Would YOU drink a macro?

[fretlessman71]

The purpose of this poll is to see how many of us are willing to drink macros under normal circumstances, meaning because there's no better beer available at the game, or you're at a friend's house and that's all he's got and you don't want to offend him, or that's all the liquor store near your vacation cabana carries, or maybe you really like a particular macro and will often choose it over something else. Please be honest; no one can tell who's voted for what. BTW... if the only way you'd drink a macro is on a dare, bet, or with a gun to your head... please vote "no". :D

[sallad]

i must say, mr fretless sir, that the way you've phrased this question is not quite fair. i've been following the thread that caused this poll, and the way this is phrased, i think more people will lean your way.

for my own entertainment, no, i'd pass on the macro and go for something with an actual hop and/or malt profile. if i felt like having a beer, and nothing else was around, i have no problem drinking a few B/M/Cs. heck, i won't even pinch my nose while i drink them.

[Budman]

I actually like Bud. (he says ducking)

[newportstorm]

Yup. Been known to polish off a sixer of Stroh's (cans) or High Life (bottles) - sometimes in the same day!:eek: Also been known to partake in a "Dive Bar Pub Crawl" where only beers from macro breweries are consumed.

Then again, there are times that I'll get up and leave an establishment that has a crappy beer list. Depends on my mood. I prefer flavorful, craft beer but am not above swilling, when the occasion presents itself.

Cheers!

[fretlessman71]

Originally posted by sallad
i must say, mr fretless sir, that the way you've phrased this question is not quite fair. i've been following the thread that caused this poll, and the way this is phrased, i think more people will lean your way.

How so? And besides... doesn't look like it in the polls so far! At this point I'm the only Macro abstainer...

[O2 Mash]

Bud, Strohs, and PBR are really not too bad, however, Miller products really offend me for whatever reason.

[sallad]

How so? And besides... doesn't look like it in the polls so far! At this point I'm the only Macro abstainer.

perhaps i'm wrong here.. anyway, far be it from me to offend you.. i know what can happen (http://www.realbeer.com/discussions/showthread.php?s=&threadid=4590) to my posts!! ;)

cheers!

[wortchillergoal]

I will no longer drink macro brew. I just politely say no if that is all that can be offered. The nice thing is that good hosts will have another beverage available to offer. I will drink ice tea, lemonade, or a soda but not a macro.

[toneyc]

I like a Corona in a salted glass with a slice of lime on a sweltering afternoon. And I don't know if you consider Shiner a macro or not, but I probably drink more Shiner than anything else. Then there's the occaisional Guinness. I do try to pick up something special when I can, but that can get expensive.

:)
Toney.

[Fast_Eddy]

Originally posted by toneyc
I like a Corona in a salted glass with a slice of lime on a sweltering afternoon. And I don't know if you consider Shiner a macro or not, but I probably drink more Shiner than anything else. Then there's the occaisional Guinness. I do try to pick up something special when I can, but that can get expensive.

:)
Toney.

Shiner, by volume, is not a macro. I also do not count Guiness as a macro regardless of their distribution.

I choose to not drink any BMC macro - ever. No Corona or Heineken, either.

[MeridianFC]

I can't say that I never have, there are some times where it just can't be helped. I was at a game in a sport stadium that shall not be named with a group of guys, some from overseas, and one of them bought everybody the only thing that was available....Miller, which is my absolute least favorite beer in the world. Still it was bought for me and I would consider it highly impolite to refuse. Granted I only drank about half but that's the way it goes sometimes.

If I'm out and about and only B/M/C is available and I am in the mood for a drink I'll either order liquor or do without. Most often it's do without.

So the answer to your query is I would never drink a macro (as you define it*) for my enjoyment. Maybe to be polite in some very rare circumstances, but I don't enjoy B/M/C.

K.

*I have to say that I would consider Guinness a macro. It's hard to get to much more macro than that. I have no problem swilling the black stuff.

[b3s]

i'll drink sam adams or killian's if that's all that's there...those seem to count based on the "available nationally" thing

[newportstorm]

Originally posted by Fast_Eddy
I also do not count Guiness as a macro regardless of their distribution.

Guinness has production in over 50 countries and churns out over 7 million barrels of stout each year. It's a macro. Just admit it - you'll feel better ;)

Cheers!

[Fast_Eddy]

Originally posted by newportstorm
Guinness has production in over 50 countries and churns out over 7 million barrels of stout each year. It's a macro. Just admit it - you'll feel better ;)

Cheers!

It's really intent that's in question. We all tend to use the derisive form of the word "macro". Is "macro" a widely available beer(by production volume) or is it a widely available bland flavorless barley pop? I choose to interprete it as the latter. I don't put Guiness in that category.

[newportstorm]

Originally posted by Fast_Eddy
It's really intent that's in question. We all tend to use the derisive form of the word "macro". Is "macro" a widely available beer(by production volume) or is it a widely available bland flavorless barley pop? I choose to interprete it as the latter. I don't put Guiness in that category.

Sorry, but any intent is in your own mind. There was no mention of what defines a macro in the poll - fret never specified macro as a BMC product. And technically speaking Guinness, Spaten, and others are all macros as they churn out multiple millions of barrels of brew per year. There really is no arguing that. You want to argue whether Sierra Nevada or Boston Beer Co. are macros (pumping out 500,000 - 1 million+) barrels per year? OK.

Point being, there are tasty macros out there. Macro doesn't have to mean "flavorless barley pop". I can think of several beers that fit that description from small local breweries. And I know many people that feel that Guinness is rather thin, watery and low in flavor and avoid it as they would a light beer.

Taste is personal. Measurable production numbers are fact.

Cheers!

[Fast_Eddy]

Originally posted by newportstorm
Sorry, but any intent is in your own mind. There was no mention of what defines a macro in the poll - fret never specified macro as a BMC product. And technically speaking Guinness, Spaten, and others are all macros as they churn out multiple millions of barrels of brew per year. There really is no arguing that. You want to argue whether Sierra Nevada or Boston Beer Co. are macros (pumping out 500,000 - 1 million+) barrels per year? OK.

Point being, there are tasty macros out there. Macro doesn't have to mean "flavorless barley pop". I can think of several beers that fit that description from small local breweries. And I know many people that feel that Guinness is rather thin, watery and low in flavor and avoid it as they would a light beer.

Taste is personal. Measurable production numbers are fact.

Cheers!

Jeez - calm down newpie - did I hit a nerve?

To your point - Fret never mentioned exactly what he meant by macro - the technical volume or not. TO ME a macro is, in this type of discussion, a poor quality, mass produced beer. If Fret wants to amend his spec to be any brewery producing more than X barrels of beer a year then I'll change my answer.

[danno]

Does Michelob Amber Bock count as a macro? I mean, they advertise in Brew Your Own magazine...

hehehe...

[b3s]

and isn't an awful beer, either.

[Bruno_78]

suggestion to Fret (assuming you're not going to delete my post)

Be more specific in your polls! Avoid the contoversy!

[b3s]

LOL...controversy good, ambiguity bad :D

oh, wait, wrong bush running for prez

i'd agree with chaz, though, because i assumed nationally available beer (with apologies to those in other countries who may not get what is available nationally here), not necessarily just BMC. i guess that left some interpretation available...

[Fast_Eddy]

I guess where I was forced to make an assumption was trying to decide the usefulness of the poll. If it really meant the "number of barrels per year" definition of macro then that (like newportstorm points out) includes Spaten, Paulaner, Pilsner Urquell, Guinness, etc and everyone on this board will drink those beers when available. So I was forced to assume a more meaningful interpretation.

[fretlessman71]

Originally posted by b3s
and Michelob Amber Bock isn't an awful beer, either. Yeah, and a Yugo isn't an awful car if it gets you from point A to point B, either. ;)

[fretlessman71]

Wow.... this is what happens when I leave for the afternoon, huh? The ol' rookie moderator takes the day off and you swillsner swillers start going for the jugular.... Yikes-O-Rama!

I suppose I should have said "macroswill", or "barely soda", or something along those lines... although I defy you to come up with a category title that doesn't open itself to at least one exception (Guinness, or Spaten) in this case. And, in this case, someone will raise the point of the existence of this exception, and hammer on this point until we can feel it being driven through our foreheads (or, in my case, fivehead).

So, maybe I ought to rephrase the question like this: "Would you drink crap beer (and only you can decide what crap beer is in your own mind) if it was the only option available for beer?"

This doesn't work either, because there are some of us here who are true Budweiser fans and would not consider this a "crap beer". There may even be some of us here who like nothing BUT "macroswill" and wouldn't drink a Sierra Nevada Pale Ale if you paid them. So, maybe the entire idea of a poll was a pipedream at best.... oh well.

Could I have phrased it as follows? "Would you drink a macroswill (and YOU know what I'm talking about!) if it were the only option?"

My point here is that no matter how the question is phrased, someone is going to have issue with it and tell me that the poll is baseless. So either I don't get to find out the true answer to my question, or I gotta take another vocabulary class. :rolleyes:

[b3s]

Originally posted by fretlessman71
Yeah, and a Yugo isn't an awful car if it gets you from point A to point B, either. ;)

have you had amber bock? better than sam adams boston lager, that's for sure! now sam adams summer ale? well, that's not a bad beer at all

[fretlessman71]

Yeah, I had Amber Bock. Looks better than it tastes, and a head like dishsoap. Twice, too; once on tap, once from a bottle. Gotta say I like Sam Adams better... oh well; takes all kinds to make a world.

[ZSK]

Fret,

Seems like a simple question to me. And yes, I would drink the macro. Why not? I'm not so picky that I can't slug one or two when enjoying the company of friends. Nobody likes a whiner!

[steveh]

Originally posted by b3s
have you had amber bock? better than sam adams boston lager

You're joking, right? And before you ask, yes - I tried it once when it first came out in order to say I wasn't jumping to any conclusions. Unless you can convince me, beyond the shadow of a doubt, that A-B has altered the recipe from a thin, bland, characterless liquid (and aren't using rice as an adjunct), I'll continue to scoff at the use of the term bock in its title.

S.

[threecb]

While Guinness and Spaten, et al, have production numbers to include them in the "macro" numbers, aren't they actually classified as "imports"?
You usually see the numbers break down as the domestic macros, then imports, then craft beer.

[noby]

Originally posted by ZSK
Fret,

Seems like a simple question to me. And yes, I would drink the macro. Why not? I'm not so picky that I can't slug one or two when enjoying the company of friends. Nobody likes a whiner!

Spot on ZSK!

[newportstorm]

Bear with me for a moment as I rant a little. I'm not picking on Fast_Eddy, but in his original post he states that "Shiner, by volume, is not a macro" but he doesn't consider Guinness a macro regardless of its production/distribution. Sorry, can't have it both ways. A brewery is a macro or it isn't. If BMC were a fraction of the size they are now and still turned out "barley pop" as some call it, would you still call them a macro. I hope not. I'd call them a crappy microbrewery - and there are plenty of them out there that I could list. Smaller does not mean better quality and larger does not mean poorer quality...or flavor.

And while fret's poll could have been clearer, I think it's ambiguity helped spark discussion. Thanks, but I'll pass on the standard "yes/no" polls any day for one where people choose sides and defend their position. Nothing wrong with a little controversy. If everyone simply caves to another's point of view or tries to be the nice guy, the board can get a little stale, no? I'm not looking for a Jerry Springer atmosphere but one where we can agree to disagree vigorously is cool with me.

Not looking to stir up trouble, but if it comes my way, I won't shy from it...

Cheers!

[threecb]

Originally posted by newportstorm
I'm not looking for a Jerry Springer atmosphere...

*throws chair at newportstorm* :D

[Steve16823]

I would drink a bud/miller/coors/labatts product if it were the only beer available, and I'd choose it above drinking soda or lemonade or any other sweetened beverage. I don't often find myself in that situation, because I live in one of the few places in the country where Bud, Miller, or Coors is NOT the number 1 selling beer (or so I've been told).

I've even been known, on a hot day, to drink a Rolling Rock voluntarily. In my defense, I am from Pennsylvania, and the local product always scores points regardless of other factors. (Except, of course, when I lived in St. Louis where the local product WAS Budweiser... )

Also, with regards to "Michelob Amber Bock" -- I think it tastes like caramel-colored Budweiser. In a blind tasting, I bet it'd be tough to tell them apart....

[newportstorm]

Originally posted by threecb
*throws chair at newportstorm* :D

Actually, chair throwing is more "Geraldo Rivera" than "Jerry Springer" ;>)

Cheers!

[Fast_Eddy]

Originally posted by newportstorm
Bear with me for a moment as I rant a little. I'm not picking on Fast_Eddy, but in his original post he states that "Shiner, by volume, is not a macro" but he doesn't consider Guinness a macro regardless of its production/distribution. Sorry, can't have it both ways...

Well - I don't mind being picked on.

Of course I can have it both ways. This place isn't regulated and controlled by the thought police is it? I was making the Shiner distinction simply because of Toney's question - not really in relation to my opinion on the poll.

At any rate I'm glad to see that Fret's intent was more in line with what I have been saying so that I haven't really been that far off base. It's a slippery slope.

[fretlessman71]

That would account for all of the bruises to my frontal lobe... JEEZ LOUISE!

[newportstorm]

Originally posted by Fast_Eddy
Of course I can have it both ways. This place isn't regulated and controlled by the thought police is it? I was making the Shiner distinction simply because of Toney's question - not really in relation to my opinion on the poll.

Nope. No thought police here. Shiner isn't a macro. Guinness is (threecb can call it an import macro ;) ). You responded to Toney's question and I responded to your statement/opinion. That's all.

If I were to state that A-B is a microbrewery or that Alesmith is a macro brewery, I'd expect to be called on it. There are many gray areas in the beer world (style guidelines for one) but production numbers don't seem to be one. I'm not attacking you personally, just your designation of Guinness.

Cheers!

[fretlessman71]

Wow.... fully 2/3 of us so far are willing to drink [insert your own title for mass-produced beer you normally wouldn't drink that tends to use hot babes in its commercials] if there's nothing else available. So I guess I have a little egg on my face about this... unless so many of you just haven't voted yet! Kinda pointless now, I guess...

I was hoping to find out that most of you felt as I do - that BMC-type products are horrible in taste and reprehensible in reputation, and that water straight from the Chattahoochie would taste better. Might even get you a buzz, come to think of it...

Seems like with all of the BMC bashing going on, there's not too many of us that are willing to stick by those original guns... does this mean that many of you consider these products to be "not that bad"?

If the above ISN'T the case, then does it mean that alcohol is more important to some of us than just having something to drink that you enjoy?

Maybe I'm just a prude here, but it's just not worth it to me to have some alcohol for no other reason than to have some alcohol.

When I get back into brewing, I'm going to explore ways to make a SERIOUS mild... maybe 2% or so. An almost negligible amount. I'd like to be able to enjoy a few of these and then drive down to the movies with my wife. The worst part about beer for me is the impairment issue.

And, as we know, I've pontificated many times before about my "lightweightedness," so I'm sure that has something to do with it. I'm not saying that anyone else has to follow these rules that I set up for myself. I know what works for me, as I'm sure you know what works for you.

Maybe I need to post yet another poll: "If there's nothing alcoholic to drink other than beer you'd normally shun, is alcohol so important to you that you'd rather drink that beer than something non-alcoholic?" That might be an interesting outcome...

[Beaver]

I know McDonald's is not good food, but there are times when I eat it anyway. I see BMC as the same thing. I won't actively pursue drinking it, but will drink it if the circumstances are right.

[Fast_Eddy]

Originally posted by newportstorm
Nope. No thought police here. Shiner isn't a macro. Guinness is (threecb can call it an import macro ;) ). You responded to Toney's question and I responded to your statement/opinion. That's all.

If I were to state that A-B is a microbrewery or that Alesmith is a macro brewery, I'd expect to be called on it. There are many gray areas in the beer world (style guidelines for one) but production numbers don't seem to be one. I'm not attacking you personally, just your designation of Guinness.

Cheers!

If you want to beat the point about production to death fine(not what the poll, it turns out, was actually about) - Guinness is a macro when using the term macro to only speak about production volume. Most people on this site use macro with a connated meaning that would exclude Guinness, Spaten, etc.

[Beaver]

I think BMC is the more appropriate term rather than macro.

[Steve16823]

Originally posted by fretlessman71
Seems like with all of the BMC bashing going on, there's not too many of us that are willing to stick by those original guns... does this mean that many of you consider these products to be "not that bad"?

If the above ISN'T the case, then does it mean that alcohol is more important to some of us than just having something to drink that you enjoy?

Maybe I'm just a prude here, but it's just not worth it to me to have some alcohol for no other reason than to have some alcohol.



I'm not generally a 'macro-basher'. I happen to prefer other beers above them, but I don't think macros are "bad" they're just not my preference. They are still a high-quality all-natural beverage, probably better for you than slugging down a sugar laden soda.

For that matter, I'd probably drink a non-alcoholic macro-brewed beer before I'd drink any other non-alchoholic beverage. Flavored seltzer water (unsweetened) is high on my list as well, and is probably my fav non-beer beverage.

[fretlessman71]

Originally posted by Steve16823


For that matter, I'd probably drink a non-alcoholic macro-brewed beer before I'd drink any other non-alchoholic beverage. Flavored seltzer water (unsweetened) is high on my list as well, and is probably my fav non-beer beverage. That's a fair point. If you genuinely enjoy the taste my argument doesn't have a leg to stand on.

Just can't stomach that stuff, though... reminds me of playing in really smelly bars with people charging the stage demanding that we play "Sweet Home Alabama"... (No offense, Bryant... ;) )

[Bruno_78]

Girlfriend and I went for pizza last week. All they had was bud, bud light, killians, amber bock. She drank amber bock, I drank root beer. I don't sacrifice. I'd much rather drink root beer, lemonade, or water before before these other options.

[Steve16823]

Originally posted by fretlessman71
Seems like with all of the BMC bashing going on, there's not too many of us that are willing to stick by those original guns... does this mean that many of you consider these products to be "not that bad"?

If the above ISN'T the case, then does it mean that alcohol is more important to some of us than just having something to drink that you enjoy?

Maybe I'm just a prude here, but it's just not worth it to me to have some alcohol for no other reason than to have some alcohol.



I'm not generally a 'macro-basher'. I happen to prefer other beers above them, but I don't think macros are "bad" they're just not my preference. They are still a high-quality all-natural beverage, probably better for you than slugging down a sugar laden soda. I might even prefer a macro over a sweet microbrewed beer (I simply do not like overly malty sweet beer).

For that matter, I'd probably drink a non-alcoholic macro-brewed beer before I'd drink any other non-alchoholic beverage. Flavored seltzer water (unsweetened) is high on my list as well, and is probably my fav non-beer beverage.

<EDIT>

I'm going to take this one step futher. I think most people who bash BMC do so mostly out of snobbery. They're OFFENDED that masses of people buy the product and enjoy it when they know there are better "beer" out there. But I think comparing a microbrewed IPA to Budweiser makes about as much sense as comparing a Chocolate Stout to Coca-Cola. Sure, the chocolate stout is great, but does that mean we should never drink Coca Cola?

[fretlessman71]

Nope - not me. I truly think stuff like that is awful. Poured out a Henry Weinhard I got in my Mystery Mixer Sixer after 2 sips (the second was because I couldn't believe it was that bad). Just not worth the alcohol to me. And Bud gives me a splitting headache after the 3rd sip - happened twice about a year apart. (Had to remind myself why I hated it so much.) If that makes me a snob, so be it. You can call it BMC, macroswill, or what-have-you... a rose by any other name would taste as bad.

[Steve16823]

Well, you're completely free not to like it. Everyone has something they don't like.

I guess I don't feel the need to "bash" something I don't like.

[Seymour]

Originally posted by Beaver
I know McDonald's is not good food, but there are times when I eat it anyway. I see BMC as the same thing. I won't actively pursue drinking it, but will drink it if the circumstances are right.

Yeah, that about says it. When in Rome, do as the Romans do.

I drink three things: beer, coffeee, and water. I just don't do sodas. And I'll admit it if no one else will: I enjoy the buzz from the alcohol. That's part of the experience for me. So, yes. I suppose if BMC were all there was available, I'd probably still drink 'em. But can I still bash 'em a little,too?:D

[fretlessman71]

Originally posted by Steve16823
Well, you're completely free not to like it. Everyone has something they don't like.

I guess I don't feel the need to "bash" something I don't like. It's just a thorn in my side, I guess... I hear the commercials for these macros bashing the micros, and it wears on me (the worst one is for Coors Light, mocking the people who drink "wine-flavored whole-wheat microbrews" or something like that, just perpetuating the ignorance). Guess I'd just rather have a glass of water.

And you're right - I'm completely free not to like it, and by the same token you're completely free TO like it. I guess I'm just a little surprised (and a little disappointed, too...)

[threecb]

Originally posted by Steve16823
I'm going to take this one step futher. I think most people who bash BMC do so mostly out of snobbery. They're OFFENDED that masses of people buy the product and enjoy it when they know there are better "beer" out there.

I'm not offended at all by it. Drink what you like. I don't like it, so i'm not drinkin' it. After reading through this thread I see that there's a lot of people that don't like/drink soda pop. I like a nice icy-cold Coca Cola (never Pepsi, fret!). Does that mean I should look down in derision at those that don't like it? Or vice-versa.

I just don't like the taste of BMC. So I'm not going to drink it. In most of the situations listed throughout this thread, there's usually at least Yuengling or Sam Adams or some "import macro" available. If not, wine, mixed drink or non-alcoholic for me.

[Steve16823]

Originally posted by threecb
I just don't like the taste of BMC. So I'm not going to drink it. In most of the situations listed throughout this thread, there's usually at least Yuengling or Sam Adams or some "import macro" available. If not, wine, mixed drink or non-alcoholic for me.

Actually, after reading the whole thread and thinking about it: I said i'd drink a BMC if it was the only thing available, but the fact of the matter is that it has literally been YEARS since i've been in that situation. So, it almost becomes a hypothetical situation for me. Heck I'd probably accept a bud/miller/coors on the grounds that I don't even remember what they taste like....

I do still proudly confess on having a couple of Rolling Rocks on occasion every summer. And I have spent an evening or two drinkin' O'Douls in the past 12 months as well.

[fretlessman71]

Maybe the crux of the question I originally had was this: We're all fans of great beer here. Having said that, how willing are we to stand up for our favorite beers that regularly get stomped on by heavily-marketed, poor quality beer companies? Would you refuse a free BMC even if there was nothing else available? Would you refuse a free BMC from your best friend knowing that you were just going to buy something else in a minute or two? Would you refuse it knowing that you were going to have to stand next to him at the football game all night holding a beer you bought instead of the one HE bought for you? Would you walk out of a liquor store empty handed if they didn't have something besides BMC? If you happen to enjoy BMC, the answer is obvious... but if you truly don't like it, will you shrug your shoulders and just "go with the flow" because you don't want to upset anyone? Would you willingly drink a "bad beer"? Since bad is in the eyes of the beholder, the situation and the response will be different for everybody... and on this point, I hereby admit that the idea of a poll was folly at best. I have concluded that no two people will have the same answer on this topic.

[Theakston]

Originally posted by fretlessman71
Would you walk out of a liquor store empty handed if they didn't have something besides BMC?

This should have been the question. It's specific enough not to be interpreted 100 different ways by everyone. Everything else raised too many questions about

a) what"s a macro
b) what are the circumstances

Here you give a fairly unambiguous definition of both.
I'd vote for walking out on this one, although I voted that I would drink a macro (would, have.....just wouldn't buy a BMC under pretty much any circumstances).

[Seymour]

Hear, hear. I've walked out empty-handed...and disgusted, if all there was was BMC (or worse, malt liquor. Bleah). But if someone handed me a free Bud, I'd probably drink it. If I was at a party, and there were coolers of BMC, but also Anchor Porter, or Sierra Nevada Stout, or other reasonably easily available micros, again no brainer. The BMC would be refused.

Hey, Fret--know what I liked about your poll? It really ignited some passions on this issue, and got everybody to talking. I'm not so sure your poll was pure folly.

[fretlessman71]

Maybe not folly... but it was folly to think that I'd come up with a somewhat scientific answer to a question like this. I guess I'm a snob... I just won't drink that stuff under anything less than the direst of circumstances (gunpoint, choking, etc.). And I know there are a few others like me here. I really hope this doesn't PO anyone here on the board who's a macro fan, or even someone who doesn't mind them. Just can't do 'em. Give me a water or a Coke and I'll be just fine.

[Steve16823]

Originally posted by fretlessman71
I guess I'm a snob... I just won't drink that stuff under anything less than the direst of circumstances (gunpoint, choking, etc.). And I know there are a few others like me here. I really hope this doesn't PO anyone here on the board who's a macro fan, or even someone who doesn't mind them. Just can't do 'em. Give me a water or a Coke and I'll be just fine.


There's a difference between genuinely NOT liking something and being a snob. For example, I would think a snob would't care if he's pissing off anyone who actually may enjoy/tolerate BMC or even Pepsi -- In fact he/she might enjoy it.

Regardless of what I said about most people who "bash" BMC, I don't think you're a snob. Or at least not any more than I am. :D And being a snob is relative, like George Carlin used to say: Anyone who drives slower than me is an IDIOT, and anyone who drives faster than me is a MANIAC.

And, for the record, I think I would walk out of a liquor store if all they had was BMC.

[fretlessman71]

You mean we agree on something? COOL! :cool: Let's get a beer!

Who do you know who carries Schafer Light?

[b3s]

say, i left a dead horse in here...anyone see it? ;)

sorry, i just couldn't resist!

[fretlessman71]

Yeah - you BEAT me to that joke! ;)

[Jake]

I been trying different macros to see which one could be my standby when a micro is unavailable. That is one reason I started the Thread "What macro would you drink" I wanted to see what all of you REAL BEER DRINKERS would drink went ever you could not get the good stuff.

[hopjack13]

A tad late buuuuuuuttttt!

NO!!! MACROSWILL SUCKS!!!! :p

[fretlessman71]

Maroswill? Sounds like some strange bland corporate dairy product.... ;)

Beer is important enough in and of itself to me such that I refuse to drink substandard versions of what I consider to be representative of the genuine article. It is not important enough for ME to have beer that I would drink something I didn't enjoy "just to be able to have a beer". And every penny spent on macroswill just adds fuel to the anti-macro ad campaign they've been waging. (Actually, I think Miller used the phrase "It's time for a good old-fashioned Macro Brew" in its ads several years ago - we're using the terminology of the enemy!)

The lowest I would ever consider going is if Coors still made their Winterfest beer. Haven't seen it in years, but I remember it being pretty darn good for Coors... but that's if there was NOTHING else available. And I can't imagine a store carrying Winterfest that wouldn't have something even better for sale as well.

[Beaver]

Originally posted by fretlessman71
Maroswill? Sounds like some strange bland corporate dairy product.... ;)

Beer is important enough in and of itself to me such that I refuse to drink substandard versions of what I consider to be representative of the genuine article. It is not important enough for ME to have beer that I would drink something I didn't enjoy "just to be able to have a beer". And every penny spent on macroswill just adds fuel to the anti-macro ad campaign they've been waging. (Actually, I think Miller used the phrase "It's time for a good old-fashioned Macro Brew" in its ads several years ago - we're using the terminology of the enemy!)

The lowest I would ever consider going is if Coors still made their Winterfest beer. Haven't seen it in years, but I remember it being pretty darn good for Coors... but that's if there was NOTHING else available. And I can't imagine a store carrying Winterfest that wouldn't have something even better for sale as well.

They had the Winterfest this past Christmas at Old Chicagos.

[steveh]

Originally posted by fretlessman71
...how willing are we to stand up for our favorite beers that regularly get stomped on by heavily-marketed, poor quality beer companies? Would you refuse a free BMC even if there was nothing else available? Would you refuse a free BMC from your best friend knowing that you were just going to buy something else in a minute or two? Would you refuse it knowing that you were going to have to stand next to him at the football game all night holding a beer you bought instead of the one HE bought for you? Would you walk out of a liquor store empty handed if they didn't have something besides BMC? ...but if you truly don't like it, will you shrug your shoulders and just "go with the flow" because you don't want to upset anyone? Would you willingly drink a "bad beer"?

A. Very willing, and often do.
B. Yes.
C. My best friend(s) would only do that in jest, they are either good beer lovers or respect my appreciation for good beer.
D. Refer to C.
E. Yes, and have - recently.
F. No.
G. No.

S.

[steveh]

Originally posted by Beaver
They had the Winterfest this past Christmas at Old Chicagos.

Is it at all like the beeer it once used to be? About 5 or 6 years after it was released for sale to the general public (it had been made for the private consumption of Coors' employees previous), it became a pretty bland, flavorless shadow of its former self. Right afterward it disappeared from the shelves (1992 - 92?).

S.

[steveh]

Originally posted by b3s
say, i left a dead horse in here...anyone see it? ;)

sorry, i just couldn't resist!

LOL!

S.

[steveh]

Originally posted by Jake
I been trying different macros to see which one could be my standby when a micro is unavailable.

Where you're located, you should still be able to find Bell's. If I can get it in Hancock, in the U.P., you should be able to find it around your neck o' the woods - along with some of the other good micros from Michigan.

S.

[fretlessman71]

THERE you are! MIA at work again? Us beersnobs have been getting tarred and feathered on this thread... we could have used your defense!

[chazwicke]

Originally posted by fretlessman71
How so? And besides... doesn't look like it in the polls so far! At this point I'm the only Macro abstainer...

I am a macro abstainer!

[chazwicke]

Originally posted by Fast_Eddy
It's really intent that's in question. We all tend to use the derisive form of the word "macro". Is "macro" a widely available beer(by production volume) or is it a widely available bland flavorless barley pop? I choose to interprete it as the latter. I don't put Guiness in that category.

Agreed. I do drink Guinness and it is a macro however I still consider myself a macro abstainer. Guinness deserves another catagory unto itself. Macro with taste maybe.

[chazwicke]

Originally posted by fretlessman71
Nope - not me. I truly think stuff like that is awful. Poured out a Henry Weinhard I got in my Mystery Mixer Sixer after 2 sips (the second was because I couldn't believe it was that bad). Just not worth the alcohol to me. And Bud gives me a splitting headache after the 3rd sip - happened twice about a year apart. (Had to remind myself why I hated it so much.) If that makes me a snob, so be it. You can call it BMC, macroswill, or what-have-you... a rose by any other name would taste as bad.

I guess I am a snob and damn proud of it. I agree with the motto: Life is too short to drink bad beer.
I think you and I look at it the same way Fret.

[chazwicke]

Originally posted by Steve16823
Well, you're completely free not to like it. Everyone has something they don't like.



In my life I rarely do something that i would rather not do. My life is good. I have a great wife and son. I love my job. I am finantually secure enough to afford what I want. And I don't drink crap beer. It is rare that I have to do something that I hate. Well, I mean there is the occasional wedding or holiday party I could do without but mostly I 'm lucky I guess.

[chazwicke]

Originally posted by fretlessman71
Maybe not folly... but it was folly to think that I'd come up with a somewhat scientific answer to a question like this. I guess I'm a snob... I just won't drink that stuff under anything less than the direst of circumstances (gunpoint, choking, etc.). And I know there are a few others like me here. I really hope this doesn't PO anyone here on the board who's a macro fan, or even someone who doesn't mind them. Just can't do 'em. Give me a water or a Coke and I'll be just fine.


I am with you Fret! I feel exactly the same way.

Sorry about so many posts in a row here. I have been responding as I have been reading through the thread. I missed most of this as I was traveling in Montreal for the past few days.

[Jeff]

I have been MIA for the last week as I lost my home internet connection, but still have to add my two cents. I would drink a BMC if offered to me by a friend. Just the same as if the friend offered me sushi or something else. I try not to offend my friends. I have been offered free BMC by a miller rep at a bar no less and gladly took it. I figure if they want to give away their beer that's fine I will help add a tiny little dent into their profits.

[wortchillergoal]

Originally posted by Jeff
I have been MIA for the last week as I lost my home internet connection, but still have to add my two cents. I would drink a BMC if offered to me by a friend. Just the same as if the friend offered me sushi or something else. I try not to offend my friends. I have been offered free BMC by a miller rep at a bar no less and gladly took it. I figure if they want to give away their beer that's fine I will help add a tiny little dent into their profits.

I would be willing to bet give away beer is figured into their budget. If it is in their budget then it is in the cost of the product to the final consumer. Even thpough we don't duy it, the guys who do are paying for your freebie. Yes, they should pay for your freebie if they chose to drink that which we will not consume.

[Fast_Eddy]

Originally posted by Jeff
I have been MIA for the last week as I lost my home internet connection, but still have to add my two cents. I would drink a BMC if offered to me by a friend. Just the same as if the friend offered me sushi or something else. I try not to offend my friends. I have been offered free BMC by a miller rep at a bar no less and gladly took it. I figure if they want to give away their beer that's fine I will help add a tiny little dent into their profits.

I've seen this rationale offered several times - so let me give my spin on it. My friends know to not offend me by offering me a BMC product. They also know full well that I wouldn't drink it if they did.

[wortchillergoal]

Originally posted by Fast_Eddy
I've seen this rationale offered several times - so let me give my spin on it. My friends know to not offend me by offering me a BMC product. They also know full well that I wouldn't drink it if they did.

If one of my friends has a BMC, one of the other guys will say get that out of sight or it will make Patrick get sick just looking at it.

[fretlessman71]

Roy would you get sick, Patrick? ;)

(Wort's probably one of about 4 people on the board that will get that... never mind.)

[wortchillergoal]

Originally posted by fretlessman71
Roy would you get sick, Patrick? ;)

(Wort's probably one of about 4 people on the board that will get that... never mind.)

Hey Fret, LOL. Want to see my Cup Ring?

[chazwicke]

Originally posted by Fast_Eddy
My friends know to not offend me by offering me a BMC product. They also know full well that I wouldn't drink it if they did.


Ditto

[DreamWeaver]

That Fretlessman!
That Fretlessman!
I do not like them Fretlessman!

Do you like a macro swill?
Would you drink one on a hill?
Would you drink one in a can
Would you could you Fretlessman?

Would you like them
here or there?

I would not like them
here or there.
I would not like them anywhere.

I do not like them in a can or bottle too oh Fretlessman.

Would you like them in a house?
Would you like them with a mouse?


I do not like them
in a house.
I do not like them
with a mouse.
I do not like them
here or there.
I do not like them
anywhere.
I do not like them Fretlessman.

Would you drink one
in a box?
Would you drink one
with a fox?

Not in a box.
Not with a fox.
Not in a house.
Not with a mouse.
I would not drink them
here or there.
I would not drink them anywhere.
I would not drink one from a can or bottle too oh Fretlessman.
:D

[chazwicke]

LOL!!!

[wortchillergoal]

Take a bow DreamWeaver. You get the Creative Award this Month.

[fretlessman71]

Ooh Dream Weaver
I believe drinking macros just ain't right
Ooh Dream Weaver
I believe it's a sin to drink Bud Light
Flying high with my Dunkel Weiss
Sends me to an astral plane
Travelling highways thru Mendoci(no)
Helps me avoid Miller's pain
Oooh Dream Weaver
I won't even drink one just for spite
Oooh Dream Weaver
I believe you weren't tryin' to pick a fight

;)

[wortchillergoal]

Fret, I have notified Wierd AL there is a new player on the scene.

[fretlessman71]

Can you get his autograph for my wife when you talk to him next?

[wortchillergoal]

I did not talk to him. I did have a couple of beers with his band. They did sign the cd cover that belonged to my nephew. They were nice guys and liked good beer. They said Al usally doen't join them out side of the venue for a beer.

[b3s]

there are beers that should be considered macros that i will drink...even beers that BMC offer. among those are amber bock (michelob) -- not a great beer, not even in style, but an OK beer. killians irish red (repeat previous). red hook esb (it's owned by one of BMC) is pretty decent.

there are non BMC macros i like, too...guinness, which to me is a great stand by beer. sam adams boston ale or sumerfest ale (hey, those two are actually good beers --- boston lager sucks, IMO). Harps lager is pretty decent. i try to differentiate between imports and macros, but hey...that's like putting heineken and pilsner urquell in the same class...both are import macros, but one has taste :P

that said, i'd rather have a heineken than a BMC anyday and twice on sunday!

i have friends who "prefer" bud light...so be it...they've had my home brews, they've even had beers i consider good. their call. i don't judge them for it...but i DO BYOB to their house!

[chazwicke]

Redhook beers are decent.

When I was in Canada the past couple of days, My associates switched from Coors Light to Labatt Blue light. They did accompany me to a brewpub where they sampled the IPA and enjoyed it and one of them started ordering what ever beer I ordered when we were having meals or just having beers. He definitely has a taste for micro brews.

One thing that always gets me is how someone with rather sophisticated wine tastes and an impressive wine seller will only drink some macro light when they drink beer. Go figure.

[fretlessman71]

What is the official word on the connection between Red Hook and AB? Is it partial ownership with some sort of clause that AB can't dictate how the beer is brewed or something like that?

[chazwicke]

At one time AB handled the distribution only buy I know things have changed. I can't recall what it was but recently there was some business news about Redhook and AB.

[corysdad]

[ motto: Life is too short to drink bad beer.
I think you and I look at it the same way Fret. [/B][/QUOTE]
I would like to definetly agree with chaz and all othe abstainers of macro swill, put me on the A team.
steveh does have the perfect motto...

[Jeff]

Okay I keep getting two different vibes from people and it might be two different groups, not real sure. I feel like one group says that BMC stuff doesn't have taste and is close to water etc. And I get from another group that BMC is terrible swill.

My view of it, it is damn close to water and as such doesn't bother me. If offered for free and I have nothing else but water to drink, yes I will drink it.

[DreamWeaver]

Jeff,
I guess I am pretty much the same. I am kinda guilty of being a flip-flopper here. I guess that was my point (if there was one) on the Green Eggs & Ham jingle. Meaning I won't go out and buy BMC but I don't want to commit to not ever having one again. Well, maybe a "B" but never an "M" or a "C"!

Since it was Fret's poll, and Sam-I-Am rhymed kinda EZ with Fretlessman, and I had a creative moment but it quickly passed.

AND, we all know what happened at the end of the Green Eggs & Ham Story right?

Fret, very good on the DW tune. Especially if you know the melody behind it. HAHAHA Fits good.

[hops99]

They did accompany me to a brewpub where they sampled the IPA and enjoyed it and one of them started ordering what ever beer I ordered when we were having meals or just having beers.

Fire that brown-noser, pronto!


One thing that always gets me is how someone with rather sophisticated wine tastes and an impressive wine seller will only drink some macro light when they drink beer. Go figure.

Great point. I continue to scratch my head when I see customers buy a couple $45 bottles of Chalk Hill, and turn around to grab a 12 pack of Coors Light cans. Makes NO sense to me at all - and it happens fairly often, despite my beervangelizing.


The bottom line for me (at the risk of offending damn near everyone that has contributed to this thread) is that this may be the most useless debate I've seen on realbeer, ever. Who gives a flying fig if a beer is a "macro" or a "micro" - terms that are governed simply by the brewery output. What is more important, to me anyway, is whether or not I'm drinking a QUALITY beer. I NEVER drink BMC, not because I'm a "snob", rather because the stuff makes me sick, plain and simple. But, it doesn't matter that BMC are "macros" either - hell, my local "micro" makes some horrid stuff from time to time that I wouldn't give to my dog (maybe my cat, though). I don't act prejudicial towards a brewery just because they brew X gallons of beer a year - people who rail against Sierra Nevada and Sam Adams just because they've achieved "macro" status should probably stay in their basement or garage where they belong...

Now if you're railing against Sam because you think the Summer Ale sucks, fine. Let's just stick to the merits of quality when rating a brewery, eh?

[Chris Vassilico]

:confused: Yes I guess!
OK, first post...glad to be here.
What I would like to point out is. Beer is beer. Some like it... some don't. Some like what I consider water..... Some like what I consider motor oil. All power to those that can stomache what I consider crap. Before drinking substandard, I would die of thirst first! I have never met anyone that when a beer run is immanent, says "I'll drink what ever yal are drinking." Unless he wasn't paying!
My favs are Youngs Double Chocolate Stout, Shiner (Every one of em), Tsing Tao, Fat Tire, Heineken Light, Corona in that order, but probably left a few important ones out. These are massively produced but I personally think they are fine beer.
I must say that I came to this site to find out more about BEER! I am on a quest.... searching for the BEST beer. And as they say if you want it done right you got to do it yourself. So a-Home Brewing I go! Any help will be appreciated guys. Figuring that a few beers will be choked down, in the search for Primo. If I don't like it, I am sure I can find someone to drink it.
In defense of what Fretlessman is trying to point out... Some people just won't drink substandard. Don't consume what you don't like. Heck the guy that invented Pearl beer made a mint, so someone must have liked it.

[wild]

I've always gone by the idea that:
There are two kinds of beer; there's good and then there's free.

Wild

[steveh]

Originally posted by fretlessman71
What is the official word on the connection between Red Hook and AB? Is it partial ownership with some sort of clause that AB can't dictate how the beer is brewed or something like that?

Fret - somewhere on the boards I have a post on this with words direct from one of the big-wigs at Redhook. I don't remember what forum I posted in, but it was within the last year.

Bottom line answer was, no - A/B can't monkey with our brew.

S.

[steveh]

Originally posted by wild
I've always gone by the idea that:
There are two kinds of beer; there's good and then there's free.

Believe it or not, there's free good beer too. I get 'em all the time from local micros, brew-pubs, and my favorite bar tender. They know how to sell and cultivate good customers as well as the big boys.

S.

[wild]

Originally posted by steveh
Believe it or not, there's free good beer too. I get 'em all the time from local micros, brew-pubs, and my favorite bar tender. They know how to sell and cultivate good customers as well as the big boys.

S.

The true meaning of:
Best of both worlds!

Wild

[chazwicke]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by chazwicke
[B
When I was in Canada the past couple of days, My associates switched from Coors Light to Labatt Blue light. They did accompany me to a brewpub where they sampled the IPA and enjoyed it and one of them started ordering what ever beer I ordered when we were having meals or just having beers. He definitely has a taste for micro brews.

Here is the website for the brewpub I visited in Montreal.

http://www.brutopia.net/main/index.html

[newportstorm]

Originally posted by steveh
Fret - somewhere on the boards I have a post on this with words direct from one of the big-wigs at Redhook. I don't remember what forum I posted in, but it was within the last year.

Bottom line answer was, no - A/B can't monkey with our brew.

S.

From Redhook's website:

http://phx.corporate-ir.net/phoenix.zhtml?c=95666&p=irol-newsArticle&t=Regular&id=586984&

Essentially, A-B owns about one-third of Redhook's stock and handles their distributuion. It was one of the first craft brews I learned from and I will never pass up an ESB, Blackhook Porter or Winterhook. They did change the Winterhook last year and introduced some nice hopping (more of a winter IPA now).

There has been talk about reviving some of the lost styles in 22 oz. bottles - nothing concrete, could be a baseless rumor. But I'd be willing to pony up for some Double Black Stout or Rye Beer.

Cheers!

[chazwicke]

I was at a tasting once where one of the owners brought their beers. This was right after the deal with AB. He said that AB would not have a say over the recipes. Many in the crowd were not happy about the AB dealings but my feeling was as long as the beer tastes good then I don't care. That is basically how I feel about it. Does not matter who makes it as long as it is a quality product and tastes good.

[fretlessman71]

I have always liked Redhook, but I have to say that I remember their "Ballard Bitter" being just a wee bit better than their "IPA" which is supposed to be the same thing... maybe it's just nostalgia... Can't wait to try their WinterHook this year, too. And I hope the rumors of the 22 oz. bottles are more than just rumors!

[Seymour]

They don't make the Rye anymore? Bummer. I'm really warming to rye beers. Hope it does come back. Yeah, I remember the Ballard Bitter as being better. Nostalgia? Perhaps.

If Sierrra Nevada is now considered a macro, then vive la macro! While they don't brew my favorites, they still put out a strong product--much more so than Sam Adams anything, or Pete's. I've got a couple bottles of SN Porter in my beer fridge even as we speak. If SN was all there was to drink, I wouldn't cry.

Anyone remember when Pete's used to put out a good product?

[fretlessman71]

I've heard about it, but my brother got to sample the stuff. By the time I had heard about Pete's, they had changed the recipe.

SN Porter is KILLER stuff - I could live on it if necessary!

Redhook still makes something called a SunRye - in fact, it's relatively new. But I suspect that's not what you're talking about, is it?

[chazwicke]

The "Pete" of Pete's fame is now into making gourmet chocolates. He sold out some time ago. I would equate his beers to Sam Adams but to tell the truth, I have not had one in a very long time. I was not really into them when Pete was still running the show. They were stepping stone beers.

[fretlessman71]

Yeah, but they had a cool little white dog on the bottlecap... :)

[chazwicke]

I like Left Hand's bottle caps and Three Floyds and Old Dominion's too.

[Beaver]

Originally posted by chazwicke
I like Left Hand's bottle caps and Three Floyds and Old Dominion's too.

I like Left Hand's as well.

[fretlessman71]

Haven't seen Old Dominion's but LH is pretty striking. If the handprints were white, I'd have to wonder if the beers were created by orcs! And FFF is just plain weird! But very cool, of course. And the SN Bigfoot caps have the cute little cartoon underneath the cap.... :)

[Beaver]

So what is on the Three Floyd's cap?

[fretlessman71]

They're all a little different, but they're all pretty psychedelic! When I finally crack that Alpha Klaus maybe I'll split it witcha...

[unkle bik]

Sure. Like someone else said, "the best of both worlds."
It would depend on my mood or occasion. When it comes to eating, do you prefer steak over hamburger? Some days a steak will fit, another a day a hamburger makes the day.

If a host wants to offer me a beer at a private party, I am not going to be rude or snobbish and ask "Well, what kind do have? You see, I drink only "certain" brands." I'll take whatever they hand me.

At a ball game or bar, I can SEE or ASK the choices. If none are to my liking, I can move on to something else.

Beer is like anything else. Mass producers can make a great product as well as the corner brewer. And that analogy can go both ways. Ferrari and Rolls-Royce make some really fine automobiles. But, to say that GM and Ford don't, is putting the blinders on.

Another thread gone totally off topic.

[Theakston]

Originally posted by unkle bik
If a host wants to offer me a beer at a private party, I am not going to be rude or snobbish and ask "Well, what kind do have? You see, I drink only "certain" brands." I'll take whatever they hand me.

I guess that's one advantage of being a Brit in the USA. If I turn down a macro, they usually just think "Oh he's from that country where they drink all that warm, flat, funny stuff...he wouldn't like our lovely cold fizzy beer" I will usually encourage them to think that while I help myself to a glass of wine.

[wortchillergoal]

Originally posted by unkle bik
If a host wants to offer me a beer at a private party, I am not going to be rude or snobbish and ask "Well, what kind do have? You see, I drink only "certain" brands." I'll take whatever they hand me.

I believe you can ask and refuse without being rude or snobish. Ask and if they have nothing you like, then say something about having to dry or having too many last night and ask for a nonalcoholic beverage. That would be one way.

A good host/hostess should offer you a wide variety of options,ie. alcohol or non, as a matter of politness stating what they have so you don't have to ask.

[Brownbeard]

I do not buy BMC products. I don't have any in the house. I try to drink good beer whenever possible. But, I know good and well I am going to be at homecoming this year at UNI, and when the good beers run out, I will be hitting the Bud. It may not be the socially acceptable way, but I like to tie on a raging drunk when the time is right. After I have been drinking for a few hours, one is as good as the next. I will gladly reach into that pail of ice, and grab a budweiser and raise a toast with my college buddies. Some of the best times of my life involved a keg of Milwaukee's Best. I appreciate that some beer is better than others, but sometimes ya just gotta party, no matter what the swill. Even the Bud will be better than the Jagermeister shots I will choke down. I do not look forward to the day I am too old or sophisticated to get ripped with my buddies.

[chazwicke]

Would you drink Mad Dog 20/20, Boones Farm or Ripple wine?

I'm not sure if they even make any of that rotgut stuff anymore.

Drinking BMC to me is that same as that.

[Brownbeard]

Originally posted by chazwicke
Would you drink Mad Dog 20/20, Boones Farm or Ripple wine?

I'm not sure if they even make any of that rotgut stuff anymore.

Drinking BMC to me is that same as that.

They make all those. I am not a wine drinker, but in the right setting, I would drink them straight from the bottle, as god intended.

[skahtboi]

Originally posted by chazwicke
Would you drink Mad Dog 20/20, Boones Farm or Ripple wine?

I'm not sure if they even make any of that rotgut stuff anymore.

Drinking BMC to me is that same as that.

I know that they still make Boone's Farm and MD 20/20 (not to mention regular Mogen David), and they also make Thunderbird as well. However, I haven't seen Ripple in ages!

I agree with the analogy that those "wines" compare with the BMC yellow fizz stuff excellently!

[skahtboi]

Originally posted by Brownbeard
They make all those.

Well...apparently they DO still make Ripple! :)

[Seymour]

Originally posted by fretlessman71
Redhook still makes something called a SunRye - in fact, it's relatively new. But I suspect that's not what you're talking about, is it?

Yes, actually, that's what I've had. Did they make something better before? The SunRye is okay, but pales in comparison to Real Ale's Full Moon Rye Pale Ale (there I go again).

Back in the mid-90's, Pete's put out a Maple Porter that was absolutely delicious. I only got one six pack, and haven't seen it since. Now their standard "ale" is little more than a bland me-too beer, IMO.