Extract and Hops Conversion

[Audiopup]

I am going to brew an irish red this weekend with a recipe that calls for malt extract syrup and whole hops. I, on the other hand, have dry malt expract and hop pellets. According to Papazian, I should use 15% less hop pellets than whole leaf hops for the same amount of bitterness. Also, I should use 17% DME when substuting it for a LME. Are these figures accurate? Has anyone done substutions like this and what were the results? This will be my 3rd batch of beer.

Thanks.

[BrewDog]

Yup. Those are pretty much accurate. Don't worry- It'll come out great!

[danno]

one thing to consider, it will be tough to buy 15% less hops and 17% less malt, because they're prepackaged, and having 15% of 2oz of hops laying around isn't going to do you any good. the key to beers is balance, does the malt balance the hops? I'd say just buy the 6 lbs DME and 2oz hops, and since you're "supposed" to decrease each by very close to the same percentage, don't decrease either one and dump in the full amount... you'll end up with a slightly stronger beer, but is that a bad thing? :D

[fretlessman71]

Another way you could approximate the differences is to add about 20% more water, couldn't you? I guess you'd have to add 20% of everything else other than the DME and the hop pellets, but hey - more beer, right? Just use a blowoff tube right off the bat, ok? :)

[Audiopup]

Thanks for the quick replies.

The recipe calls for 5 lbs. LME and 2 ozs. of hops with specialty grains. I guess I'll try danno's method, since I don't have a scale to accurately measure out 1.7 ozs. of hops. Slightly stronger beer...I could live with that. :D

[Fast_Eddy]

As another approach - you could increase the volume by 15% or so. This should give you the more correct original gravity. Allowing a 15-17% increase in extract makes a 1-1.3% increase in ABV which is really not appropriate for a red, IMO.

[fretlessman71]

Psst.... isn't that what I suggested above? ;)

[Fast_Eddy]

Originally posted by fretlessman71
Psst.... isn't that what I suggested above?

Oh yeah - I didn't notice. If I read all of your posts Fret I'd be here all day :)

[Audiopup]

I only have a 6.5 gal plastic bucket for a primary and a 5 gal carboy for a secondary. How could I increase the volume with those limitations?

[BrewDog]

Another thing to consider is to remember that you can shorten the boil time for the hops a little to compensate.

Assume this is the hop schedule for your recipe:

75 min total boil
60 min bittering hop addition
20 min flavor
5 min aroma

So, if the hop sched. calls for a 60 min. addition, maintain the total overall 75 min boil, but postpone the bittering addition to say, 52. Leave the aroma and flavor the same, though, as they will have no noticeable changes due to the whole/pellet utilization factor.

[Fast_Eddy]

Originally posted by BrewDog
Another thing to consider is to remember that you can shorten the boil time for the hops a little to compensate.

Assume this is the hop schedule for your recipe:

75 min total boil
60 min bittering hop addition
20 min flavor
5 min aroma

So, if the hop sched. calls for a 60 min. addition, maintain the total overall 75 min boil, but postpone the bittering addition to say, 52. Leave the aroma and flavor the same, though, as they will have no noticeable changes due to the whole/pellet utilization factor.

Actually that's probably not necessary - when wort gravity increases AAU utilization(for a set amount of time) decreases when compared to a wort of lower gravity.

[BrewDog]

Eddy-
You are (of course) right, but I meant it for when you don't want to change volume or gravity, only want to compensate for pellets in lieu of whole hops.

Sorry to confuse-

[Fast_Eddy]

Originally posted by BrewDog
Eddy-
You are (of course) right, but I meant it for when you don't want to change volume or gravity, only want to compensate for pellets in lieu of whole hops.

Sorry to confuse-

Oh yeah, I see. Sorry I'm a little out of today - stupid strep throat.

[BrewDog]

Hope you feel better soon-

[YamahaXS]

1 more suggestion, at least for the bittering hops, is that you could buy a hop with a slightly lower alpha percentage.

IF you are using DME, you can save some of it by using ziplock baggies. Freezer bags work well at keeping moisture out.