Gravity not dropping

[The Taxman]

Hey Brewers,

I laid down my third home brew last week, using a Coopers Canadian Blonde extract kit with Coopers sugar (combination of 75 % dextrose and 25% malto-dextrose i recall from the packet). I followed some tips i have read and got my dried yeast started by letting it sit in some warm water before tossing it in to the fermenter. I got plenty of krausen in the first few days, after two days bubbling on the surface pretty much stopped. My plastic fermenter lid does not seem to seal properly so there has not been any activity at all through the airlock (this has not proven to be a problem with my first two batches). I diligently kept my brew cool with a wet t-shirt and ice bottle at lunch time (it's summer here in Australia and as hot as buggery).

After six days in the fermenter i thought i was ready to bottle (last two brews have both been ready to go after three-five days, which I think must be due to the warm temperatures). HOWEVER ! i took a gravity reading and came up with 1014. My OG was 1034, and my study of the Coopers literature suggests i should be getting an FG of around 1005-10 when i bottle. Also, the beer was a pale, insipid, disgraceful shadow of what a man expects from his labours. I can only assume the yeast has gone dormant, or slowed right down, presumably due to the low temperature. The temp i have been maintaining is not really very cold, about 22 deg C. From what i have learned about brewing the fact that the gravity is still so high suggests there is plenty more sugar for the yeast to get stuck into, right?

Should I perservere with the low temps and wait it out, or let the brew warm up a bit and hope that kickstarts things?

Andrew
Excise-evader

[axis714]

From what Im getting 22 C is equivelant to 72F and in that case raising the temp isnt required at all. You may try lightly shaking or stirring some yeast into suspension,but my guess is that fermentation is continueing to drop your FG now your just not able to see it. Take another gravity reading in a day or 2. BTW -How hot is buggery?

[fretlessman71]

Originally posted by axis714
BTW -How hot is buggery? Axis, there are some questions to which there simply isn't an appropriate answer.... ;)

Welcome Taxman! Glad to have you on board!

Oh yeah - if you're getting 22C on the outside, it's probably a little more on the inside where the action is, so I second axis' remark about the temp. being okay. As a matter of fact, it could be a touch cooler and you'd be in a little better shape.

[The Taxman]

Thanks fellas,

'Buggery' is a technical term widely emplyed in the southern hemisphere. I'm surprised you are not familiar with it ; )

Ambient temps have been in the mid 30's C which is around 95 F. Coupled with the humidity sitting around 70% and you are looking at very uncomfortable conditions. South-east QLD (approx 3 mil residents) broke its daily electricity consumption record today. The old record was set yesterday. Its tipped to be even hotter tomorrow so we might be going for three in a row.

As for my brew - 22C is about 72F. I let it warm up yesterday and then put the wet t-shirt back on this morning, wary of the hot day ahead. I took a reading this morning and got 1013, so it has barely dropped, if at all. Still very little activity, and still very pale and watery.

I have been thinking about what might have gone wrong - when i made the batch up the instructions called for mixing the canned concentrate with 4 litres (1.05 gal) BOILING water, then topping up with room temp water to total volume of 23L (6 gal) but due to the problems i had with my last two brews being too hot to pitch the yeast once i topped up, i only used about one litre of boiling and a couple litres of hottish water. I am wondering now if the lack of heat at this early stage has affected the release of sugars from the extract ?

Any ideas ?

Andrew

[noby]

Originally posted by The Taxman
i only used about one litre of boiling and a couple litres of hottish water. I am wondering now if the lack of heat at this early stage has affected the release of sugars from the extract ?


Hi Andrew,

I shouldn't think that's your problem. As far as I know, you're only using the boiling water to dissolve the extract. Unless, of course, you've a big lump of undissolved extract sitting on the bottom of your fermenter. Otherwise hot water and a good stir should have been enough for the extract to get dissolved.

Cormac

[Bradfrd12]

I am having a very similar problem at this very moment. I made a starters kit (Muntons Gold IPA) a week ago last Sunday and wasn't too happy when I saw my OG was at 1.040. I figured that it would probably get down to 1.010 or something like that but the truth is that as of Sunday (2 days ago) it was kickin around .020. I was a little nervous but kept my cool and read through as many threads as I could find. Instead of posting a new thread asking the same question I hope I can piggyback here.

So, Sunday I racked it to the secondary fermenter (thinking to wake up and reactivate some of the yeast) and found (today) that it is currently hovering at .017. Does anyone think that it will keep going down or is this the end of the road and I should bottle now?

Thanks for not killing me for attaching onto the thread.

Bradford

[brewmonkey]

How hot is buggery?

Well I suppose that would all depend on the....:eek:

[fretlessman71]

Originally posted by Bradfrd12
I am having a very similar problem at this very moment. I made a starters kit (Muntons Gold IPA) a week ago last Sunday and wasn't too happy when I saw my OG was at 1.040. I figured that it would probably get down to 1.010 or something like that but the truth is that as of Sunday (2 days ago) it was kickin around .020. I was a little nervous but kept my cool and read through as many threads as I could find. Instead of posting a new thread asking the same question I hope I can piggyback here.

So, Sunday I racked it to the secondary fermenter (thinking to wake up and reactivate some of the yeast) and found (today) that it is currently hovering at .017. Does anyone think that it will keep going down or is this the end of the road and I should bottle now?

Thanks for not killing me for attaching onto the thread.

Bradford You're always welcome to "attach" yourself to the thread. It's not an exclusive conversation, after all... :)

If your readings have been consistent for about 2-3 days, and your temps are such that the yeast aren't complaining, I'd say you're ready to bottle. The whole idea of checking gravity is to avoid explosions later on down the line!

[brewmonkey]

The first thing I would do is try to rouse the yeast. The method I prefer to use is to give it a shot of nitrogen and then check the gravity about 24 hours later. If it has not gone down or has only gone down slightly and you feel it should have been more, then I suggest repitching.

What was the yeast strain that you used? It may be a highly flocculant yeast and it has just dropped out earlier then expected.

If you have the ability to rouse with nitrogen then that is what I would use to rouse the yeast. However whatever you use to rouse the yeast I would make sure that it meets the standard so as to not contaminate the beer. CO2 can also be used to rouse but would be my second choice. Whatever you do, do not rouse by using air/oxygen or by shaking the fermenter as this may allow oxygen in to solution which will then oxidize your beer. That is a bad thing.

With the CO2 for rousing there are a few different theories so if you want to read more on using CO2 here is the google search (http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=Rousing+yeast+with+CO2&spell=1) on it.

[The Taxman]

D'oh... logged on and read your post Brewmonkey about half an hour after giving the fermenter a good shake... i called my LHBS and spoke to a very helpful lady there (the brewers wife? I want one) who ran over the whole situation with me. She seemed to think that i would not likely get an FG much lower than 1010 using the sugar mix i used (75% dextrose, 25% maltodextrin), and now that i think about it, an OG of 1034 seems pretty low. Mindful of getting all the krausen krud off the walls and back into my beer, i gave the fermenter a good shake on her recommendation to see if the yeast needs to be woken up a bit. Now some more of the waiting game.

What do you think - would the sugar combo and the low OG mean the FG won't go down much lower? my ABV formula lines my beer up at about 3% at present which is a little thin for my tastes.

And Brewmonkey - I have no idea what strain of yeast I used, it was the little sachet that came with the concentrate. I am thinking that buying fresh yeast is my next step to better homebrew.

Cheers and thanks.
Andrew

[awilki01]

I think I might be in the same situation. My initial gravity was 1.082. Its now at 1.032, but I figured it would finish around 1.020 or so. I just racked it, so hopefully it will drop a little more. About 2-3 days ago it was at 1.034, so it has only dropped 2 points since then which is why I worry.

I am making a very strong English brown ale for a friend and I to drink. I haven't seen him for a few years and he'll be here a week. I'm sure we'll have some good times with this beer :)

[fretlessman71]

Sounds good to me!

I like my beer like I like my women... strong and brown! :D

(I married a latina, if you're wondering.....)

[Grog]

Fret - You forgot young!

[BrewDog]

Originally posted by The Taxman
What do you think - would the sugar combo and the low OG mean the FG won't go down much lower? my ABV formula lines my beer up at about 3% at present which is a little thin for my tastes.

And Brewmonkey - I have no idea what strain of yeast I used, it was the little sachet that came with the concentrate. I am thinking that buying fresh yeast is my next step to better homebrew.

Cheers and thanks.
Andrew

Andrew-

Here are some hints for your next batch-

Next time, try using some more Unhopped Malt Extract instead of the sugar/malto-dextrin mix. Try replacing it at a rate of 3:2 (ie, add 3 kilos of Extract for every 2 kilos of sugar combo). The 1.034 OG is pretty low, and will produce a pretty thin beer, especially since its based on a bunch of sugar to begin with. Using MORE Malt Extract will replace everything that the sugar gave you fermentables-wise and then add some more so that you end up with a stronger beer with more body. You can use either Dry or Liquid malt extract. Just be sure to use unhopped, or else you may be in for a surprise.

Theoretically, you should add a bit of hops to the recipe, too, but I think that you can skip this for now. The beer will end up with a little less perceived bitterness, but the body improvements will more than make up for that. Alternatively, you can extend the boil for 10 or 15 mins or so to extract more bitterness from the hops that were already in the hopped extract, as well as add a little extra color -- this is called "kettle caramelization". This comes at the expense of a bit of hop aroma in the finished beer.

As far as the yeast goes, usually the little yeast packet under the lid is worthless. They tend to be old, tired, dead yeast. You will find that using fresh yeast will improve your fermentation as well as the resulting taste.

HTH-

[fretlessman71]

Originally posted by Grog
Fret - You forgot young! Well, that fits, too - she's 20! :eek:

[awilki01]

Originally posted by fretlessman71
Well, that fits, too - she's 20!

You are the epitome of evil! We all hate you now :D

[YamahaXS]

Originally posted by fretlessman71
Sounds good to me!

I like my beer like I like my women... strong and brown! :D

(I married a latina, if you're wondering.....)


there for a minute i thought you were going to say bitter and chilly.

[Neill]

Hi Andrew,
I wrote you a longer reply but somehow lost it all so here's a condensed version:
1. Like the others stated don't be too concerned if the final gravity is not exactly as stated just as long as its not falling anymore.
2. check your room temperature if your sample jar is standing around for a while and make necessary adjustments to the gravity reading.
3. Keep cooling the fermenter until the ambient monthly temperatures fall safely below 24C.
4. If your starter kit came with a priming bucket as well as a fermenter, do a secondary fermentation. Start the primary fermentation off in the bott. bucket and after visible activity has stopped, 3/4 days to a week, transfer it to the fermenter bucket through the bottom spigot and hose. This action not only has the tendancy to shift some of the settled yeast back into susspension it also separtes the beer from the main yeast cake allowing the yeast in suspension to carry on fermenting without the danger of off flavours going into the beer from the decaying yeast cake (especially in hot weather). The beer can stay happily in the 2nd fermentor for 2 weeks or more.
5. Shift to fresh liquid yeast, I have the same problem with dry yeast when I have to use it, it's a hit or miss.
These are simple proceedures you can do which should help as you begin to develop more confidence.
Best of luck Neill

[The Taxman]

Thanks Guys,

Will take all of this onboard, especially the suggestions of using malt instead of dextrose, and going for liquid yeast. Strangely, the guy at the home brew store i went to on the weekend to pick up some supplies was of the opinion that the dried yeast that comes with the extract cans was fine, and that i would not see much difference with a fresher yeast. The latest update on the beer that started this thread is that it is bottle-conditioning now, and will be ready for a taste in another week or so - will let you know how it turns out. When i bottled it i got very little foam which is not like the previous couple of batches which were very foamy out of the fermenter. any ideas what that could mean?

Cheers
Andrew

[fretlessman71]

Depends on the temp. that your bottles are conditioning at - they're not on a concrete floor or in a cold room, are they? Near an exterior wall?

AFA the yeast goes, if you're nice to it and make a starter with the dry stuff you'd probably be fine. I guess all you're really doing is turning the dry into wet by making a starter, you know?

[ray m]

Originally posted by The Taxman:
________________________________________
...Strangely, the guy at the home brew store i went to on the weekend to pick up some supplies was of the opinion that the dried yeast that comes with the extract cans was fine, and that i would not see much difference with a fresher yeast.
________________________________________

Which LHBS was this? I'll be sure never to go there! That guy sure doesn't know anything about yeast. There is actually a world of difference between dry vs. liquid (fresh) yeast. Liquid yeast allows you to make a beer to whatever style you're trying to achieve (examples: Belgian ales; German Kolsch; English Bitters/Pale Ales). You cannot get these different flavor (& other important) beer style profiles by using ordinary dry yeast. In other words, if you're trying to make a Belgian Trippel, you're not going to get the right characteristics in the beer with dry yeast. Also, liquid yeast is produced under very sterile laboratory conditions, while dry yeast will contain some contaminants from the drying process. That process also kills a lot of the yeast cells. Lastly, do you know how long that package of dry yeast has been taped to the top of that can of extract in your kit?

Dry yeast is great, I'll admit, when you're just starting out and getting comfortable with the process (first 3 to 4 batches). After that, liquid yeast is the way to go, without question.

[The Taxman]

Thanks again guys,

Fretless - sorry, my post was a little ambiguous. What I meant was the beer had very little froth when I was tubing it into the bottles. My first couple of batches were really lively during the bottling process, meaning I got beer all over the floor. I don't know whether the lack if froth this time around means anything or not - any tips ?

Ray - the dude at this particular LHBS was less than friendly, his main concern seemed to be selling me a dose of his home-engineered cleaning/sterilising solution. I only went to this particular shop as it is the only close one open on Sundays...

I am actually thinking about trying to grow a yeast culture from a bottle of Coopers Sparkling Ale - anyone got any tips on doing this? Can I make one just with a little malt extract in water, plus the settled yeast from the Coops, leave it sit for a day or two then toss it in my extract brew ?

Andrew

[spencer]

Originally posted by awilki01
I think I might be in the same situation. My initial gravity was 1.082. Its now at 1.032

If what you are saying is correct, the you have a big beer on your hands. I'm probably the dumbest guy on this board, but I have to wonder if you are using your hydrometer correctly. 1.08 is a lot of sugar, and 1.03 is very high without any action, so - as a guess - have you ensured that liquid is the right temp for your hydrometer?

Regarding the original thread, I have had several brews never get to 1.01 & they were great. If the yeast is done, it's done. Ageing is usually a pretty good answer to most of these issues. Every batch I have ever rushed turned out to be one that I wish I would have let sit.

My $.0.02 - and it's free...

[awilki01]

Originally posted by spencer
If what you are saying is correct, the you have a big beer on your hands. I'm probably the dumbest guy on this board, but I have to wonder if you are using your hydrometer correctly. 1.08 is a lot of sugar, and 1.03 is very high without any action, so - as a guess - have you ensured that liquid is the right temp for your hydrometer?

Regarding the original thread, I have had several brews never get to 1.01 & they were great. If the yeast is done, it's done. Ageing is usually a pretty good answer to most of these issues. Every batch I have ever rushed turned out to be one that I wish I would have let sit.

My $.0.02 - and it's free...

Yes, I am reading the hydrometer and temperature correcting correctly :D

Yep, 1.08 is alot of sugar. I used more malt extract for a higher alcohol content - 7% abv now. I have seen some other recipes that say the finishing is at 1.030ish, but I should be dropping down to 1.020 for this particular brew. I went ahead and bottled it yesterday. Time will tell.....