Just found this place- 1st question

[MiScusi]

Hey everyone, I'm 23 and haven't come across a beer I haven't liked. My friend and I recently decided to try to learn as much as we could about beer and try as many different kinds as we could. It makes for some fun trips to BevMo. Since I started drinking beer (and I dont drink to get drunk, maybe only in my first couple years of college, but I really like the taste of beer) I mainly only had the most generic brands. Now with the new quest i've been trying a bunch of new ones (spaten, belhaven, sierra nevada etc). With this i'm trying to learn the flavors (hops/malt etc), and other characteristics of the beers in order to evaluate them (right now I just kinda rate them on a scale to 5 with their main flavor).

Most of the beers I've had so far were mostly hops tasting. What would be some of your recommendations for a good beer with a nice malty flavor? I'm not sure I've had one yet.

Thanks for any help and I look forward to hanging out around here!

[fretlessman71]

Welcome to the boards! Sounds like you have a really healthy attitude towards beer, and a respect for alcohol in general - two very important attributes for a beer geek to have.

The most basic definition I can give you is that anything that tastes sweet about the beer you're drinking is probably (almost certainly) going to be the malt rearing its ugly head. Porters and barleywines are famous for being very malty, whereas an India Pale Ale or a Pilsner is going to be showing off the hops a little bit more. Now, there's so much more to all of this, but that's a basic starting point. And something else to consider: A lot of people overlook lagers at first because they're not as thick and sweet tasting. If this is you, I urge you to reconsider. There aren't a lot of local brewers for you that make lagers, but see what you can find - Sam Adams makes a passable one, and Sierra Nevada's Summerfest is also very good.

As far as a good malty flavor, how about Lagunitas' Censored (aka The Kronic)?

Let us know what you're drinking, and again - welcome to the friendliest bunch of beer geeks on the 'net! :)

[MiScusi]

Thank you for the great info. In fact I am a HUGE lager fan. Spaten Premium and Firestone being my favorite thus far, along with others like BayHawk but I doubt I could ever turn one down. I have also really enjoyed the pale ales i've had (Stone, Sierra Nevada, and BJ Brewery's). I actually enjoy the bitter hops taste. Thanks again for the good info.

A couple of the more unusual ones I've had were up in Park City, the Wasatch Polygamy Porter and Chasing Tail Golden Ale. I love the slogans for these beers as much as the taste haha.

[fretlessman71]

Anytime. We're here to help! :)

[Bruno_78]

Originally posted by MiScusi
What would be some of your recommendations for a good beer with a nice malty flavor?

Which belhaven did you try?

I'm going to guess the scottish, but I could be wrong.

If that's the one, then it had a pretty malty sweet taste, moreso than hoppy, if I recall.

[BluesHarp]

Welcome aboard!

You should have access to Alesmith, I would think...very good beers in that lineup.
Bear Republic and Speakeasy are other CA breweries with excellent products, although mostly hoppy ales.

Most Scottish ales, especially a Wee Heavy (or Scotch ale) are very malty.

We have several CA members who should have no trouble in setting you up!

[chazwicke]

Welcome! So have you been keeping track of all that you have sampled? And rated all of them too? Why not tell us your rating criteria and post some of the scores?

[ray m]

One of the best malt monsters I've had is McEwan's Scotch Ale. I have yet to try to reproduce that flavor in my homebrew, but I'm still trying.

[MiScusi]

Originally posted by Bruno_78
Which belhaven did you try?

I'm going to guess the scottish, but I could be wrong.

If that's the one, then it had a pretty malty sweet taste, moreso than hoppy, if I recall.

You are correct, it was at the very start of when I started trying new ones so I kinda forget how it tasted. I should try it again and compare it now.

[MiScusi]

Originally posted by chazwicke
Welcome! So have you been keeping track of all that you have sampled? And rated all of them too? Why not tell us your rating criteria and post some of the scores?

Ok here are most of the ratings, some I forgot to do, and didn't want to do after a long layoff, so I need to sample them again... but here goes..... and remember please, i'm about as amateur as you get so I don't have an elaborate rating system, its just mostly how much I like them. ( i dont include stuff like bud light- which i do enjoy on occasions [football tailgates]). Some lagers I try to compare to miller light because it's what I use to drink the most of.

1. Chasing Tail Golden Ale- great all around. Not too heavy, not overwhelming taste but strong. 4/5
2. Belhaven Scottish Ale- Dark Amber, strong, not good with tacos. 3.5/5
3. Anchor Steam- Amber (maybe towards the dark side), pretty light, but semi-strong taste. 4.5/5
4. Newcastle- Very Dark but not too filling. Not a huge flavor, very smooth, pretty good. 4.5/5
5. BayHawk Beach Blonde 4/5
6. Hollywood Blonde 3.5/5
7. Wittekerke White- lemon 3/5
8. Spaten Premium Lager- seems overall similiar to miller light but more flavorful, smoother. On second taste, doesn't have as much flavor as I thought. Good light lager though. 4/5
9. Firestone Lager- Light, but more of a hop flavor than miller light but not too strong 3.5/5
10. Anheiser World Select- A little stronger than the Firestone Lager, but overall very similar. 3/5
11. Sierra Nevada Pale Ale- Just a tad lighter than Amber. Very strong Hop flavor that lasts a while after the sip. But also pretty smooth, easy to drink- 4.5/5

:)

2 beers in last 3 or so years that I have actually not liked that much are a Fosters that I had one time and I didn't think Heineken was that great either. I'm actually going to try them again to see if my opinion has changed.

[fretlessman71]

Don't waste your time - you were right on both counts. :D

[steveh]

Originally posted by MiScusi
8. Spaten Premium Lager- seems overall similiar to miller light but more flavorful, smoother. On second taste, doesn't have as much flavor as I thought. Good light lager though.

Whoa, hey - okay...seniority and 20+ years of beer drinking stepping in here: Bite your freaking tongue young man! Spaten and Swiller Lite have absolutely nothing in common except maybe body consistency.

If you lined the two of them side-by and sampled them together you would notice the quality malt of the Spaten outshines the canned corn flavor of the Swill.

Yes, Spaten is light in body and flavor, but it's (properly) brewed to be that way - and the beer Swiller can only aspire to be. Once you start to build your tasting and flavors repertoire, go back to the Spaten and you'll notice the smooth melanoidin quality of the Munich malts used - we discuss the quality in many German and Bohemian beers. It's a big part of Oktoberfest Märzen beers as well.

AFA malt-heavy, quality beers - look into Spaten's Optimator or Paulaner's Salvator, both doppelbocks that will set your hair on fire.

Also AFA Sam Adams Boston Lager and malt - be careful because their heavy use of Hallertauer hops tends to overpower the malt flavor.

Check this site (http://www.bjcp.org/styles04/) for further reference on style and flavor definitions of beer.

S.

[chazwicke]

I was waiting for you to see that Spaten comment Steveh. :D

Thanks for the list. Looks like you have tried some decent brews and a couple of IMHO bad ones. As you progress in your quest you will find soooo many wonderful beers that I'm certain beers like Anheuser Select will be happily forgotton. Keep us updated as you drink them.

[danno]

Steve, I will come to our new member's defense here, he did refer to the Spaten Lager, not the Spaten Pils. just last week in my BJCP class we did categories 1 and 2, and Spaten Lager is classified as a Helles (1D), IMHO closer to an American Light Lager than to a Bo Pils. (note I didn't say the swiller light, which we had, and easily picked up the corn and the green apples. ick...)

[Bruno_78]

Originally posted by steveh
we discuss the quality in many German and Bohemian beers. It's a big part of Oktoberfest Märzen beers as well.

S.


I was going to suggest the spaten oktoberfest. I really think that it's my favorite okto up to this point.

[chazwicke]

ooooh, I might have a tough time picking Oktoberfests. Spaten is certainly one of the top.

[staronstage]

MiScusi, I have to say that I am very impressed. Only with a great teacher did I begin the journey that you are now on.

If you havn't allready, look for brews from the North Coast Brewing Co. I am one of their biggest fans (am I calling myself fat?), and feel that their brews across the board are tasty and good.

[Fast_Eddy]

Originally posted by danno
Steve, I will come to our new member's defense here, he did refer to the Spaten Lager, not the Spaten Pils. just last week in my BJCP class we did categories 1 and 2, and Spaten Lager is classified as a Helles (1D), IMHO closer to an American Light Lager than to a Bo Pils. (note I didn't say the swiller light, which we had, and easily picked up the corn and the green apples. ick...)

My bet is that he had the helles at too cold of a temperature. It really buries the malty sweetness when they're too cold. I think helles is best at around 60 F, myself.

[MiScusi]

Originally posted by steveh
Whoa, hey - okay...seniority and 20+ years of beer drinking stepping in here: Bite your freaking tongue young man! Spaten and Swiller Lite have absolutely nothing in common except maybe body consistency.



Yeah, I know you're right, I know it's an insult to Spaten to compare them like that, but I think why I did that is from the color, and Spaten was a lot lighter (in flavor) than some of the things I had had recently. That's probably why. Then again, I haven't had a Miller Light in probably 6 months so maybe I forget how really watered down those are (hey they do come in handy for football tailgates though! lol)

[MiScusi]

Couple things to touch on.....

Fast_Eddy- come to think of it, the Spaten I had on tap the other night was pretty cold, compared to the temperature that my Belhaven Scottish Ale was served at. From what I have read and experienced to a certain extent, I thought it was best to have Lagers very cold, or is that just a misconception from people in the U.S.? (because it seems like everyone puts a ton of stock in how cold their beer is).

BluesHarp and ray m- thanks for the Scotch Ale tip- I was curious about these ones when I came across them and they will be on my short list now.

Staronstage- Looks like there's a lot of North Coast BC stuff at BevMo, definitely will try these soon, probably start with the Old Stock Ale.

Unfortunately my buddy who on this beer tasting quest with me lives in San Diego (about 2 hours south of me) so we don't get to share info too much except over AIM once in a while. So glad I found this board because the friends I normally hang around with would rather order 10 captain and cokes than a good beer. And on top of that, they are obsessed with bud light. My favorite thing is when once in a while we're out at a microbrewery and they order a beer sampler and then don't like any of them so I get to have them all. :D

Oh yeah, others I had on my shortlist to try soon were--
Rogue Old Crustacean
Theakston's Old Peculier
Yuengling Black and Tan
Boddington (having a chemistry background I give extra attention to anyone using that nitrogen wigit technology lol)

Thoughts?

[Fast_Eddy]

Personally I think that anything colder than 45 F is too cold for ANY beer - ever. I generally keep all of my beer at 50 F so it makes it up to 60 F pretty quickly. I think the suggested serving temp(Michael Jackson et al) for most German lager is around 45-48 F but don't gulp it down - let it warm and enjoy how the aroma and flavor "opens up". The same applies to most all good beers, IMO. If you want a real measure of a beer - taste it in the range of 45F-75F. Most high quality beer will still be quite good that warm - the balance will change but most will still be quite tasty. On the other hand try drinking Miller Lite at 70 F - gag, hurl, barf!

[steveh]

Originally posted by danno
I will come to our new member's defense here, he did refer to the Spaten Lager, not the Spaten Pils.

I know what he said, he said, "seems overall similiar to miller light..." And I vehemently disagree.

...and Spaten Lager is classified as a Helles

Spaten is my favorite German brewery, I know the difference between their Helles and their Pils - and they're both higher quality beers than anything Swiller makes. Just my point. And the 20+ years of beer drinking (21 of real appreciation).

And Eddy's probably right.

S.

[steveh]

Originally posted by MiScusi
but I think why I did that is from the color, and Spaten was a lot lighter (in flavor) than some of the things I had had recently. That's probably why.

All very true, and the color of many Bavarian Helles and Pils can fool people into thinking they're getting something akin to U.S. Macro Swillsner.

I've told this comparison in the past, but they say that wine drinkers always tend to start out enjoying whites because they're less "scary." They graduate to the reds as their flavor sensations and understanding develops, and then they rediscover the whites for all the subtle flavor and complexity they missed in the beginning. Drinking good beer parallels these steps greatly. I remember when I wouldn't touch anything but big, hardy ales - and then I rediscovered (good) Helles and Pils.

S.

[steveh]

Originally posted by MiScusi
I thought it was best to have Lagers very cold,

Colder than most ales, but never as cold as Macro Swill. Again, Eddy is right - try tasting a Swiller or Spud Light at 45° to 50°F and you'll see why everyone drinks it ice cold!

Another point, while drinking different beer is enjoyable, tasting for full effect isn't advisable from one style to another to another. That's why it's difficult to get good readings on brews at big beer fests. After a while your taste buds are shot!

S.

[eppie]

I'm glad to see another Californian interested in beer. I think you've made a great start and are well on your way to really getting to know beer on your own terms, and not based on reputation.
I've got two suggestions. First, Sierra Nevada. Most of thier beers are excelent, and realativly local for a southern californian. Look for celebration ale in the winter.
Second, Beguim (I live ther now). This country makes beer defying description. If you like lagers maybe you should look for a strong Belgian blond ale like Duvel, Lucifer, or Judas. (Ales made with pilsner malt (usually))If you are looking for something different a trappist such as Westmalle triple or Chimay white or blue (usually available to BevMo) are great beers. This takes you WAY beyond hop vs. malt flavors to yeast and lactic acids and addatives such as cloves and lemon peel (especially in a belgian wheat).
My suggestion is taste as many beers as you can and rate them on overal impression and taste. I appreciate color and mouthfeel (whatever that means), but at the end of the day it's how is the beer for you.
Good luck, and keep us updated on any great (or horrible) beers that you find.
P.S. If those freinds of yours ever come to Brugge let me know. I'll be happy to drink the other 11 ounces of thier beers for them.
________
MEDICAL MARIJUANA DISPENSARIES 818 (http://www.dispensaries.org/)

[chazwicke]

Originally posted by steveh
All very true, and the color of many Bavarian Helles and Pils can fool people into thinking they're getting something akin to U.S. Macro Swillsner.

I've told this comparison in the past, but they say that wine drinkers always tend to start out enjoying whites because they're less "scary." They graduate to the reds as their flavor sensations and understanding develops, and then they rediscover the whites for all the subtle flavor and complexity they missed in the beginning. Drinking good beer parallels these steps greatly. I remember when I wouldn't touch anything but big, hardy ales - and then I rediscovered (good) Helles and Pils.

S.

The wine analogy is a good one in general. My personal journey has not been quite like that though. I have had ales and lagers all down the line basically. (Except when only the crap was available in the 1970s.) I have always liked both. what sways me toward ales more is the British cask beers. They too, can define subtlety and nuance. The best Lagers I have had are also the freshest I have had. And these too have been in Europe. The European brewing industry has been at it a long time and whether it is a lager or an ale they tend to have it down. American micros make some exquisite beers but I think it will be a few more decades before they really will consistantly match the precision or fine line talent of their better Euro counterparts.

[BluesHarp]

Originally posted by MiScusi
Oh yeah, others I had on my shortlist to try soon were--
Rogue Old Crustacean
Theakston's Old Peculier
Yuengling Black and Tan
Boddington (having a chemistry background I give extra attention to anyone using that nitrogen wigit technology lol)

Thoughts?

Good choices, I was going to suggest Old Peculiar.
See if you can get some Old Foghorn from Anchor to compare to the Old Crusty, or an Old Numbskull from Alesmith, or an Old Guardian from Stone, or a Sierra Nevada Bigfoot, or....ahhhhh!!:eek:

Phew!...barleywine overload...actually, they are great to compare; to see how the hops/malt balance changes from one to the other. The only problem is, you need a few friends to help out!

[fretlessman71]

I recently had an Old Peculier for the first time in many years; gotta say it didn't live up to my expectations. I heard that when the brewery changed hands the recipe changed a bit too, and got a little blander... that's just what I experienced. Having beers I haven't had in a long time almost always bring back memories for me, and I got nothing. Maybe you ought to look for this stuff called Old Engine Oil... it sounds pretty amazing!

[chazwicke]

Old Engine Oil is superb There are actually 2 varieties available. (If I knew you had not had it, Fret, I'd have put one in that box.

I think Theakston OP is going back to the Theakston family. Hopefully it will again become as tasty as it once was.

[chazwicke]

Originally posted by BluesHarp
Good choices, I was going to suggest Old Peculiar.
See if you can get some Old Foghorn from Anchor to compare to the Old Crusty, or an Old Numbskull from Alesmith, or an Old Guardian from Stone, or a Sierra Nevada Bigfoot, or....ahhhhh!!:

Phew!...barleywine overload...actually, they are great to compare; to see how the hops/malt balance changes from one to the other. The only problem is, you need a few friends to help out!

I think since Fret is doing the porter tasting, You should volunteer to do the Barleywines.:D

[fretlessman71]

Originally posted by chazwicke
I think since Fret is doing the porter tasting, You should volunteer to do the Barleywines.:D Yes, and if he agrees to it, I'll change what I'm sending him in the mail next week and include a few from my neck of the woods.

And he has to do 4 in a sitting, and do live posts so we can laugh at him....

[chazwicke]

I'll bet we hear at least one "Dang Laptop". :D