White mold

[blatant_brewer]

I'm fermenting an extract ale and have noticed the
formation of tons of what looks like gray-white mold spores
on the surface of beer. The yeast, which turned out to be a dud, didn't kick in ever, and for three days the White Fungus had free reign. I added a fresh packet of Wyeast Scotch Ale on top and since then the wort's been bubbling away normally.
My question: has anyone ever finished out a batch that started out this way? The white mold doesn't leave a toxic residue, does it??
Thanks.

Beebs

[HogieWan]

Originally posted by blatant_brewer
I. . . noticed the formation of tons of what looks like gray-white mold spores on the surface of beer.
Beebs

Sounds like the yeasties floating on top to me.

Anyway - nothing that can harm you will survive in beer. And, to quote the RealBeer mantra - it's pretty hard to completely @#%& up a batch of beer.

[blatant_brewer]

Originally posted by HogieWan
Sounds like the yeasties floating on top to me.

Anyway - nothing that can harm you will survive in beer. And, to quote the RealBeer mantra - it's pretty hard to completely @#%& up a batch of beer.

Yeah, it didn't smell skunked, so I figured I could still tun the tide in my favour. Guess I'll have a funky brew in the Belgian Ale style. And if I die from beer, I'll be the envy of every man in the world.

Beebs

[HogieWan]

I think what you thought was mold was some yeast - ale yeast is TOP-FERMENTING and will float on top as it does most of its work.

[blatant_brewer]

Originally posted by HogieWan
I think what you thought was mold was some yeast - ale yeast is TOP-FERMENTING and will float on top as it does most of its work.

D'oh. You're probably right. Though I saw absolutely no signs of active fermentation, and the white stuff on top was clumpy white, ropy and connected by gelatinous mycelium mat. Nothing like the yeast in my experience.

Hopefully it'll get pushed out by the fermentation.

Beebs

[Fast_Eddy]

No known toxic organism is known to grow in beer.

Possibly what you perceived as mold blooms were yeast flocs floating to the top of the wort. But what you're describing does not sound like a typical fermentation - so you're kind of in the wait and see area. Very likely it's fine - but monitor the taste after about a 1.5 weeks of fermentation. With experience you can tell how the young beer is progressing and if it's on the right track.

An aside - while ale yeast is regarded as top fermenting very few strains are still true top croppers. Wyeast 1318 is the only one that immediately pops to mind.

[HogieWan]

Originally posted by Fast_Eddy
An aside - while ale yeast is regarded as top fermenting very few strains are still true top croppers. Wyeast 1318 is the only one that immediately pops to mind.

I just dumped Wyeast 1056 (American Ale) in a batch last night and I had quarter-sized "bubbles" of yeast at noon today, and after work I saw a full layer of white yeastie beasties floating on the top.

[guildofevil]

It could be a wild yeast. Some of those buggers look pretty funky when fermenting.
How do you feel about lambic?

Séan

[ray m]

Originally posted by blatant_brewer:
________________________________________
D'oh. You're probably right. Though I saw absolutely no signs of active fermentation, and the white stuff on top was clumpy white, ropy and connected by gelatinous mycelium mat. Nothing like the yeast in my experience.
________________________________________

Oooooh....."ropy"?? That isn't yeast, I'm afraid. I know BrewMonkey or Stodbrew can give a proper diagnosis, but it sounds like some sort of infection set in. Have to wait & see, I guess.:(

[Fast_Eddy]

Originally posted by HogieWan
I just dumped Wyeast 1056 (American Ale) in a batch last night and I had quarter-sized "bubbles" of yeast at noon today, and after work I saw a full layer of white yeastie beasties floating on the top.

All fermentations(lagers and ales) will produce a kraeusen(what you're noting the formation of) to some degree - usually it'll get to be three-five inches thick. A large component of kraeusen, is in fact, yeast that ride the evolving CO2 to the top of the fermenting wort. But that is not what's indicative of a true top cropping strain of ale yeast. A true strain will not sediment to the bottom once the fermentation slows -- it rises to the top -- such that you're left with a layer of almost 100% yeast floating on top of the beer. This is why the early most favored strains of ale yeast were "top fermenters" because they could be harvested from the top of the OPEN fermenter once the fermentation was over.

[Fast_Eddy]

Originally posted by ray m
Originally posted by blatant_brewer:
________________________________________
D'oh. You're probably right. Though I saw absolutely no signs of active fermentation, and the white stuff on top was clumpy white, ropy and connected by gelatinous mycelium mat. Nothing like the yeast in my experience.
________________________________________

Oooooh....."ropy"?? That isn't yeast, I'm afraid. I know BrewMonkey or Stodbrew can give a proper diagnosis, but it sounds like some sort of infection set in. Have to wait & see, I guess.:(

Ropy?? Oh I see he and I posted at the same time. Yeah if it's ropy(usually acetobacter) it's pretty much infected. If you have limited ferment space - I'd dump it.

[blatant_brewer]

Originally posted by Fast_Eddy
Ropy?? Oh I see he and I posted at the same time. Yeah if it's ropy(usually acetobacter) it's pretty much infected. If you have limited ferment space - I'd dump it.

Well, this this Scotch Ale is all I have brewing right now, and I don't see myself having the leisure of making another batch for at least another month.
All this wait and see business is driving me a bit barmy, I must admit. But if the wort tastes awful at bottling time, I'll dump it then.
Thanks again for the feedback, everyone.

Beebs

[HogieWan]

Originally posted by blatant_brewer
if the wort tastes awful at bottling time, I'll dump it then.

Beebs


Dont do that - if you're going to keep it - keep it. It will taste funny at bottling time. I thought my first batch was infected when I bottled it, but I rode it out and it is one tasty brew.

[Fast_Eddy]

It one of those deals that when you taste it you'll know if you want to keep it. If it really is acetobacter then the taste will be vinegary or cidery - works well for lambics, maybe not so well for Scotch Ale.

At any rate - if you determine that this batch was infected make sure you do a very thorough job of sanitizing after you've bottled/dumped it. Acetobacter can continue to give you problems for a long time if not properly eradicated.

[blatant_brewer]

Took a grav reading this morning after four days of good fermentation: 1.030. Hmmm. Seems los
Also took a taste: I detected a vinegar taste, not overwhelming mind you, so I'd say an acetobacter diagnosis for the white scum pretty much hit the target. Overall, the Scotch Ale Wort smells nice and alely, if a tad oversweet and honeyish.
Cheers,

Beebs

[Otis_The_Drunk]

The only thing I can contribute to this is if it is a acetobacter infection you may run the risk of "Bottle Grenades" if bottled...
It's better to be safe than sorry.

[blatant_brewer]

So I suppose I'd just better hand over the "dangerous" brew to you for "de-commissioning"?? A handle like "____-the_drunk" makes one awfully suspicious of your motives...:D
Update: fermentation has slowed to a trickle, will pull out my supply of swing-tops for bottling ... I shiver thinking back on how much skunked Grolsch I had to drink.

[Fast_Eddy]

Actually acetobacter is an aerobic bacteria so it somewhat lessens the chance that it will create bottle grenades - not a guarantee.

[Otis_The_Drunk]

No alterior motives here, More of a concern for a mess you may have to clean up later....

In 16 years I have only had beer blow up twice, and that was because I didn't follow my gut feelings about something.

When my gut tells me not to bottle, my gut feeling is usually right.

[Otis_The_Drunk]

Actually acetobacter is an aerobic bacteria so it somewhat lessens the chance that it will create bottle grenades - not a guarantee.

True Fast eddy, but like I said it is better to be safe than sorry.
I have also gotten beers before that had a white moldy scum on top and the beer ended up tasting like ass and never improved no matter how long I aged it...

Just my gut feeling on the subject, no disrespect intended.

[Fast_Eddy]

Oh no disrespect taken - read my early replies on this thread...

I wouldn't bottle a batch that I was fairly sure was infected. I'd dump it and start over.

I'm just passing along fact with the aerobic bacteria thingie.

[voodoo]

Originally posted by blatant_brewer
So I suppose I'd just better hand over the "dangerous" brew to you for "de-commissioning"?? A handle like "____-the_drunk" makes one awfully suspicious of your motives...:D

... I shiver thinking back on how much skunked Grolsch I had to drink.

I don't have anything relevant to add. I just wanted to comment that I laughed out loud when I read the quote above! Too funny..

[blatant_brewer]

Update:

I bottled last night (grav reading about 1.015) using a pre-boiled mesh bag to fliter out the floating white gunk
The brew didn't taste bad at all -- slight hint of vinegar, but in general, alely and malty. Two pint glasses of the green (er, that is, not yet bottle conditioned) brew produced no obvious ill effects in the guinea pig (me).

Given the travails this batch has cost me, I'm putting the bottles in a nice plastic lined box (in case of explosion, thanks for the warning Otis; I took you seriously, but I couldn't resist getting a joke in) in a far corner of my spare storage room, throwing away the key, taking its number off my speed dial, tossing out all of the pics of the two of us and forgetting all about it.

Some months from now, after bottling another batch (perfect, this time) curiosity may seize upon me and taking crowbar in hand, I'll see what has come of my prodigal beer.

Thanks for your advice, everyone. It just goes to show, once again, how hard it is to screw up beer completely.