standard canning procedures), you will not have to prepare more at a later date. Note from PW--Most authorities now recommend using full strength (1.040), hopped wort for starters.

Step 2: Place 1/2 gallon or so of starter wort in a suitable container (1 gallon glass jug), pitch (inflated) Wyeast package at correct temp. and fit air lock. This is the 'master' starter.

Step 3: Allow to ferment to *completion*. When fermentation has ceased, agitate the 'beer' to suspend all sendiment, and very carefully bottle it.
You will now have about 6 bottles of very thin beer with a good deal of viable yeast sediment in each bottle. Use each bottle as you would use a package of Wyeast - ie. prepare a starter culture a couple days before brewing. This is facilitated by canning wort when you prepare the master starter. All you need to in that case is pop open a mason jar of wort, dump it into a sanitized bottle/jug of appropriate size, pop open one of your bottle cultures, add it, agitate vigorously, and fit an air lock. All yeast starters are of the same 'generation', ie. 'twice removed' from the original Wyeast package (as opposed to the usual 'once removed'). I've had the bottled cultures remain viable for more than 6 months. Observe proper sanitation and wort aeration procedures thoughout. Equipment: 1 gallon jug (for 'master' starter) 1.5 litre wine bottle (for subsequent starters) air lock 6 beer bottles, caps and capper Optional equipment: mason jars and canning pot. Cheers, Rick C.