Defoaming agents in draft beer?

[johnzuccarello]

I went to my nearby bar today and ordered my favorite brew. Thay asked if I wanted bottle or draft. Draft I answered. I was served a pint of what looked like flat beer and had a funny taste to it. I said this beer seems flat can I have another. They gave me another that was the same way, no beer head. I asked them if they had a problem with dirty glasses or bad beer. I was told a defoaming agent is added to kill off the beer head! Good God why I asked. I was told so they can draft beer faster and not loose any product with foamy heads. I was stunned ! Well ya may as well boil the stuff if you are going to do that! So I ordered it in a bottle instead. What the heck is the world coming too? How can ya drink a good beer without it's rich creamy head??? Extra defoaming agents for the sake of extra profit? Like enough profit isn't being made !What's more what the heck are they adding? What junk are they now trying to force us to consume? Sure glad as heck I brew my own, I think I'll just carry my own beer to the bar and drink it!

[steveh]

Blech - I haven't experienced or heard of this practice before, I hope it isn't epidemic. Was the bar adding the agent to all of their drafts? What beer were you drinking?

S.

[johnzuccarello]

I'm not sure at what level the agent is being added. I live in the south jersey area and this happened at 2 seperate bars about 10 miles apart. However it was was the SAME BEER---Ynengling. I think I will write to them and ask them, whatever is being used it sure ruins a glass of beer!

[Richard English]

It seems extraordinary to me if it's true, when you consdier than many commercial brewers add a foaming agent to their beers to make them look bright!

Draught beer made without the addition of carbon dioxide or heading compounds will naturally be fairly flat and there would be no need at all to "de-foam" it.

I suspect that the substance you were drinking had been artificially gassed up and added to chemically and that is why the bar was reducing its liveliness

[brewmonkey]

I think they have been given "correct" but erronious info.

In breweries we use a product called fermcap that can be added during the boil and/or fermentation to control the head formed during both allowing for less loss due to blow off or boil over.

However, the rate at which it is used will not affect the finished product like that and id used during the boil will not even carry over to the fermentation.

I have used this product for several years and have not experienced any negative results.

[johnzuccarello]

I Richard is right about the bar's gasing it up and adding an agent, I don't believe it's being done when it's being brewed. I guess when I go to a bar I should ask first before I order a draft beer!

[brewmonkey]

Originally posted by johnzuccarello
I Richard is right about the bar's gasing it up and adding an agent, I don't believe it's being done when it's being brewed. I guess when I go to a bar I should ask first before I order a draft beer!

The bar would not have the ability to do this. Since this is happening at more then one bar this is a problem that originates elsewhere.

[johnzuccarello]

Is it possible for the bar to have something in line with the tap?

[Richard English]

I reckon it would be perfectly possible to have some sort of "de-foaming trap" in the beer line - or even to add a de-foaming compund to the glass. It doesn't need much and the "flat pint" syndrome can even occur "naturally" if the glass has not been properly cleaned.

It's a horrible idea, though, that someone should deliberately adulterate beer in this way!

[brewmonkey]

Originally posted by Richard English
I reckon it would be perfectly possible to have some sort of "de-foaming trap" in the beer line - or even to add a de-foaming compund to the glass. It doesn't need much and the "flat pint" syndrome can even occur "naturally" if the glass has not been properly cleaned.

It's a horrible idea, though, that someone should deliberately adulterate beer in this way!

This is probably the problem. Find out if they are 3-sinking the glasses and if so what is in the last sink. Also find out how they are allowing the glass to dry. The 3rd sink should be a sani agent of some sort and is most likely going to be a quaternary ammonia or a chlorine (yeeeech!) based product. If it is not dosed correctly and then dried correctly you will get the head problems.

The 1st sink could also be a problem if the soap they are using is regular old dawn type. They generally have a fat content that will adhere to the glass also causing head problems.

If they are using a dishwasher the dose mechanism could be bad (it happens all to often) and when the glasses are superheated during the dry cycle all the crap is left clinging to the glass.

[brewmonkey]

I would also look at the tap tower itself. Are they the newer stainless kind with the plastic flow straightner or the old chrome plated kind.

Either one but more so with the plastic get dirty quickly and should be cleaned nightly to ensure the beer does not come into contact with the deposits left overnight.

[chazwicke]

This is absolutely a new one on me. I have never heard nor experienced this. It may be that there was a gas leak or the gas escaped from the keg leaving the beer flat. Was the one you ordered in the bottle flat too? As you poured it into the glass did you notice? if not, it may not have been the residual soap or an uncleaned glass. It may have just been no gas pressure. That is why Real ale is superior in my view. It needs no added gas. I would be interested in hearing what beer it was being consumed.

[paul84043]

It sounds like total crap to me. The bar owners should be taken out back and slapped silly. It's unfortunate that there is (apparently) a customer base that will accept watered down swill straight out of the tap in the guise of decent beer.
And pathetic that a bar owner will completely ruin his product to save a couple galsses of beer foam.