Slow Start?

[c0nsumer]

I was curious... Has anyone here ever had such a slow start with the first fermentation that it takes more than 24 hours to get going?

I made my second batch of beer last night, pitched the yeast at 70°F, and shook the carboy very, very well, added the blow-off tube, and left it to ferment. I'm sort of afraid I've got a bad tube of yeast.

For what it's worth, I pitched a vial of White Labs WLP051 into 5 gallons of 1.071 wort. The yeast was removed from the fridge about 5 hours before pitching, and it had warmed slowly up to room temperature. Currently the carboy is sitting in a central room with a nice stable temperature of right around 68-70°F.

So what am I seeing right now? Nothing. Absolutely nothing. There's just a wee bit of scum left on the top of the tank, as you can see here (http://www.nuxx.net/gallery/californiastylepalekit/DSCN0091).

Needless to say, I'm a bit disappointed right now... I'm going to give it until after work tomorrow, and if there is still no activity, I guess I'll have to back to the local homebrew store and grab another tube of yeast.

I'd like to get a smack pack so that I can guarantee it's freshness, but I'm concerned about adding another vareity of yeast.

-Steve

[BluesHarp]

I've had batches take up to 40 hours or more to get started; usually on high gravity beers...I always make starters now.
I would give it some more time.

[c0nsumer]

Originally posted by BluesHarp
I've had batches take up to 40 hours or more to get started; usually on high gravity beers...I always make starters now.
I would give it some more time.

Oh, okay... I didn't make a starter, and I think that 1.071 might be considered fairly high? It's good to hear that someone else has seen it take this long to get going...

Thanks for letting me know. :)

-Steve

[BluesHarp]

My last beer was an Imperial Stout that ended up at 1.119; I pitched a 1 quart starter and 12 hours later it was foamed up nearly to the top of the carboy...I really recommend making starters, I doubt I'll brew anything without making one in the future.

BTW - make sure you have a blowoff tube...the fermentation can get really aggressive using a starter.

[c0nsumer]

Originally posted by BluesHarp
My last beer was an Imperial Stout that ended up at 1.119; I pitched a 1 quart starter and 12 hours later it was foamed up nearly to the top of the carboy...I really recommend making starters, I doubt I'll brew anything without making one in the future.

BTW - make sure you have a blowoff tube...the fermentation can get really aggressive using a starter.

Yep, I've got one... If you take a look at the gallery that the photo from the original post is in, you can see it... A massive 1" ID line (or so) leading into my bottling / mixing / whatever bucket.

I'm thinking I should make a starter next time, too.

This yeast was labeled as being good through December 16th, and while it was refrigerated both at the LHBS and my house, I'm still paranoid. :)

Well, I guess I'll give it until saturday or so then...

-Steve

[c0nsumer]

Interestingly, a few hours after making the original post, there is a very noticible yeast layer on the bottom of the carboy, and a starting bit of krausen on the top of the wort.

So, I guess it was just a slow start... Next time I'll pitch a starter instead of the vial of pitchable yeast, but at least it's working.

Yay!

-Steve

[toneyc]

Starters rock, man. With a 3-pint starter, I have had lag times as short as two hours. Without a starter, I had one go almost 36 hours before it kicked off.

:)
Toney.

[Fly Creek]

My most recent batch, a pretty heavy IPA, didn't get really going for about 72 hours. I was really bummed and a little worried that I had a dumper in the fermenter. When it started bubbling, it went on for nearly two weeks. This is very unusual for me. It's still in the secondary (almost 5 weeks since brew day), never noticed any unusual smells and it seems to be clearing nicely. I plan on kegging this evening. I should know by Sunday whether this is a keeper or not.

[c0nsumer]

Originally posted by toneyc
Starters rock, man. With a 3-pint starter, I have had lag times as short as two hours. Without a starter, I had one go almost 36 hours before it kicked off.

:)
Toney.

I think that's what I'm going to end up doing next time... Especially since my next beer is apt to be a fairly high gravity all-grain trappist/abbey style...

Actually, I was thinking of harvesting some Chimay yeast, so I'd have to do a starter anyway.

-Steve

[c0nsumer]

Originally posted by Fly Creek
My most recent batch, a pretty heavy IPA, didn't get really going for about 72 hours. I was really bummed and a little worried that I had a dumper in the fermenter. When it started bubbling, it went on for nearly two weeks. This is very unusual for me. It's still in the secondary (almost 5 weeks since brew day), never noticed any unusual smells and it seems to be clearing nicely. I plan on kegging this evening. I should know by Sunday whether this is a keeper or not.

Oh, that's really good to hear, because this is supposedly a "California Style Imperial Pale Ale". It was one of those Brewer's Best grain+lme+dme kits, but I ended up adding another pound of grain to the kit grain and doing a mini-mash. I also replaced the yeast.... So, it's similar, but about 10 points higher gravity than originally spec'd.

We might have the same kind of thing going here...

-Steve

[Nates Bier]

I've never had a ferment start much later than 24 hours. Many of which become violent after 8 to 16 hours. Is this abnormal? I use dry yeast, however am curious about any major differences in taste between dry, tube, and smack?

[BluesHarp]

Originally posted by c0nsumer
Oh, that's really good to hear, because this is supposedly a "California Style Imperial Pale Ale". It was one of those Brewer's Best grain+lme+dme kits, but I ended up adding another pound of grain to the kit grain and doing a mini-mash. I also replaced the yeast.... So, it's similar, but about 10 points higher gravity than originally spec'd.

We might have the same kind of thing going here...

-Steve

Sounds tasty! I assume it is pretty heavily hopped, as well?

My Imperial IPA was about 1.087 OG and ended up around 1.030.
I dry hopped twice in secondary and it is the best beer I ever made.

[danno]

the main differences are between dry and liquid yeast; tube vs. smack pack is really just packaging/marketing (although there's something to be said for a smack pack, if it rises, you know it's good without making a stater...)

benefits of dry yeast: you get a LOT more yeast per package than you do with liquid, so generally a starter isn't necessary, and as you noticed, you generally get fairly quick starts with dry yeast.

The benefits of liquid yeast: much more variety of flavors. with dry, you're pretty much either getting ale or lager. compare that to White Lab's 30-odd ale yeasts, and a dozen lager yeast. (I think Wyeast has even more variety, but their website is down at the moment...) you can culture, reuse, and farm liquid yeast for several generations, you wouldn't want to do that with dry yeast.

basically, if you like your beer with dry yeast, you don't HAVE to switch. it's your beer, brew it how you like...

[Blkandrust]

Originally posted by toneyc
Starters rock, man. With a 3-pint starter, I have had lag times as short as two hours. Without a starter, I had one go almost 36 hours before it kicked off.

:)
Toney.




Hey toney,how much dme do you use for a 3 pint starter?I have been making 1 pint starters using 1/2 cup dme.

[toneyc]

Yep, 1/2 cup DME to 1 pint water, so 1.5 cups for 3 pints.

:)
Toney.

[c0nsumer]

Originally posted by toneyc
Yep, 1/2 cup DME to 1 pint water, so 1.5 cups for 3 pints.

Is this the same ratio you would use if you were harvesting yeast from a bottled beer? Say.... Chimay? ;)

-Steve

[toneyc]

To tell you the truth, I've only tried that once, with Trois Pistoles, and I couldn't get it to work. But the reason for that ratio, from Palmer, is to create a starter that is about 1.040, sort of an average wort gravity. I would guess that it should be fine for culturing yeast from a bottle as well as a tube, anybody know why it shouldn't?

:)
Toney.

[Blkandrust]

Originally posted by toneyc
Yep, 1/2 cup DME to 1 pint water, so 1.5 cups for 3 pints.

:)
Toney.





Cool,thanks.

[c0nsumer]

Originally posted by toneyc
To tell you the truth, I've only tried that once, with Trois Pistoles, and I couldn't get it to work. But the reason for that ratio, from Palmer, is to create a starter that is about 1.040, sort of an average wort gravity. I would guess that it should be fine for culturing yeast from a bottle as well as a tube, anybody know why it shouldn't?

Hehe... Well, maybe I'll try it for my next beer... Worst case I put brewing off for a couple days and run to the store and spend the US$6.25 on more yeast.

-Steve