Double Decoction Pils Report

[Fast_Eddy]

Just sampled my first decocted Czech Pils for the first time. I gotta say that it could go either way.

It's very bright already....nice warm yellow color(like first pee of the day after taking a multi-vitamin :p )

Didn't smell so good(maybe a little sulfur smell still hanging around) to begin with but it was very cold(around 34 F it's still lagering). Once it warmed a bit(45 F or so) the smell of Saaz started coming through.

I drank about .75 pint. Had a good firm malt taste to it which is in line with the higher final gravity (1.017) and some hop bitter, not too much. Fairly clean on the end, no real after taste.

Still that slight sulfury smell when it's very cold has me a little worried. Somebody want to make me feel better about this? Or is just gonna be one of those wait and see deals?

I'm going to let it lager another 1.5 to 2 weeks.

Brewing a 1.075 scotch ale tomorrow...that's gonna be sweet

[brewmonkey]

Still that slight sulfury smell when it's very cold has me a little worried. Somebody want to make me feel better about this? Or is just gonna be one of those wait and see deals?

Cold conditioning will remove the sulfury smell/aroma just give it time. I would probably come up a bit from the 34 to around 38-40 to allow it to condition.

[Fast_Eddy]

Hehe...that was exactly my thinking last night....moved the thermostat to be centered around 42 F (so temp should be between about 40 F and 44 F.

Thanx for the advice.

[paul84043]

Eddy, do you do a "diacetyl rest"?
From what I hear, there is quite a bit of benefit in bringing it back up to a warmer temp for a day when preparing to rack to the secondary, it allows the yeast to "wake up" a bit and it consumes a great deal of the waste products that are more difficult to get rid of with the cold ferment.

It's not only for Diacetyl, that's just what they call it.

I typically lager in the primary around 48 to 52F, then I drop a few degrees for the secondary.
I have a Corona Clone going for the misses right now.

[Tweek]

I am intrigued by decotion brewing. I have never tried it. There seems to be a real split in the way people feel about it. Some say that you cant tell the diference between a decotion and an infusion. Some swear that you cant have a truely good beer unless it was decocted. With my current setup it would make a time consuming task like decotion and turn it into a unbearable monster of a task. When I get a better setup I am goping to try it just to see for myself.

[Fast_Eddy]

Originally posted by paul84043
Eddy, do you do a "diacetyl rest"?


Yes I had 1.5 day long diacetyl rest @ 60 F. Diacetyl rest is an inherrent part of czech style brewing. If you've ever wound up with too much diacetyl in one of your lagers(I have - blech) then this becomes part of your process. For lager temp, the czech's still use very cold lagering....but they also have a huge pitch rate.


Originally posted by Tweek
I am intrigued by decotion brewing. I have never tried it..... turn it into a unbearable monster of a task. When I get a better setup I am goping to try it just to see for myself.

I used under modified moravian so single infusion wouldn't have worked...step might've worked - not sure. I just decided to take the plunge and give it a try. I used two brewpots, one for the decoctions and one for the main mash and a quart sauce pan to transfer the decoctions. What takes so long is pulling 40-50% of the grain part of the mash out and then bringing it to a boil for 20-30 minutes, then add back....let it rest....do it again....jeez, it took nine hours to brew. This beer better wind up being very,very,very,very good or I have serious doubts about trying it again for a very,very,very,very long time ;)

[shughes600]

Originally posted by paul84043
Eddy, do you do a "diacetyl rest"?
From what I hear, there is quite a bit of benefit in bringing it back up to a warmer temp for a day when preparing to rack to the secondary, it allows the yeast to "wake up" a bit and it consumes a great deal of the waste products that are more difficult to get rid of with the cold ferment.

It's not only for Diacetyl, that's just what they call it.


I am brewing a Czech pilsner right now. It is a Urquell clone. It is in primary. Pilsner Urquell does not use a diacetyl rest on purpose. Diacetyl is part of the flavor. I assume Fast Eddy is doing the Budvar version?

[shughes600]

Originally posted by Fast_Eddy

I used under modified moravian so single infusion wouldn't have worked...step might've worked - not sure. I just decided to take the plunge and give it a try. I used two brewpots, one for the decoctions and one for the main mash and a quart sauce pan to transfer the decoctions. What takes so long is pulling 40-50% of the grain part of the mash out and then bringing it to a boil for 20-30 minutes, then add back....let it rest....do it again....jeez, it took nine hours to brew. This beer better wind up being very,very,very,very good or I have serious doubts about trying it again for a very,very,very,very long time ;)

Eddy,
How thick were your pulls? How did you judge them? I got a Urquell kit from St. Pats with no directions. Being an enterprising fool i modified some decoction schedules i had seen to the description of the brew process i found in a story about Urquell. All found on the internet. The temps looked real wierd. 95, 127, 143, 163. I didn't get the 143 rest? So I added a 158 rest. i tried to pull thick, thick, thick, thin. i got better as i went. I used only one brew pot and a sauce pan. I would do it again for the advantages you can gain, but I think you need undermodified malt which is hard to find. I THINK you can do bad things decocting a fully modified malt, not real bad just mess up head retention and stuff.

[Fast_Eddy]

Originally posted by shughes600
Eddy,
How thick were your pulls? How did you judge them?I THINK you can do bad things decocting a fully modified malt, not real bad just mess up head retention and stuff.

Yes the Budvar from St Pats is what I brewed. PU's non-diacetyl rest is more of the exception to rule I think.

I used the decoction schedule and equations I found on the St Pats site http://www.stpats.com/grainins.htm

I found a few places (including the Dave Miller's Homebrewing Guide) that said the decoctions should be as thick as possible - just enough liquid to stir it. The mash, of course, should be very thin.

Shughes, How long did yours take you?

[shughes600]

I think it took just under forever. I was very happy with temperature control. It was a heck of a lot easier to maintain tmep than with infusion. I erred on the side of conservatism on my pull times. I pulled at the end of the rest time and didn't count the time while the pull was out as part of the rest. I didn't have faith that I was doing it right. I would definately do it again. I think that the decoction portion would take about three hours. An hour for the sparge. 2 hours for the boil. 1 hr for cooling, straining, and pitching. About an hour more than a regular all grain day. I think with practice I will get quicker. Sort of like everything else. One major road block I did not plan for was my napping. I did a late night brew and dozed off a few times.

[Fast_Eddy]

Originally posted by shughes600
....One major road block I did not plan for was my napping. I did a late night brew and dozed off a few times.

I hear you brother!! Are you married? Late night brewing(for me) happens when I'm pretty sure that the little missus is in no mood for me to be brewing again.

Actually I was re-tasting my pils this morning and I've messed around and caught a little buzz :D

[Fast_Eddy]

Update to taste.....I had an entire glass of the pils last night and I'm thinking that it's going to F***ing awesome!! :)

If it improves to where I think it's going to, then I would definitely do another double decoction batch.

[Fast_Eddy]

OK guys...last time I'm gonna kick this up to the top.

This beer is turning out awesome...I would definitely recommend trying the St Pats recipe for Budvar all-grain and do the double decoction...it's worth it....


Comment: I've had an awesome beer night...

1) Two of my own czech pils
2) Arrogant Bastard Ale
3) Dead Guy Ale
4) Lindeman's Kriek
5) Belhaven Wee Heavy
6) Young's Double Chocolate(I'm toast...nighty,night ;) )

[paul84043]

I'm jealous, I am a die hard gadget freak and I love to tinker. I have the space and the time, but my in-laws are really straight laced mormons, so...out of a little fear on my wifes part and just plain old respect, we try not to rub the beer in thier faces. Her dad knows we toss one occasionally but her mom lives in her own little world where everyone is LDS and people that drink are evil.
I try to keep the beer paraphenalia out of sight in the basement, as well as the fermemters. We keep the bottles cleaned up off of the counter whenever they build up.
It sucks and I think that one day it's going to end, but for the time being I can't make the big, super cool, time consuming brewing setup that would make all my friends drool in envy...

I'm resigned to extract and partial mash brewing in stuff that can be moved around and hidden behind a shelf in the basement.
Sometimes I feel like I'm 17 again and sneaking around trying to get away with something...:(

[shughes600]

Originally posted by Fast_Eddy
OK guys...last time I'm gonna kick this up to the top.

This beer is turning out awesome...I would definitely recommend trying the St Pats recipe for Budvar all-grain and do the double decoction...it's worth it....


What is the taste like? I've only had the Urquell, and that is often stale or skunked.

[Fast_Eddy]

I'm not very good at describing this kind of thing but I'll give a try....

I think the best way to describe it is very clean. You can clearly taste malt, some alcohol, and a noticeable(but not overly so) bitter on the end. No other tastes in there that I detect. The nose is mild saaz-y.

I'm serving it at about 48 F right now. When it warms a bit the saaz aroma comes through a little more and it seems to taste a little sweeter. It leaves a very pleasant hop taste in your mouth that lingers for a while. Refering to a different thread on this board....this is a great lawn mower light-medium bodied beer ;)

I just had half a pint(final test for any gravity changes and temp check)....damn it's good.

It's around 3.8 % ABV.