A-B/Bud misinfo

[Wit Memo Jeff]

Last week's Washington, DC City Paper featured a series of the new "retro" Budweiser ads on several pages that contained an astounding bit of flat wrong info about beer and its ingredients.

Either that, or I know a lot less about beer than I thought I did.

The ads consisted of one large ad preceded by two smaller ads on the same corner of successive pages, each featuring their "Smilin' Charlie" character, apparently a revival of an old ad campaign from days of yore. I didn't save the paper so I can't quote the ad exactly, but I have a feelin it'll be back

No, it wasn't the bit about "aftertaste" being a sign of stale beer. I've come to expect the mass-market breweries to boast about their lack of aftertaste.

It was, instead, Smilin' Charlie's claim that beer gets its color from hops, and that Bud's selection of hops were responsible for its pale golden color.

And here I'd been laboring under the impression that beer derived its color from the malt, and the degree to which it's been roasted.

Now, I actually like those old beer ads that Bud's been running on TV, featuring happy folk displaying foam-capped cone-shaped pilsner glasses like you don't see much anymore, but the blantantly wrong info in this recent print ad has me wondering:

Did they just plain screw up, or do they think we're all a bunch of morons?

Your thoughts are appreciated.

Jeff

[BrewDog]

I think they think we're morons.
Look at Coors Light -- the "Coldest Tasting Beer"? WTF is that all about?

Maybe they (BMC) are in a competition to see how much BS they can throw out without getting called on it.

[BrewDog]

Oh, yeah, welcome to the board, Jeff!

[Wit Memo Jeff]

Originally posted by BrewDog
I think they think we're morons.
Look at Coors Light -- the "Coldest Tasting Beer"? WTF is that all about?

Thanks for the welcome, B-dawg!

Speaking of strange cold beer campaigns, when I was in England in 2002, Guinness was running an ad campaign in the pubs called "Guinness Extra Cold."

I never did figure that one out. Made as much sense to me as Guinness Extra GOLD.

Not that there's not something appealing about a sign that says "coldest beer in town" when it's 98 degrees in the shade and the beer isn't a stout, or a barleywine.

[TrojanAnteater]

I think Coors is lying because Bud Light has to be the coldest tasting beer..... I think they have a contract with a local watering hole to serve it only in the slushee variety.:rolleyes:

[I'mRocketMan]

Originally posted by Wit Memo Jeff

Speaking of strange cold beer campaigns, when I was in England in 2002, Guinness was running an ad campaign in the pubs called "Guinness Extra Cold."
[/B]

I almost bid on a tap handle on ebay called Guinness Extra Cold. I googled the phrase and after digging for a while discovered that they tried to serve Guinness COLD ENOUGH for the American visitors!?!?!

I decided that it wasn't quite appropriate for MY kegerator and the Imperial Stout I had online! LOL!

Cheers! Rocket

BTW, welcome!!

[steveh]

Originally posted by Wit Memo Jeff
Speaking of strange cold beer campaigns, when I was in England in 2002, Guinness was running an ad campaign in the pubs called "Guinness Extra Cold."

Welcome Jeff.

I've heard that's one of Guinness' marketing ploys to compete with the (served colder) Loight Lahgas. And it's no ad campaign, they actually have a special device at the tap that chills the beer. I saw it too, even at the Gravity Bar at Guinness proper. No thanks, there are plenty of places in the U.S. already serving it too cold.

And yeah, they think we're morons. Next A/B will be marketing "Brew Kettle Dreg Bock."

S.

[zoom6zoom]

Bud's selection of hops were responsible for its pale golden color

There's hops in Bud? Never tasted any myself.

If so, must be about the same amount of hops in a tank car of Bud as you'll find in a single pint of Dogfish!

[chazwicke]

I've seen the Guinness campaign in London as well. I think they want the widget cans to be served a little colder too.

I like the fact that AB is bringing back the old can design being a former collector. But I'll bet the beer they served in the 1930s did have flavor. Unlike that product they call beer now.

I have heard that the actual tast threshold of hops is 12 IBUs and that AB hops bud to 10. Hmmm Maybe they are only using those hops to color the beer.;)

[noby]

Ahh, Guinness Extra Cold. A local pub still serves this, as I found out recently. I ordered a pint of Guinness, and the first sup was like drinking iced water, both in temp. and taste. Then I remembered why I usually buy it by the bottle in that particular pub.

I love picking holes in ad slogans
The most popular (and worst tasting) cider in Ireland, Bulmers (Magners) use the slogan "Nothing added but time"
I'm sorry, but I'm sure you've to add more than time to apples and yeast to get bright orange fizzy muck.

[davesarman]

Being a breweriana nut myself, I was kind of intrigued by the retro ad campaign being put forth by A-B. But after seeing some of the commericials on TV and hearing some of the ads on radio, I'm fairly certain they are not just replaying old ads from the 1950's and 1960's. I'm pretty sure they are brand new commericials and are using technology to "age" them and make them appear as if they were actual ads from the golden age of advertising. A-B wouldn't be the first company to do this, for sure. But for some reason I was willing to give them some credit if they were the actual old ads, but since they are most likely new ads made to "look" old, it just doesn't seem as "authentic" to me. Not that I'd buy any of their product anyway, no matter what their ad campaign is....

[chazwicke]

I think I have an old Grain Belt wooden sign with a horse shoe hanging behind the coat rack in my family room. I'll check it out.

[MeridianFC]

As I just happen to work for the publication mentioned in the initial post, I have the ad copy in front of me. The ads in question:

(p. 93 lower right 1/4page 4 color) contains the following text:

How to Judge Beer Color

The amount and variety of hops used by a brewmaster determine a lager's color, which, in a fine beer like Budweiser, should be consistently light amber, with no haze or imperfections whatsoever.

BUDWEISER

THE BEER BY WHICH everything SHOULD BE JUDGED






Notes:
[i]fine beer[i] and everything ital. in ad copy

--------------------------------------------------------------------------

(p. 95 full page 4 color) text:

How to judge BEER SNAP

Smiling Charlie Says

Fine beers should have a "snap" from natural carbonation.
A crisp finish that's refreshing and cleansing to the palate.
You will find that snap in THE BUDWEISER. You will not find,
however, what is commonly called "aftertaste." Aftertaste is
usually found in beers that are not fresh. If you find yourself
being served some "beer" possessing the aftertaste, recycle
it at once and immediately request the bright, crisp, pure
taste of THE BUDWEISER.

BUDWEISER
THE BEER BY WHICH Everything SHOULD BE JUDGED.


Notes:
punctuation per ad copy.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------

There is a third ad about freshness (p. 91) but doesn't contain in egregious factual errors.

[MeridianFC]

FWIW I think the new ads and cans look great. Utterly fantaastic acutally. They're produced by Busch Media. The beer is still piss and that ads are flat out wrong.

[Wilson]

Someone should write to A-B.

[unkle bik]

Gee..
and all this time I thought "ice" beer was the coldest.
How naive of me.

[Wit Memo Jeff]

Since starting the post I've gotten hold of a DC City Paper from two weeks back with the offending Bud ad. It occupies one quarter of a page and says,

“HOW TO JUDGE BEER COLOR"

"The amount and variety of hops used by a brewmaster determine a lager's color, which, in a fine beer like The Budweiser, should be consistently light amber, with no haze or imperfections whatsoever."

...beneath a drawing of bow-tie-clad "Smilin' Charlie" holding a tray bearing a bottle of Bud and a foam-capped, cone-shaped glass.

Don't they mean malt? Or is the big color difference between the Spaten Optimator lager in my glass and the Tuppers Hop Pocket Pilsner lager in my fridge a result of the difference in their hops?

Also: the old-style TV ads Bud is airing, whether genuine or reenactments ... I've got a tape of old TV beer ads, and it's wonderful entertainment while having a few. Best is a B&W spot for Utica Club, featuring Schultz and Dooley, the talking beer steins, extolling the virtures of Utica Club's "natural bubbles." I understand Jonathan Winters did the voices.

[brewmonkey]

It's all freaking gimmicks.

I was in the brewhouse one day filtering a batch of our lager when one of the owners walks in and asks me perhaps the dumbest question I have ever been asked (and remember, I do not believe in stupid questions, just stupid people).

He launches in to how he saw a Miller commercial and that they are cold filtered for a smoother finish. He looks at me, dead serious too, and asks me "do we cold filter our beer?"

When I finished laughing I told him to grab a chair because I was about to burst his bubble. I then explained to him all the crap he sees in commercials is done pretty much by all the breweries with the exception of beechwood aging which does not add flavor contrary to popular belief.

I explained to him that if you filter beer warm you are wasting your time and then showed him why.

Just when I thought we were done he looks at me and asks me if the beechwood does not add flavor then why do they add it. I think I lost him somewhere around the words "nucleation site"....:eek:

[sallad]

ya know, i just saw one of the "retro" Spud ads on tv a little bit ago. my first thought was, 'hey, i can't wait to tell the guys on realbeer.com!"

but it looks like you already know.... ;)

[Stodbrew]

That's funny as hell, Brewmonkey! You gotta love brewery owners and their misguided notions about beer and brewing. Fortunately, for the most part, I never had to deal with them that much, but when I did, I made the most of it.

[SoxyinMO]

I'm fairly certain they are not just replaying old ads from the 1950's and 1960's. I'm pretty sure they are brand new commericials and are using technology to "age" them and make them appear as if they were actual ads

I wondered about that at first, too, Dave. But in one of the ads, where they are sitting at the table and they serve a happy, laughing young woman with short, brown hair? That woman was on Capitol, the soap opera in the 80s, and is now on a dog or cat food comercial; I'm thinking IAMs. She's the old granny lady knitting the sweater for the girl who keeps getting too big to wear it by the time it's finished.

So I now think they really are old ads.

[davesarman]

Originally posted by SoxyinMO
I wondered about that at first, too, Dave. But in one of the ads, where they are sitting at the table and they serve a happy, laughing young woman with short, brown hair? That woman was on Capitol, the soap opera in the 80s, and is now on a dog or cat food comercial; I'm thinking IAMs. She's the old granny lady knitting the sweater for the girl who keeps getting too big to wear it by the time it's finished.

So I now think they really are old ads.

Could be...wonder if maybe they are using old footage, but "new" voiceovers? BTW, I'm a child of the 80's and sort of a trivia nut, and I must say that's one of the most obscure pieces of pop culture I've heard - "Capital"? Don't remember that soap, although I was never a big soap watcher. Got into Y&R in my college days, that's about it...

[chazwicke]

Originally posted by Wit Memo Jeff
Since starting the post I've gotten hold of a DC City Paper from two weeks back with the offending Bud ad. It occupies one quarter of a page and says,

“HOW TO JUDGE BEER COLOR"

"The amount and variety of hops used by a brewmaster determine a lager's color, which, in a fine beer like The Budweiser, should be consistently light amber, with no haze or imperfections whatsoever."

...beneath a drawing of bow-tie-clad "Smilin' Charlie" holding a tray bearing a bottle of Bud and a foam-capped, cone-shaped glass.

Don't they mean malt? Or is the big color difference between the Spaten Optimator lager in my glass and the Tuppers Hop Pocket Pilsner lager in my fridge a result of the difference in their hops?

Also: the old-style TV ads Bud is airing, whether genuine or reenactments ... I've got a tape of old TV beer ads, and it's wonderful entertainment while having a few. Best is a B&W spot for Utica Club, featuring Schultz and Dooley, the talking beer steins, extolling the virtures of Utica Club's "natural bubbles." I understand Jonathan Winters did the voices.

I've got a tape of old commercials too. I think it was a freebie when I orderded some beer books or something. I've not yet watched it. And I've had it for several years. I'll view it if I can find it.

[Wit Memo Jeff]

Originally posted by MeridianFC
As I just happen to work for the publication mentioned in the initial post, I have the ad copy in front of me. The ads in question:


Thans for tracking that down, and sorry for skipping over your post in my hurry to repost the same ad.

I'm thinking of contacting A-B about this seeming misprint. Most big consumer product companies have 800 info lines; there's a Washington Post humor columnist, Gene Weingarten, who's gotten some mileage out of calling those numbers with strange questions and writing about it.

[davesarman]

Originally posted by chazwicke
I've got a tape of old commercials too. I think it was afeebie when I orderded some beer books or something. I've not yet watched it. And I've had it for several years. I' view it if I can find it.

Last year I had mine in the VCR and when I was watching a Twins game and they'd go to commericial, I'd hit the play button and watch two or three of them and then go back to watching the game. Much better beer commericials on the tape then the modern ones on tv now....

[chazwicke]

:)

[SoxyinMO]

"Capital"? Don't remember that soap, although I was never a big soap watcher.

Yeah, Capitol was great : the Cleggs vs the McCandless. Rory Calhoun was in it. It was all about happenings in DC. The woman I recognized in the ad, I've now discovered, was Marj Dusay. She played Myrna Clegg, one of the matriarchs. She was on a Star Trek and a lot of other stuff. But she was GREAT in Capitol. Another lady on the show had been the girl in The Creature From the Black Lagoon!

What an amazing capacity I have for useless information :rolleyes:

[sundontlie]

anyone hear the new coors ads on the radio about "the coldest tasting beer in the world" where there is a guy asking why and how it is important to be "so cold"... i can't remember the exact dialogue but then the voice over explains that coors is the only company to brew fresh and store cold and ship cold blah blah, and that it really it THAT important to be the coldest tastingblah blah and then the guys responds "wow thats wack" and the voise over says "yes, cold wack fashizzle" - its actually quite funny.. but in a way almost making fun of itself..........

- sorry about this terrible post -

[steveh]

Originally posted by sundontlie
...how it is important to be "so cold"...

Of course it's important - if it was any warmer, you could tell just how horrible it really tastes!

S.

[chazwicke]

I'm not willing to try.

[TOBP_Steve]

I work with a guy who orders Budweiser in a bottle, and a chilled mug WITH ICE IN IT. He claims that the colder you make it, the better it tastes. I keep trying to tell him, "yeah, no shit, the ice numbs your tastebuds enough that you can't taste how awful Budweiser is". He promises it's not that, it's just better colder. I then suggest he just try a better beer. No dice.

Yet this very same guy will eat at good restaurants and consult with a sommelier (sp?) about the wine selection, and drop $50 on a bottle without blinking, and keeps a nice wine selection in his house. But he doesn't know enough to be choosey with his beers. :rolleyes:

[fretlessman71]

You know, it's strange... we all pretty much agree that Budweiser stinks, but there are some of us who will still drink one. I'm kind of that way with chocolate; even though I have a great appreciation for certain companies (Toblerone, El Rey, even Lindt), and realize how much better they are than, say, Hershey, I can still eat a Hershey Bar. My wife won't waste her time with it - she's the same way with chocolate as most of us are with beer.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that there are certain things we prefer to have our "champagne tastes" with, and others we'd rather not waste the brain cells thinking too much about it. Beer? Only the best for me. Chocolate? Give me the good stuff if you got it, but if not, that's okay too. Wine? Can't tell a difference - it all tastes weird to me. Dunno why...

[Robo]

But when people get used to drinking better beer their tastes do tend to change. My wife, who is nowhere near the beer geek I am, recently found herself unable to drink a Miller Genuine Draft, which was the only beer available to go with our pizza.

In a way, this is the problem I have with wine. About five years ago my taste began to outstrip my budget.

[TOBP_Steve]

Originally posted by fretlessman71
I guess what I'm trying to say is that there are certain things we prefer to have our "champagne tastes" with, and others we'd rather not waste the brain cells thinking too much about it.

Wow, never thought about that. Coffee is an example for me. My office has coffee makers in every breakroom, free coffee all day long. Paying $4 or $5 for a cup of coffee is obscene to me, especially if it's free. I'll drink the good stuff, once in a blue moon, but the best coffee is free coffee.

And I work with people who insist on paying good folding money every day for coffee. I thought that's ridiculous, until I realized I can't leave the beer store without dropping $50.

[fretlessman71]

Yep - we all have our bear to cross. ;)

[chazwicke]

I try to enjoy good food and drink. I appreciate both. There are some levels of each that I no longer will tolerate.

[SoxyinMO]

Wow, never thought about that. Coffee is an example for me. My office has coffee makers in every breakroom, free coffee all day long. Paying $4 or $5 for a cup of coffee is obscene to me, especially if it's free. I'll drink the good stuff, once in a blue moon, but the best coffee is free coffee.

We have a coffee maker in our breakroom, and everyone who drinks coffee is really good about supplying coffee for it. Unfortuantely for me they all supply crap-o coffee. So, since I make the coffee on the days I'm there in the morning (Tues., Weds) I bring in enough of my own coffee on those days for the first pot, willing to share rather than drink the coffee swill. That also helps me limit my coffee intake, since I forgo the after lunch smarmy batch.

[chazwicke]

Good coffee is essential. Just like good beer. Just a pot of decent brew and no foo foo stuff.

[wortchillergoal]

Going back to AB and the beechwood aging thought. An employee of AB told me that they do not age in beechwood barrels. They age in ss tanks with beechwood chips.

[chazwicke]

This is true. I recall that much from my tour of the Williamsburg plant a long time ago.

[Robo]

And if I remember my most recent tour correctly, they make no claims about this imparting flavor. Our tour guide explained what it did for the yeast.

[fretlessman71]

So what DOES it do for the yeast? It sounds like it could be a good idea....

[MeridianFC]

It's a fining agent isn't it? Somewhere earlier nucleation was mentioned also, so control of yeasts and proteins is what I would assume.

[chazwicke]

I just asked my neice who works at AB. She says they are used to give the yeast room to work. Also they cook the chips to eliminate all flavor and also they only use the beechwood 3 times and then change it.

[danno]

they use a bunch of strips (shavings, almost) of beechwood in the bottom of the tank to increase the amount of yeast that's in contact with the beer. the yeast settles on the the strips when it starts to flocculate, and more yeast in contact with the beer, the faster it ferments and conditions, due to the aforementioned nucleation sites...

[fretlessman71]

I like the idea... does speed improve flavor, reduce chance of infection, speed up production, or all of the above?

(Regarding flavor, I know we're only talking about A/B, but I'm really serious...)

[danno]

it shortens the fermenting and conditioning time, which I guess could be interpreted as improving flavor... :rolleyes: but mainly, it's to speed up production...

[fretlessman71]

So, not useful for homebrewing, then?

[chazwicke]

My niece was visiting with us at the beach. She said she would get into trouble if she divulged too much about the AB process. I guess they are not supposed to talk about it.

[fretlessman71]

Hmph... as if anyone here is going to try to copy the taste of Pudweiser! ;)

[chazwicke]

LOL! She did say they boiled the chips to remove any flavor.

[fretlessman71]

Maybe the beechwood actually imparts a character to the beer... and we know Pudweiser can't have THAT. ;)

[chazwicke]

Yeah. She has been working there during her last year at college. She has learned a lot.

[fretlessman71]

Does she appreciate the good stuff? Or is she a stumper for AB when you talk?

[MeridianFC]

Originally posted by chazwicke
Yeah. She has been working there during her last year at college. She has learned a lot.

"If you want to defeat your enemy, you better be able to sing his song."

[fretlessman71]

Originally posted by MeridianFC
"If you want to defeat your enemy, you better be able to sing his song." Okay - here goes....

"When you say BUD-WEI-SER..... You Said It All!" :D

[chazwicke]

Originally posted by fretlessman71
Does she appreciate the good stuff? Or is she a stumper for AB when you talk?

She went with me to DFH. :D

[chazwicke]

Originally posted by MeridianFC
"If you want to defeat your enemy, you better be able to sing his song."




;)

[fretlessman71]

Originally posted by chazwicke
She went with me to DFH. :D Yeah, but is she learning to sing THEIR song?......

[chazwicke]

She is graduating in May and looking for another job in her field.

[fretlessman71]

Send her to Bruno! Might he be hiring soon?

[chazwicke]

No way I'm letting any of you guys near my neice!;) Not sure she will stay in the brewing business.

[Wit Memo Jeff]

UPDATE: I called Budweiser's information line (1-800-dialbud) to ask about their seemingly incorrect print ad, the one where their retro "Smilin' Charlie” character asserts that beer gets its color from its hops (“the amount and variety of hops used by a brewmaster determine a lager's color”). A very helpful and friendly gentleman named Paul talked with me long enough to make sure he understood the question, asked me when and where the ad appeared, took down my contact info, gave me a reference number, and assured me that someone from Budweiser would get back to me in 5-7 days.

As Tom Petty said, the waiting is the hardest part.

In the meantime I'll be pondering the mysterious combination of hops that makes Spaten Optimator lager so much darker than Tuppers Hop Pocket Pilsner.

Jeff

[Wilson]

Curious myself, I emailed AB and asked if they could better explain themselves to me about the hops adding the color to lagers and the whole "aftertaste" thing. I got an email back saying that it had been forwarded to the correct department and an answer was comming.......that was over a month ago. Good luck on the response. I doubt I'll hear from them again.

[Wit Memo Jeff]

Originally posted by Wilson
......that was over a month ago. Good luck on the response. I doubt I'll hear from them again.

Uh oh, that is NOT encouraging.

I didn't bother asking about the aftertaste thing because I've gotten so used to hearing big brewers brag about their lack of aftertaste. Still, Bud did take it to another level when they claimed that "after taste is usually found in beers that are not fresh." Could "after taste" be something different than "aftertaste?" But that hop/color thing is just plain puzzling...

[chazwicke]

Hmmmmm I hope both of you get responses and see if they are the same explanation. keep us posted.

[steveh]

Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain...

S.

[Chris1stva]

Well, I think what it all comes down to is that the Macros spend much more money on marketing than making good beer. Sad.

[chazwicke]

Yeah and they really could make some decent beers if they wanted to.

[PFDarkside]

Originally posted by chazwicke
Yeah and they really could make some decent beers if they wanted to.
Imagine if you got together a group of really good brewmasters and turned all their supplies and one brewery over to them for a couple of months. Can you imagine the quality of beer you could put out? Amazing.

[fretlessman71]

Sounds like what they did with Budweiser World Select... and yeah, it was amazing, but not how you'd think... :rolleyes:

[chazwicke]

They know they could do it if they wanted.

[fretlessman71]

And I know why they don't, too... it just occurred to me... (I had to be in a cynical mood to realize it, too.)

[chazwicke]

Probably because if they introduced the masses to full flavored beer they would risk losing some to other good beer.

[Chris1stva]

I think the reason is much the same reason that so much popular music sucks right now. You have bean counters, not people dedicated to the craft, running the show. They look at the numbers, and the numbers them tell the "beer" they make makes them money. I haven't seen where Auggie Busch or Pete Coors lives, but I bet its pretty nice. So why risk something different?

We are lucky, though, to be alive when such a great variety of beer is again available.

[fretlessman71]

I think that both chazwicke and christ1stva are correct here. Welcome to America, home of the Lowest Common Denominator. *sigh*

[Chris1stva]

Well, that may be true to some extent, but think how much better things are now than say 20-30 years ago. Now we can get good beer, good coffee, quality food, all kinds of "craft" products. People who are willing to pay a little more and look a little harder can find all kinds of quality product.
The masses may soak up the yellow fizz like a sponge, but more and more are converting to craft beer every day.
Craft beer is not an industry, its a cause!

[chazwicke]

Chris, I could not have said it better. Things are sooo much better than 30 years ago.