Wort Chilling Question...

[Sven6]

To cool my wort, I'd been adding ice directly to the hot wort... it seems to work fine... it brings the temp down quickly and I haven't noticed any 'off flavors'...

I had a friend tell me that by doing this, I'm risking infection and oxidation, and I should get a wort chiller...

Just wondering if anyone else has had any experience using ice to cool their wort?


:confused:
Sven

[toneyc]

I did this same thing for several months because it does seem to work so well. It brings the temp down almost instantly. But I stopped for the same reasons you're asking, it seemed like there was too much of a risk of introducing bacteria. I still haven't found anything that works as well, though.

:)
Toney.

[Payson]

Prior to owning a chiller, I'd immerse my brewpot in a bath of ice but would never add it. I'd agree with your friend. Too risky in my opinion. Not to mention, wort chillers are easy to make and quite effective.

[danno]

refrigerators and freezers are nasty places, full of bacteria and other icky stuff... I'd suppose that if you boiled your water for your ice, and then froze it in an enclosed container, you'd probably be OK, but remember that freshly boiled and still warm wort is the spot in your brewing cycle that is the most susceptible to infection. so in my best Clint Eastwood impression, do you feel lucky?

[Sven6]

I'd seen my friend's chiller in action, but wasn't overly impressed... it seemed to take a long time compared to adding ice (like Toney said, it's an immediate temp drop.)

You would think the ice from the store would be bacteria free, but I'd even used the ice from the icemaker in my 'fridge a couple of times... It seems like as long as you're careful to not airate it until it's under 100F you'd be OK...

I've been thinking about getting a chiller for a while... I guess speed in cooling is not worth the risk of ruining 5gallons of precious wort...

Thanks Guys
:D

[brewmonkey]

Adding ice is ok but once you drop below 180F it is risky.

If you want a faster method with a chiller buy 2 and make it a 2 stage with the first in an ice bath. Yes it is a bit more money but you get all the benefits of the ice without the risk.

Basically put the first chiller in a cooler with some ice and water and add some kosher salt. The salt will help keep the temp down. You should be able to chill your wort down in under 20 minutes with this method.

[SoxyinMO]

Sorry Sven6, this is a bit beside the point, but you can't imagine the things that were going through my head at the thought of what question could chill wort :confused: It would have been a doozie! (and helpful, too.)

PS - agree with folks here : Ice is a bacterial haven. Best to take a bit more time and be safe.

[I'mRocketMan]

I use the spring water from my local supermarket. I stick 3 gallons in the freezer until it's time to chill the wort. I add the nearly frozen water to my fermenter then pour the wort into it. I can get the temp under 80* almost instantly. If the jugs are frozen I cut the top out of the jug and dump that ice in.

Cheers! Rocket

[wild]

I use the ice method also when brewing at home. The bottled water I use for my brew comes in sealed containers. I just pop 3 1-gallon jugs into the freezer before I start my sanitizing. By the time I'm ready to chill my wort, I've got clean ice to add. I just do a quick sanitization of the container first and viola. But I am in the process of finding all the parts needed for a CF chiller so I can start full boils.

Wild

[fretlessman71]

Now those last two posts are the easiest viable way I've ever heard of to chill that wort down - it's perfect! One of the little known tenets of the Murphy's Law philosophy states that "if you have a difficult task to accomplish, give it to a lazy man - he'll find an easier way to do it.":D

Rocket, Wild, please take this as a compliment - I mean it!

[guildofevil]

A quick note about spring water.

People assume that because it comes in a bottle, it's bacteria free. This is not the case.

A friend of mine tested a bunch of spring waters for a microbiology project he was doing in college, a few years ago and he discovered that the average spring water had more bacteria than the local tap water.

Spring water is a natural thing. Unfortunately so are bacteria.

Séan

[toneyc]

Maybe, but here "spring water" might be from your local municipal water supply and has been exposed to UV, sediment filtered, and reverse osmosis treated. It truly is dead water.

:eek:
Toney.

[guildofevil]

I did not know that.

How can they call it spring water when it doesn't come from a spring?

Séan

[Sven6]

I guess I should've known I not the only lazy homebrewer ;) ...

As for the "spring water" thing... Technically, it originates from a spring (the Edwards Aquifer), it just makes a couple of additional stops before ending up in a bottle... Its the same stuff that's in the municipal water supply...

We actually have prety good municipal water here... My friend in San Marcos (40miles North) has water that smells like it came out of a pool, Yuck...


Sven

[BluesHarp]

Originally posted by guildofevil
I did not know that.

How can they call it spring water when it doesn't come from a spring?

Séan

Well, in many cases it does...originally. Then it visits the processing plant.

Kind of like how McDonalds can call their nuggets "chicken".;)

[SoxyinMO]

Well, in many cases it does...originally. Then it visits the processing plant. Kind of like how McDonalds can call their nuggets "chicken"

LOL!

The Palomar Mt. Spring water truck in So. Cal used to come up to Anza (or I guess it would be down to Anza) in the high desert, and fill-up at a water pump outside the Mobile gas station. :eek:

[Sven6]

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Well, in many cases it does...originally. Then it visits the processing plant. Kind of like how McDonalds can call their nuggets "chicken"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Or like how BMC can call their Barley-Pop "beer" ;)

Sven

[HogieWan]

Barley-Pop - good word (or is that two words):confused:

[SoxyinMO]

Barley-Pop - good word (or is that two words)

HobieWan, a hyphenated word counts as one word; Sven, Barley-Pop is an excellent word!

[Heycock]

Sorry to digress back to the subject :) ....

I use to do this at first and saw the problems you're trying to deal with.

I took some used water bottles, the smaller the better, and froze them leaving head space for the ice to expand. After frozen you can sanitize the outside of the bottle and just put the bottle in.

I don't like putting plastic bottles in almost boiling water though, so now I sometimes use this method to speed up that slow final temp drop to inoculation temps when using my wort chiller.

[davesarman]

I haven't seen the method I use posted by anyone yet, so here goes...I bought a washing machine hose and attached it to the faucet on the laundry tub in my basement. When done boiling, I wrap the hose around my kettle (it's long enough to wrap around about 3 times) and run cold water through it. I place the stopper in the drain and let the tub fill with water up to the level of wort in the kettle. (Placing a weight on top of the lid to make sure the pot doesn't start floating if the water level gets too high.) Then adjust the stopper so that water drains out of the tub at about the same rate the hose is filling it with to maintain a consistent level of water. Takes about 15-20 minutes to get my wort down to about 90 degrees and then I transfer to the fermenter. Adding tap water up to 5 gallons drops it to about 68-70 degrees. I was going to buy an immersion chiller, but the guy at the LHS said that if my method cools the wort in 20 minutes, not to mess with it. Never had any problems with contamination or off flavors in the 37 batches I've done using this method. Thoughts anyone?

[ray m]

I have a thought.....that is an extremely ingenius idea. I agree with your LHBS guy.....if it ain't broke, don't fix it!

[SoxyinMO]

I agree with Ray! How ingenious Dave! An external wort Chiller!

[eyepah]

Just a few things to add here....I learned from an old Eskimo near Anchorage, Alaska.

1. Use an immersion chiller while the pot is plunged in an ice bath. Pot too big for the sink? Use the bath tub. Tub too small? Get a large galvanized kegger-style party tub.

2. Have a pint or two while you wait. It really wont take long, even if you use the bath alone. Have a pint even if you are not chilling wort.

3. Building a chiller costs about 1/2 of the cost of a manufactured unit. Learn to sweat and make cool copper gadgets. Your significant other will be more impressed than the first time she/he witnessed the bubbling airlock.

4. You need not cool lower than the ambient temp of the yeast.

[fretlessman71]

I think someone needs to take a brew pot and some copper tubing and just solder the tubing around the outside of the pot. No contamination, no wrapping stuff around... sounds pretty simple to me!

[Sven6]

Those are all pretty good ideas...

Here I was, thinking about just buying a chiller from the HBS... sounds like a good excuse to go to Home Depot :D ...

Sven

[fretlessman71]

PAH!..... as if you needed an excuse to go to Home Depot.... :D

[HogieWan]

I do partial boils and I put some ice in the bathtub and fill it to just below the level of wort in the pot. Cover off and stirring at first and then I put the cover on when the temp drops a good bit. I then dump the wort into cool tap water (filtered because my local water sucks). 20 mins from flame out to pitch.

[Sven6]

Originally posted by fretlessman71
PAH!..... as if you needed an excuse to go to Home Depot.... :D
Nah, I dont need a reason... but the wife now requires that I have one

I dont think she'll let me start another brewing project while my 'chest-freezer to kegorator' project is sitting unfinished in the middle of the garage.

[fretlessman71]

Originally posted by SoxyinMO
Sorry Sven6, this is a bit beside the point, but you can't imagine the things that were going through my head at the thought of what question could chill wort :confused: It would have been a doozie! So how's this, then: Hey Wort, how long you gonna have that 2nd face mask for?

[danno]

Originally posted by davesarman
Thoughts anyone? two things I can think of that would possibly improve your method. first, (and maybe you didn't mention this) get your water to move around your kettle, and not just draining. I'd have the end of my hose parallel and next to the kettle. moving water chills faster. secondly, stir your wort in the opposite direction as your water (gently, to avoid any HSA) and you'll speed up your chilling some more...

[davesarman]

Originally posted by danno
two things I can think of that would possibly improve your method. first, (and maybe you didn't mention this) get your water to move around your kettle, and not just draining. I'd have the end of my hose parallel and next to the kettle. moving water chills faster. secondly, stir your wort in the opposite direction as your water (gently, to avoid any HSA) and you'll speed up your chilling some more...

Actually, I already do both of those. The water is coming out of the hose at a rate fast enough to keep the water in the tub moving fairly well. And when I take the lid off to check the temp, I swirl the wort around in the opposite direction, hoping to increase the efficiency of the heat exchange.

[eyepah]

No Need for the Home Despot.....


A little story....

So my friend and I afforded a ski vacation by plumbing a friends home on the south shore of Lake Superior (300 annaul inches). This place is falling into a mine! No chance of playing a fair game of marbles (or pool) in this house. We bypassed 300 feet of flexible 1/2 inch. This 1/2 inch will be removed and in my possesion soon - for free (cost incurred upon installation of new plumbing).

The point of this little vinette: Soon is time to build the ultimate chiller:

A wort chiller fit for Nanook himself: 300 feet of chilling capacity. Internal double coil. External coil. A double line feed for maximum eficiency.


What do YOU think?

[wild]

With all the line, will there be any room for the wort?

Wild

[fretlessman71]

You may have enough for 2... you can experiment with different designs!

[chazwicke]

I have a copper wort chiller that has never been used. It still has the price tag on it I think. (I'm writing from my office. It is home in my basement storage area.) I was thinking of putting it on Ebay. I'll take a picture and post it here first before it goes to Ebay.

[fretlessman71]

What did you pay for it - do you remember off hand?

[chazwicke]

no. it was a long time ago. but I think it still might have the tag on it.

[Minor_Deity]

Well when I am not brewing in someone else's backyard, ;) my method is this.

When it's about time to pull the wort off the burner, I put about three inches of water in my sink, and add some ice. Pull the brew pot of the burner (wort chiller is already in the pot) and place in the sink. Hook up the wort chiller connection and start the water flow, draining it to the other side of the dual sink. After this I get my auto syphon ready, and put the syphon in the pot, and wrap the extra tubing around the bottom in the sink, and put the end into my Primary right at the top so it will splash real good as it pours inside. Then I dump all the ice in my ice maker in to the sink on top of the extra syphon tubing and give the syphon a pump to start the flow. The syphon is pulling from the bottom of the pot where the wort has chilled the most, and the hotter wort at the top is slowly dragged down the sides of the chiller coils as the level drops. Plus it gets an extra chill from the ice as it passes through the syphon hose. My chill time is actually just however long it takes to syphon the 5gal of wort. Both the batches I did in the winter actually got to cold(due ground temps) even though I turned of the wort chiller part way through.

[Sven6]

Oh, Ok... I get it now Minor_D, your wort chiller only works good at YOUR house... My bad...:p

[maltyapples]

I know this is an old thread, but has anyone considered cooling with something besides water? many oils have 6 times the heat capacity that water does, and with it running through a cooler on a pump system, that might work.

On the geekier side, people could always spring for getting a glass chemistry condenser (coil style, not bubble) and running icewater alongside it. it certainly would look cool.