OG problems

[Stingo]

Fellow Brewing gods,

I know there are a lot of variables to not hitting proper OG for all grain brewing BUT;

I was brewing a high gravity porter today supposed to be 1.070.
I ended up with 1.060. I used 12 lbs of pale ale malt, .5 lb chocolate, 1/4 lb wheat.

I heated sparge water to 175 and figured by the time I got it into the sparge bucket and started lautering it would drop right in to where I wanted it, about 165. Lautering went fine I guess but I realized I had not kept track of sparge water temp and discovered it got as low as 150. I flash heated more water to 170 to get it up to 160 which was still maybe too low but by then I was well into lautering and perhaps too late.

I collected about 6.5 gallons for boil and stopped collecting when I was reading gravity of 1.009 or so.

For the moment I cant boil much more than 6-7 gal so should I:

1) mash more grain than the recipie calls for
2) sparge at higher temps
3) just call it a different recipie :)
4) Drink it and shut up
5) something else?

Accept my poor technique and overcompensate with recipie or pay closer attention to water or ?

Thanks for any advice.

[brewmonkey]

The crush of the grist and pH of the mash are 2 big things in making sure you hit your target gravity. Without knowing those 2 factors it would be difficult to say where you should adjust.

Well the sparge water dropping in temp is not ideal, it would not have that big of an impact on extraction IMHO, it would simply mean that you have not stopped the conversion process by denaturing the alpha/beta amalyase.

Do you know what the gravity of your first and last runnings were?

While the first would ideally be very high your last runnings out of the tun should not drop below 2.5P (1.010) and realisticly they will be a bit higher then that if you hit your gravity.

Basically the questions that would need to be answered to determine where to fix the problem would be.

What was the pH of the mash?

What was the crush of the grist (fine/coarse)?

Did you conduct a recirc prior to lautering out?

How fast did your lauter go?

How tight was the grain bed?

While there are other questions that could be addressed it has been my experience that we can fix most mash problems somewhere in the questions above.

[Grog]

My first couple of mashes I had very poor extraction (<55%). I was using a 1/2" full port ball valve and opening it wide (finished running off 12 gallons in less than 20 minutes). Needless to say, when I put the 1/4" tubing adapter on the ball valve, my efficiency went up to 72-74%-ish.

-G-

[danno]

Brewmonkey covered the salient points, but I have one question. can I ask why you were aiming for 165º for your mash? that high of a mash temp is going to denature the beta amylase activity, which will leave you with lower efficiency, and quite a bit of unfermentables in your wort. I think you'll end up with a very malty, full bodied, sweeter stout...

[Stingo]

I didnt take gravity of runnings, forgot (my 3rd AG batch)
but i stopped at 1.009 or so.

PH I dont know but I played around a bit, I added lactic acid to the sparge water. Diluted 1.5 tsp in 2qts then added 60ml to water while heating.

Crush I cant really say, crushed at supply store in roller mill.

I recirced about 5 minutes until relatively clear (dark porter)

Lautered about 1 hr

grain bed was in 5 gal phils lauter bucket on top of plastic false bottom with holes. I didnt use sparge arm cause I lost the rubber stopper in one end of arm. So I just let hot water in from sparge bucket a little at a time directly on top of grain bed. Let run into well I formed in middle.

[Stingo]

Originally posted by danno
Brewmonkey covered the salient points, but I have one question. can I ask why you were aiming for 165º for your mash? that high of a mash temp is going to denature the beta amylase activity, which will leave you with lower efficiency, and quite a bit of unfermentables in your wort. I think you'll end up with a very malty, full bodied, sweeter stout...

I wanted 165 degree for sparging not for mash. I mashed at about 153 until i discovered that too had run down to about 140. I slowly brought that temp back up by stirring in heat.

I did a single infusion mash for about 90 minutes and mashed out at 170 for 5 minutes.

[danno]

Originally posted by Stingo
So I just let hot water in from sparge bucket a little at a time directly on top of grain bed. Let run into well I formed in middle. this may be part of your problem too. you want an even grain bed so the sparge water doesn't channel, which leaves sugars behind. diffuse the sparge water somehow and aim for keeping the grain bed as level as possible...

[Stingo]

ok thanks!

[danno]

Originally posted by Stingo
I wanted 165 degree for sparging not for mash. I mashed at about 153 until i discovered that too had run down to about 140. I slowly brought that temp back up by stirring in heat.

I did a single infusion mash for about 90 minutes and mashed out at 170 for 5 minutes. OK, that's what I get for not fully reading your post... anyways, the advice stands, it's just that it doesn't apply here... :o

[BrewDog]

So I just let hot water in from sparge bucket a little at a time directly on top of grain bed. Let run into well I formed in middle.


A friend of mine uses a bit of aluminum foil on top of his mash to ensure that the water doesn't dig a hole into the grist during fly sparging. I've also heard of guys using a plastic lid - like a coffee can lid - to do the same thing. You want to add the water so that it disperses slowly and doesn't dig into the mash.

HTH-

[Stingo]

No problem. It was long and a bit convoluted.

But if your advice DID apply to my batch I would probably tell all my friends I TRIED to brew a sweet stout! uh, yeah I MEANT to do that...

[Stingo]

Originally posted by BrewDog
A friend of mine uses a bit of aluminum foil on top of his mash to ensure that the water doesn't dig a hole into the grist during fly sparging. I've also heard of guys using a plastic lid - like a coffee can lid - to do the same thing. You want to add the water so that it disperses slowly and doesn't dig into the mash.

HTH-

I like the idea of the plastic lid.

One problem I had with the phil sparge arm when I used it about 5 years ago in a previous all grain life was that I had to keep lifting the lid to see the water level, this lid you are talking about might be easier, Ill think it over. Then again, I could just cut out a piece of the Phils lid to look into the bucket and keep track of the water level, no reason not to i guess.

[BrewDog]

Stingo-
Check your PM's.

[Stingo]

PM's?

I dont think I voted for any of those...

Sorry, I cant figure out what you mean. :confused:

[BrewDog]

Personal Messages.

[Edit]Oops - I mean
Private Messages.

[fretlessman71]

Stingo - scroll up, look for the button marked [user cp] and click. If you have any Private Messages, they'll show up - it's like an email box.