Adjuncts and Beyond

[Redbird Fan]

A couple weeks ago there was quite a discussion on the topic of adjuncts - Since then, I'm now wondering what all can be considered an adjunct - Are rice and corn the only adjuncts?

[Tweek]

there are a bunch

wheat, rye, oats, basically most things that arent malt barley

[Redbird Fan]

So I'm wondering then, if adjuncts are "bad" in the minds of purists (I guess) would this leave out:


oatmeal stouts
raspberry (or any fruit) wheats
or the like

from consideration as good beers?

[Tweek]

yup

but they will have some tired excuse why they can drink those

[steveh]

http://www.beeradvocate.com/beer/101/malts.php

Adjuncts can also include additives and chemicals to clear, colorize, or preserve a beer - so yes, sometimes adjuncts can be bad.

In the case of most swillsners, the combo of corn or rice, as an adjunct to fermentation, and the addition of chemicals for preservation and presentation combine to make a pretty ugly hangover after too many the night before.

AFA - Raspberry Wheats or other fruit-flavored beers, it's my honest opinion that they should be unceremoniously ousted from the beer family! ;)

S.

[fuji6100]

AFA - Raspberry Wheats or other fruit-flavored beers, it's my honest opinion that they should be unceremoniously ousted from the beer family!

What happened too "I never met a beer I didn't like?"

[hopjack13]

im not even going to get started here. my personal preference leave out the adjuncts. and thats what it comes down to is what YOU prefer not whats right or wrong. but i do think there should be a list somewhere of good adjuncts and bad adjuncts made up. i can drink oatmeal and wheat beers , i never bring them home with me though, but i don't think they're a bad thing. i went to the beer hunter in palm springs last weekend and thought i'd try a lambic for the first time , they brought me something with rasberry in it.......uhg , couldn't quite choke that one down. if i want rasberryjuce i'll order a friggin rasberryjuice.

[steveh]

Originally posted by fuji6100
What happened too "I never met a beer I didn't like?"

Not *my* quote!! :P

S.

[Theakston]

Rice and corn are adjuncts that basically add no flavour. They just add fermentable sugars that have little taste but ferment cleanly into alcohol. And they are cheap. That is why most beer writers say they have no place in good beer. Especially when, as in US macros, they are often used to provide 40% of the fermentables.

Other adjuncts that add flavour should be acceptable provided you like that flavour. Although the use of anything other than Malted barley hops yeast and water will put you on the wrong side of the German purity laws.

I personally don't like all of these adjuncts. Some fruits I think work better in Ben and Jerry's than in my beer.

[hopjack13]

true dat true dat

[chazwicke]

I happen to like Belgian lambics such as Oud Beersel Kriek. And Rodenbach Grand Cru. (And of course most any Gueze.) I do not mind the addition of cherries. Some Belgian brews even contain candy sugar. There are many adjuncts that are acceptable. Again, it comes down to personal taste. The German purity law if 1516 not withstanding. I dont think Hefeweisens would pass the Reinheitsgebot (or however it is spelled). American brewers really started using adjuncts during WWII because of shortages and rationing. And some beers such as Straub, that has flaked maize can be quite good. But on the whole, I think the four basic ingredients should be Malted barley, hops, water and yeast. And don't forget, A lot of homebrewers add Burton water salts to their brews. These are minerals found in the Burton-on-Trent river in England.

[steveh]

The Bavarian Purity Law exempted the Weiss beers because so much of the roalty loved Weiss. But then, the law was really to protect the Bavarian farmers who grew the products used to make the beer. So many of the neighboring countries' beers (which used farm products from those countries) had grains other than barley (or wheat) that they were immediately rejected from Bavaria (and subsequently Germany as a whole).

I enjoy oatmeal, rye, even chocolate as an ingredient to my beer - even flaked maize once in a while, but I've never gotten into the fruited beers (whether used in ferment or just as a flavor agent) and certainly can't stomach the taste of beers using rice or corn grits as supplemental fermentables.

S.

[Redbird Fan]

It seems to me, most would agree adjuncts are very acceptable, when put into the flavor adding context - i.e. oatmeal, chocolate, fruit, etc. - even if it is not a flavor you prefer (like fruit beers).

On the fruit note, - if the fruit adjunct is seemingly less popular, why are yeast's which impart a citric, or fruity (sometimes banana or bubble gum taste) so popular in the Hefe (wheat) style?

[steveh]

Originally posted by Redbird Fan
On the fruit note, - if the fruit adjunct is seemingly less popular, why are yeast's which impart a citric, or fruity (sometimes banana or bubble gum taste) so popular in the Hefe (wheat) style?

I don't find the flavor of "fruitiness" imparted by yeast or hops to be as truly citrus in flavor as the flavor in a Kriek or Framboise. The fruited Lambics always reminded me of that 70s drink rage: Champale.

I love the fruit nose that Cascade hops give to an ale, but it's not a berry or peach aroma (or flavor) as fruited Lambics have - and I do like plain Lambics.

I'll admit, the Hefe Weissens with a more pronounced banana nose or flavor aren't my most favorite wheats either, but I can drink them. AFA the likes of a Leinenkugel's Berry Wheat - blech. I feel those beers are flavored for folk who don't like the flavor of beer - and the Leinie's commercials seem to bely that, "...hey, *this* doesn't *taste* like beer!"

S.

[chazwicke]

I agree, I am not a big fan of micro fruit beers. Although I have had an occasional decent blueberry beer. I really do like some of the lambics. A good gueze is always good and I like Cantillion, Oud Beersel, and Rodenbach. The Kreiks that I drink are far from sweet. They are very tart and winey. Wonderful beers. I do not often drink the sweetened Belgians such as Lindemans. I do like them occasionally but they definitely are not session beers. Frank Boon also makes decent lambics. So I might exempt Belgian beers from adhering to the purity law. I would put the beers from Oud Beersel in my top 10 along with the rauchbier Schlenkerla when it is fresh at the brewery.

[Redbird Fan]

I suppose I'm not considering Lambic's in the same category of "beers" as those thought to have adjuncts added. Personally I think Lambic's are terrible -

I'm thinking really of strawberry blondes and raspberry wheats (but not of those brewed by larger brewers such as Leinenkugel's).

I'm thinking more of brew-pub styled wheats and/or homebrew, as well as oatmeal stouts, chocolate porters and the like.

[Theakston]

I personally don't like strawberry blondes, raspberry wheats, cherry stouts and chocolate porters. It's a pub not a F###ing ice cream shop!

I think fruit works in lambics purely to off-set the sour taste. Makes for a sweet / tart combo that is quite refreshing. I love rose de gambrinus from Cantillon (raspberry lambic).
Lambics are definitely an acquired tast. They are certainly different.

Too many of these other fruit beers are way too sweet and have nothing to balance them against. For example Pete's wicked varietals usually taste like snapple to me.

Don't mind a little lemon, curacao oranges or a few coriander seeds or grains of paradise in a summer brew as long as it doesn't completely dominate the taste.

wheat is fine in wheat beers and it is 30% of a true lambic.
Oatmeal stouts I like. Rye beers I like (Bear Republic's Hop Rod Rye is excellent). Chocolate malt is fine (it isn't really chocolate anyway). Some brewers do put in actual chocolate and / or starbucks coffee. It is usually such a small amount that I can't say I can taste it. If it were a large amount it would probably not taste too good. Just a gimmick as far as I can tell.

[chazwicke]

Speaking of lambics, I mentioned Oud Beersel in earlier posts. I heard that they have ceased brewing. I bought up all of my local supply as a result of this rumor. Can anyone confirm that they have shut down?

[chazwicke]

Speaking of lambics, I mentioned Oud Beersel in earlier posts. I heard that they have ceased brewing. I bought up all of my local supply as a result of this rumor. Can anyone confirm that they have shut down?

[Theakston]

sadly you are correct. Buy it while you can. Unless you live in Northern Virginia / DC area in which case leave it for me!;)


sign the on-line petition:

http://www.zythos.be/acties/actie1/indexen.html

[mttam510]

I would have to agree with Hopjack. It is truely a matter of an individuals preferance. Beer is an art, there is no right or wrong. Yes, I also agree that there are good adjuncts and adjuncts that should never be used. F$%# the macro brewers. However, I do enjoy a proper fruit beer once in a while (after a hockey game or a really hot day), and I have not tasted too many that I would consider trying a second time. By proper I mean not alcoholic juice....nasty! Way too many fruit beers have gone way to far on the sweetness factor......those beverages should not be classified a beers (trendy micro brewers that lack the soul), unfortunately, there are a lot of them. Raspberry wheat.......sick! I think that a slight essence of fruit is ok, but I still want to taste the malt and hops. Good thing that there are good people like ourselves to keep it in check. Gotta keep it real......OG stylee!

[chazwicke]

I do live in Northern Virginia, Theakston. I bought all that Jim Dorsch had at his store in Vienna.

[steveh]

Originally posted by chazwicke
my top 10 along with the rauchbier Schlenkerla when it is fresh at the brewery.

Oooh - NOW you're talkin'! I was never a big fan of the German (Franconian) smoked beers until I visited lovely Bamberg. Fresh from the tap those beers are outstanding!

S.

[chazwicke]

You got that right Steveh. I would go back to Bamberg in a heartbeat.

[mttam510]

ummm, have never been. I do hear that they have some mean sausages to go with their biers. I love the bottles and as usual, they just aren't the same as the might tap! Apparently the term Shlenkerla (sp?) means to walk with a limp (German), I have a friend who knows the brewmeister there personally, he tells me he walks with a shlenkerla. Interesting factoid.

[hops99]

I tend to separate fruit beers out in two categories:

First, the truly awful wine-cooler-esque crap like Leinie's Berry Weiss (as previously mentioned), raspberry wheats, etc.

Second, I look at Belgian Lambics, or domestically, something like the New Glarus Belgian Red (brewed with cherries) as a unique beverage unto itself. Honestly, if I'm drinking a Belgian Red, I'm not thinking beer, rather something that's defined on its' own merits, and that works for me.

As for other adjuncts, unless it's an unusual situation, steer clear of corn and rice at all times - have a bowl of cereal to satisfy your craving...

[hopjack13]

yeah , cereal wont give you a hang over!! good point brother hops99:D
every year during the orange blossim festival the riverside brewing company brews up an orange blossom ale , thats the only fruit beer i can half ass tolerate, it's a blond ale that finishes with slight overtones of orange , they don't use oranges in thier brew just the blossoms i think. it's not bad but, if i have too much, i'll be hitching a ride on the porcelain potty train with a guy named ralph . i like to have a glass every year in the spirit of the festival anyway, then i'll head to the microbrew garden!

[steveh]

Originally posted by mttam510
ummm, have never been. I do hear that they have some mean sausages to go with their biers.

If I recall correctly, it was at Braurei Spezial (brewery and tavern) that a visiting Berliner suggested I try what he called a "Farmer's Lunch." This dish consisted of a very large, sweet onion - hollowed out, lined with mashed potatoes, stuffed with ground beef, and topped with a brown gravy - made with Spezial's Rauchbier - sorry American Heart Association, but - hurt me!

S.

An FYI - did you know that, by definition, a factoid really isn't factual? It is unverified or inaccurate information presented in the press as factual, often as part of a publicity effort, that is then accepted as true because of constant repetition - sort of like Miller Lite being a "true" Pilsner beer. Or actually being beer, for that matter. ;)

[cyanide]

I don't know how anyone could go through winter without a spiced lager or ale, or go through summer without beer with lemon in it.

The adjuct-frees are great beers for every day drinking... and I wouldn't want to have something spiced up or full of fruit on a regular basis, but once in a while during the right seasons I love them.

Like stouts, great once in a while, but not my thing on a regular basis.

[chazwicke]

Forgot about those spiced beers. You are right, on a cold winters night a spiced ale can be quite what the doctor ordered. Also Pierre Celis's White is is a nice spiced warmer weather beer. I also enjoy an occasional Berlinner Weis with a tiny bit of raspberry syrup added. As I mentioned in an earlier post, I have sampled several blueberry beers up in Maine some of which were good. They were not over done. More so the aroma of blueberries rather than much blueberry flavor in the brew. The best Blueberry beer I ever had was from Cambridge Brewing in Cambridge Mass over 10 years ago. I dont even know if that brewpub is still in existance. But is was quite exquisit and I still remember it. What about those Chili beers? I would like to try a cilantro beer as it is one of my favorite flavors in food. Any of you home brewers ever used it? I would think it might be nice in a pilsener style beer and served with southwestern or mexican food.

[hopjack13]

alright now thats going too far! save the blueberrys and the rasberry syrup for pancakes. cilantro? in beer ? are you quite sure your elevator goes all the way to the top floor ?:p
i can handle cilantro in my salsa or on carne asada , but putting it in beer is just going too too far!mexicans put cilantro in all kinds of stuff but i've yet to see it in thier beer. chili beer? i couldn't even fathom why someone would do such a thing. but hey if it works for you well then i guess it works for you, what ever floats your boat man. if there's a market for something someone will sell it i guess, so it's evident your not the only ones who likes flavored beer. but i'll stick with reinheitsgebot.

[chazwicke]

I have tasted 2 chili beers. One was Cave Creek from Arizona. It was strong and almost overwhelming. It was sold with a tiny chili pepper in the bottle. A gimmick. I believe the other was at Bardo Rodeo when they were still a brewpub. It was just the right balance. You got the chili nose and some flavor but it did not mask the brew. The cilantro is just an idea I would like to try. I may someday brew up a small batch for grins. I love the flavor of cilantro in food and my wife grows fresh cilantro in her herb garden. I would probably only add a small amount when I was doing the last hopping. Anyone of you brewers ever tried it? As for Berlinner Weise, It was designed to have the small amount of raspberry syrup added. It is served in a special glass with the syrup poured into a small hole in the center of a champagne style glass. It can be wonderful. Otherwise the Berlinner weiss is much like a typical white beer. Dry, champagny and refreshing. Much like Hoegarten.

[Theakston]

Not sure I'd like this one, but plenty of beers (especially Belgians) are spiced with Coriander. Coriander is another name for Cilantro. Cilantro is usually used to mean the leaves while with Coriander it is usually the seed.
In Belgium they would call them both (seeds or leaves) coriander but I'm pretty sure it's only the seed that is in belgian beers.

[Redbird Fan]

I have tasted 2 chili beers. One was Cave Creek from Arizona. It was strong and almost overwhelming. It was sold with a tiny chili pepper in the bottle

I've had this beer - it is the most awful beer I have ever had! It tastes like gasoline - it is really hot - yeah, that's right, the drink is hot! - so what the heck are you supposed to quench your thirst with when you are drinking it?

If you ever make a bet with someone, and the loser has to buy a six-pack for the winner I would recommend you buy this beer - if and ONLY IF, you lost due to some bad call, or flukey play at the end.

If you out and out lost, buy the winner the good stuff - he/she earned it.

[hopjack13]

Main Entry: ci·lan·tro
Pronunciation: si-'län-(")trO, -'lan-
Function: noun
Etymology: Spanish, coriander, from Medieval Latin celiandrum, alteration of Latin coriandrum -- more at CORIANDER
Date: 1903
: leaves of coriander used as a flavoring or garnish; also : CORIANDER

well don't i feel like the jack ass
i guess your cilantro idea wasn't so far off. interesting, i tried a hornydevil once and i think they put coriander (cilantro) in it . it was good but not great and i never noticed it in the taste. perhaps i should try it again and try to single it out. my sincerest apologies chazwicke , it appears you elevator is in perfect working order ;) do any of the trappist ales have coriander in them?

[steveh]

Originally posted by cyanide
I don't know how anyone could go through winter without a spiced lager or ale, or go through summer without beer with lemon in it.

The adjuct-frees are great beers for every day drinking... .

I think the definition of "adjuncts" has taken a turn from the original defiance thrown at it. What most of us were cringing over before were the added grain malts, beyong barley, used for fermentation, as well as the long laundry list of chemicals allowed by the US FDA to be put into beers for appearance and preservation.

Sure, we can talk wheat, oats, rye, even flaked maze - even wild rice. But the cheap "cereal grains" that the macros use to lower the cost of production - then try to sell us on the light body and refreshing taste (read bland and lifeless) - do nothing to add character, body, or flavor to beer. The cheap ingredients in combo with all of the coloring agents, head retention additives, or chemical preservatives also give you that ever-lovin' pounding head and queazy stomach the next morning.

Get through the summer without beer with a lemon in it? I do it all of the time. I traveled all over Bavaria, ordered Hefe Weissens just about everywhere, and was never once served a lemon. I personally believe that's a US tradition, started by bar-tenders trying to mask the bad flavor of stale wheat beers in the bottle - back when Weissens weren't the latest craze. I haven't tasted a good Weissen yet that needs a lemon.

S.

[b3s]

well, i guess to each their own. there are the purists, who go adjunct-free and toss around the reinheitsgebot, to which i usually smile. here (http://www.xs4all.nl/~patto1ro/reinheit.htm) is an interesting article taking a contrarian view to the reinheitsgebot.

i avoid most adjuncts, but do like a nice holiday spice beer and honey-wheat beer. but i think mostly i stick to my dry, hopsy ales...that's the flavor i really enjoy :)

that is what is awesome about this hobby. you can make whatever beer floats your boat.

[chazwicke]

Lemons in beer. Hmmmm it does kinda make you wonder what they are trying to hide. I met a guy over the weekend while I was traveling in NC. He was from FLA. We got to the subject of beer. He said he hated Bud. He only drinks "better" beer - Corona with a lemon. Hefeweizens supposedly have two basic variations Northern and Bavarian. Most American versions such as Widmers are the Northern style and some in the States serve with a lemon. I prefer the Bavarian version with the strong banana esters in the nose and no lemons!

[cyanide]

Hey, it gets really hot here and lemony ice-cold beer can be very refreshing.

I don't consider it great beer, but it's nice after a hot day. It's even better with hot and spicy foods..refreshing like lemonade or tea, but with a light taste of beer.

[cyanide]

Originally posted by steveh


Get through the summer without beer with a lemon in it? I do it all of the time. I traveled all over Bavaria, ordered Hefe Weissens just about everywhere, and was never once served a lemon. I personally believe that's a US tradition, started by bar-tenders trying to mask the bad flavor of stale wheat beers in the bottle - back when Weissens weren't the latest craze. I haven't tasted a good Weissen yet that needs a lemon.

S.

Come on now, the US wasn't the first country to add lemon or lemon zest to beer.

[steveh]

Originally posted by cyanide
Come on now, the US wasn't the first country to add lemon or lemon zest to beer.

Didn't say that - I said that it's my theory that bar-tenders over here added a lemon to Bavarian Wesses (hefe oder krystal) that may have been sitting on their shelves too long.

It's a theory based on seeing hefe weiss beers here in the late 70s early 80s that had been sitting in liquor stores so long, the hefe (yeast) had nearly congealed (sp?). The store owner said, "Just stir it up - it'll be fine." It wasn't - I recall it being sort of sour. And then I never saw a lemon offered up anywhere in Southern Germany - so I started to wonder.

S.

[steveh]

Originally posted by chazwicke
He said he hated Bud. He only drinks "better" beer - Corona with a lemon.

Hah - better beer.


Hefeweizens supposedly have two basic variations Northern and Bavarian. Most American versions such as Widmers are the Northern style and some in the States serve with a lemon. I prefer the Bavarian version with the strong banana esters in the nose and no lemons!

Well, actually - original Hefe Weissens (wheat beer with yeast) are from Bavaria - and you can also find Krystals, which is the same beer but has had the yeast filtered out. It's funny the first time you taste one, because it tastes identical to its hefe cousin.

Berliner Weiss is a totally different beer from its Southern cousin. It has no suspended yeast, is lighter in body and alcohol, and has a sort of lactic taste when served without a traditional booster shot of Raspberry syrup or essence of woodruff - the first adjuncts? It uses less wheat in its mash than its southern cousin too.

Bremen has a traditional wheat beer as well, similar to the Berliner, and has some yeast sediment that will haze the color - but it's my understanding that it isn't meant to be served this way - as Bavarian Hefe Weissens are.

AFA - the new, American Wheat beers such as Widmer's - I don't know how the style started. Whereas a Bavarian Hefe Weissen typically uses 60% malted wheat to 40% malted barley in its mash - I believe an American wheat utilizes just the opposite. I guess you could consider an American wheat a hybrid of a Northern and Southern German wheat beer - hefe cloudy as the Southern, less malted wheat used as the Northern.

American and Berliner wheats are interesting beers, but I prefer the Bavarian style too - or even a nice Weizenbock such as Aventinus from Schneider!

S.

[cyanide]

Originally posted by steveh
Didn't say that - I said that it's my theory that bar-tenders over here added a lemon to Bavarian Wesses (hefe oder krystal) that may have been sitting on their shelves too long.

It's a theory based on seeing hefe weiss beers here in the late 70s early 80s that had been sitting in liquor stores so long, the hefe (yeast) had nearly congealed (sp?). The store owner said, "Just stir it up - it'll be fine." It wasn't - I recall it being sort of sour. And then I never saw a lemon offered up anywhere in Southern Germany - so I started to wonder.

S.

Oh, I see, sorry. I thought you were talking about the addition of lemons to beer in general being an American thing to cover up the beer. I was confused because I know a few beers in Europe sometimes used lemon.

[hopjack13]

there are the purists, who go adjunct-free and toss around the reinheitsgebot, to which i usually smile. here is an interesting article taking a contrarian view to the reinheitsgebot.

i,ve read this artical before, still doesn't change my mind about adjuncts though , the beers you'll find in my fridge always have four ingredients , no more no less.i did try an anchor summer beer that had wheat in it , didn't like it too much. is it just me or do the anchor beers seem a little over priced for what they're pushing, seems like i can always find a better beer at a better price, although i haven't tried but two of their beers , the steam and summer beer. to which i was unimpressed with either.

[chazwicke]

Try the Liberty Ale or any of their Christmas beers. Keep in mind though, that the Christmas beers are heavily spiced. Some years have been better than others. I think you may enjoy the Liberty Ale.

[cyanide]

I like Sam Adam's Winter Lager. It's spicy but not too spicy, it has a good body and is dark, it has almost 7% alcohol and is even somewhat smooth... as a lager should be. Certainly an interesting Winter beer. Even people I know that don't like strong beers love it.

[chazwicke]

I have had two beers recently that were 7% . One was an Indian beer called Hartwood 5000. I had it in an Indian restraunt with dinner. The other was a Belgian Blonde called Saint Martin. Both were very deceptive. They were light and quaffable with only a slight hint of the alcohol taste on the back of the tongue. Usually I only drink Indian beer in Indian restraunts and the Hartwood 5000 was a new one that I had not tried before. Apparently there is a lower alcohol version called Hartwood 2000 that they were out of. Indian beer is usually insipid and as flavorless as the macros but does pair well with their food. The Saint Martin was pleasureable with a slight, sweet citrusy flavor. Again the alcohol taste was hidden and only appeared on the back of the tongue in the finish. I have a few more bottles of this beer and will save them for a hot summers evening. I did enjoy both to some degree however neither would be first choice. The Belgian being the better of the two.

[hopjack13]

i'll have to give the liberty ale a try, thnx
anyone try the old fog horn? $12 a six pac and they don't even give you a 12oz bottle? i was going to try it but for that price i got 2 sixers of the bridgeport i.p.a. instead. mmmmmmmm

[chazwicke]

Old Foghorn is a barleywine and is a BIG beer in a small bottle. Unless you want a strong, heavy, hardy brew that is much better suited to a cold winters evening I would still suggest the Liberty Ale. I believe I have some bottles of Old Foghorn in my cellar. I need to inventory what I have down there.

[hopjack13]

maybe i'll pick some up and keep it next to the oldnumbskull, for winter. is it any good? im not much of the barlywine type (except fred, h.o.d., love that stuff!) but i do have a few barlywines im sitting on till who knows when.

[chazwicke]

Yeah, Barleywines are not my first choice either. I do think Fritz Maytag and Anchor deserve some credit for being Micro pioneers though. Sort of paving the way so to speak. They were right behind New Albion. I did have a New Albion Stout while the brewery was open. I saved the bottle for years but it is now gone. I believe most of Jack McAuliffes (sp) equiptment went on to Mendicino Brewing in Hopland, California. So while Anchor's beers are not that special in todays world of good choices, I have to give them some credit for making a stand and succeeding. I am certain that Maytag family money helped as well.

[hopjack13]

hopland ca ? never heard of it but it looks like a may have to move up north a bit , i've heard of homeland and upland then there's redlands but never a hopland , say thats a good name for a beer joint! almost sounds like an amusement park for beer drinkers "HOPLAND!";)

[paul84043]

I like them all...I haven't made a beer yet that hasn't been really good.
We started dipping into the Raspberry wheat last night, it was fantastic after mowing the lawn! Add one more to my list of truly refreshing beers.
It tastes more like raspberry tea than beer.
I love the banana/clove flavors of the true Hefeweizen, as well as the citrusy tartness of the Americanized version.
I have no use for Corn and/or rice to make my beer, though my Corona clone did use Rice solids. BTW it blows real Corona completely away.

I am pretty new to the homebrew/micro scene and I have been trying really hard to keep a completely open mind and try one of everything that I can possibly make or try. So far the experience has been fantastic.

I think that alot of the people (that I know personally anyway) that are viloently opposed to the fruit beers tend to be "yuppie-phobic" and are afraid that they will start craving a double mocha latte with skim milk and meeting friends with names like Tad and Muffy for a rousing game of raquetball or polo.

I like fruit, I like fruit beers. I like "real" beers, I like the hoppiest most brutally bitter beers I can find, I like the belgian ales that taste like nothing you've ever tasted before and knock you on your ass when you try to stand up...I like Porters that taste like someone dumped Juan Valdez himself AND his donkey into the fermenter...I refuse to relegate myself to disliking other types of beer because someone passed a law in the 1500's to tell me what I can and can't put in my beer.

BEER GOOOOOOOOOOOD.... No Beer....BAAAAD

[cyanide]

Damn paul, you hit the nail on the head!

I agree, 100%! Beer is great, as long as it is tastes great, who cares what's in it.

[hopjack13]

you'd care if cyanide was in it. i like fruits too but if i want a friggin fruit drink i'll drink a snapple. i don't want it in my beer! or anything in my beer thats going to make me feel like sh@# and as long as stick to hops, barley, water and yeast i'll be just fine . i didn't start drinking that way because of a law that was passed 487 years ago . i just happen to think it's a kick ass law, it works for me. different strokes for different folks i guess.

[paul84043]

You got it there!

If you don't want fruit in your beer, it's your god given right to leave it out!
At least there's not some jerk somewhere telling you that you have to put fruit in it!
Besides, I hate Snapple. I want a beer.

I like a variety, it depends on the day...

I don't like all the chemical crap that the megas throw in, but if it's "natural", I have no problem with it.
I still prefer to brew with primarily wheat or barley though.

[hopjack13]

true dat true dat

[b3s]

i don't know where the tradition started with wheat beers getting a slice of lemon in them...and i don't care...i just pull it off and drink the beer. but what do i know...i don't do the salt and lime thing with tequila, either...well, except for the occasional shiver shot ;)

i guess i just like my beer to be beer flavored and leave the extras out.

in response to the corona with lime thing...well, just about the funniest thing i ever read was the corona review over at the opinionated beer page (http://www.tobp.com/)...my fianceé likes corona and i read her that review...i was laughing so hard i couldn't hear the response, but i'm sure it wasn't complimentary!

[paul84043]

We used to drink Corona with lime in it, I also used to put a lemon in my Hefeweizen.
I found that when you do that to your homebrew, or a good micro, you basically completely hide the real taste of the beer.
No more...
Whatever is in my beer, I want to taste it.

Hell, my wife will pull one of our beers right out of the basement, no refrigerator, pop it open and drink it...that says alot.
Actually the Hefeweizen is one of the best to drink like that.

[fretlessman71]

Originally posted by hopjack13
anyone try the old fog horn? $12 a six pac and they don't even give you a 12oz bottle? i was going to try it but for that price i got 2 sixers of the bridgeport i.p.a. instead. mmmmmmmm

What about Bridgeport ESB? I was just in CO and picked up a 6 pack.... I think I got really old beer, because I was REALLY disappointed. I know that this company makes some of the best beer I'd had in years, and this just wasn't it. My friend's Fat Tire tasted better. Wish I could get this stuff fresh in my neck of the woods....

[hopjack13]

i haven't tried the e.s.b. , flat tire tasted better:( t5hats not saying too much for the e.s.b. i had a flat tire at the airport in texas.......dallas maybe, any way i found it to be a pretty boring beer it lacked character and depth. i don't know but the place i get the i.p.a. may carrie the e.s.b. as well i'll have to check it out, i'll let you know the results.