Add Extract late method and questions.

[AZDesertRat]

I am brewing a Brewers Best Continental Pilsner tomorrow and want to try the "Extract Late" method described in the Oct 04 BYO magazine. I am looking for a light color and taste for those of my friends who don't know what good beer really is. In BYO they talk about adding half of the extract at "Knockout". When is that? Is it when you turn the flame off? Next thing is does it make a difference if its DME or LME, the kit contains both. Should I add all of one or the other in the beginning and the other at the end or 1/2 of each or......?
Acording to the magazine the results were very good for lighter coloration but for a newbie it could have had a few more details. Something else I have never tried is any water chemisty additions like irish moss gypsum or gelatin, would I benefit from any of these? BTW I will be kegging this batch if it makes any difference.

[danno]

DME needs to be boiled, so if your recipe calls for it, it needs at least 15 minutes of boiling time. LME is already boiled, so can be added at knockout, flameout, or whatever term you use to indicate the end of your boiling period...

I use irish moss, i've never felt the need to try any of that other stuff...

*edit* rereading your second section, don't mess around with your water chemistry unless you really understand what you're doing. extract rarely needs changing, other than eliminating chlorine/chloramine. irish moss doesn't affect water chemistry, it's simply a clarifying agent...

[Grog]

You are correct that knock out is when you turn off the burner.

I would boil the DME portion and late extract the liquid.

Irish moss and gelatin are clarifiiers (although they are added at different times in the brewing process) and not water treatments.

Gypsum is used to treat water, but is probably not the appropriate water treatment for a Continental Pilsner.

Other than that, the extract late method works fairly well and should give you the benefits you are looking for.

Happy brewing!

[AZDesertRat]

The reason I ask about gypsum and other products is the water here in Phoenix is extremely hard so I use an RO unit which takes my TDS from 650 down to 13 so there is not much hardness left. Maybe I should blend my water or just stick with the tapwater? Our water is good to drink and doesn't contain lots of other things other than it is so hard you can cut it with a knife.

[danno]

go check out Palmer's chapter on water for extract brewing (http://www.howtobrew.com/section1/chapter4.html), it should help you out...

[BluesHarp]

I've started adding LME during the last 5-10 minutes; it definitely has reduced the infamous extract flavor that most extract home brews have to some degree.

Next batch I may try adding at flameout to see if the benefits increase.

[Joe D]

The one thing I found out that gypsum does is bring out the hoppiness of your beer. I have started using it in my IPA's and any other beers that I want the hops to stand out in.

[BrewDog]

Welcome to the Board, Joe D-
You are right about Gypsum bringing out hoppiness.

AZ-
I agree with Danno- don't screw with your water chemistry unless you have _need_ to. This usually is because you are doing All-Grain and need to fix your mash ph, OR you know exactly what your water profile is and it contradicts the beer you are going to be brewing. (RO water in a pils is actually in line with style, not against it.)

BluesHarp gave a good example of bringing out hoppiness by adding gypsum (Calcium Sulphate) to his low-sulphate water.
Grog alluded to this in his post, too. High sulphates and extra hoppiness are not present in continental pilseners, so gypsum is not the thing you would need to add to your beer.

BTW, Gelatin is used as a clarifier in the secondary or finished package, Irish moss is used to help hot break form in the last 15 mins of the boil.

HTH-

[barleypopmaker]

Do you think you could boil your water/grain tea and add your hops, then add your DME (if your using it) with 15 min left in the boil then add your LME at Flame out?(Basically no extract for 45min in boil) I have been adding LME with 15 min left in the boil, but I was adding half at the beginning of the boil, and the rest at the end of the boil. Any Ideas on this? You would still be boiling your bittering hops for an hour, so I don't see a problem.

[HogieWan]

Originally posted by Joe D
The one thing I found out that gypsum does is bring out the hoppiness of your beer.

by hoppiness, are you talking about flavor, or bitterness, or aroma?

[BrewDog]

Originally posted by HogieWan
by hoppiness, are you talking about flavor, or bitterness, or aroma?

Mostly flavor and bitterness.

[fuji6100]

Do you think you could boil your water/grain tea and add your hops, then add your DME (if your using it) with 15 min left in the boil then add your LME at Flame out?(Basically no extract for 45min in boil) I have been adding LME with 15 min left in the boil, but I was adding half at the beginning of the boil, and the rest at the end of the boil. Any Ideas on this? You would still be boiling your bittering hops for an hour, so I don't see a problem.

You could do this but you would have to adjust your hops to hit your target IBU since the utilization would increase with a lower SG boil.

[bruin_ale]

Really, lower SG boil gives more hop utliization? No wonder! I've since switched to all-grain, but my last extract beer was a mini-mash where I mashed two lbs of munich malt and used that for the boil and added LME at flameout. It was a kit beer and I thought it'd be pretty mild (as most with my LHBS are), so I was amazed how much hop flavor and bitterness came through in the final brew.

[HogieWan]

that's also why you need more hops for a partial boil than you do for a full boil. In the partial boil you are working with concentratred wort and the hop utilization drops.

[barleypopmaker]

Huh......you learn something new everyday..............

Is there a general rule, or guideline for a percentage of less hops to use?

[HogieWan]

Originally posted by barleypopmaker
Huh......you learn something new everyday..............

Is there a general rule, or guideline for a percentage of less hops to use?

Yeah, I use the "go to beertools.com and let it figure that out for me" method. The "install ProMash and let it figure that out for me method" works just as well from what I've heard.