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View Full Version : slooooow primary: newbie needs help!


warmstorage
03-21-2005, 05:54 PM
on Friday (3/18) we brewed an extract batch of IPA. i've brewed before, but not in a long time, and my brother is brand new to it. more importantly, i've never been the "lead" brewer. hence, this might be about newbie nervousness. (i'm already having plenty to drink, so i'm covered there.)

we used a starter kit from the LHBS, and the (included) pre-made kit for an IPA: 6# pale malt, specialty flavoring grains, columbus bittering, cascade finishing, irish moss, and dry (rehydrated by us ~30 min early with warm water and a dash of dextrose) california ale yeast. unknown how long it had been sitting on the shelf, with the dry yeast in the package with the other stuff (so unrefridgerated.)

initial fermentation was hampered, because the guy who sold us the carboy (the PET Better Bottle) didn't give us the right size rubber cork for the airlock. so, for the first 20 or so hours, it had a ziploc bag taped tightly on. we also didn't have a correct cap, so we had to hold a (sanitized) piece of rubber over the top for the initial aeration after adding yeast, wort, and water to the carboy.

the brew itself is a dark brown, perhaps a little dense and dark due to the fact that we dropped the carboy while aerating it, and lost a good amount of volume (~1/2 gal?). so it's maybe 3.5 gallons of volume in the 5 gal carboy. i didn't want to introduce new water to it without boiling & cooling, and we didn't have any more bottled water, so we just went with the lesser volume.

initial fermentation action (~2 hours later) was quite vigorous, from looking at the brew itself: chunks were flying up and down the sides, and the ziploc got a good amount of air (CO2?) in it. this lasted until we went out to the bar, so i saw an hour at least of solid action. on return home, so ~5 hours later, no more action visible.

i got the correct cork the next day, and put it on that night, with the cheap airlock provided in our kit.

now, there is zero action, and i mean zero. nothing moving in the liquid, no activity out of the airlock. (with one exception: when i slightly moved the carboy this afternoon to check the brew and heat the towels, see next paragraph, i got ~5 minutes of bubbling out of the airlock, every 8-10 seconds!) but then it stopped completely.

possible issues: it's cold in the house, and hard to warm it up (even with the heater on all night, the thermometer on the carboy is around 65 degrees.) we have tried insulating it, and i have started putting the towels and bathmat we are using to insulate it in the dryer for 20 minutes, then replacing them. this seems to be helping some with temperature, but only to ~67-68 degrees.

second: i think the airlock is suspect: the water volume in it seems to be dropping/disappearing (ack!). today it had less then 1/4 water, when we'd started with at least 2/3 water (about 1/2 inch below the blow-spout.) so today i pulled it off, (re-sanitized it), and re-filled it with cheap vodka. my suspicions were confirmed about there being an apparent leak when some of the vodka promptly dropped into the brew (ack! ack!). it's the econo-style, 3-piece airlock with a beaker, and smaller beaker placed into it. unfortunately, it didn't come with the third piece, the cap, but seemed to form a good seal with the smaller, upside down beaker and the water.

i'm open to any and all suggestions.

i am thinking about repitching new, rehydrated yeast, and/or re-agitating the carboy a bit, but have few other ideas. i can buy another airlock, i guess.

unfortunately, the only LHBS isn't very helpful, or very close (a 45 minute drive each way without traffic, as much as an hour and a half with traffic.) they are a little surly and disinterested, and not very interested in helping out with troubleshooting.

thanks!

Wilson
03-21-2005, 06:18 PM
Well, I would bet that you may be done fermenting. You did see some action so that means the yeast worked. Your next move if I were you would be to check the gravity. See if its low enough. The airlock didnt come with a cap?! I would probably get one. But I bet that even though you are not seeing a lot of airlock activity, it still fermenting. Checking gravity is the only way to know for sure.

If its not done, you could get some more yeast and re-pitch. The fact that it was unrefrigerated makes suspect the yeast, but you did get some initial action. Tough one.

Good luck!

SoxyinMO
03-21-2005, 06:28 PM
And check into another HBS! Many of us use on-line services and have found them reputable and helpful, even long distance.

ray m
03-22-2005, 09:29 AM
I'm with Soxy.....that LHBS you went to sounds downright shitty to me. Apparently the dude at the store was just interested in throwing some stuff together for you so he could make fast bucks and get you the hell up out of his grille. No cap for the airlock and the wrong size bung for the fermenter bottle.....nice customer service, there. It's obvious he didn't give a rat's behind about you being properly taken care of.

OK....done ranting. I think you're probably done fermenting, too. It sounded like with the set-up you had, CO2 had a heck of a lot of places to escape from, which is why you didn't see anything in the "airlock". Do what Wilson said & check your gravity. If it's still high, repitch another packet of yeast.

mikfaria
03-23-2005, 02:54 AM
Yep,

I've been done in 2 days and 2 weeks. It depends on the beer, yeasy adn conditions.
It was suggested that you check you gravity readings.
if the kit was short parts...why not bad ingredients?

fuji6100
03-24-2005, 02:30 PM
I've always noticed that fermentation tends to finish faster with dry yeasts, rather than the longer, but more steady fermentation of the liquid cultures.

I would agree with the others that it is quite possible that your fermentation is done (though some time to condition wouldn't hurt) but you can always check the gravity to be sure.

warmstorage
03-25-2005, 11:00 PM
rut-roh. SG, corrected for temperature, is 1.041. (OG was 1.056, predicted FG is 1.012 per the kit directions).

of note is that it's a VERY concentrated brew, and has been since day one: maybe 2.75 gallons in a five gal. carboy, due to spillage, and poor design by me, the brewer (used too little water for speciality grains, and too little water in the wort, and probably too little plain water in the carboy). could this concentration account for a (much) higher than expected SG?

unable to resist, i sampled a SMALL bit after testing gravity and temperature. definite hop/floral nose (notes: 0.5 ounces of Fuggles used for dry hopping, one ounce of Cascade was finishing hop, 1.5 ounces Columbus boil.) also present in the nose is a distinct (sweet) soapy smell: not unpleasant, but not beer normal.

color is great for style: a medium to dark copper, not clear, but translucent, with minimal floaties or solids visible. probably its best quality.

taste: hops noticable, slightly sweet body, and soapy flavor also in present, but no noticable "off" flavors, skunk, or spoliage (which, yes, i've tasted at least twice before, when brewing in 2000 and 2001.) finish is tangy sweet, and dry hopping distinctly noticable. the taste is sort of like cask IPA/APA, with a hint of old ale or barleywine sweetness, though not alcohol.

aftertaste lingers LONG: still in my mouth after almost a minute. no noticable carbonation, but this is no surprise. mouthfeel is slightly slick and full, but not unpleasant.

brother and his girlfriend agree with my notes, and girlfriend notes distinct soapiness. she volunteered that it was sort of like a barleywine (again, specifying sweetness/tanginess, not alcohol.)

it's not great beer, by any means, but it's not spolied, either. (if i was at a new, unknown brewpub and ordered a cask IPA or west coast style APA, this wouldn't shock me to taste like this. of course, i also wouldn't be happy with paying $4 for a pint of it, but...)

for now, i'm leaving it in secondary (racked to on day three with fermentation activity stopped.) i'll be curious to see what happens to this little experiment.

thoughts? recommendations? i'm willing to re-pitch more yeast, but I'm unwilling to go back to the LHBS (see below), so this would have to wait a few days.

in other news, I went back to the LHBS to get a 'thief' to test the gravity without messing around with siphoning, and a carboy cap (!) which was not included with the "super deluxe" kit. the guy was a bigger jerk than ever before. I won't go back, and i'm going to write a letter to the owner, and let him know he has lost several hundreds of dollars worth of business over the next year, since we plan to brew every other weekend or so.

thanks for all the previous and future help and ideas!

Wilson
03-25-2005, 11:28 PM
With that high a gravity, you should think about re-pitching the yeast, if its not still bubbling through the airlock. Its definetly not done. Re-pitch the yeast, and let it ferment out; since it doesnt taste bad, I dont think you have any infection problems. It'll probably work out fine!

BrewDog
03-26-2005, 01:15 AM
I second Wilson's suggestion. Pitch some new yeast. It'll probably turn out just fine.

warmstorage
03-28-2005, 02:58 AM
thanks for all the advice!

yesterday morning, i re-pitched a liquid suspension (without starter) of WL California Ale yeast. i couldn't re-check it after the 11:30am pitch due to it being at my brother's house, but today at 3pm, it's bubbling away!

there is a new 1" or so of krausening on top, particles visibly riding around in the liquid, and the airlock is bubbling around 10-15 seconds. yee-haw!

thanks again!