Gulden Draak

[stronk]

Probably the wrong forum (but we don't have a 'warnings' forum).

Just a quick note (not expecting any replies) about 330cl bottles of Gulden Draak, a dark and sweet belgian beer, one of my favourites. Their bottling line has 2 faults: 1. It doesn't seal the crown caps tight enough and they often leak 2. The front label almost always falls off, due to the crappy glue they use (this is good for homebrewers, but not so good for presentation).

I thought you might want to know.

[fretlessman71]

Did you find this out the hard way, with some sort of disaster? Or was this old knowledge you just for some reason decided to pass along today? Either way, it's good to know. Guess I wont be asking you to send any to the states anytime soon! :)

[newportstorm]

Originally posted by fretlessman71
Guess I wont be asking you to send any to the states anytime soon! :)

Plenty available here in New England. Singles and mix-packs with other brews like Piraat, Bornem(s), etc.

Never really noticed an issue with their bottles. Isolated problem for a length of time on the bottling line or has this always been your experience?

Cheers!

[stronk]

Well, I based the observation on this evidence:

On a trip to Europe, I picked up a bottle of Gulden Draak, along with lots of other bottles of good beer. When I got it home, it turned out that the GD had leaked slightly through the crown cap. I drank it immediately and it tasted as good as ever.

Several months later (yesterday, in fact), I bought another bottle from a local off-license which had exactly the same problem. As the two incidents were completely isolated w.r.t. suppliers, etc., I inferred that the problem must be at the bottling plant.

Incidentally, I fixed it using my lever crown-capper, so it's not a problem with the caps or bottles themselves.

[newportstorm]

Originally posted by stronk
Well, I based the observation on this evidence:

On a trip to Europe, I picked up a bottle of Gulden Draak, along with lots of other bottles of good beer. When I got it home, it turned out that the GD had leaked slightly through the crown cap. I drank it immediately and it tasted as good as ever.

Several months later (yesterday, in fact), I bought another bottle from a local off-license which had exactly the same problem. As the two incidents were completely isolated w.r.t. suppliers, etc., I inferred that the problem must be at the bottling plant.

Incidentally, I fixed it using my lever crown-capper, so it's not a problem with the caps or bottles themselves.

Still, a few tastings over a few months, imo, could still indicate it was an isolated problem on the bottling line for one day, one week, etc. If this were your experience over several years of drinking GD, that would indicate a more widespread problem.

BTW, have you contacted the brewery to let them know of the problem? They may already be aware and have fixed it, but surely they would appreciate the feedback.

Cheers!

[L.H.H.H.Brown]

GD is one of my favorites. Hope it isn't a widespread problem with the bottling cuz that brewery makes quite a few brews that I enjoy. I must admit though that now that you brought it up it's always a GD bottle that has a trippy cap, Hmmm....

[stronk]

I sent a message to their info e-mail address. It will probably have no effect, but at least I tried.

[stronk]

Actually, I have just had a look at the inside of one of their caps and it appears to be one of the rookie caps I use for homebrewing. It doesn't have the extra sealing ring around the inside that normal caps do (the plastic bit is just flat all the way to the ridge at the edge).

That's probably the root of the problem.

[stronk]

Here's the e-mail exchange I had with the person answering info e-mails:


Dear sir,

I presented the problem to one of our engineers and he answered the
following:

Leaks can appear if there is a sudden changement in pressure of the beer. if the cap is put tougher on the bottle, there can be small pieces of glass in the beer, which is dangerous.

When the level of CO2 in the beer is high, you can have little leaks. Also because there is no PVC in the cap, as it used to be. The PVC was better to avoid leaks.

I hope this explanation is satisfying.

Best regards,



Theresa Versele-Deroose
Brouwerij Van Steenberge
Lindenlaan 25
9940 Ertvelde

tel: +32 (9) 344 50 71
fax: +32 (9) 344 54 20
www.vansteenberge.com


-----Oorspronkelijk bericht-----
Van: Koen De Cock
Verzonden: woensdag 12 januari 2005 15:07
Aan: Theresa De Roose
Onderwerp: RE: Gulden Draak cap leaking problem

Theresa,

Wij doen regelmatig metingen naar de buitenomtrek op de flessen met een speciaal toestel. De diameter moet tussen de 28.6 en 28.7 mm zijn. Gaan we de kroonkurk harder aanduwen (tot 28.5 mm) dan kan dit beschadiging van de fles veroorzaken (en dus ook kleine stukjes glas in het bier brengen.

Als het koolzuurgehalte van het bier vrij hoog ligt in combinatie met een iets hogere temperatuur kan het zijn dat de kroonkurk een klein beetje gas lost. De binnencoating in de kroonkurk is PVC-vrij (in tegenstelling tot vroeger)en sluit iets minder goed af wat zeer kleine lekkages kan vertonen bij plotse drukverandering (vb door het schudden van de fles).

Met vriendelijke groeten,

Koen

-----Oorspronkelijk bericht-----
Van: Theresa De Roose
Verzonden: dinsdag 11 januari 2005 9:00
Aan: Koen De Cock
Onderwerp: FW: Gulden Draak cap leaking problem

Koen,

Kan je hier een verklaring voor geven? Je mag antwoord naar mij sturen, dan antwoord ik hem wel.

Met vriendelijke groeten,



Theresa Versele-Deroose
Brouwerij Van Steenberge
Lindenlaan 25
9940 Ertvelde

tel: +32 (9) 344 50 71
fax: +32 (9) 344 54 20
www.vansteenberge.com


-----Oorspronkelijk bericht-----
Van: George Hamer [mailto:george.hamer@shamrockpartners.co.uk]
Verzonden: zondag 9 januari 2005 2:31
Aan: Theresa De Roose
Onderwerp: Gulden Draak cap leaking problem

Dear Sir/Madam,

I apologise for this e-mail being in English, but my French is atrocious and my Dutch is non-existent! I have noticed a problem on two occasions (separated by at least 5 months) with 330cl bottles of Gulden Draak. One, which I bought in Barcelona, had a cap which leaked slightly. This wasn't a problem and I thought it must have been my fault. However, I bought a bottle two days ago from a London shop which had exactly the same problem. I don't mind much myself, but I thought you might appreciate the feedback in case you want to have a look for a problem in your bottling line.

I think I have another bottle which I bought alongside the second one, so I can tell you the batch number if you like (and if there is one).

Yours faithfully,

George Hamer

PS: The problem is not with the bottles or the caps themselves, as it was fixed when I used my own capping machine to tighten the cap.

[Xaos]

Originally posted by stronk

-----Oorspronkelijk bericht-----
Van: Koen De Cock
Verzonden: woensdag 12 januari 2005 15:07
Aan: Theresa De Roose
Onderwerp: RE: Gulden Draak cap leaking problem

Theresa,

Wij doen regelmatig metingen naar de buitenomtrek op de flessen met een speciaal toestel. De diameter moet tussen de 28.6 en 28.7 mm zijn. Gaan we de kroonkurk harder aanduwen (tot 28.5 mm) dan kan dit beschadiging van de fles veroorzaken (en dus ook kleine stukjes glas in het bier brengen.

Als het koolzuurgehalte van het bier vrij hoog ligt in combinatie met een iets hogere temperatuur kan het zijn dat de kroonkurk een klein beetje gas lost. De binnencoating in de kroonkurk is PVC-vrij (in tegenstelling tot vroeger)en sluit iets minder goed af wat zeer kleine lekkages kan vertonen bij plotse drukverandering (vb door het schudden van de fles).

Met vriendelijke groeten,

Koen
TRANSLATION:

Theresa, we often make measurements of the outer contour of the bottles using a special device. The diameter should be between 28.6 and 28.7 mm. If we push the cap harder on the bottle (to 28.5 mm) than this can cause damage to the bottle (and tiny pieces of glass inside the beer).
If the amount of carbondioxide of the beer is high, combined what a somewhat higher temperature, the cap can release some gas. The inner-coating of the cap is PVC-free (contrary to the past) and seals not as good, which can cause small leakages at sudden changes in pressure (EG shaking the bottle).

Yours sincerely,

Koen



I knew my Dutch could come in handy someday!

Apparently they used PVC inside the caps but abandoned it... Perhaps environmental legislation (purely speculation)

PS I assume you brought the GD from Europe in an airplane, so this explains at least the change in pressure (outside the bottle) and possible temperature (if you took it in your suitcase in the cargo area)

[chazwicke]

It is great that they took the time to look into the problem and respond. I appreciate when a business takes time to respond and answer questions. It shows that they care about what they do. Thanks for posting this.

[stronk]

PS I assume you brought the GD from Europe in an airplane
Nope, in a train. It wasn't heated much, so it must have been the shaking. Still, I think they should fasten the caps tighter or get better liners. Nice beer, though.

[Xaos]

Originally posted by stronk
Nope, in a train. It wasn't heated much, so it must have been the shaking. Still, I think they should fasten the caps tighter or get better liners. Nice beer, though.

Ah, I didn't see you were from London, because I was kind of puzzled how you can take a train to the US ;)