first time brewer questions

[rhelton]

Hey everyone,

I just bought my first equipment and ingredient kits from a local homebrew store. I've been reading everything I can find for the last week or so and I think I'm finally ready for the big brew! This is the ingredient kit that I bought:

"Yellow Dog Ale is an American Pale Ale. In this Kit, Dry Malt Extracts are combined for a flavor very similar to our Yellow Dog Malt Extract Syrup. Top quality bittering, flavoring, and aromatic hops are added to make this a great beer!

This Kit contains Light and Wheat Dry Malt Extracts, Malto-Dextrin, Crystal Malt and Chocolate Malt, with Cascade, Target, and Ultra Hops for bittering, flavor, and aromatics. Includes Irish Moss, Ale Yeast, and Priming Sugar."

I still need to buy a brew pot and I am wondering what is the best size for someone that will be brewing on an electric stove? Also, I plan to wash everything with regular detergent and then sanitize it with B-brite. I was thinking it would be easy to put the sanitizing solution in one of the large buckets and just wash everything in that..? Does that sound like a good plan? Then I could finish by sanitizing the bucket and be all set..?

Thanks for any help and suggestions!
Ryan

[Wilson]

Welcome!

I brew on an electric stove and I use a 4 gallon brew pot and do partial boils with about 3 gallons of water, adding the rest of the water after the wort has cooled. I'm no expert, but I dont think B-Brite is a sanitizer. Pick up some One-step or some Star-San, both are easy to use. You could use your fermenting bucket to sanitize everything in, but I would be concerned with gouging the sides and providing great hiding places for bacteria in the future.

Good luck! Those ingredients sound like they'll make a great beer! Where did you get it?

[rhelton]

I'm curious how others handle the logistics of sanitation then. Do you have another bucket that you use for the sanitizing solution?

I think b-brite is a sanitizer...from what the guy at the homebrew store said at least. Also, I purchased everything from Foremans General Store in Colleyville TX. foremansinc.com/foremans.htm (http://www.foremansinc.com/foremans.htm)

[Wilson]

Yeah, I have a separate container filled with sanitizer that I use when brewing/racking/bottleing.

[S.F.B.]

Welcome to home brewing.

When starting out I did use my fermenting bucket to sanitize everything, as you said. Just use caution to not gouge it as Wilson mentioned.

The ingredients you listed look like they will make a good brew.

Good luck and enjoy!

[rhelton]

A question regarding the partial boil using a 4 gallon brew pot...what's the best method?

Should I boil 3 gallons of water and pour that into the fermenter then pour the cooled 2 gallons of wort into that?

[Jeff Lockhart]

I used either a four or five gallon pot when I started and topped off in the fermenter as well. That was a great size for kitchen brewing. I used my bottling bucket for sanitizing as there was less chance that bacteria would ruin the beer after fermentation (note: I did not say no chance). Keep it clean and sanitized and you will be fine.

Good luck and let us know how it turns out:)


Slanite,
Jeff

[BrewDog]

Ryan-

Welcome-

Before you use your fermenter for the 1st time, measure out 5 and a half gals of plain water into your fermenting vessel. With a permanent marker, mark the water line on the OUTSIDE of the bucket/carboy. Then, you'll know how full you will need to make it when topping up. The extra half gallon will account for the yeast trub that you don't want to leave in your beer.

On brew day, after the boil is over and you have cooled it down, add all the concentrated wort to the fermenter first, then top it up to the line you marked with pre-boiled, pre-cooled water. This way, you will not over fill and thereby over dilute.

Make sure you mix it up good and aerate to give the yeast plenty of oxygen.

Good Luck and let us know how it goes-

[rhelton]

Thanks for the great advice everyone. Saturday will be the big day!

Ryan

[HogieWan]

Good Luck. My first brew day was the biggest mess my kitchen has seen yet. Make sure you have cleaning supplies and some time to clean up after.

[rhelton]

Hey I was just looking at my fermenter which is the plastic bucket with the lid and I noticed that the gromet that the plastic airlock fits into does not create a good seal at all when the airlock is inserted. Is this a problem? Does that need to be an absolute air tight seal??

Thanks
Ryan

[fuji6100]

rhelton, that is a very common problem with fermentation buckets. Besides the grommet, the lid itself often does not seal tight. The only downside is that the airlock will often not bubble once fermentation gets past the explosive point, but there is plenty of "outward" co2 pressure to keep any nasties from getting into your beer.

[botay]

found a 21qt enamel coated pot at the local discount store for $10 today. Just got to keep your eyes open.
________
weed vaporizer (http://weedvaporizers.info/)

[justin27]

IMHO the best advice to give a newbie
1)Watch the pot for initial boil over.
2)Get a keg, Bottling is too much work

Justin

[fretlessman71]

Originally posted by fuji6100
rhelton, that is a very common problem with fermentation buckets. Besides the grommet, the lid itself often does not seal tight. The only downside is that the airlock will often not bubble once fermentation gets past the explosive point, but there is plenty of "outward" co2 pressure to keep any nasties from getting into your beer. Yeah, but it sure is cool to be able to see the bubbles doing their thing. :) You might go to the hardware store and see if you can get some sealant for the grommet, something silicone, maybe. Can't imagine it would hurt; just let it dry COMPLETELY before you get another batch going.

[fuji6100]

Fret,

Even if he does seal the grommet, the lid isn't going to be air tight. My first bucket came with a non-drilled lid and I made my own hole just big enough for an airlock and used electric tape to wrap around the bottom of the airlock to try and make it airtight. The edges of the lid leak more than the grommet.

[wortchillergoal]

I also will tell you that B-brite is not a sanitiing agent. It is an oxygen activated cleaning agent only.

[fretlessman71]

Originally posted by fuji6100
Fret,

Even if he does seal the grommet, the lid isn't going to be air tight. My first bucket came with a non-drilled lid and I made my own hole just big enough for an airlock and used electric tape to wrap around the bottom of the airlock to try and make it airtight. The edges of the lid leak more than the grommet. You know, I never had that problem... but I also noticed that there were about 3 "degrees" of the lid being "on". And I had to crank down hard to get the lid to that 3rd "degree" of tightness. I'll bet all bucket-style fermentors aren't the same, though.

[rhelton]

Hey guys,

Well brew day was mostly a success...although I don't think the yeast is working..Here's what I did:

1. Cleaned everything with b-brite and then sanitized with iodiopher (sp). After hearing that b-brite wasn't a sanitizer I figured I better get some of that iodine stuff just to be safe.

2. I purchased a 3 gallon stainless steel pot, and I already owned one 3 gal ss pot. So I filled one with three gallons and set that to boil.

3. Prepared Wort according to instructions. All went well and I even managed to avoid a couple boil overs..barely!

4. Prepared the yeast...according to the instructions I was to add the packet to 10x it's weight in water. 11g x 10 = 3.1 oz. So I added to the warm tap water and waited 5 minutes then stired up until all yeast was disolved.

5. Poured the rehydrated yeast into the fermenter first, then poured in the boiled and cooled water and then finally the cooled wort. I sloshed around a little, but maybe not as much as I should have.

6. Put the lid on, which I do think is pretty much air tight and then placed the airlock, which is pretty worthless, on.

My dilema, as of this morning I see absolutely no action whatsoever in the fermenter. I've not removed the lid but I have taken the air lock out and used a flashlight to look in the hole. Nothing is happing inside...just brown liquid. It's now been 14 hours since I put it in the bucket. Should I be worried? If the yeast doesn't work can I add more?

Sorry for the long post, thanks for any help!
Ryan

[fuji6100]

I'll bet all bucket-style fermentors aren't the same, though.

Yeah, I think you hit the nail on the head, fret, I've seen many different varieties of bucket fermentors and at one point had two different varieties myself.

[danno]

Originally posted by rhelton
It's now been 14 hours since I put it in the bucket. Should I be worried? If the yeast doesn't work can I add more?
give it a little more time. I bet you'll see some activity sometime today. if not, then consider pitching another package...

[rhelton]

Well, still nothing at 25 hours. I think I'll stop by the homebrew store tomorrow and pickup another packet of yeast. Is it ok to pitch it dry right out of the packet or do I have to re-hydrate it?

[fretlessman71]

If it's this late, I'd rehydrate it and give it a head start, but that's just me. Maybe give it a little DME to get feeding on, too.

Having said that, I've had batches that took 36 hours to take off - so be patient!

[ray m]

I agree with Fret & Danno, and I also think that you didn't aerate your wort enough when you said you just sloshed it around a little. Yeast needs a lot of oxygen to get itself going to do its job of fermentation. Not aerating enough leads to very long lag times, and your yeast may not kick off at all in some isolated cases. Then these lag times can lead to infections setting in.

It wouldn't hurt to rehydrate your new package of yeast & adding it. Then, aerate the living hell out of that wort. Shake the fermenter vigorously back & forth for 5 minutes or so. I mean shake the living crap out of it!! Or, you can use a good sized wisk (sanitized, of course) and get your wort aerated with that for 5 minutes or so.

I think you will be fine. Worry not grasshopper, this is only your first batch!

:)

[Restin]

67 hours.

That's how long it took for my first beer to kick off. It turned out fine with no off flavors.

What did it for me was about 48 hours in I swirled brew around to get the yeast back in suspension. (suggestion from the forum ;) )


7 hours.
That's how long my next batch took. Shook the bejeezus out of the top off water and straining the wort into the carboy added oxygen as well. Plus used a yeast starter.

Patience=)

[rhelton]

Thanks again for all the suggestions and encouragment.

I checked it this morning, looking through the airlock hole, and there are some bubbles on the top..best I can describe it looks like a glass of soda after the carbonation has settled. Not many bubbles....but more than there were yesterday.

Sooo...as some of you said it can take a long time to start, I'm going to stop by the store today and pickup the yeast and then just watch things until later tonight and see what happens.

I'm hoping that when I get home it will be fermenting like nobodys business!

Things I've learned:

1. Shake the living bejeezus out of it when you pour the wort in. :D

2. Relax.

[BluesHarp]

signs of bubbles starting is good news!

Do a search here for "yeast starter"...that is the best way to get a fast, vigorous fermentation.

[Yodar]

Best thing that happened to me is to start studyin' All Grain processes and to adopt as many of them as I could even when doing KITS so when I made the switch it would be fairly seamless.

Get a turkey fryer which some stores in the south offerred complete with 30 Qt pot % byyrner for $38.00

Then you are forced outside to use the turkey fryer as your heat source and all sortsa good things happen: (even brewing extracts)
1. The MESS is outside ! This means you can be really ZEALOUS with your santizing and keep a 7 gallon bucket full of sanitizer nearby for all emergencies (I used my bottling bucket full of sanitizer for dunking and dispensing from spigot)

2. Nearby Hoses and groundwater chilling thru a coiled tube wort chiller make the brew-process and mess control lots easier

3. Neighbors you never found a away to talk to, talk to you when they see you practicing your sorcery

4. NO pressure from SWMBO about getting (you or the smell or the mess) out'a the kitchen

Like they guy said, mark yer fermentation bucket and letter rip.

( I still do extracts when I have recipes that give predictable repeatability, outside)

Yodar in O'do

[rhelton]

Just an update on my first batch:

When I got home from work last night the few bubbles that I'd seen in the morning were pretty much gone. So I re-hydrated a new packet of yeast and pitched it. One thing I noticed is that when this packet was re-hydrating it was much more active and it had a stronger odor than the first packet. Maybe that first packet was DOA?

At any rate, it started bubbling and creating some "pond scum" on the top of the wort within an hour or so of pitching. As of this morning it's going freakin' crazy...bubbles and crap must be three inches off the top of the wort! Whoo Hoo!

Thanks for the help everyone, I'll keep you posted.

Ryan

[ray m]

Most definitely sounds like you had some bad yeast to just muck things up even more. Glad all is well now!!

[fretlessman71]

Yes, please keep us posted. Sure hope you didn't get any wild yeastybeasties in there while you were waiting...

[ray m]

I was worried about the same thing, Fret. Not to make you panic, though, rhelton......I'm sure all will be well.:)

[rhelton]

I'm making another batch this weekend just incase that batch doesn't work. I'll have some damn homebrew one way or the other! :)

[rhelton]

Seeing as how I've jumped into this hobby with both feet...do you guys think I should get another bucket or carboy and do a secondary fermentation? Will I see much better results over single fermentation?

[ray m]

I personally would stick with what you have now, just to get comfortable with the process. You had some yeast issues with this first one, and there is certainly nothing wrong with starting out with single stage ferments. I would go at least one more batch, make sure you still dig the hobby and your beers are satisfactory to you. Then branch out from there.

Just my .02!!:)

[rhelton]

You're probably right...I should make sure I can at least produce drinkable beer at some point! :)

That said though, I was reading about that "V" conical fermenter on another thread and it sounds pretty cool! Do you think that would be a good device for a beginner? Seems to me that it would be as it reduces the chances for screw ups..

Thanks
Ryan

[ray m]

It would not be a bad device for a beginner, but your looking at $$ invested as an issue. The "V" costs $129.00 on www.morebeer.com. I'd hate to see anyone spend that kind of money on a hobby they're not 100% sure they'll stick with.

I still say get a couple more batches under your belt with what you have. Then, if you're happy with what your producing and are pretty sure the bug has bit you for good, go from there. In other words, if you get to the point where you're thinking about getting glass carboys to replace your plastic bucket for primary & 2ndary ferments, then I would consider the "V". It allows for 2ndary ferments without the hassles of transferring/racking, and does make the process easier overall.

Hope this helps ya!!

[rhelton]

Dang it Ray, can't you see I've got money burning a hole in my pocket! :D

[ray m]

LMAO!!!! Sorry, dude!! Um, ok, let me change my response, then. The "V" vessel is awesome---get one before there's no more left! The sooner the better!! Buy it! Buy it! Buy it!!;)

[ZAPP168]

I have just started brewing myself, but when I got my equipment I went for a 5 gallon glass container. Yes it is a pain to clean, and to fill, but it is cool watching the entire process through the glass, and the seal is very tight.

[rhelton]

I went and bought a 6.5gal glass carboy yesterday, and two cases of bottles. I agree about wanting to see it in action...that's why I went with the glass. The LHBS also had a "V" that I took a look at. It looks pretty cool, although I'm not sure where I'd put it.

Back to my current batch..I moved the bucket to a chair so that it's elevated. I'm think about bottling it tomorrow. Does that sound about right? I put it in the fermenter 1 week ago today...but then had the yeast issue. So the actually fermenting didn't start until Monday. I've been watching it the last couple days though and I'd say it's definitely not doing anything else.

Need to bottle and start batch number 2! Wheat beer!

Thanks again for the help
Ryan

[Guiness5150]

I'm not a master brewer by any means, but I would say get some star-san. Mixes up easy, it's 'no rinse' and you can keep it (5 gal pail) for a few weeks..best of luck

[rhelton]

Well, I successfully bottled my first batch on Sunday afternoon. I tried a little and it tastes ok I guess...smells like beer and tastes a little green apple'ish. I've read that green apple flavor is usually a sign of contamination on some level. But then I read another thread that said it would probably condition out. Either way it was great to get the first batch in the bottles. I've learned soooo much after just my first brew. I've upgraded my setup over the last week. For the second batch I have a glass 6.5gal carboy that I'll be using for the primary fermenter. This way I'll be able to see what's going on AND the darn thing will be air tight!

I got an Irish Stout kit from a friend for my birthday, so that will be my next brew. Should I two stage this one?

[YamahaXS]

Originally posted by rhelton
Well, I successfully bottled my first batch on Sunday afternoon. I tried a little and it tastes ok I guess...smells like beer and tastes a little green apple'ish. I've read that green apple flavor is usually a sign of contamination on some level. But then I read another thread that said it would probably condition out. Either way it was great to get the first batch in the bottles. I've learned soooo much after just my first brew. I've upgraded my setup over the last week. For the second batch I have a glass 6.5gal carboy that I'll be using for the primary fermenter. This way I'll be able to see what's going on AND the darn thing will be air tight!

I got an Irish Stout kit from a friend for my birthday, so that will be my next brew. Should I two stage this one?

definitely two stage the stout and all other beers for that matter (Assuming you have the carboy).

your beer will not taste like the final beer until at least 7 days in the bottle, maybe more, because the beer faeries are back logged.

[JHC]

If you still have money burning a hole in your pocket I would recommend getting into kegging. I just started kegging a couple of batches ago and it is by far the best investment in brewing that I have ever made. I can't even think about botttling anymore. Good luck and enjoy.
JHC

[rhelton]

Yeah, that's what i've decided. I think I'm going to purchase this setup that was listed in another thread.

keg setup (http://www.alternativebeverage.com/cornelius_kegging_system_ball_lock/cornelius_ball_lock_system.htm)

[axis714]

First of all let me say Welcome to the obsession!! Its really cool to hear that youre the type to not just be satisfied with mediocre brewing and youre already looking for ways to improve your brew.
The advice youve been given thusfar is not only right on the $, its from a group of very experienced problem solvers,so Please take it to heart. I dont really have much more to add to whats already been covered ,but as for the yeast problem you experienced; Going with a Wyeast smack pack would definately have solved your problem from the get go, Or actually any yeast starter as previously mentioned along with ample aeration of the cooled wort.Going with the glass carboy is definately a plus,and might I add that even as an inexperienced brewer the use of a secondary conditioning vessel is absolutely right up your alley. I also agree with the kegging option ASAP, but it is not mandatory, you can get by bottling for as long as you wish....took me almost 8 years to invest in kegging,and in hindsight Im very glad I had the bottling experience as I also enjoy making Rootbeer and such to give away to family and friends.and the bottling comes in handy.
I can just tell already that a guy like you just wont be happy until at least a partial mash is achieved so you may want to plan out a mash tun/manifold while youre waiting around for your beers to mature...Good Luck in your ventures and Happy brewing to ya.

[rhelton]

Just something that I thought was funny-

I've been checking ups.com all day to see if my new homebrew items have been delivered to my house. Thankfully they have been! The funny part is I've never been so excited to get a funnel, a carboy brush and an autosiphon.

Just cracked me up when I thought about it. :)

[Restin]

I was the same way about a long stem thermometer :D

[rhelton]

I cracked open a cold bottle this evening and poured it into a nice cold glass. It's certainly not going to win any awards for clarity, but damn it tastes good! I can't believe it was really that easy to make good tasting beer. My next batch, the stout, will be brewed this Sat. I can only think that it will be even better than my "fat tire"ish ale.

Many thanks to everyone that offered advice and encouragment. You'll see many more posts from me, and hopefully I'll be able to help other newbies at some point as well!

Thanks again
Ryan