American Porters and Stouts

[chazwicke]

Is it just me or have more of you had the experience that most American Porters and Stouts are just way over done? Of course there are notable exceptions, but it has been my continuing observation That most are either overly sweet or too burnt tasting. They lack the finesse of their European cousins. Again, there are some exceptions such as Legend porter from Richmond, Virginia. But is there any agreement that as a rule, American stouts and porters don't quite live up to the cleaner, subtler, British and Irish versions?

[paul84043]

Unfortunately, I have no real basis for comparison. I have made a porter of my own, but it was an "Ultimate Porter" and has so far turned out to be just too much for my tastes, I'm hoping that it will age and smooth away in time.
I have tried a porter from a local Micro and it does have a very strong "roasted" flavor, but I find that when I'm in the mood for it, it's fantastic.

[S.F.B.]

I don't know if I call it over done. I do agree that most, not all American porters lack a certain something that the cousins from over there have. One of the exceptions I have found is Anchor porter.

[batkins]

Another you might try, if you have not already, is Summit Great Northern Porter. Has a somewhat smokey flavor, but not overbearing. Nice and smooth, not too strong, but by no means a thin,weak beer. I'm sure davesarman would agree with me there.

[Bman]

Perhaps our stouts and porters are two distinct American Styles?

I do have an issue with stouts that are too sweet-unless they are "Sweet" stouts.

[chazwicke]

I think you may be right Bman. American Porters and Stouts are kinda like our IPA's, big beers with overwhelming flavers. So they probably are in a class/catagory different from European beers. I like the flavors in the American dark beers, just not so brashly up front. I like a softer, smoother, cleaner flavor. I don't object to the sweetnes or burnt flavor at all, I just want it to be a little more subtle. Lord knows I love the Rauch beer Schlenkerla. Anyway, I agree that American Darks should be defined differently than their Euro cousins.

[Bman]

I agree Chazwicke-have you had any of the Stouts from Bell's in Kalamazoo, MI? They get upwards of 10 stouts going in the winter

[chazwicke]

I've had several Bells beers and all were excellent. It has been a number of years But the Brickskeller used to get some of them in. A Cherry Stout. Do they still make it? I have to admit, I generally shy away from Micro stouts and porters these days. I just rarely find one I enjoy. Now European stouts, thats a different story! My favorite style is IPA but again a lot of it depends on mood, weather and time of year.

[Bman]

They still do make the Cherry Stout-I take the opposite view I stay away from Imports-except those for Canada-with me I worry about how fresh the beer will be-given how long it takes to get here.

[fretlessman71]

My all-time favorite beer was always Sierra Nevada Porter, but I've seen a few reviews recently that were less than glowing. Had a few recently and didn't notice anything wrong or different about it - it was the same black gold I fell in love with 15 years ago. Are you familiar with its flavors, and how do they fit into your "American vs. Euro porter" contention? Just curious...

I have noticed, though, that a lot of micro porters (especially those on draft) are a lot smokier than I care for. They taste just fine if that's what you like, but I miss the velvety smooth SNP, and I guess that's what I'm TRYING to taste. Drat...

[chazwicke]

Ah yes! Velvety smooth. That is what I like too. A very good description! I have had the SN porter but not recently. I will check one out soon. They make good beer. I like most other American micro styles too. I am just a little bit down on the porters and stouts.

[bhoshour]

While I may be inclined to agree with SOME level of distinction between Euro Porters and Stouts versus our own, I do not think the distinction is that great. European Porters and Stouts tend to be a bit smoother and more mild tasting than their American cousins in my opinion, but some of our more notable brews posess a unique "punch" which, depending on your tastes, can lead you in one direction or another. For example, Brooklyn Brwery's Double Chocolate Stout, Rogue's Mocha Porter/Skakespeare Stout, Anchor's Porter/Stout are all very high quality beers in my opinion. I enjoy Samuel Smith's, London's, Mackesons, and many other European greats. I would certainly not say that our products are inferior. One beer should never taste like another and I think it fitting that the two countries have a difference in style. Depending on my mood, I just select the best of both worlds. Cheers, mate.

[chazwicke]

Very well put! I am aware of exceptions and freely acknowlege that there are fine American stouts and porters. It just seems to me that most of the ones I have tasted in brewpubs are just not that good. I guess I like that milder flavor. Although stouts are an easier style to make It seems like most brewers either load up on the Chocolate or Black Patent malts and it creates a big flavor but no real finesse. You get a big burnt or toasted flavor. I think they need to be fine tuned a bit. Smoothed out. I like the milder flavors. And "velvety does not seem to be an adjective I would use to describe the standard brewpub Stout or porter.

[bhoshour]

I agree...that velvety smoothness that many have come to expect from the great European Stout has yet to be integrated into many of our own stouts. I am a coffe connosuer as well so perhaps I am forgiving when that smoothness is absent. I almost prefer that burnt roasted flavor that I do in a good Sumatra Mandheling. If we all liked the same stuff, there would be no damn variety. Smooth or harsh, at least we're wise enough to know the differencer and appreciate a fine stout. Glasses up!

[chazwicke]

I love coffee too. From Kona to Jamaican Blue Mountain to Kenyan. I think the secret to good coffee is adding HEAVY whipping cream. I drank it black all those years and several years ago went on the Adkins diet and tried it with the heavy whipping cream and now I can drink it no other way. And I do like the coffee flavor in some stouts too.

[drunk_monkey]

Id have to say ive never tried this beer..

[Theakston]

you might just prefer it to Moosehead.

[Bryant]

Originally posted by chazwicke
Is it just me or have more of you had the experience that most American Porters and Stouts are just way over done? Of course there are notable exceptions, but it has been my continuing observation That most are either overly sweet or too burnt tasting. They lack the finesse of their European cousins. Again, there are some exceptions such as Legend porter from Richmond, Virginia. But is there any agreement that as a rule, American stouts and porters don't quite live up to the cleaner, subtler, British and Irish versions?

I posted in the general section my favorite porter which is Sweetwater Exodus Porter. Unfortunately, it is only available in Atlanta Ga. but according to your posts on this thread, it is right up your alley. To me, it is a cut above every other porter I have tried, including the Euro ones (though my porter list isn't extremely long due to lack of availability in my area.)

2002 Gold Medal - World Beer Cup
2002 Gold Medal - Great American Beer Festival
Silver Medal winner at the 2002 World Beer Cup
Silver Medal winner at the 2000 Great American Beer Festival -- Brown Porter

Bryant

[chazwicke]

I would like to try this porter.

[Theakston]

I tried the dominion winter brew last night. It claims to be a Polish porter, (whatever that is) although it is fermented with a lager yeast.

Whatever it is, it is very tasty, rich and malty without the astringency of a lot of patent malts, so definitely not in stoutland like a lot of US porters tend towards.

If you can get it, it's worth a try (and ChazwickE you definitely can).

[chazwicke]

You bet Theakston! Thanks for the recommendation. I'll check it out.

[threecb]

The Gust n Gale Porter at Pizzeria Uno in Edison, NJ is an awesome example of the style. It's subtle dark chocolate and coffee notes keep it smooth and drinkable. It's not too sweet, and doesn't have the overly-roasted tone of much of the American versions of this style.

Nice with dessert or on its own!

[steveh]

Originally posted by Theakston
I tried the dominion winter brew last night. It claims to be a Polish porter, (whatever that is) although it is fermented with a lager yeast.

Probably the same as a Baltic Porter, a beer common to Eastern Europe (Okocim makes one). Theories say Porter is what the Baltic states used to call Stout (Imperial Stouts making the rounds). When the locals started making their own, probably due to wars that kept English stouts out of E. Europe, they developed into the new ways of brewing with the discovery of lager yeasts.

S.