My first partial mash

[paul84043]

I did my first partial mash last night....
It kind of sucked, I wish I had waited until I had more "real" equipment for it.
I did a St Pats kit, an IPA. I followed their basic directions, but it's not as simple as they make it sound.
If I were to do it again, I would change a few things. I would pre-boil the water to remove chlorine, and then let it drop to 180F, then I would add the grain. This should get you to the roughly 158F that you need to mash.
They tell you to add it together, then bring the temp up....it's nearly impossible without boiling the water that's trapped on the bottom. And you have to stir it as well, I don't think you're supposed to stir it at all.
Then, when sparging, it helps to have a pot of pre boiled water sitting ready at about 180F (I had that much...) but I had to rotate through several different large bowls and pans as I collected the drippings, since I don't have a setup with a false bottom and a drain valve....it all starts making sense now...

It smelled really good, like a bowl of grape nuts, but it was messy, sticky, took a long time, and I was very frustrated with my lack of preparedness and control over the process. I hope I didn't ruin my IPA.

It foamed like hell when I cooked it and my F.G. came out at 1.070, so I don't think I screwed up too bad.
Strangely enough, the Extract kit from St Pats has a O.G. of 1.062....why would mine be so much higher than that?

I'm buying the two cooler setup to do mashing the next chance I get.

[tomnt1]

I wanna do what the big boys do......but....mashing or even partial mashing sounds very time consuming, is it? Let us know how the end product turns out.

I read the community beer thread and noticed you were going to try Austin Homebrew. I have used Homebrew Headquarters Inc. in Richardson Texas (Dallas) and found them couteous and helpful. 1-800-966-4144...Andy or Kelley are the guys.

[paul84043]

Thanks for the link, it's always good to have a good source.

As for the time involved in mashing, it took me about an hour and a half last night, but I would imagine that typically it would be a little less than that.
I have been reading tons with what I know now and I am going to purchase the two cooler setup that B3 sells. That seems the easiest and best way to go.
After you do it once, things start to fall into place. Nxet time will be much better.

They say that there are certain kits that you cannot do without mashing, like an oatmeal stout for one. Some say that you can't make a "real" stout at all without mashing.

I don't see myself mashing every recipe, or even going full grain, but I will definitely continue to pursue it. I really want to do an oatmeal stout.

[YamahaXS]

i saw 5 gal coolers at walmart for 8-9 bucks...

[b3s]

i feel your pain. my first partial mash went very much like that. the end result, however, was fantastic (the stout that is in bottles was good enough to drink at bottling time). but it was annoying filling my with grains and pouring hot water over them until they were done...then repeating over and over and over. three showers later and the smell of sweet barley was finally gone.

my next batch i was prepared :) i took my old fermenting bucked, drilled 1/8" holes in a radix around the center. this fits in my bottling bucket. then i created an insulating sleeve from water heater insulation and bought a phil's sparge arm.

works great and since i had everything but the sparge arm already, it was in essence "free"...and now no more partial mashes, either...my most recent batch is an all-grain honey wheat and i have the grains for a blaise pale waiting for the weekend.

[paul84043]

I have been thinking about that very same "two bucket" setup as a first cut at high(er) tech partial mashing until I can finance a better system. It seems like it should work and buckets are cheap. It sounds like it works out just fine for you...what do you use as a valve? Doesn't the heat damage the plastic valve mechanisms?

[b3s]

i use the plastic valve of my bottling bucket. the heat does not damage the food grade plastic at all...same would apply to the cooler MLT.

the setup is pretty much the same as papazian's zap-tap MLT, but instead of adding water to maintain temp i just insulated with 2" water heater insulation. i use it for my all-grain brewing and am getting about 70% mash efficiency, but i only rely on 65% when figuring out my recipes. every 15 minutes i drain off the excess water that forms in the gap between the buckets, pour over the top of my mash, and stir...in the end i only get about 1/2 gallon of excess liquid (grains soak up the rest) and my mashes typically finish between 60 to 90 minutes so far.

the upside to this approach is that i can hold significantly more grain than the cooler setup. the downside is that some grains get stuck in the holes in the 2nd bucket (notably wheat, as i found out on sunday).

and since i don't have one of those fancy hot liquor pots with a valve on it for sparging, i use my auto-siphon to power the sparge arm...once again, no problems on the heat so far.

[paul84043]

Couldn't you just setup another bucket or cooler full of hot water to power your sparge arm? That's kind of what I was envisioning.

How much water do you start with? Since you have to fill the false bottom as well as cover the grain, and do you continually add hot water to keep things warm?
I thought that when mashing, you wanted to just let things sit and steep for 40 minutes or so before beginning the lautering.
I am also assuming that lautering is the process of cycling the wort through the grain bed to filter and clarify it?
Then you sparge after your initial runnings are clear?

Also, when making your false bottom bucket, if you were doing it again, would you drill the holes smaller to keep the wheat from getting stuck?
What about cutting out the bottom and gluing on some kind of pre manufactured screen in place of it??

I'm trying....it's slow and painful, but I think it's working...

[b3s]

Couldn't you just setup another bucket or cooler full of hot water to power your sparge arm? That's kind of what I was envisioning.


i could, but since i live in an apartment, storage space is a premium...i just run the sparge from one of my brew pots.


How much water do you start with? Since you have to fill the false bottom as well as cover the grain, and do you continually add hot water to keep things warm?


one quart per pound of grain heated to 158F. with insulation, the temp drops about 3 degrees in 90 minutes. i don't cover the grain -- mashing is about the grains soaking up the water to convert to sugar -- basically porridge consistency.


I thought that when mashing, you wanted to just let things sit and steep for 40 minutes or so before beginning the lautering.


i let things sit for 60 to 90 minutes...although, as i said, i send the fallout water back through every 15 minutes and give a good stir.


Also, when making your false bottom bucket, if you were doing it again, would you drill the holes smaller to keep the wheat from getting stuck?


not sure if there is a small enough :) i may add more holes, though, if my sparges continue getting stuck like that. so far it is only the wheat beer that has.


What about cutting out the bottom and gluing on some kind of pre manufactured screen in place of it??


i had considered that, but my concern was how much weight it could hold. since a bottom with holes is still structural to the bucket i determined that 20 pounds of wet-weight grains would hold.

the other option i considered was tapping a hole for a drain on the bucket and attaching one of those screen-tubes on the inside (in lieu of the zap-tap)...but that meant spending more money and i'm pretty cheap on that front.

the third option i considered was phil's phalse bottom. i could then put a tap on my ex-fermenting bucket, use the phalse bottom in that bucket, and use my bottling bucket as the hot liquor tank for running the sparge. see previous paragraph about me being a cheap *******.

[paul84043]

Thanks for all the detail, I'm relieved to hear that I'm actually beginning to "get it..."

I think I'll do the exact same thing that you did. Maybe some tiny mods for the bottom to try to avoid the wheat clogging the holes. I like wheat beers. In fact I'm enjoying a very refreshing Hefe as I type. I'll do a bucket or cooler to feed the sparge arm since I live in a house and space is not an issue.

I absolutely cannot wait for my raspberry wheat to be done, it's going to be one of the best I have made yet, I can tell that just from the sample at transfer. That combined with the fact that the O.G. was around 1.062 or so...it's going to be raspberry freaking heaven.

What kind of beers do you find that you preferr? I have yet to really decide, we like everything I have made so far and I can't pick a favorite yet...In fact if anything it's only getting better.

[shughes600]

Originally posted by b3s
i could, but since i live in an apartment, storage space is a premium...i just run the sparge from one of my brew pots.


Try placing your hot liquor bucket on top of the refridgerator. It works wonders.

[Fast_Eddy]

My first partial was a real PITA....I can totally empathize. My kitchen was a total disaster.

Did ANYBODY have a good first experience with grain?

[paul84043]

Well, It's going on full day two and my IPA still has not started to ferment....I was so busy worrying about cooking the beer, I didn't even think about doing a starter, I used the liquid Wyeast and started it a few hours before. The packet never swelled fully, but I'm sure it swelled some....it sure looks like a bum batch of yeast. This kind of sucks....
When I agitate the wort I get some bubbling through the arilock, I have been assuming that it's got to be related to some activity going on inside the carboy??

[Fast_Eddy]

If it were me, I'd buy another smack pack...let it "puff" up and pitch again or even better, step it up a little then pitch.

Has the specific gravity changed?

[paul84043]

I plan on buying some White Labs yeast this afternoon, so far that has never let me down..

[toneyc]

Originally posted by Fast_Eddy
My first partial was a real PITA....I can totally empathize. My kitchen was a total disaster.

Did ANYBODY have a good first experience with grain?

I've done several Partial Mash kits from St. Pat's following (loosely) their instructions and have never had a problem with it. I let the grains steep in the hot water for 45 minutes and then strained them them through a large kitchen collander/strainer and ran 2 more gallons of hot tap water over them and proceeded as usual with the boil. Am I missing something?

:) Toney.

[Fast_Eddy]

Your first grain brew went well? Good for you :D

To clarify, I only brew all grain now but I still remember how unprepared I was for that first partial mash. Dripping grain on floor, no good way to sparge, not really understanding about the maintaining the mash temp...

With reference to St Pats, I brewed their Budvar 2000(using the undermodified moravian) a little over a month ago. Used a double decoction method, it took a loooonnnngggg time. It's still lagering at around 35 F. Should be ready for sampling by end of this month.

[b3s]

Originally posted by shughes600
Try placing your hot liquor bucket on top of the refridgerator. It works wonders.

i start on the counter and then move to the refrigerator with the hot liquor tank...mainly because i have this vision of dumping 5 gallons of 170F water all over myself :eek:

[paul84043]

Toney,
The problem I had was once I turned my stove on, even on low heat, the water sitting on the bottom with all that grain begins to boil almost instantly...how do you regulate the temp?
Do you pre heat your water or do you heat up the mixture on the stove? Do you use a false bottom?
St Pats inctructions don't even mention recirculating the wort until it's been filtered by the grain bed, unless I just completely missed that part...
Do you just pour the hot water through the grain and catch it in your boil pot? What if you end up with too much water? I came really...really close to being quite a bit over the 5 gallon mark.

My next partial will be MUCH better with the experience that I had with this batch.

On another note....
I went to my brew shop and purchased more yeast...I guess the beer gods just wanted another 4 bucks from me, when I got home, my IPA was bubbling like mad....it's now getting close to the point that I will want to put on my brand new, fully integrated, super huge blowoff tube that I purchased today at Tweeks recommendation....

nearly 40 hours is one hell of a lag time....I hope it's okay, I'm glad I left it alone this whole time.

[danno]

i do the "oven at lowest setting" for my partial mashes. works great, and you don't have that blast of direct heat at the bottom of your mash from a stovetop.... the volume is big enough that I don't get more than a couple of degree rise over the course of time in the oven...

[paul84043]

You do it IN the oven? That's a really good idea....

[toneyc]

Yes, I preheated the water, then added the grains, covered the pot and turned off the heat. I don't use a false bottom and I don't recirculate. I just slowly poured the water through the grains into the brewpot. I only used 2.5 gallons of water. Maybe not perfect, but I don't worry that much about it. The beer was great!

:) Toney.

[Fast_Eddy]

Paul there are equations to (roughly) calculate the amount of temp drop in a volume of water(in this case the strike water) when grain is added.

The estimate version that appears in Dave Miller's "Homebrewing Guide" is to make the strike water 11 degrees hotter than the desired mash temp when using 1 gallon of water for every three pounds of grain(1.33 quarts per pound).

Papazian says a 16-18 degree drop and to use 1 quart per pound of grain.

The more complicated equation looks like this(lifted from St Pats site):

TW=[TD(2.08xM + 0.4) - 0.4xTG]/(2.08xM)
TW is the strike water temperature in F
TD is the dough-in temperature in F
TG is the grist temperature in F
M is the water/grist ratio in quarts/lb.


I use an 11-15 degree rule and then short burst to raise heat if necessary.

[paul84043]

Thanks guys...I'm not going to give up...

My IPA took off like a bat out of hell yesterday, I rigged up the blowoff last night and the carboy is completely full and things are still bubbling like mad...

Tweeks 1' blowoff tube suggestion is worth its weight in gold!! This thing is freaking awesome...no more worries about the tube clogging and making a mess here!

I made a Kolsch last night, used white labs yeast, this morning when I got up, it's already going for it....less than 6 hours lag time...

White labs rules...

[S.F.B.]

I use the "mash in the oven" method,also. I heat my mash water on my propane burner to about 160 degrees then turn off the heat. Add grains and stabilize in the 150-155 degree range. Into a preheated oven and relax for about 45 minutes to an hour.

[paul84043]

My First Partial mash, and IPA Update....

I transferred my IPA last night, it has sat in the primary for 10 days now and the kreusen had been down for several days at least.

The aroma is great, alot hoppier than I expected it to be, the color is lighter than an amber ale, like it should be..
I would like the flavor to be hoppier than it is, so I dry hopped with 1 oz. of Columbia (I think...) sounds like I put something other than hops in it doesn't it?
It was originally made with 3oz. Perle and 1 oz. of Cascade, the guy at the brew shop recommended the Columbia hops because he is partial to them. Not really knowing anything about them myself, I followed his recommendation.
Based on the aroma of the hops when I opened the bag, I won't be disappointed at all, the were very sweet and floral smelling, I really liked them.
I just dropped them into the fermenter....no ceremony, no blanching...I hope everything stays infection free..

I'm watching it now for a sedondary fermentation to kick up, I'd hate to make a big old mess in the basement and lose some of this beer. I think it's going to be really good!

The gravity at transfer was 1.016 vs a 1.070 O.G. so things are definitely moving along...
Another couple of weeks and I'll be bottling or kegging...still trying to decide.

[Tom C]

I started all grain brewing this winter after receiveing a converted keg for an xmas gift. I bought a false bottom to place in the bottom and use this keg to mash. In terms of sparging I bring water to temp in 2 30 qt kettles and pour into the mash collecting the wort in a borrowed converted keg that is used for boiling.

My first few partial mashes and all grains were all right with the use of plastic buckets as a lauter tun, etc but ran into stuck run off's at times which were no fun. I have collected equipment on an as needed basis one at a time. Eventually I would like to have 3 converted kegs and then create a brewing system that uses pumps and piping to move water/wort around. But for now I will do things old school.


In terms of how much time it takes to brew all grain. I wake up at 5:30 and strike my water. By 6 I am mashing, 7:30ish begining my sparge, 8:15ish begining my boil, 9:30-10ish cooling wort, 10-10:30ish pithcing yeast. By 3 the beer is bubbling away in the carboy's. Of course that is an ideal nothing go wrong or have to run out to get type of day. I am usually done no later than 1 p.m. though from start to finish with all things cleaned and put away.

Tom C