Hops and their individuality

[grainbrew]

Greetings,

Being fairly new to brewing, and very new to all grain, I am having a hard time discerning the different flavours and aromas of different hops.

Take aroma for example; Do EK Goldings smell differently than say Fuggles? Or do I need to span a bit further to notice a difference, say EK Goldings and Cascade?

My question is; should I be able to noticeably tell the difference between hop varieties.

Thanks,

J

[Stodbrew]

Yes, there are differences between all hops, aromawise. Sometimes, they are very subtle, other times it is blatantly obvious. There are even differences between varieties that are grown in Europe and those grown in the US. For example, Saaz.


As you continue to brew, you will begin to be able to tell the difference between varieties. A good way to do this, is brew, say, a pale ale with all cascade hops. Then brew a pale with all centennial or amarillo, simcoe, etc. Then taste them side by side.

[grainbrew]

Thank you,

The reason I asked is because the other day, I tried a Unibroue (Quebec Canada) called "La Fin du Monde". It is a strong ale, and I found the aroma and taste VERY different from the English ales I am use to.

I did not particularily enjoy the aroma, and would want to avoid it in my brews. This being said, my first all grain batch, an English Bitter, has the desired aroma (what I'm use to and love) using E.K. Goldings whole hops for aroma.

Julien

[Mr. Tettnanger]

Yes, there is a difference between the various hop varities. You should get yourself a few good brewing books that give you hop profiles and possible substitutes. As you grow as a brewer, you will find that many hops have the same "basic" properties and then you will be able to cut your inventory of hops and find a few good workhorse hops to cover most of your brewing needs.

[Theakston]

Here's a list that I got from a poster on another site. Although tastes are very subjective and often difficult to describe I think he took a pretty good shot at it:

Amarillo – Mandarin orange

Brewers Gold - Spicy lemons

Cascade – Grapefruit juice

Centennial – Pine and grapefruit pith

Chinook – Coarse spruce resin

Columbus – Weedy coniferous and grapefruit

Fuggles – Spiced wood

Hallertau – Orange blossom flowers

Northern Brewer – Evergreen and mint

Nugget – Honeyed pine resin

Saaz – Herbal spice

Santiam – Dead grass

Simcoe – Pine, heavy pine

Sterling – Mango marmalade

Tettnang – Lime peels

Willamette – Dried hay, grassy

Spalt – Apple blossom flowers

Styrian Goldings – Rose floral

Kent Goldings – Peppery wooden spice

Target – Citrusy wooden spice

[Grog]

If you ever get a chance to get it, Homebrewing Vol. 1 by Al Korzonas has an appendix that has everything you could want to know about different hops' flavors and aromas. If you want me to run some copies off and mail 'em to you, I would be happy to do it.

-G-

[grainbrew]

Grog,

Is this a series that you would recommend? I'm looking for some new brewing books. I've reade the papazian books and want to know more, or hear about it in a different way.

I'm getting Designing Great Beers for Christmas. I can't wait.

J

[Grog]

It is only a single book at the moment, but it has some very cool stuff you probably will not find anywhere else (at least not presented in the way this book presents it.) It is mostly extract oriented, but most of the topics are universal.

I have a decent sized brewing library, but I have four books I use regularly, the one I mentioned, the book you are getting for a X-mas present (great reference), Palmer's How to Brew, and The Brewer's Companion by Mosher. I use them all for different reasons, but if someone were to ask these are the one's I would say to get if you can.

-G-

[danno]

Originally posted by Grog
I have a decent sized brewing library, but I have four books I use regularly, the one I mentioned, the book you are getting for a X-mas present (great reference), Palmer's How to Brew, and The Brewer's Companion by Mosher. I use them all for different reasons, but if someone were to ask these are the one's I would say to get if you can.

-G- I'd add Noonan's "New Brewing Lager Beer" to your list as an essential book for someone wanting to get to the varsity level of brewing...

[Grog]

No objections here, but it's a big boy's book! :)

-G-

J - What was it about the afore mentioned beer that was so objectionable to you?

[grainbrew]

Hard to explain. Just an aroma and flavour I did not enjoy. Very spicy. It was a strong ale, so the alcohol was quite evident.

I've tasted hoppy beers, but they were very different.

J

[Grog]

Julien - I think the hops have very little to do with your negative opinion of La Fin du Monde. I don't know what kind of beer selection your neck-o-the-woods has, but if you get a chance and are feeling adventurous, pick up a bottle of Rhinehardt Wild Flemish Ale and see if you can taste the similarities. I think the flavors you are trying to avoid are more attributable to the yeast and the spices that Unibroue uses.

Your post piqued my interest and I went out and got a bottle this evening to sample.

-G-

[Mr. Tettnanger]

I would reccomend 3 good books. 1.Homebrewing Vol.#1, Al Korzonas 2.Homebrewing Guide, Dave Miller 3. The Brewmasters Bible. All good references. The Brewmasters Bible has the most recipe.
Good luck!

[grainbrew]

Grog,

Thanks. You might be right. However, I remembered something. When I boiled my first all grain, and added the hops, it smelled VERY Strong in my appartment. It was a different smell that the aromas I'm use to and even of my finished beer.

La fin du monde has that aroma (like when I add hops to a boil). You're probably right about the yeast and other ingredients. Also, the 9% alcohol must have something to do with it.

Just to get this straight, I have no doubt that this is a well crafted beer. There are many who enjoy it. Also, I have enjoyed some of their other products.

Mr. Tettnanger,

Thanks,

I'm not very interested in recipes for making beers, but comparing recipes would surely help with my recipes. I use promash and will be getting Designing Great Beers soon, so hopefully I will come up with some decent recipes and improve them over time.

J

[grainbrew]

Grog,

Did you get a chance to try the Unibroue?

J

[Grog]

I actually was drinking it when I posted. Belgian brews are not my favorite, but they have they're place. Very tart and spicy. Okay, but not worth the $$$.

-G-

[grainbrew]

Grog,

Very tart and spicey indeed! Would you say it's attributable to the yeast, hops?

I guess, in a way, I'm looking to avoid that flavor and aroma. Again, I'm sure it's a fine beer for those who enjoy such a brew. I don't.

J

[grainbrew]

I just bottled my pale ale, and had a taste. It will be great!!! I dry hopped using northern brewers and EK Goldings. I can definately identify in the flavour the "evergreen" character of the NB. Subtle pine tree accent. Will be great for the winter.

J

[Grog]

Originally posted by grainbrew


Very tart and spicey indeed! Would you say it's attributable to the yeast, hops?


J

I am no expert, but I would say hops only play a supporting role in this beer, mainly to add background bitterness. I think the flavors most prominent are actually spices and probably some bacteria (dded on purpose, of course). You would really have to work (or be very sloppy) to get the flavors your trying to avoid.

I am glad you are finding so much success early on. I was a mess my first several AG batches.

-G-

[grainbrew]

Grog,

Not too sure how the pale ale will turn out to be honest. I dry hopped using pellets, and I was unable to filter it out properly, so there are tiny floating chunks in the beer still, even after my efforts.

I don't know if this "evergreen" taste comes from the remaining hops, or perhaps a bacterial infection?

I enjoy the process as much as the beer. So a screw up would only be half disapointment. Or so I keep telling myself that.

J

[PCaravan]

I enjoy the process as much as the beer. So a screw up would only be half disapointment. Or so I keep telling myself that.

That is exactly my point of view... Or so I keep telling myselft that.:D

Actually as related to this thread... having not actually tried this beer your talking about, I'd have to agree with some of the other posters that it is probably a yeast/bacteria thing and not a hops thing. I don't like Belgium beers in general with very few exceptions. Our local brew club is very Belgium beer oriented, unfortunatly, and I asked one of the other members what gives Belgium beers that taste I object to (so I could avoid it as you are) and I was told it had to special yeast selection for one part (so avoid the specialty Belgian yeast) and second, Belgium beers accept certain "infections" as a matter of taste and complexity (use good sanitizing practices). I only say this because someone else in this thread refered to this as a Belgium style. If it's not, disregard. In fact if non of this makes sense, disregard... I'm having a hard time typing after having a few homebrews!

[Grog]

Originally posted by grainbrew
Grog,

Not too sure how the pale ale will turn out to be honest. I dry hopped using pellets, and I was unable to filter it out properly, so there are tiny floating chunks in the beer still, even after my efforts.

I don't know if this "evergreen" taste comes from the remaining hops, or perhaps a bacterial infection?

I enjoy the process as much as the beer. So a screw up would only be half disapointment. Or so I keep telling myself that.

J

Probably not bacteria. The one infection I had there was white snot-like stuff floating around and it had an acidic smell.

Is the beer still in the secondary?

-G-