English IPAs

[PCaravan]

I went to England last week. I've been there several times since that's where my wife is from but this is the first time since I started brewing which has since taught me that I prefer various types of paler ales such as Pale Ale, Bitter, ESB, and IPA to what I consumed over there in the past... Guennis. So this time I decided to try everything I could while I had the chance. At first all I tride were various Fuller's and Young's products (from the bottle since we were there several days before we finally made it to a pub) since I'd known of them before and all were great as expected. All I've been able to find here in Oklahoma regarding those brewers is Fuller's ESB and 1845 and no Youngs so these were new to me. I also wanted to try some IPA but looking at the labels I was a bit perplexed. All of them showed an alcohol content in the range of 3.0 to 3.8% alcohol by VOLUME. Now, I've heard that the modern English version of IPA was not as hoppy as the American version but I'd never hear that they were much weaker than their American counterparts and this is weaker than Okie Bud here... how can these be IPAs? I decided to take home the Green King IPA in a can since I saw no bottled version of IPA. It was a thin, watery, lifeless, sorry exuse for a beer in my opinion. The hopping level was maybe a bit more than a Mild but far less than any bitter I've ever had. When we finally made it to do some Pub hopping I noticed that the only IPAs on tap were Green King again. I decided to give it another chance since I know sometimes a beer is greatly improved on tap but it was the same. A while back, when I told my English wife how much I'd grown to like IPA she told me that people in England think IPA to be a cheap crappy beer... now I know why. How can there be such a big difference yet have the same name?

Now, another warning for those who have not made the trek across the pond. Stay away from the Special Brew. My wife pointed this one out to me not because she thought it was good but more of a novelty as she had not tried it but knew people who drank it regularly. It's a 9% Alcohol by Volume lager. I think it was imported from somewhere on the contenant and I remember thinking it would probably be some kind of really hoppy beer or really malty beer or a little of both. How else are you going to make a beer that strong taste good? Well this beer had neither. Think half Heineken and half rubbing alcohol... YUCK! I didn't pour it down the sink because I've always thought if you bother to open the beer you should finish it but, man, I wish I had some warning! Absolutely the worst beer I've ever had.

All in all, I can't wait to go back just for the beer though. There is such a variety (much of which is outstanding) everywhere you go and there are many, many beers I've yet to try but I thought others should be warned before bothering with their IPAs and for God's sake... STAY AWAY FROM SPECIAL BREW!

An edit here... the Special Brew was from Carlsberg... there may be a better version of this from someone else but I have my doubts.

[steveh]

Originally posted by PCaravan
How can there be such a big difference yet have the same name?

The same way that 2 countries can be separated by the same language - interpretation. IPA has eveolved over time in England, in the U.S. it is fairly new - home-brewers and craft brewers fell in love with the legend of the highly hopped, high alcohol brew that sailed around the horn of Africa, so that's how they developed their recipes.

In the meantime, and far previous to a craft-brew revolution over here; due to better transport and refrigeration, the original reason for making an ordinary Pale Ale into an India Pale Ale was overcome, and that's probably when IPA started to evolve in England. At one time, and up to only a few years ago, Bass even carried the I.P.A. designation on its label.

What we always forget is that IPA has been around for over a century in England, and really only been a U.S. staple for the last 20 years or so.

An edit here... the Special Brew was from Carlsberg... there may be a better version of this from someone else but I have my doubts.

I think I've heard stories of this brew - brewed only to create drunkeness. On the other hand, and contrary to any other experiences I've ever had with Carlsberg products, they do make some good beers - their C47 being very good, unfortunately not readily available over here - look for it next time you travel back to England.

S.

[stronk]

That was an enthusiastic spelling of 'Guinness' you typed, PCaravan!

Greene King IPA is not very good (and it is certainly nothing more than a bitter). If you want a more traditional IPA, go for Worthington White Shield. It only comes in bottles and is one of the few regular BC British beers. I don't much care for it, but it is a lot hoppier than GK IPA.

By the way, as far as I know most ESBs aren't light-coloured beers.

[steveh]

Originally posted by stronk
By the way, as far as I know most ESBs aren't light-coloured beers.

In Caravan's defense - they're more pale than Guinness! :D

S.

When the original Oktoberfest Amber Märzen was introduced in Munich, it was considered a light-colored brew!

[PCaravan]

That was an enthusiastic spelling of 'Guinness' you typed, PCaravan!

Sorry, didn't know how to spell it since I've never paid attention to that kind of thing to much and I don't think I've ever tried to spell it either.

By the way, as far as I know most ESBs aren't light-coloured beers.

Well, I tend to think all of those beers I mentioned as types of Pale Ales since they are much more related than other beer styles. An example of what I mean is ESB (Extra Special Bitter) is, as a matter of style description, a stronger version of bitter. I tend to make this style a lot since I do like it so much and as a result it negatively effected my impression of many bitters I tried in England as they came off a little watered down. I really like the Ruddles County I found in a can though but didn't find it in a pub anywhere.


Thanks steveh for the explanation. I thought as much about the time it's been around over there theft a lot of room for evolution, it just seemed strange that it retains absolutely none of the qualities that made the historical version what it was. It was kind of like Bud calling itself a Pilsner to me (or is it Coors that does that... I can't remember). At least the IPA hasn't taken over there the way Bud and their ilk have done here as there are plenty of other options there.

[ray m]

(Not to half-hijack this thread).....Stronk, are you familiar with a brew called Pride of Romsey IPA? I brewed a clone of it last month, obtaining the recipe from "Beer Captured". It turned out great! I was just curious if there was indeed such an animal there.:)

[stronk]

I haven't heard of that one, but I'll look out for it.

Back on topic: there are many common British ales (and IPAs) which I don't like very much. London Pride, Youngs Bitter and Special, Abbot Ale and Courage Directors are all examples of common ales I don't like too much. I can see why someone used to ESBs would find that sort of thing insipid.
You've got to remember, though, that many of these standard ales are designed for quaffing. They're inexpensive and low in alcohol, so they won't get you drunk too quickly and you can drink them for a long time. Both these characteristics make them social beers and so they go well with the British pub atmosphere.

Just as, if you want good craft beers in the US, you'll have to travel long distances between them: if you want good cask beers in the UK, you'll have to travel all over England, Wales and Scotland to get a real feel for the delicious and diverse beery heritage we have.

[Stodbrew]

Originally posted by ray m
(Not to half-hijack this thread).....Stronk, are you familiar with a brew called Pride of Romsey IPA? I brewed a clone of it last month, obtaining the recipe from "Beer Captured". It turned out great! I was just curious if there was indeed such an animal there.:)



I very much enjoyed the Pride of Romsey IPA on cask when I was in Romsey in late 1999. A friend of mine was working at the Hampshire Brewery on a kind of internship at the time, and I got to go visit him and see the brewery, too. As I recall, all the beers were very good, but the IPA was among the best.

[PCaravan]

Back on topic: there are many common British ales (and IPAs) which I don't like very much. London Pride, Youngs Bitter and Special, Abbot Ale and Courage Directors are all examples of common ales I don't like too much. I can see why someone used to ESBs would find that sort of thing insipid.

Wow, I think we just may like different beers... the Youngs Special (the one I tried said "Special London Ale" and I assume we're talking about the same thing) was one of the best I tried! As far as the bitters being lower in alcohol, I did expect that but I was hoping for a little more flavor than that and many of them had some kind of quality I'm not used to and don't know how to describe well. It was kind of like an old stale taste but not oxidized like old beer usually is. The reason I liked the Ruddles County Bitter is that it had a little more hop aroma and flavor and didn't seem so thin that it was off putting. That's the kind of beer I would use for quaffing in a pub. It was not great but solid and cheap to boot. Unfortunately, I didn't find it in a pub.

My dissapointment with the IPAs is that I was not expecting a "quaffing" beer with an IPA label. I'll know next time though. There were some quaffing bitters that were good and some not so good.

As far as finding a good beer goes, every pub I went to but one had something available that I thought was good. That alone is unusual here. It's not unusual here to walk into a restaraunt/pub/bar here and find a selection like this: Bud, Bud Light, Amber Bock, and George Killians Irish Red... nothing else. All of which are products of the Bud/Miller/Coors companies and of which pretty much taste the same... the latter two with maybe some food coloring??

Next time though, I'll research the pubs I want to visit. I had grand plans of doing just that but we were short on time. We normally go for two weeks but this time I was only there for a week and we spent most of that time running around to see all of my wife's old friends and family.

As far as the Pride of Romsey IPA, I'll look for that next time since it was mentioned here with positive comments. After trying the Green King IPA I didn't want to waste any more money on the "IPA" label.

This is in no way a slam on England, I wish we had pubs on every corner here with a wide variety of beer and England is the home of my favorite... Fuller's ESB, or is it Fuller's 1845, or is it the Young's Special London Ale I tried there? I can't decide:)

By the way, just to let you know how good you have it. I can occasionally find the Fuller's ESB or the 1845 here but it costs about $15 for a six pack of 12oz bottles. A nice treat but not for regular drinking on my budget when most of the imported and craft beers here in Oklahoma will cost from $7 to $10.

[chazwicke]

The Greene King IPA is not their best but I do like the Abbot Ale. We can get pride of Romsey in the states. In fact I am about to open my bottle in honor of this thread. It of course is bottle conditioned and is 5%. IPA as a distinct style had almost died out in England but has been semi revived and much credit for bringing the original style to USA has to go to Garrett Oliver who is an expert on the history of IPA and their authentic original recipies. Credit is also due the American brewmasters who have further developed and tweeked it.

[PCaravan]

Alright, one more post and I think I'm done here.

I decided to go back and look at the BJCP style guidelines(http://www.bjcp.org/styles04/) which is what I use as a guideline when designing my own beers. I discover that they have changed the guidelines (they still have the old ones there). There is only one catagory description for IPA in the old guidlines. This is the one I'm familiar with. Notice that the minimum alcohol level is 5% ABV. Now, I knew there would be a difference when I went to England because I'd heard that these beers were less hoppy but I hadn't heard they were weaker (by the way, I wouldn't mind a weaker alcohol beer that tastes good like Guiness Draught). That's why I wanted to make a post for others visiting the old country for the first time.

Now when you look at the new style guidlines the IPA is divided up into subcatagories. The 5% ABV minimum is kept for the English IPA and all but scolds commercial English brewers for calling lower ABV ales IPA in the comments section... LOL!

A little qualifier here though, I believe these guidelines are mainly used for homebrewers like me and that commercial brewers have another set of guidelines for their competitions but I'm sure they're similar. Also, I'd bet this organization is American... I wouldn't be surprised if England is using something different altogether but, still, I can see how I got duped!

[steveh]

Originally posted by PCaravan
A little qualifier here though, I believe these guidelines are mainly used for homebrewers ...

I use them as reference all the time, when I'm researching a certain style or writing a review on a new beer. They're solid profiles for any beer-lover to follow.

Also, I'd bet this organization is American... I wouldn't be surprised if England is using something different altogether but, still, I can see how I got duped!

It is a U.S. organization, but that doesn't mean they have bias toward American beers, they know the history and heritage of styles around the world, and the profiles reflect that.

If you follow this link (http://www.bjcp.org/origins.html) you'll learn some of their own history. And if you scroll down to about the 8th paragraph, to the list of the first folk to take the exam, you'll see the names of people who are still active in the beer community today - including a couple who got me started on my journey to appreciating good beer.

And don't feel duped, you just didn't do enough homework before your trip - you'll be ready for the next one, and the next one... and the next ale, and the next one...

S.

[chazwicke]

And remember when in the UK ONLY drink beers that are on hand pull if it is at all possible. It is tough to be disappointed doing it that way. The only reason I pay attention to the alcohol over there is to try to stick to some of the lower % beers so I am able to drink more at a session.

[stronk]

Wow, I think we just may like different beers... the Youngs Special (the one I tried said "Special London Ale" and I assume we're talking about the same thing)
The beer I was talking about is called just 'Youngs Special' and is supposed to be their ESB. Special London Ale is a different beer altogether and it is one I like very much.
I had to clear that up.

[noby]

Originally posted by PCaravan
Wow, I think we just may like different beers

Well, wouldn't it be very boring otherwise. I quite enjoyed London Pride, for what it was: an everyday quaffing ale.


noby

[PCaravan]

LOL, yeah it would be boring! I just thought it was one of those kinds of beers that was so good that even if you didn't really like the style, you'd appreciate the beer as being good... if you're one that can appreciate a good beer whether it suites your tastes or not.

I guess I never so the Youngs Special then. And though I did see a shelf tag for the London Pride the store was all out. It had the largest section to itself on the store shelf compared to other bottled beers leading. Both of those facts together made me believe it was a popular beer so I made a note to try it when I saw it but I never did.