Bottling Lagers

[BeerSlut]

I have started making Lagers just recently and I need some advise from someone who has experience with the bottling/conditioning phase. I have read many books and articles on this and no one has the same answer. After I have bottled my lager, should I then put them back in the lagering fridge at the 52-54 degree temperature I fermented at, or should I store them at room temp? Palmer says room temp. So do some other books. But, most of the stuff I've read says it has to be "stored" at lagering temps for 4-6 weeks. I thought that the whole lagering process was supposed to be at cooler temps. Anyone have good experience with either way of doing it?

(If it makes any difference, on this batch I used White Labs German Lager Yeast)

Thanks

[HogieWan]

While I'm an ale only brewer (live in Louisiana) right now, I'm sure people always condition teir beers at room temp for at least a couple of weeks.

[BeerSlut]

Hi,

I have done OK with ales, but I wanted to try my hand at lagers. I always condition at room temp or so on the ales, but from what (little) I understand, lagers are supposed to (I think) go thru the whole process at the lower temps. Don't know for sure. That's why I'm asking. Hey, thanks for your reply. With all the incredibly brilliant pros on this board, I know there is a well schooled vet of Lagering out there. Just need the teaching from someone who's done it a bunch.

Have a day!

[HogieWan]

I'm surprised no one else has replied yet. The lagering before bottling will achieve the flavor you're looking for, but you can condition it at a higher temp without any ill effects. You could codition at lower temps, but it would take a LONG time to carbonate.

[BeerSlut]

Thanks again. My first batch was bottled almost a month ago, and I did have it in one of my lagering fridges for just over 2 weeks, and you're right. It hadn't carbonated hardly at all. I took it out about 1 1/2 weeks ago and left in a room that stays at about 64. They seem to be carbonating ok now, but I don't know if this higher temp is going to harm the flavor. It takes so long to lager that I don't want to make a number of batches and months later find out I was doing it wrong. I am bottling batch #2 this weekend, and I guess I will leave it out at near room temp. Kinda average the 2 temps between lagering temps and room temp.

Ah... the things we do for good beer!!! Hopefully this will turn out and it will be done just in time for trolling around on a NOT frozen lake, with a pole in one hand, and a home brewed lager in the other. (Repeated over and over again, of course)!!!

Thanks for your help

Rob

[Trogger]

I have read that you keep it at room temp for about a week or 2 right after bottling to carbonate. Then store at lower temps for a month or more to complete the conditioning. I have my first lager at low temps right now, after a week at ale temps. I’m going to try it this weekend to make sure it’s carbonated.

[davesarman]

That sounds logical to me. Warmer temps to carbonate, then colder temps to condition.

[BeerSlut]

That's what I am going to do as well. I am going to "test" one from my first batch this afternoon. I know it's not long enough (about 30 days) but I don't care! I don't have time for patience, it takes too long!!! Maybe doing lagers will teach me patience. Probably not!

Hey, thanks for the input. I'll let you know how these 2 batches turn out when they're done.

[fretlessman71]

Did no one say "Welcome to the boards" yet? Then let me be the first!

Just had a Polygamy Porter last night. Unfortunately, I didn't think too much of it, and I remember it being better than it was.

Hey - can you tell us what you know about the 4% laws in Utah?

Best of luck on your brew!

[fuji6100]

I let my bottled lagers carbinate for about 3 weeks at room temp before putting them away for cold conditioning.

By that time the only consumable sugars are the priming sugars, and they won't contribute enough to give esters or "ale" flavors.

That's just my 2 cents.

[BeerSlut]

Thanks for the welcome. This is a great place to learn.

Fretlessman71- the 4% laws in Utah are actually 3.2%. Beer can be sold in any store as long as it is the 3.2% stuff. If it goes over that, it has to sold in a state run liquor store. That is for all adult beverages over 3.2. Wine, booze, etc. (Mormon rules!).

I think Fuji6100 may be right on the starting conditioning temp. I tried one of my 1st batch which started with about 1 1/2 weeks in the fridge at 52 degrees and then I pulled them out because they were not carbonating and they had sat for a couple weeks at about 62-64. It had some carbonation, but not much. I think they need a fast start at warmer temps. SURE, I recalibrate the thermostats on 2 fridges to 52 thinking I would need all this space, and now it looks like I don't. Oh well, it was good practice!

Has anyone tried a beer from Eddie McStiff's in Moab, Utah called oddly enough Moab Rock, Amber Ale? A friend of mine brought me some the other day, and it was quite good. I'd like to find a recipe close to that.

I have not tried the Polygamy Porter. The name caused quite a stir around here when it came out though! They (the Mormons) were trying to get the billboards taken down and they were pretty pissed!

We have a couple of great MicroBreweries around here, despite our stupid liquor laws. They have a lot of fun poking at the local establishment.



Thanks for the reply's

[Trogger]

Update on my first lager. Bottle temp for priming: 1 week at 65-68, one week at 50, so far. Tried it this weekend, Yummy. Carbonation worked nicely. I'm gong to leave sit for at least 4 more weeks for additional conditioning.

[BeerSlut]

Trogger,

Did you use corn sugar (5oz) for your primer? I just bottled my 2nd batch yesterday, and I have it at about 62-64. Maybe I'll take it up to the upper 60's like you did. I have been trying to keep it lower because I read somewhere that if you get lagers too high, it can change the flavor. I don't know. I just figure that if I am going to go to all the extra work for a lager, I want it to be worth it. That is why I asked the original question. I guess I will just have to learn by experimenting, but it takes so much longer on a lager, that by the time you know, you may have screwed up several batches. I have got 3 more batches of various types of lager fermenting now, and I would sure like to know for sure before I bottle these. Let's hope experience is the best teacher, (and a forgiving one)!!

Thanks

[JHC]

I have done several lagers and have kept them at room temp after bottling. All of them have turned out great. My last lager I kegged after its lagering and then began drinking within about 4-5 days and it did very well. I have never put them back at cold temps and have not noticed any ill effects.
JHC

[BeerSlut]

Thanks. Good to know. I am going to move yesterday's batch into room temp and try it.

[Trogger]

BeerSlut,

I used corn sugar. I did notice a slight "ale characteristic" in the taste, but I'm pretty sure that is due to the primary ferm temp being about 5-8 degrees higher than I wanted. Either way, it's darn good.

[Fast_Eddy]

Just to clarify...

You should lager (for at least 3 weeks) before bottling and at a temp as close to freezing as you achieve.

After bottling room temp until carbonated is okay but the beer will carbonate at cooler temps too. Cooler temp is better for preventing off flavors but not a big deal.

After carbonation - you definitely want to put the beer in at most a 50 F fridge to help floc the yeast and to prevent autolysis - yeast degradation has no where to hide in a light lager. Light lagers do not really benefit from aging warm on the yeast.

[Bruno_78]

Hey Eddy, I assume there will be plenty of yeast still in suspension after three weeks of lagering to sufficiently carbonate the beer.

[Fast_Eddy]

Originally posted by Bruno_78
Hey Eddy, I assume there will be plenty of yeast still in suspension after three weeks of lagering to sufficiently carbonate the beer.

Unless you filter or lager for a very long time - there is basically always some amount of yeast in homebrew. Eventually it'll get the job done. Also note that most non-American lager strains are less flocculent than ale strains.

[BeerSlut]

Fast_eddy,

Thank you for the info. Some questions though. I am using White Labs yeasts on these lagers. On most the different types, they say 50-55 degrees is what their yeast is made for. So, if I lager at say 40 or so, will it screw up the yeast (make it go dormant)?

I have recalibrated the thermostats in some fridges so I can adjust the temp to 52-54 because that's what White Labs said is the range for their yeasts. Should I go lower?

I have been doing primary fermentation for 1 1/2 to 2 weeks. That's about when the airlock is only burping at about once a minute. Then into the secondary for about 3-4 weeks. All at 52-54 degrees. Then bottling. Is this correct?

[Fast_Eddy]

Originally posted by BeerSlut
Fast_eddy,

#1 Thank you for the info. Some questions though. I am using White Labs yeasts on these lagers. On most the different types, they say 50-55 degrees is what their yeast is made for. So, if I lager at say 40 or so, will it screw up the yeast (make it go dormant)?

#2 I have recalibrated the thermostats in some fridges so I can adjust the temp to 52-54 because that's what White Labs said is the range for their yeasts. Should I go lower?

#3 I have been doing primary fermentation for 1 1/2 to 2 weeks. That's about when the airlock is only burping at about once a minute. Then into the secondary for about 3-4 weeks. All at 52-54 degrees. Then bottling. Is this correct?

#1 - No it won't screw it up - but don't crash the temp down, either. Lower it 2-3 degrees F per day.

#2 - Fermentation temp provided by White labs is a guideline. I ferment lagers between 48-50F. But fermenting at 52 is fine as well. At 52 F you'll still be very pleased with your result.

#3 - I usually only secondary for a week(some people go longer) and start lowering temp to lager temps as described above. The gravity is the most important part. As fermentation is 66-80% done then go to secondary(this is also the time to a diacetyl rest if you're going to do one). If you miss this window - it's no big deal. When 95%(or so) done go to lager.

[BeerSlut]

Thank you so much for the info.

It is very helpful to learn from someone who is actually doing it.
Most helpful.

Have a day! (and a beer!!!)


If a little knowledge is dangerous, I've become a weapon of mass destruction!!!!!!!

[Fast_Eddy]

One more point - you want to go to secondary while a still relatively large amount of yeast is still in suspension but the fermentation has settled. That way you bring enough yeast to finish the job(secondary, lager, carbonation) but you leave the dregs behind.

[BeerSlut]

OK, I'll do just that. Again, thanks for the help. This board is a great place to learn.