New AIM live tasting: 9/11/04

[fretlessman71]

First tasting was a HUGE success! I'm sure someone will try to post the entire conversation here or elsewhere... it was a lot of fun!

We're going to do this again on the 11th of Sept., after a brief moment of silence and a toast to all affected by the WTC attack 3 years ago. Problem is, we can't decide on what beer to taste! So, help us out.

Please only vote IF YOU TRULY PLAN TO ATTEND. We don't need people telling us to try Schafer Light!

Feel free to back up your choice with a post. If your choice is "other", tell us why.

We're leaning towards lighter beers for the remainder of the summer season, but we could be persuaded with the right campaign... so let us know!

If you want to be included on 9/11, post your AIM username here on that day - we'll come find you!

[Jeff]

I voted for the Paulaner Okto even though it will probably be too warm that day to truly enjoy. I know alot of people that want the PU but I haven't had good luck finding one that wasn't skunked.

[chazwicke]

Thanks Fret. I am voting for PU. I am curious as to the comments and conditions of the beer we will get. I'm gonna pull mine from an unopened carton. I had lots of fun with the SNPA tasting today.

[BrewDog]

I vote for the Widmer Hefeweisen.

[fretlessman71]

steveh, it looks like it's gonna be neck and neck between the PU and the Okto. If PU wins, are you prepared to be in charge of sending out non-lightstruck bottles to all the members? ;)

[Stodbrew]

Had to vote for the Paulaner because I already have it in my fridge! :D

[BrewDog]

FWIW- I'd be quite happy doing the Okto, too.

[Richard English]

In the UK AIM stands for "Alternative Investment Market" and 9/11/04 is the 9th of November.

Somehow that doesn't seem quite right to me...could somebody enlighten me?

[fretlessman71]

Originally posted by Richard English
In the UK AIM stands for "Alternative Investment Market" and 9/11/04 is the 9th of November.

Somehow that doesn't seem quite right to me...could somebody enlighten me? Sure!

"AIM" stands for AOL Instant Messenger. It's a chat service where you can type realtime and send messages to friends, and have their messages appear in return in the same window. You can have several different people in the same room if you wish. We decided to use it for this (http://www.realbeer.com/discussions/showthread.php?s=&threadid=4449) purpose.

And as for the date, I'll bet your knowledge of American dating code and the fact that I mentioned the World Trade Center in the first paragraph of this thread is enough to tell you that I'm talking about two weeks from yesterday. :D Sorry for leaving out the forum denizens from across the pond (and elsewhere) in this matter - but you're certainly welcome to join us the next time! I'm thinking 4:00 eastern here is about 9:00 where you are, isn't it? Grab a bottle of whatever we decide upon and meet us online!

[fretlessman71]

Jinja - how about parallel tasting? Does that seem less likely to be taken the wrong way? ;)

[steveh]

Originally posted by fretlessman71
steveh, it looks like it's gonna be neck and neck between the PU and the Okto. If PU wins, are you prepared to be in charge of sending out non-lightstruck bottles to all the members?

Uuhh... in time for 2 weeks? :eek:

S.

[corysdad]

I voted for the Paulaner because I've never tried it before and it would be cool to try for first time during our forum.
Also PU is very unpredictable some times good and some not so good.

[chazwicke]

Originally posted by corysdad

Also PU is very unpredictable some times good and some not so good.

THat is precisely why I want to try this. To see what kind of variations we come up with taste wise or to possibly put the skunky light struck theorys to rest.

[threecb]

I went with the okto because I REALLY wanna do an ofest and I won't be here on the 25th, if that's going to be the one after this...

[brewmonkey]

I would prefer the Rogue DGA but can get Paulaner too.

[Richard English]

Thank you. I am not familiar with Instant Messenger, I have to say, although I have had chats (and tastings) using the Internet before now.

Of course, I was having a go at you all for using the US date designation; I know what it means but, like most of the rest of the world (about 85% of it) would prefer to use a system that is unambiguous. Let's face it, even the US immigration authorities use the day/month/year designation and warn, very sternly, against the use of alternative systems when we foreigners land on your shores and have to fill in our immigration cards!

[steveh]

Originally posted by Richard English
Let's face it, even the US immigration authorities use the day/month/year designation and warn, very sternly, against the use of alternative systems when we foreigners land on your shores and have to fill in our immigration cards!

They allso tell German visitors to never use an umlaut and replace a single letter in a word with two - so who are you gonna pick to stand behind? :rolleyes:

S.

[Richard English]

I am saying only that a US official body - and a very important one - tells visitors to the USA to show their dates in the internationally agreed format - not the unusual US format. If they think that's the way to do things, and the rest of the world thinks that's the way to do things, then maybe the US populace as a whole should think that, just possibly - that that might be the way to do things!

[Bruno_78]

Although I don't engage in international converstaions often, I would also agree that we should use the same date/time designations as the rest of the world. That seems like a pretty important piece of information. Also, unlike most Americans, I think we would be much better off using the metric system of measurment. It would be nearly impossible, and would cause too many headaches to try to switch in our culture now, but it sure would have been nice.

[fretlessman71]

OK... veering this thread back on topic! Here goes:

We seem to have a few of us who really want to do an Okto, don't really want to do PU, and can't make it on 9/25 (with not-so-sincere apologies to Richard). My thought is as such: Let's do Paulaner on the 11th and PU on the 25th. Who's up for that? That will give everyone who wants to do the PU tasting plenty of time to find a fresh bottle (you may have to go to your paint store owner and explain the situation to them to get their help). Thoughts?

[Stodbrew]

I think that's a great idea, Fret! That'll give me time to find a 12 pack of PU, which seem to be somewhat rare around here. All I can ever find are the sixers.

[Richard English]

Quote "...It would be nearly impossible, and would cause too many headaches to try to switch in our culture now, but it sure would have been nice...."

In fact, although there are many who resist, the UK is gradually moving towards full metrication and it's actually no big deal. Just show both measures on all scales and you soon cotton on.

In the USA the first problem to be oversome, before any conversion to metric, is to introduce a law that says that all dispense quantities must be shown before purchase.

In the UK you can't buy "a beer" - you have to ask for the amount you want (and that must be in multiples of an Imperial pint or by the container - the size of which must be shown). I know, from bitter experience, that "a beer" in a US bar can be any size at all.

[fretlessman71]

Does anyone else think of "SpiderMan 2" when they see the word "Okto"? Or maybe Zelda? Hmmm....

[fretlessman71]

Hey, Richard... I know you're not much of a lager guy, but do you ever drink Pilsner Urquell? What are your thoughts on it? And do you ever have trouble with beer sold in a green bottle there?

[Richard English]

You're right I'm not really a lager person. Having said which, I have never had any problems with any bottled beer in the UK - although I know from this board that poor beer happens in the USA.

Two possible reason spring to mind.

Firstly we are very near to Belgium and trade extensively (Britain is still the world's greatest trading nation) - so most things turn over quickly.

Secondly, all consumables must, by Law, have a "best before" date on their containers. No retailer would hang onto out of date stock and hope to pass it off since it's very easy for a customer to check. Anything out of its "best before" date would be rejected - and rightly so.

[Stodbrew]

It would be nice if it were that way here in the US, but, alas, it isn't. However, a best before date won't help a beer in a green bottle from becoming skunked. Skunking can happen in about 10 seconds, if in direct sunlight. Certainly, it will happen much more slowly in the flourescent lights of a store, but it will happen rather quickly, still.

[fretlessman71]

I guess the problem we have here is ignorance based - even beer for sale well before its "best before" date can be lightstruck, and green bottles are usually the ones that turn out bad. This is part of why I voted for PU this time; I'm willing to give it another chance. But we'll see.

BTW, many American breweries are getting with the program and printing bottling dates on the bottles or the cases. It's making my life much easier. :)

[studentofbeer]

paulaner okto then PU sounds fine to me. I'll have to search for some paulaner in bottles. I know where i can find it on draft though :)

also, I'd like to submit for future tastings Duvel, Chimay Red or Blue, and a hefe like Schneider or Franziskaner or something, though these are all "foreign" rather than american craft. But they ought to all be interesting and informative.

[Richard English]

Quote "...Skunking can happen in about 10 seconds..."

I have never had a commercially-brewed beer that has deteriorated in the bottle (although I have drunk a few that have been pretty foul simply because that's the way they are).

I have had some homebrew go off in this way - but in months, not days, let alone seconds.

Some beers in the UK are sold in clear bottles and I feel sure that, if exposure to ultra violet was a major problem for them, they would use dark bottles.

I am not saying that the problem does not exist simply that it does not seem to be a major issue here. It would be interesting to find out why.

[fretlessman71]

My guess is that, like you say, the turnover is much greater in Britain than it is here. Importing is only worth it if you can get a lot of product at once, isn't it? This leads to stuff sitting around for longer than is good for it.

Also, with the clear bottles there's not so much of a "skunked" aroma as there is a bland, cardboardy flavor. Was Newcastle ever a really good beer? I have never liked here in the states, and I had it as long ago as 1989. Samuel Smith's seems to be another beer I was supposed to be impressed with, and I just couldn't get into any of them, with the exception of the India Ale (which, not surprisingly, is sold in a brown bottle).

There have been numerous studies that show that clear and green bottles make many buyers think they're getting a better beer - it's the same ignorance that makes people buy Bud instead of Budvar! GRRR..... :D

[fretlessman71]

Originally posted by Stodbrew
Skunking can happen in about 10 seconds.
Well, that's an exaggeration.... maybe 40-45 seconds. ;)

[fretlessman71]

Okay, back to the topic. Please let me know if you have a problem with doing Paulaner Oktoberfest on the 11th and Pilsner Urquell on the 25th! Otherwise, it's a date!

[b3s]

heh, the issue of clear bottles goes way back. i can't remember which tsar of all the russias designed the bottle for cristal, but it was specifically designed to be clear such that one could enjoy the look of the wine...

[Stodbrew]

Originally posted by fretlessman71
Well, that's an exaggeration.... maybe 40-45 seconds. ;)



Actually, it's not. It can, and does, happen that fast in direct sunlight. Give it a shot.

[Stodbrew]

Originally posted by Richard English
Quote "...Skunking can happen in about 10 seconds..."

I have never had a commercially-brewed beer that has deteriorated in the bottle (although I have drunk a few that have been pretty foul simply because that's the way they are).

I have had some homebrew go off in this way - but in months, not days, let alone seconds.

Some beers in the UK are sold in clear bottles and I feel sure that, if exposure to ultra violet was a major problem for them, they would use dark bottles.

I am not saying that the problem does not exist simply that it does not seem to be a major issue here. It would be interesting to find out why.


I have had Marston's Old Empire IPA, brought over for me, in a clear bottle, and it was indeed, very skunky.

[chazwicke]

I'm up for the Paulaner first them PU.

[Jeff]

Fret, sounds like a good idea for the 11th and 25th. I think I might try to get a bomber of PU and hope for the best. I don't want to be stuck with 11 more bottles of skunk.

[fretlessman71]

MY SUGGESTION FOR THE PILSNER URQUELL TASTING:

Go to your favorite homebrew store THIS WEEK and ask when the next shipment of PU is coming in. Odds are that sometime in the next 4 weeks they'll be getting some fresh from the distributor, and if you go to the "order guy", he might be able to help you out with it. This way you have the best chance of getting a non-tainted bottle.

If we want, we can ALSO try to find a single of PU that's been sitting in the front of the cooler, absorbing all of that lovely fluorescent light as a comparison. It seems appropriate to have one like that for each of us so we can compare it to a supposedly non-lightstruck bottle. What say you?

[Jinja]

Sounds good, Fret. I'm looking forward to the Paulaner - I'm not sure I have had that one.

We have PU in the local supermarket - I wonder what the turnover is there?I'm guessing that for the supermarket to carry it, it must leave the shelves fairly frequently.

So isn't there some sort of special packaging you are supposed to look for that supposedly protects the beer?

Jinja Out

[Jeff]

Originally posted by Jinja
We have PU in the local supermarket - I wonder what the turnover is there?I'm guessing that for the supermarket to carry it, it must leave the shelves fairly frequently.

So isn't there some sort of special packaging you are supposed to look for that supposedly protects the beer?

Jinja Out

First time I tried PU it came from the supermarket cooler case with fluorescent lights. When I uncapped the bottle you could smell the skunk from across the room.

The twelve packs are totally enclosed in cardboard so should be the best bet. I had a six pack in the standard cardboard carrier, not the best idea, but really didn't know any better.

[b3s]

i've never had a problem with PU, but i've always gotten the 12-packs from a decent beer place (one that pulls older bottles and returns them to the distributor...probably to be sold at grocery stores).

[Richard English]

Quote "...Was Newcastle ever a really good beer?..."

If you mean Newcastle Brown then my answer is no. It has never been a good beer. A strong beer, yes. A well-advertised beer, surely. A beer that is universally available, indeed. But a good beer, not by any stretch of the imagination.

Strange, is it not, that the "strong, well-advertised and universally available soubriquet" could apply to the products of a certain A-B, could it not?

There are some fine British bottled beers and my advice has always been, go for bottle-conditioned and you won't go far wrong. Neither Sam Smiths nor Newcastle Brown are bottle-conditioned; Fuller's 1845 and Young's SLA are.

[fretlessman71]

Originally posted by Stodbrew
Actually, it's not. It can, and does, happen that fast in direct sunlight. Give it a shot.
I'll take your word for it - the smell turns me off so bad that I can't believe I made my suggestion from earlier, but I'll suck it up and be a man about it for the greater good of the beer drinking community.

People, people, people-- LIGHT KILLS!!! TELL YOUR FRIENDS!!!!

[Stahlsturm]

Originally posted by steveh
They allso tell German visitors to never use an umlaut and replace a single letter in a word with two - so who are you gonna pick to stand behind? :rolleyes:

S.

I´ve made very bad experiences with that. I always just leave the 2 dotts off and everyone´s happy.

[Stahlsturm]

I´ll just drive to Czechia and get me a case at the border.

Speaking of PU, I´ve had it in various ways and in my experience the quality and taste has gone down considerably since the iron curtain fell. The czech border is only about 70 miles from where I live and we used to go over there with a day visum to buy beer. Todays PU is considerably less good than in the old days and I also noticed that the stuff they sell in Czechia is much better than the stuff they export to the US. I think they exhausted their original water supply. Sad story that...

[steveh]

Originally posted by fretlessman71
Does anyone else think of "SpiderMan 2" when they see the word "Okto"? Or maybe Zelda? Hmmm....

Zelda? As in F. Scott and Zelda?

I think I would like to officially proclaim myself Doc Okto! ;)

S.

[steveh]

Originally posted by Jeff
I don't want to be stuck with 11 more bottles of skunk.

You got skunked Pilsner Urquel in a 12 pack? Hmm, you sure you weren't drinking it too cold? If not, I'd stay away from whatever store you got that from, they're selling reeaal old stock.

BTW - I've had bad luck with bombers of PU, they're green too and are almost always in direct light - shelf or cooler.

S.

[steveh]

Originally posted by fretlessman71
If we want, we can ALSO try to find a single of PU that's been sitting in the front of the cooler, absorbing all of that lovely fluorescent light as a comparison. It seems appropriate to have one like that for each of us so we can compare it to a supposedly non-lightstruck bottle. What say you?

That's not a bad idea - give everyone a good idea of what "skunk" really is.

S.

BTW - rumor has it that Grölsch tends to always be skunked. A friend uses the term as an permanent adjective for the beer.

[steveh]

Originally posted by Stahlsturm
I´ll just drive to Czechia and get me a case at the border.

Sorry, you can't participate - it will just make everyone else jealous! ;)

Todays PU is considerably less good than in the old days

While I'm sure there are many factors that have changed Urquel over the years, I think that the biggest was changing from oak lagering barrels to stainless steel. The oak barrels imparted a distinct character to the beer that made it unique as well as delicious.

And I can't imagine that any beer at its source wouldn't taste better than what is imported - but it's a burden we must bear -- until we go to our local brew-pub.

S.

BTW - LOL at your umlaut story! I have friends named Tröscher, for the longest time I thought it was spelled Troescher because they didn't want to use the umlaut in the U.S.

[threecb]

Thanks for accomodating me on the Paulaner. Bummer I can't be here for the PU one. I'd like to give it a try. If, by then, we get a system of archiving the chats in place, then I'll read through as I'm sampling one at a later date.

And I think the "Zelda" that fret refers to is Nintendo's Zelda games...

[Stahlsturm]

Originally posted by steveh
Sorry, you can't participate - it will just make everyone else jealous! ;)

Not fair... *pouts*

[Stahlsturm]

Originally posted by steveh
BTW - LOL at your umlaut story! I have friends named Tröscher, for the longest time I thought it was spelled Troescher because they didn't want to use the umlaut in the U.S.

Actually in german both ways of spelling are considered correct. The pain starts when you have Umlauts (the correct plural would be Umlaute BTW) in the billing address of your credit card... I´m sure you can see where that one leads.

[fretlessman71]

Originally posted by steveh
BTW - rumor has it that Grölsch tends to always be skunked. A friend uses the term as an permanent adjective for the beer. Wouldn't this simply be a case of suffering from the same thing that PU has all these years?

[fretlessman71]

Originally posted by threecb
And I think the "Zelda" that fret refers to is Nintendo's Zelda games... How right you are! My wife got me hooked. It took me 6 months to get away from my concept of the home video game as looking like my Atari 2600, but I'm much better now at navigating in 3-D. :rolleyes:

[Jeff]

Originally posted by steveh
You got skunked Pilsner Urquel in a 12 pack? Hmm, you sure you weren't drinking it too cold? If not, I'd stay away from whatever store you got that from, they're selling reeaal old stock.

BTW - I've had bad luck with bombers of PU, they're green too and are almost always in direct light - shelf or cooler.

S.


My bad Steve. I should have said five. I've never purchased a twelve pack of PU.

[fretlessman71]

OK, OK, that does it - we're all buying 12ers of the PU and selling the rest to steveh if we don't like them! :D

(You could always trade us for any FFF or Capital you can get your hands on, steve... doesn't Cap make a pils? )

[steveh]

Originally posted by Jeff
My bad Steve. I should have said five. I've never purchased a twelve pack of PU.

Whew!!

S.

Fret - I'll buy 'em...if you can A.)You can prove they're really skunked and B.) You sell 'em to me at .92¢ per bottle - as my local does! ;)

Oh yeah - Capital does make a Pils - a good one too!

[chazwicke]

That is a good reason to have a tasting of PU. I was hoping to see just what conditions would show up when we had the tasting. I'm going to try to get three bottles from different sources just for comparison. (Or maybe two from three different sources). I hope that we can maybe dispell some of the misconceptions about this beer.
I had a Rebel Czech Pils later on that evening and I think it was edging towards the end of it's freshness. I was not impressed although I have sampled this at festivals and have liked it before. Maybe it was the combo of heavier SNPA and stilton.

[steveh]

Originally posted by chazwicke
Maybe it was the combo of heavier SNPA and stilton.

That could have definitely had an effect! When I tried PU and SNPA side-by-side, whichever I tried first, the malts would stand out huge on the other! Adding some nice English blue cheese to the mix would certainly effect something as soft in body as a Czech Pils.

S.

[hops99]

While we're on the subject of European Lagers, has anyone tried the Weihenstephaner Original Lager recently? I've thought the Weiss was decent the last few summers, but I saw on another board some rave reviews for the lager. I brought some into the store last week, and I'm tempted to sample a sixer.

[Stahlsturm]

Originally posted by hops99
While we're on the subject of European Lagers, has anyone tried the Weihenstephaner Original Lager recently? I've thought the Weiss was decent the last few summers, but I saw on another board some rave reviews for the lager. I brought some into the store last week, and I'm tempted to sample a sixer.

Weihenstephan is an interesting place. It´s a state run university that specialized in agricultural subjects. If you want to learn how to brew and actually get a university degree, Weihenstephan is the place to go.

Most brewers around here prefer the traditional way of apprenticeship though. Takes longer but is less academic.

Here in Bavaria Weihenstephan has a good reputation but is a bit on the pricey side. We call it a hidden subvention of the University, hehehe.

[fretlessman71]

Is wehienstephaner nationally available? Would this make a good tasting beer? There seems to be some history behind it.

[fretlessman71]

Originally posted by steveh
Whew!!

S.

Fret - I'll buy 'em...if you can A.)You can prove they're really skunked and B.) You sell 'em to me at .92� per bottle - as my local does!

Oh yeah - Capital does make a Pils - a good one too! I'm sure we can work something out (you'll have to pay for shipping and handling, though).... ;)

Actually, based on your other recommendations, I'm sure I'll enjoy it this time around - let's hope that it's something I'll want to drink in the cold, though... I'm hearing rumblings of an early, long, hard, cold winter 'round these parts...

[fretlessman71]

Since I think we've heard from everyone and we need to give people time to get their beers, I hereby vote that Steveh close the poll so we don't confuse anyone by leaving it open. We're all pretty solid on doing Paulaner on the 11th, eh what?

Thanks steveh!

[steveh]

Originally posted by fretlessman71
I'm sure we can work something out (you'll have to pay for shipping and handling, though)....

N'uh uh - you guys want to toss out great beer, it's gotta be yourdime! ;)

BTW - it looks like someone stuffed the ballot for Fullers 1845 (Richard), Maybe that ought to be Beer #4. That is, if the voters really intend to be present during the tasting!

S.

[Stahlsturm]

Originally posted by fretlessman71
Is wehienstephaner nationally available? Would this make a good tasting beer? There seems to be some history behind it.

No, Weihenstephan isn´t available nationally and thank God for it. All beers that are available nationally are donkey piss by default. Seeing an advertisement for a bavarian beer in northern Germany translates to "This is unoffensive pseudo beer brewed for those who don´t know any better".

The University is fairly recent actually but it´s on the location of an old monastery and those monks knew how to brew, hehehe.

[steveh]

Originally posted by Stahlsturm
I´ll just drive to Czechia and get me a case at the border.

I know you don't like the big fests, but I think you ought to make the drive in early Oktober!
http://www.pilsnerfest.cz/de/index.htm

S.

[Stahlsturm]

Originally posted by steveh
I know you don't like the big fests, but I think you ought to make the drive in early Oktober!
http://www.pilsnerfest.cz/de/index.htm

S.

And make a report for you poor people who can´t go ? *g* The problem here might be that I´m on vacation on Austria during that time. We have this little mountain hut in Styria with fishing and stuff. They also have a very yummy local brewery.

http://www.murauerbier.at/

[steveh]

Originally posted by Stahlsturm
They also have a very yummy local brewery.

http://www.murauerbier.at/

The Doppelmalz looks goood! I assume that they use only Styrian Golding hops in their beers? ;)

BTW - the question by Fret of Weihenstephan being nationally available was directed at the U.S. nationally - which here, it probably is available.

Sometimes we forget that we're an international community here at RB and on the world wide web - but that doesn't mean we don't enjoy and respect the fact!

S.

[b3s]

Originally posted by steveh
BTW - it looks like someone stuffed the ballot for Fullers 1845 (Richard), Maybe that ought to be Beer #4. That is, if the voters really intend to be present during the tasting!


well, one of those 1845 votes was mine...so much for secret balloting :cool:

[Stahlsturm]

Originally posted by steveh
The Doppelmalz looks goood! I assume that they use only Styrian Golding hops in their beers? ;)My favourite there is the "Märzen". We bring ourselves a case of that every time we go which is about twice a year. It´s only 400 km (~ 250 miles) from Regensburg and it´s (almost) all motorway so we can be there in 3 hours.

Originally posted by steveh
BTW - the question by Fret of Weihenstephan being nationally available was directed at the U.S. nationally - which here, it probably is available.

Sometimes we forget that we're an international community here at RB and on the world wide web - but that doesn't mean we don't enjoy and respect the fact!

S. Oh, oi see. Well, Weihenstephan products are not even available everywhere in Bavaria so I wonder if they really export original beer to the US or if they just let somebody else brew under their label over there.

[Stahlsturm]

Originally posted by fretlessman71
If you want to be included on 9/11, post your AIM username here on that day - we'll come find you! What time will that take place anyways ? I´d like to take part even though I doubt very much the Paulaner Oktoberfest beer I buy at the local supermarket will be identical with yours. Here in Germany I´m 6 hours ahead of EST which probably explains my weird hours of posting here, hehehe.

[steveh]

Originally posted by Stahlsturm
My favourite there is the "Märzen".

It looks as though they brew the lighter colored style of Märzen, is this so? Though I like this beer, I prefer the Amber Märzen of old - which we still recieve from Spaten, Paulaner, and Hacker-Pschorr here in the U.S.

or if they just let somebody else brew under their label over there. [/B]

I know of no German brewery contract brewing their beers in the U.S. since Münchener Löwenbräu stopped dealing with Miller then Molsen (Molsen?). If the label states "imported," it must be - according to law.

The AIM tasting will take place at 4:00 pm Eastern Time (16:00), so 22:00 Regensburg time - will you be able to join? I'd be interested to know if you can find the Paulaner Amber style Märzen in Bayern any more.

S.

[Stahlsturm]

Originally posted by steveh
It looks as though they brew the lighter colored style of Märzen, is this so? Though I like this beer, I prefer the Amber Märzen of old - which we still recieve from Spaten, Paulaner, and Hacker-Pschorr here in the U.S.Yeah, their Märzen is almost like a Lager. Maybe it´s mislabeled but the beers you usually get in Austria (Gösser / Puntigamer) are so absolutely horrible...



Originally posted by steveh
I know of no German brewery contract brewing their beers in the U.S. since Münchener Löwenbräu stopped dealing with Miller then Molsen (Molsen?). If the label states "imported," it must be - according to law.

The AIM tasting will take place at 4:00 pm Eastern Time (16:00), so 22:00 Regensburg time - will you be able to join? I'd be interested to know if you can find the Paulaner Amber style Märzen in Bayern any more.

S. "Märzen" is usually a seasonal beer in Spring here. "März" = March. So I´m not sure I´ll find it right now but I´ll look.

22:00 is a bit late to start out on a Thursday. I have to work on Friday and I usually get up at 6:00. But I should be able to make it for an hour or so :-) If you´ll have me, hehehe.

[steveh]

Originally posted by Stahlsturm
"Märzen" is usually a seasonal beer in Spring here. "März" = March. So I´m not sure I´ll find it right now but I´ll look.

The tradition of Märzen Bier (am I teaching beer history to a native German?) is that it is brewed in März; in the past, the last month of brewing before pollen and other contaminates filled the Spring and Summer air and could ruin a beer being brewed. The Märzen was brewed heartier to last in lagering caves throughout the season and finished off just as the first batch of Autumn beer was available.

So yes, it's called "Märzen," but because it was brewed in März - not because it was to be consumed then. and really, Märzen is more of a technique than a specific style as any beer brewed in March, in days of old, could be considered a Märzen - even before the first Oktoberfest. Until Sedelmayer introduced his amber beer at the Oktoberfest in 1872, the beers served were Dunkel style.

Of course, this has all been rendered a quaint tradition with the advent of modern brewing technology, allowing brewing to continue year round.

Yes, Oktoberfest is my favorite style of beer!

22:00 is a bit late to start out on a Thursday. I have to work on Friday and I usually get up at 6:00. But I should be able to make it for an hour or so :-) If you´ll have me, hehehe.

I was afraid it might be late for you. And of course we'll have you - just so long as you don't brag about how good your Pils or Paulaner tastes! ;)

S.

[steveh]

Brief history of Lager:

Josef and the Oktoberfest

As late as 1871, Bavaria's lagers were all still dark. In that year, Gabriel Sedlmayr's brother Josef brewed in Munich a trial version of a Vienna-style lager. In the meantime, Josef had become a commercially successful brewer. He owned the Franziskaner brewery, which later merged with Spaten. He gathered a circle of distinguished citizens to sample his new beer, an amber-red brew that was a novelty in Munich and a step on the road to paler lagers. The first regular Vienna-style batch was made in March 1872 and lagered until September. It was thus identified as a Marzenbier and was ready in time for the Oktoberfest.

Marzenbier remained the principal style of beer at the Oktoberfest until the last couple of decades. In recent years it has been largely replaced by malt-accented beers of a similar strength (around 4.5 percent alcohol by weight, 5.75 by volume) but a bronze or golden color. Munich's everyday beers also began to turn gold in the 1890s, with Spaten again claiming credit for that innovation. Paulaner claims to have popularized the golden style of Munich beer in the 1920s and '30s. Munich's interpretation, usually identified as a Hell or Helles ("pale"), is again malt accented, but typically with an alcohol content of 3.7 percent by weight, 4.6 by volume.

[Stahlsturm]

Originally posted by steveh
The tradition of Märzen Bier (am I teaching beer history to a native German?) is that it is brewed in März; in the past, the last month of brewing before pollen and other contaminates filled the Spring and Summer air and could ruin a beer being brewed. The Märzen was brewed heartier to last in lagering caves throughout the season and finished off just as the first batch of Autumn beer was available.

So yes, it's called "Märzen," but because it was brewed in März - not because it was to be consumed then. I´m aware of that. We´re talking BAVARIA here so how long you think it lasted ? *g* What I really meant is that in this day and age breweries don´t really bother with Märzen or if they do (the smaller the more likely) it only lasts for a month or two, then it´s back to the regular program. So it is a seasonal beer. If you get it at all, it´s March / April or you missed out. And the Austrians brew it all year around.


Originally posted by steveh
I was afraid it might be late for you. And of course we'll have you - just so long as you don't brag about how good your Pils or Paulaner tastes! ;)I hope this won´t hurt you but I have to admit I tend to avoid Paulaner like the plague. Same goes for Löwenbräu. Löwenbräu München that is. There´s a Löwenbäu Passau as well which is MUCH better. I´m spoilt, aren´t I ? *g*

But I´ll try to dig that Spaten Amber Märzen up. I think Spaten is very drinkable, not that I get it too often with all those local brews close.

[steveh]

Originally posted by Stahlsturm
I´m aware of that. We´re talking BAVARIA here so how long you think it lasted ? *g*

Actually, that was part of the problem (so I've heard) at the first Oktofest that Sedelmayer introduced his Amber Märzen. Story goes that it had been a particularly hot Summer in Bavaria that year, and the beer had run out half-way through the Fest! The Lord Mayor implored Sedelmayer to help - and that's when he brought the amber to the masses - so legend goes.

What I really meant is that in this day and age breweries don´t really bother with Märzen or if they do (the smaller the more likely) it only lasts for a month or two, then it´s back to the regular program. So it is a seasonal beer. If you get it at all, it´s March / April or you missed out. And the Austrians brew it all year around.

I'll have to defer to you since you're at the heart of the matter, but I do have cans and bottles brought back from Munich that have Märzen and Amber Märzen on their labels - both from the same brewery. I also have some great small flags from the Stuttgarter Brauerei that read: "Bitte - Noch einmal ein Märzen Fest Bier," from the Stuttgarter Volkfest.

Interesting if the tradition is changing due to labeling. You do still drink Maibock in May, right? ;)

I hope this won´t hurt you but I have to admit I tend to avoid Paulaner like the plague. Same goes for Löwenbräu. Löwenbräu München that is. There´s a Löwenbäu Passau as well which is MUCH better. I´m spoilt, aren´t I ? *g*

I'm a Spaten man myself, and yes - I've had some great other Löwenbräu throughout Bavaria too. Though I really like the Munich Löwenbräu Keller, it's fun and has great food (IMO).

But I´ll try to dig that Spaten Amber Märzen up. I think Spaten is very drinkable

See - you know what I'm talking about! ;-)

S.

[Stahlsturm]

Originally posted by steveh
Actually, that was part of the problem (so I've heard) at the first Oktofest that Sedelmayer introduced his Amber Märzen. Story goes that it had been a particularly hot Summer in Bavaria that year, and the beer had run out half-way through the Fest! The Lord Mayor implored Sedelmayer to help - and that's when he brought the amber to the masses - so legend goes.We ARE a thirsty people, hehehe. 1872 was also the first Oktoberfest after the french-german war that lead to the founding of the second german empire under Hohenzollern. The 2 previous Oktoberfests were wartime so one can imagine the survivors were exceptionally thirsty.

Originally posted by steveh
I'll have to defer to you since you're at the heart of the matter, but I do have cans and bottles brought back from Munich that have Märzen and Amber Märzen on their labels - both from the same brewery. I also have some great small flags from the Stuttgarter Brauerei that read: "Bitte - Noch einmal ein Märzen Fest Bier," from the Stuttgarter Volkfest.

Interesting if the tradition is changing due to labeling. You do still drink Maibock in May, right? ;)Yeah, they still drink Maibock in May. Although, Kneitinger releases their Bock in early November which I always thought was an odd time. It does warm you up well and lightens up dark November days, hehehe.

Originally posted by steveh
I'm a Spaten man myself, and yes - I've had some great other Löwenbräu throughout Bavaria too. Though I really like the Munich Löwenbräu Keller, it's fun and has great food (IMO).

See - you know what I'm talking about! ;-)
The other Löwenbräu is in Passau and they are unfairly burdened with the name. As a local the first question when seeing a Löwenbräu label is "München oder Passau", hehehe.

We outsiders don´t like München very much, it´s the capital syndrome. They think we´re backwards hillbillies and we think they are bigheaded fools. I´m sure there´s examples for that in the US as well ?

Oh, and btw, since I haven´t found a place to introduce myself, I´m Hartmuth.

[chazwicke]

The Weihenstephan beers are available in the US and are the same as in Germany. There is a good variety of them available.

I don't like most Austrian beer that I have had either, Especially Gosser Golden Rock

I enjoyed the Lowenbrau Haus in Munchen too.

I passed through some of the towns that you mentioned going from Bamberg to Pilsen, Prague and Ceske Budovich (sp). In Bayruth We enjoyed good beer as well as visited the Opera House made famous by Wagner. I've been to other Franconian breweries as well. Coberg has the Scheidmantle brewery which makes very good beers. My favorite was a very small brewpub along the road outside of Coberg where I was looking for the WC and stumbled into the brewery. I speak very little German and the brewer spoke very little English. None the less he gave me a tour. This was probably the smallest commercial brewery I had ever been in. The beer was Grosch or something like that. My buddies had wondered what was taking so long. I know I have pictures somewhere. Also, Another neat place I stopped on one trip was a church (of the 14 saints). We found no zimmer to sleep so we spent the night in the car. We were up about 6 AM and found this church. (we traveled to it to see the statue of St. Dennis holding his cut off head and the grizzeled bones and veins sticking out of his neck). There was a brewery nearby and we followed our noses. The workers gave us beer and then we toured the church. I will try to find a website on this church. The statuary was stunning.

[steveh]

Originally posted by Stahlsturm
1872 was also the first Oktoberfest after the french-german war that lead to the founding of the second german empire under Hohenzollern...

Interesting insight.

Although, Kneitinger releases their Bock in early November...

I've heard that the darker bocks are becoming tradition as a Winter or holiday beer. The word is that one of our micro-breweries is switching their dark bocks to Winter release as well: Capital (http://www.capital-brewery.com/ourbeers/darkdopp.html)

The other Löwenbräu is in Passau ...

I've enjoyed Häller Löwenbräu from Scwabia and Bad Wörishofer Löwenbräu from just west of Munich too. The latter being a great Braugasthöff - I have a nice Krug from them as well.

We outsiders don´t like München very much,

As much as Berliners don't like Bavarians? ;)

I´m Hartmuth.

I was just gonna call you Sturm! ;-)

S.

[Stahlsturm]

Originally posted by steveh
Interesting insight.I´m a history nut :-) Living in a town with a recorded history of 2000 years does that to you :-)

Originally posted by steveh
I've heard that the darker bocks are becoming tradition as a Winter or holiday beer. The word is that one of our micro-breweries is switching their dark bocks to Winter release as well: Capital (http://www.capital-brewery.com/ourbeers/darkdopp.html) Well, we get Bock twice a year here in Regensburg. Fresh from the cask I mean. Bottled stuff you get all year around. Kneitinger has it in November and Prösselbräu in May. Both are huge public drinking orgies, hehehe.

Originally posted by steveh
I've enjoyed Häller Löwenbräu from Scwabia and Bad Wörishofer Löwenbräu from just west of Munich too. The latter being a great Braugasthöff - I have a nice Krug from them as well.Löwenbräu is not a trademark but a traditional name so there´s plenty of those. The thing about München and Passau is that they´re the same company but vastly differ in quality. At leastr that´s what my taste buds tell me, hehehe.

Originally posted by steveh
As much as Berliners don't like Bavarians? ;)Yeah, pretty much like that. We get an amazing amount of tourists from Berlin every year considering that fact, hehehe. Guess it´s more jealousy than dislike. *g*

Originally posted by steveh
I was just gonna call you Sturm! ;-)
LOL
Most americans stumble over my name. I always earn myself raised eyebrows when I explain it´s an ethnical germanic name but that´s what it is. It´s so heathen and rare that christian churches never bothered with a saint for it. Even my own wife just shortens it to "Hart", hehehe.

[steveh]

Originally posted by Stahlsturm
I´m a history nut :-) Living in a town with a recorded history of 2000 years does that to you :-)

Not to mention somewhat overwhelming, I imagine. I enjoy history a great deal too. Europe is like a big playground for me!

Well, we get Bock twice a year here in Regensburg.

That's what I've been hearing as more common - maybe I can come over in May and stay until November!

The thing about München and Passau is that they´re the same company

That I didn't know - sort of like Augustiner München and Salzburg - Chaz, Augustiner Salzburg is outstanding Austrian beer.

Guess it´s more jealousy than dislike. *g*

I loved using Gruß Gott! in Berlin - just to get the dirty looks.

Even my own wife just shortens it to "Hart", hehehe.

I hope she doesn't expect you to grow antlers! :D My fellow German language class students voted me as having the best accent - I don't know where it came from, though - probably old movies!

S.

[fretlessman71]

Sounds like steveh and "Hartmuth" need to meet up and have several beer together! Maybe we'll just smuggle you out in an old duffel bag someday when we come to visit... :D

[steveh]

Originally posted by fretlessman71
Sounds like steveh and "Hartmuth" need to meet up and have several beer together!

Yeah - and I'm gonna run off with Sooz the Beer Gal, 'cause she can quote Kaiser Willhelm! ;)

S.

[fretlessman71]

Hmmm.... hadn't thought of that.... but hey - Hartmuth is a married man, so I'm sure he won't mind! :D

interesting how you remember her tagline with such ease....

[steveh]

Originally posted by fretlessman71
interesting how you remember her tagline with such ease....

It's an all-time popular beer quote! One I use quite often, now that you mention it! ;)

S.

But don't forget, it was Kaiser Bill that lost WW1! He must not have found that woman.

[fretlessman71]

I was referring to the title of "beer gal", actually... what do you call that? You know, you're a "moderator", I'm a "recovering abstainer" who used to be the "Happy Helper" to hopjack13.... what do you call that?

[chazwicke]

Originally posted by steveh
[B]

That I didn't know - sort of like Augustiner München and Salzburg - Chaz, Augustiner Salzburg is outstanding Austrian beer.


I've been to Salzburg twice but do not recall drinking that one. My IT guy is Austrian and occasionally he gets beers from home and he always brings one to me. My travels in Austria leave no lasting memory of a specific beer other than drinking Budvar everywhere in Wein.

[steveh]

Originally posted by fretlessman71
I was referring to the title of "beer gal", actually...

Oh, that - I had to look that up. ;)

what do you call that? You know, you're a "moderator", I'm a "recovering abstainer" who used to be the "Happy Helper" to hopjack13.... what do you call that?

Uh...title?

S.

Check your User CP/Profile...

[fretlessman71]

Originally posted by steveh
Check your User CP/Profile...
yeah, but i wanted you to do that for me.

[Bruno_78]

I haven't seen sooz post that she wants to run off with steveh though.

ON TOPIC!

I havn't been able to locate the paulaner. World Class Beverages distributes it in this area, but no one carries it. I have sent them an email trying to locate someone, but it's not looking promising.

[fretlessman71]

You're awfully close to steveh... his paint store says they're getting them in soon. Keep me posted and maybe I'll be able to get some out to the both of you.

[steveh]

Originally posted by fretlessman71
yeah, but i wanted you to do that for me.

I did -- that's why I said TITLE! ;)

Bruno's not really that close to me. You may want to try the long train ride and check Sam's, Bruno. I'm gonna check the local, big Armanetti's over the weekend, if they have new (key word) 12ers, maybe I can send you a couple bottles via overnight.

S.

Just found this (http://paulaner.com/search.php?state=IN&beverage=paulaner) list of Indiana Paulaner distributors - hassle 'em! ;-)

[Bruno_78]

I'll let you know what I come up with.

$21.50 worth of train ride to get a couple bottles isn't very feasible. Maybe a stop at G.I. would make it worth the trip.

[steveh]

Well, I just got an emergency call from my parents at the family vacation home in the U.P. (it's nowhere near the magnitude of Chaz' palace on the water - trust me) and it looks like my life-long indentured servitude continues. Seems there's some house-maintenance that needs completion and the cousins have all been recruited for manual labor.

Long story short; I'm probably not gonna get to the mammoth liquor mart this weekend - and maybee not even in time for the tasting now. :/

No, I'm sure I won't be able to find any Paulaner in the wilds of Northern Michigan - at least not very fresh Paulaner.

S.

[chazwicke]

Wonder if it is near my sisters place on the UP. Her's is about 20 miles from Rapid River. You could always visit Hereford and Hops.

[steveh]

Originally posted by chazwicke
You could always visit Hereford and Hops.

Hereford and Hops is over to the east of my family's house, in Escanaba. It's a good drive from where I'll be, and not any direct roads - a nice diversion, but I don't think I can fit it into a day-and-a-half weekend (6 hour drive to and from my place). I do have a friend in Gladstone, old home-brew club companion.

The town I'm headed for is directly north of Iron Mountain, in the west-center of the U.P. - Amasa: 3 bars and a gas station - most exotic beer in the bars? Leinenkugel. Maybe.

I'll probably hit a good liquor store I found in Green Bay, get some nice local stuff from Denmark Brewing and South Shore Brewing.

S.

[b3s]

what, you mean the thriving metropolis of marinette doesn't carry paulaner? :D or are you taking a different route...

have fun up nort der hey

[fretlessman71]

Originally posted by steveh
Well, I just got an emergency call from my parents at the family vacation home in the U.P. (it's nowhere near the magnitude of Chaz' palace on the water - trust me) and it looks like my life-long indentured servitude continues. Seems there's some house-maintenance that needs completion and the cousins have all been recruited for manual labor.

Long story short; I'm probably not gonna get to the mammoth liquor mart this weekend - and maybee not even in time for the tasting now. :/

No, I'm sure I won't be able to find any Paulaner in the wilds of Northern Michigan - at least not very fresh Paulaner.

S. steveh - check your PMs.

[steveh]

Originally posted by b3s
what, you mean the thriving metropolis of marinette doesn't carry paulaner? :D or are you taking a different route...

have fun up nort der hey

Nah, don't get near 'dere either, eh? Straight t'ru Green Bay, 'den left to Iron Mountain (right would take me to Marinette/Menominee and off my bee-line).

An' all the gomers (my word, not a Yooperism) in my neck o' the woods only drink Old Style or Strohs.

There is a small micro in Florence that has had some good brew, but his bottling schedule is hit or miss - mostly just kegs. Nicolette Brewing.

S.

[fretlessman71]

OK... inventing a new term here - beyond topic!

Here's a thought for everyone who's part of the parallel tastings, but we'd need a little help and organization to do this.

At some point down the line, we need to do a "hop comparison parallel tasting". You may have seen me postulate the idea in another thread, but I'm making an official plea here for opinions and help. I'd like to get a bunch of beers together that use a single variety of hop in their recipe - one beer per variety, please - and have a tasting of all of them at once so we can talk about similarities and differences between them. I can ask about what makes noble hops noble, but reading about it doesn't do me nearly as much good as tasting them, you know? To quote Billy Joel, "There's a new band in town, but you can't get the sound from a story in a magazine... aimed at your average teen."

As far as I can tell, we'd need some help in doing this. First, we'd have to identify beers across the country that were not only worthy of a tasting, but used a single hop. Then we'd have to eliminate duplicate hop entries and decide which one we wanted to use and for what reason.
Once we decided on which beers we were going to use for the event, we'd have to send some across country if they weren't available locally to some. At this point we'd be prepared to do this.

It might also be a good idea to pair up if possible (since there's going to be so many beers open at once on your computer desk). I know many of you are all for drinking 135 beers at once, but really, now... ;)

Let me know what you think of this idea! I'm sure this wouldn't happen for several months, but like all good events, this will take some planning to get it right the first time.

[chazwicke]

I think I recall the Brickskeller hosting a tasting like this before. I think local brewers all made special beers for the tasting. Theakston might remember this. It was a few years ago.

[fretlessman71]

I wonder if they have any bottles left.... ;)

That brings to mind another idea - maybe we ought to agree on a recipe that could benefit from several varieties of hops, let the homebrewers do their thing with a particular strain, and send 'em out. Of course, this brings in the possiblilty of failed batches... maybe it's not a good idea. But it's STILL an idea!

[b3s]

Originally posted by steveh
Nah, don't get near 'dere either, eh? Straight t'ru Green Bay, 'den left to Iron Mountain (right would take me to Marinette/Menominee and off my bee-line).

well den, doan forget to stop off and catch some crappies der while your up nort der hey ;)

fretlessman
OK... inventing a new term here - beyond topic!/

sorry about that, couldn't resist!

[b3s]

Originally posted by fretlessman71
At some point down the line, we need to do a "hop comparison parallel tasting". You may have seen me postulate the idea in another thread, but I'm making an official plea here for opinions and help. I'd like to get a bunch of beers together that use a single variety of hop in their recipe - one beer per variety, please - and have a tasting of all of them at once so we can talk about similarities and differences between them. I can ask about what makes noble hops noble, but reading about it doesn't do me nearly as much good as tasting them, you know?

i'd like to do that as well...i was starting to do that with my home brews and was considering getting a bunch of 3 gallon carboys, brewing up 9 gallons of wort in three smaller batches and using different hops, but it just seemed too cost prohibitive.

It might also be a good idea to pair up if possible (since there's going to be so many beers open at once on your computer desk). I know many of you are all for drinking 135 beers at once, but really, now... ;)

could lead to some interesting typing

[quote[Let me know what you think of this idea! I'm sure this wouldn't happen for several months, but like all good events, this will take some planning to get it right the first time. [/QUOTE]

i like the idea, i'm in

[fretlessman71]

Originally posted by b3s
sorry about that, couldn't resist!

Don't worry - it's a normal function of things (even if I DO give you guys plenty of crap about it). :D

[Stahlsturm]

Originally posted by steveh
Not to mention somewhat overwhelming, I imagine. I enjoy history a great deal too. Europe is like a big playground for me! Did you know that Regensburg was an independent state until 1806 ? Sometimes I wish we still were, hehehe.

Originally posted by steveh
That's what I've been hearing as more common - maybe I can come over in May and stay until November!Trust me, you wouldn´t want to leave in November. I´m having two australian guys over right now and they already begged for permanent asylum after 24 hours (and 3 breweries). That´s the good thing about having people over, I still learn new stuff about my own region. It makes you see things you´re familiar with for 30 or more years see from a totally different perspective.

Originally posted by steveh
That I didn't know - sort of like Augustiner München and Salzburg - Chaz, Augustiner Salzburg is outstanding Austrian beer.I´ll try to get ahold of that when I´m in Styria in 3 weeks. Maybe they have it in Murau.

Originally posted by steveh
I loved using Gruß Gott! in Berlin - just to get the dirty looks.LOL
Yeah, that greeting is not used outside Bavaria at all. Even Austrians (who ethnically are bavarians) don´t use it, they say "Servus". In Bavaria we use that as well but only with people we are already familiar with.

Originally posted by steveh
I hope she doesn't expect you to grow antlers! :D My fellow German language class students voted me as having the best accent - I don't know where it came from, though - probably old movies!

S. Why would I grow antlers ? *wonders* Accent from old movies, hum ? So you sound like a drill sergant ? *g*

[Stahlsturm]

Originally posted by fretlessman71
Sounds like steveh and "Hartmuth" need to meet up and have several beer together! Maybe we'll just smuggle you out in an old duffel bag someday when we come to visit... :D That might happen, hehehe.

[fretlessman71]

Hey - I gotta know...

1) what does *g* mean?

2) What is the translation of GruB Gott? (Sorry, don't have international characters...) And Servus?

[Stahlsturm]

Originally posted by fretlessman71
Hey - I gotta know...

1) what does *g* mean?

2) What is the translation of GruB Gott? (Sorry, don't have international characters...) And Servus?

*g* is just net talk for grinning. Since the use of emoticons is regulated so strictly around here I´m getting creative otherwise.

"Grüß Gott" translates to "greet God". Bavaria used to be a very catholic and backwards country until the mid 70s when the industrial revolution finally reached us so a lot of religious phrases are used in everyday life that are frowned upon as odd and outdated in supposedly more developed regions of Germany. If developed means being enslaved by Interbrew than God help me, let´s never get developed :-)
"Servus" is actually Latin and means "I´m your servant". It´s used as a buddy greeting in the sense of "how can I help you". I doubt many of the people who use it know (or care) about it´s initial meaning.

[fretlessman71]

Originally posted by fretlessman71
OK... inventing a new term here - beyond topic!

Here's a thought for everyone who's part of the parallel tastings, but we'd need a little help and organization to do this.

At some point down the line, we need to do a "hop comparison parallel tasting". You may have seen me postulate the idea in another thread, but I'm making an official plea here for opinions and help. I'd like to get a bunch of beers together that use a single variety of hop in their recipe - one beer per variety, please - and have a tasting of all of them at once so we can talk about similarities and differences between them. I can ask about what makes noble hops noble, but reading about it doesn't do me nearly as much good as tasting them, you know? To quote Billy Joel, "There's a new band in town, but you can't get the sound from a story in a magazine... aimed at your average teen."

As far as I can tell, we'd need some help in doing this. First, we'd have to identify beers across the country that were not only worthy of a tasting, but used a single hop. Then we'd have to eliminate duplicate hop entries and decide which one we wanted to use and for what reason.
Once we decided on which beers we were going to use for the event, we'd have to send some across country if they weren't available locally to some. At this point we'd be prepared to do this.

It might also be a good idea to pair up if possible (since there's going to be so many beers open at once on your computer desk). I know many of you are all for drinking 135 beers at once, but really, now... ;)

Let me know what you think of this idea! I'm sure this wouldn't happen for several months, but like all good events, this will take some planning to get it right the first time. Thanks Stahlstrum! Just bumping this post to the head of the line for the morning guys...

[steveh]

Originally posted by fretlessman71
(even if I DO give you guys plenty of crap about it).

'Dat would be crappie - an' I prefer the fight of the alligator walleye pike myself, B3! ;)

S.

[threecb]

It sounds like a cool idea to me.

There's a brewpub in the Philly suburbs called Sly Fox. For their 9th anniversary this year the brewer there has been doing an IPA month using a different hop in each batch. There will be 9 total with a IIPA being the final one. When this is released, all will be on tap to compare.

Let's all meet there!:D

[steveh]

Originally posted by Stahlsturm
Why would I grow antlers ? *wonders*

Hart = Hirsch = deer? ;)

Accent from old movies, hum ? So you sound like a drill sergant ? *g*

Heh, no, but close - more like the great German character actor Klaus Löwitsch, but with hoch Deutsch accents - no, really!

S.

[steveh]

Originally posted by threecb


There's a brewpub in the Philly suburbs called Sly Fox. For their 9th anniversary this year the brewer there has been doing an IPA month using a different hop in each batch. There will be 9 total with a IIPA being the final one. When this is released, all will be on tap to compare.

Let's all meet there!:D

Hmm, I still have 2 weeks vacation coming, have a friend in Harrisburg (who isn't sOOz, Bruno) I haven't seen in a while, he likes good brew too... When's the party?

More to subject, are they using one hop varietal in each beer? In other words, not blending hops for boil, finish, aroma?

S.

[Stahlsturm]

Originally posted by steveh
Hart = Hirsch = deer?

Hart means "Hirsch" ? I did not know that. Calling someone "Hirsch" is actually considered an insult in Germany.

"Hart" means "hard", "strong", "tough" and "muth" is "courage". A true warriors name :-) And my weapon of choice is the Tankard, hehehe.

[steveh]

Originally posted by Stahlsturm
Hart means "Hirsch" ? I did not know that. Calling someone "Hirsch" is actually considered an insult in Germany.

Hah! Sorry, I didn't know that - I've actually known people with Hirsch as a surname! Hart is an English synonym for deer - I was really mixing languages.

"Hart" means "hard", "strong", "tough" and "muth" is "courage". A true warriors name :-) And my weapon of choice is the Tankard, hehehe.

Ich bin Herberger -- unfortunately, not a very glamorous name - or profession. :/

S.

[Stahlsturm]

Originally posted by steveh
Ich bin Herberger -- unfortunately, not a very glamorous name - or profession. :/

"Herberger" as in "Sepp Herberger", the maker of the "Wonder of Bern" ? That´s a proud name and one that still makes the eyes of every Fußball fan shine.

My family name is rather common here in southern Germany (It´s an ancient profession that has died out by now) and thanks to Steven Spielberg "Schindler" is pretty wellknown throughout the World. If I´d get a penny every time someone asks me if I´m related to the bloke from the movie I´d be able to buy a brewery, hehehe.

[steveh]

Originally posted by Stahlsturm
"Herberger" as in "Sepp Herberger", the maker of the "Wonder of Bern" ? That´s a proud name and one that still makes the eyes of every Fußball fan shine.

Yep. Ol' Sepp is mein Onkel! :D At least, that's what I tell everyone when I get asked about him.

It's pretty funny because I really didn't know who he was until I saw his name on a comemmorative German football clock in a German tavern in Chicago (about 12 years ago). When I saw my name staring back at me from the wall, I did a little research and found out just how famous I really am!

Thing is, only Germans know him, so I have to go to Germany to be famous...not a really bad idea though! :-) Making hotel reservations is always fun!

S.

[Stahlsturm]

Originally posted by steveh
Yep. Ol' Sepp is mein Onkel! :D At least, that's what I tell everyone when I get asked about him.

It's pretty funny because I really didn't know who he was until I saw his name on a comemmorative German football clock in a German tavern in Chicago (about 12 years ago). When I saw my name staring back at me from the wall, I did a little research and found out just how famous I really am!

Thing is, only Germans know him, so I have to go to Germany to be famous...not a really bad idea though! :-) Making hotel reservations is always fun!

S.

LOL
I can imagine you get asked A LOT as well, at least when over here, hehehe. They just made a very successful movie about 1954 called "Das Wunder Von Bern" so later generations will know, hehehe.

[steveh]

Originally posted by Stahlsturm
They just made a very successful movie about 1954 called "Das Wunder Von Bern" so later generations will know, hehehe.

Very cool - http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0326429/ I'll watch for the DVD!


S.

[chazwicke]

Originally posted by threecb
It sounds like a cool idea to me.

There's a brewpub in the Philly suburbs called Sly Fox. For their 9th anniversary this year the brewer there has been doing an IPA month using a different hop in each batch. There will be 9 total with a IIPA being the final one. When this is released, all will be on tap to compare.

Let's all meet there!:D

I've been there. Good beers!

[fretlessman71]

OK... we've got a few people who sound like they think this is a good idea, so let me start by asking what hops should be represented, and by what beers. Centennial IPA sounds like it could work, but it isn't national. What is out there that IS nat'l AND uses a single hop varietal AND is decent beer?

[Beaver]

This isn't national, but Sly Fox is doing an IPA series with different hops:

http://www.slyfoxbeer.com/brewsontap/allbeer/ipaproject.html

http://www.slyfoxbeer.com/brewsontap/allbeer/index.html

[fretlessman71]

Originally posted by Beaver
This isn't national, but Sly Fox is doing an IPA series with different hops:

http://www.slyfoxbeer.com/brewsontap/allbeer/ipaproject.html

http://www.slyfoxbeer.com/brewsontap/allbeer/index.html I'm sure threecb will be happy to meet all of us there! :p

[threecb]

Originally posted by fretlessman71
I'm sure threecb will be happy to meet all of us there!

;)

[Tweek]

I could be into this. Good idea. The only flaw I see is that you guys want to use AIM, WTF? stop being a bunch of wussies and go to IRC. You all need to stop in there anyway and say hello in REAL TIME to your fellow beer enthusiasts. I know I have not been around much lately, and I will prob get booed of this thread but seriously Im in if it goes to IRC. and seriously, you guys are being bitches about IRC. come hang out with me and the few others that are there regularly.

[b3s]

actually, i was wondering why aim and not irc myself...

[fretlessman71]

I think the only reason we went to AIM is that there were enough of the original few who were interested who already had it. I don't think there's a prejudice against IRC; it just sort of happened that way. Look back in the thread; you'll see that I had even suggested it! :) Alas; there is a limit to the power I have over the realbeer.com crowd....

Good to see you on the boards again Tweek!

[chazwicke]

Yep, welcome back Tweek. I prefer AIM.

[Bruno_78]

Is IRC free?

I don't want anything to cut into my brewing budget!

[fretlessman71]

IRC is indeed free... if you do a Tweek search for mIRC, you'll find info on downloading the program and you, too, can talk to Tweek! ;)

[b3s]

irc (internet relay chat) is free -- some irc clients are not. there are lots of freeware irc clients out there, tho. i use ircii on unix (command line based), which i compile myself from sources. and yes, my knuckles drag :p

[fretlessman71]

The mIRC that Tweek gave us links to tells you that you have a 30 day trial period and then you have to send in $20. I've been logging in well after that - it tells you that you have to send in money, and then a button appears that says "continue", so I do, and it logs me right in. Crazy, eh?

[fretlessman71]

OK... back on topic:

I just picked up a few bottles of Paulaner Oktoberfest Marzen today - they expire in March of '05. I'd say that's pretty fresh! Who's got theirs; who can't find it; who's got the freshest bottle? Are we ready to do this?

[Herb Ninja]

Was Chimay ever even for a second considered for the poll, let alone the tasting? ;)

Where are the Belgian choices? Peace, HN-

[b3s]

well, for those of you using DOS, there are other options (although mirc is pretty decent):

www.xircon.com
www.dotirc.com (a .net irc)
http://tucows.mundofree.com/preview/69343.html
http://tucows.mundofree.com/preview/70709.html
http://tucows.mundofree.com/preview/169.html
http://tucows.mundofree.com/preview/171.html
http://tucows.mundofree.com/preview/172.html

[Bruno_78]

I haven't been able to find any yet, my retailer could order it, but she doesn't want to place an order until first of october. ?????

[chazwicke]

I have not yet looked. I'll find some this week. I saw other Ofests at my paint store though.

[chazwicke]

Originally posted by fretlessman71
The mIRC that Tweek gave us links to tells you that you have a 30 day trial period and then you have to send in $20. I've been logging in well after that - it tells you that you have to send in money, and then a button appears that says "continue", so I do, and it logs me right in. Crazy, eh?

Boy are you gonna be suprised when you get your bill!:D I think we should stick with AIM. More people have it and it is very simple.

[fretlessman71]

Originally posted by Bruno_78
I haven't been able to find any yet, my retailer could order it, but she doesn't want to place an order until first of october. ????? You need to pick a different paint store! Jeez...

This is a link to Paulaner distributors in your area - see what you can do! http://starbrandimports.com/distributors/indiana.html

[fretlessman71]

Originally posted by chazwicke
Boy are you gonna be suprised when you get your bill!:D I think we should stick with AIM. More people have it and it is very simple. Yeah, but I gave them your address, chaz!

[fretlessman71]

Originally posted by chazwicke
I have not yet looked. I'll find some this week. I saw other Ofests at my paint store though. I think I even saw H-P's Okto just yesterday out here.... BOY, it's weird being in Beer Country again - I can find almost everything!

[Bruno_78]

Originally posted by fretlessman71
You need to pick a different paint store! Jeez...

This is a link to Paulaner distributors in your area - see what you can do! http://starbrandimports.com/distributors/indiana.html


Yeah, I already tried that, would you believe that none of those places are anywhere near me?

[Stahlsturm]

About the IRC issue. mIRC is free. I´ve been using it since 2000 and it hijacks a browser every now and then trying to get me to pay which I ignore and it stays free.

May I suggest using a network like ZUHnet that allows Java chat as well ? It´s no big deal for me but some might want to just get into the chat by clicking a browser window instead of downloading yet another gadget.

[b3s]

i don't know about the DOS world, but there are alternative AIM clients on other platforms that combine mutliple protocols in one app (IRC, AIM, MSN, Yahoo!, etc.). Best of both worlds, that.

[Stahlsturm]

Originally posted by b3s
i don't know about the DOS world, but there are alternative AIM clients on other platforms that combine mutliple protocols in one app (IRC, AIM, MSN, Yahoo!, etc.). Best of both worlds, that.

Yeah, Trillian or Miranda. I´m on Trillian myself and very happy with it. I still think that any live chat should be done in ways that even people who unpacked and plugged their first computer yesterday can participate.

[b3s]

invariably, that would mean msn messenger :rolleyes: in which case you could probably count me out as i won't let that crap near my computer.

[Stahlsturm]

Originally posted by b3s
invariably, that would mean msn messenger :rolleyes: in which case you could probably count me out as i won't let that crap near my computer.

No, that´d mean IRC and using a network that allows javachat. That way those who know their way around can connect through an IRC client of their choice and those who don´t want to install a new gadget can just go there through an open browser.

[fretlessman71]

Yeah - there's a way to log on to AIM without actually downloading the program, IIRC. Somewhere on the site is a place where you can sort of "borrow" the program for a time, I think - AOL won't load up right now, otherwise I'd try to find a link...

[Beaver]

Originally posted by Stahlsturm
Yeah, Trillian or Miranda. I´m on Trillian myself and very happy with it. I still think that any live chat should be done in ways that even people who unpacked and plugged their first computer yesterday can participate.

You can use Gaim as well...open source.

[studentofbeer]

so far ive struck out finding paulaner oktoberfest too. time to turn up the heat on my search. ive tried the 3 places close by, so it's time to make some calls i guess.

[Herb Ninja]

Well I know that I probably couldn't get paulaner oktoberfest here....

I'm not sure of how rare it is in the continental united states...

I don't use AIM, or MSN, nowdays I only use yahoo, if it was Yahoo Messenger id be there... but honestly I don't have much to add so it doesn't matter to me much.

I would recommend going with something reasonably complex and reasonably widely distributed, and maybe its just my personal bias but Chimay springs to mind.... and if I can get it here I would imagine you could get around a large part of the continental U.S.?
Peace, HN

[steveh]

Originally posted by Bruno_78
I haven't been able to find any yet, my retailer could order it, but she doesn't want to place an order until first of october. ?????

Uh...sounds like said retailer needs a little lesson in beer marketing.

Herb, the tastings are in no way prejudiced away from Belgian beer. Since they're becoming pretty popular, I think there will be plenty of time in the future to cover most of the beer bases.

S.

[steveh]

I got my hands on some new Paulaner Okto yesterday, so I'm set. Also acquired: Summit's Okto and Flying Dog Dogtoberfest, both pretty tasty. Also seen Goose Island's and Christian Moerlein! Blast from the past.

Interesting comment by the paint store, beer stocker that Paulaner Okto isn't a big seller. Hmm.

S.

[davesarman]

Originally posted by steveh
I got my hands on some new Paulaner Okto yesterday, so I'm set. Also acquired: Summit's Okto and Flying Dog Dogtoberfest, both pretty tasty. Also seen Goose Island's and Christian Moerlein! Blast from the past.

Interesting comment by the paint store, beer stocker that Paulaner Okto isn't a big seller. Hmm.

S.


I picked up Summit's and Schell's O-fest beers this weekend. I thought Schell's was the better of the 2, a bit darker, maltier and creamier. Summit's was a bit lighter in color and body, but still quite tasty. I noticed the Summit's was labeled as "Marzen Style". Does that mean lighter than traditional O-fest? Steve, I would recommend getting some of the Schell's O-fest, I'd be interested to hear your comments on it. If you can't get it, I'd be more than happy to send some your way.

[fretlessman71]

I read somewhere that Marzen and Oktoberfest were really two names for the same beer - one name was for when they brewed it, and the other was when they drank it - is this right? The Paulaner Okto is called an Oktoberfest Marzen.

[steveh]

Originally posted by davesarman
I noticed the Summit's was labeled as "Marzen Style". Does that mean lighter than traditional O-fest?

No, Märzen doesn't mean lighter than tradition, in fact - most of the beer you'd see at the Munich Fest is very light in color, yet still malty these days.

I'm repeating myself in the same thread, but The tradition of Märzen Bier is that it is brewed in März - March; in the past, the last month of brewing before pollen and other contaminates filled the Spring and Summer air and could ruin a beer being brewed. The Märzen was brewed heartier to last in lagering caves throughout the season and finished off just as the first batch of Autumn beer was available.

So yes, it's called "Märzen," but because it was brewed in März - not because it was to be consumed then. and really, Märzen is more of a technique than a specific style as any beer brewed in March, in days of old, could be considered a Märzen - even before the first Oktoberfest. Until Sedelmayer introduced his amber beer at the Oktoberfest in 1872, the beers served were Dunkel style.

I wonder if some of the breweries actually lager their beers longer to be able to tag Märzen on them?

I've had the Schell Okto in the past, and was never terribly thrilled by it - not bad, just that there were better available. It's that good this year, huh?

AFA the Summit and colors of Oktos go, I've seen a wide range of different shades this year, just as in the past. Sprecher has been the darkest so far, with Sam Adams just behind it. The Summit is very close in shade to the Paulaner, if I recall right. Can anyone report on fresh H-P? Spaten seems to be the brown/bronze color that it usually is.

S.

Oh, and Fret - look closely, the Paulaner label reads "Märzen Amber - or Amber Märzen." This is to separate it from the lighter fest available in Germany.

[fretlessman71]

Originally posted by steveh
Oh, and Fret - look closely, the Paulaner label reads "Märzen Amber - or Amber Märzen." This is to separate it from the lighter fest available in Germany.
Ahh, I see. Does this translate to a higher ABV in this case? Why would they serve a lighter version in Germany? So they could drink more of them at a sitting?

[steveh]

Originally posted by fretlessman71
Ahh, I see. Does this translate to a higher ABV in this case? Why would they serve a lighter version in Germany? So they could drink more of them at a sitting?

No, that's just the weirdest part, the newer, lighter colored stuff is just as high in ABV, and tasty. My theory is that the breweries finally decided to stop using the more expensive Munich or Vienna malts in the beers to be sloppily served to drunken revelers who don't care to take the time to appreciate a finely crafted brew - thus keeping costs down.

While not as toasty or sweet flavored, it's still good beer - all barley - but probably only 2 row.

S.

[fretlessman71]

I thought that 2 row was the more prized malt for brewing... maybe it makes a better ale than a lager...?

[davesarman]

Originally posted by steveh
I've had the Schell Okto in the past, and was never terribly thrilled by it - not bad, just that there were better available. It's that good this year, huh?


I've felt the same way about the Schell's O-fest in the past as well, but when I had it this weekend, it very well seemed reformulated to me. And the fact that it was fresh I'm sure helped too. They've redone the packaging (not that that has anything to do with the taste of the beer) which I think looks better too. I could be wrong, but I think it's a much better beer this year than it used to be.

[steveh]

Originally posted by fretlessman71
I thought that 2 row was the more prized malt for brewing... maybe it makes a better ale than a lager...?

Yeah, it's more prized than 6 row, but not as expensive as specialty malts such as Munich or Vienna (or Special B, Marris Otter - etc.).

I don't know if anyone uses 6 row any more, do they? Maybe Milwaukee's Best?

S.

[fretlessman71]

Steveh, your last 2 posts are confusing me.... "probably only 2 row" led me to believe that they usually use 6 row for their beer. What gives?

[Stodbrew]

Originally posted by steveh
Yeah, it's more prized than 6 row, but not as expensive as specialty malts such as Munich or Vienna (or Special B, Marris Otter - etc.).

I don't know if anyone uses 6 row any more, do they? Maybe Milwaukee's Best?

S.


Most of the big boys use 6-row, still. I know for a fact that A-B does. There are more enzymes in 6-row, thus helping to convert all that pesky rice.

[steveh]

Originally posted by fretlessman71
Steveh, your last 2 posts are confusing me.... "probably only 2 row" led me to believe that they usually use 6 row for their beer. What gives?

C'mon brew-boy!! ;) I'm just saying that they are probably using only the base malts with a little more added for body in this new fest - no specialty malts as may be used in the Paulaner Amber Märzen in your fridge right now. The new style fest is just about the same color as a Munich Helles, but just a little maltier and more full-bodied, but not quite a Helles Bock.

The Paulaner we'll be tasting has 2 row for its base recipe, then Munich and possibly crystal added for richer flavor and body - not to mention color.

So what I'm saying is that they probably use the same recipe, but substitute the specialty malts for more 2 row to get the body they want, at less cost.

See Stod's post about "those" using 6 row these days...

S.

[fretlessman71]

Well, I figured as much, but I just wasn't sure. I was thinking of specialty malts as being able to fit into either the 2 row or the 6 row category. I guess when you're talking about 2 or 6 row, you're talking about something that hasn't been roasted/altered from its original state... is that about right?

[chazwicke]

I have heard over the years that Oktoberfest beer costs more in Germany and because it does there is more Alchohol. That if you are paying more for beer there has to be a reason. Anyone else hear this before. I am finanlly starting to get excited about Oktoberfest season now that Labor Day is past. Even though it is still hot here for the next month or so. But you will not catch me wearing white now that Labor Day has past! JK:D

[Bruno_78]

aren't the munich and vienna malts made from 6-row?

[steveh]

Originally posted by Bruno_78
aren't the munich and vienna malts made from 6-row?

According to Korzonas, virtually all European malt is 2 row. While he doesn't come out and say 2 row is best for brewing, he has a chart that compares characteristics and brewing implications. Aside from price, 2 row is the hands down winner AFA protein levels, starch percentage, haze likelihood, husk percentage, and enzymee levels.

As Stod said, with high protein and enzyme levels in base malt, as 6 row has, you must either add adjuncts with less of both (corn, rice), or adapt a more complicated mashing schedule - which the Germans seem to have perfected - to get a cleaner tasting, clearer beer.

S.

[kevin]

How do you get set up with the AIM?

[fretlessman71]

Go to www.aol.com and look for AOL Instant Messenger. You'll have to download it.

[steveh]

Originally posted by chazwicke
That if you are paying more for beer there has to be a reason. Anyone else hear this before.

According to the Beer Judge Certification Program Style Guides: German beer tax law limits the OG of the style at 14°P since it is a vollbier, although American versions can be stronger.

Not sure of a complete translation on "Vollbier," Voll being Full or Complete - even Massive, you'd think that would cry out for a high gravity just by definition. Maybe Stahlsturm can give some insight.

S.

[Stahlsturm]

Originally posted by steveh
Maybe Stahlsturm can give some insight.

*dodges ball*

"Vollbier" translates to "Full Beer". The term has it´s origns in taxation. Beer (and all other alcohol) is taxed and beer is divided in these following categories:

[QUOTE]- "Einfachbier" mit einer Stammwürze unter 7%
- "Schankbier" mit einer Stammwürze ab 7% bis unter 11%
- "Vollbier" mit einer Stammwürze ab 11% bis unter 16%
- "Starkbier" ab einer Stammwürze von mindestens 16%
- "Mischbier" Biere mit Zusätzen von Cola, Zitronen- und Orangensprudeln (Radler und Alster) sowie exotischen Beigaben wie Tequila oder Energiegetränken[QUOTE]

I tried to find a translation for "Stammwürze" but couldn´t come up with anything that made sense. Maybe whatever it is you refer to as "OG" (damn american abbravations :P) is the actual translation.

[steveh]

Originally posted by Stahlsturm
I tried to find a translation for "Stammwürze" but couldn´t come up with anything that made sense. Maybe whatever it is you refer to as "OG" (damn american abbravations :P) is the actual translation.

Catches said dodged ball

Stammwürze = Original Wort. Yeah, probably O.G. = Original Gravity.

But you could'a translated some of the other stuff, Energiegetränken? Hah - isn't that the same as Starkbier? ;)

S.

[Stahlsturm]

Originally posted by Stahlsturm

- "Mischbier" Biere mit Zusätzen von Cola, Zitronen- und Orangensprudeln (Radler und Alster) sowie exotischen Beigaben wie Tequila oder Energiegetränken

- "Mixed Beers"; Beer with additions of coke, zitrus or orange lemonade as well as exotic ingredients such as Tequila or Energy drinks.

According to the bavarian beer purification law real beer can only be brewed from 4 ingredients, water, hopps, malt and barley. Wheat and rye are acceptable substitutes for barley but if it contains anything else it is "Mixed beer". Which was illegal to brew and sell in Germany until the highest court of the EC forced an opening of the german market and now we´re flooded with all these interbrew abominations. If you ask me, Germany should´ve left the EC at that point.

[steveh]

Originally posted by Stahlsturm
According to the bavarian beer purification law real beer can only be brewed from 4 ingredients, water, hopps, malt and barley.

It's water, malt, hops, and yeast - but I'm picking nits.

Wheat and rye are acceptable substitutes for barley but if it contains anything else it is "Mixed beer. Which was illegal to brew and sell in Germany until the highest court of the EC forced an opening of the german market...

But "mixed beer" such as Radler and Diesel aren't "brewed" that way, the lemonade or cola is added afterward - and I saw this being done in the early 90s, long before any EC hands in the pot.

Aside from the obvious U.S. swill attempting inroads to Germany, what others are you calling abominations?

S.

[Stahlsturm]

Originally posted by steveh
It's water, malt, hops, and yeast - but I'm picking nits.The original actually just names water, hops and malt. Cultivated yeast didn´t exist back then but was allowed later.

But "mixed beer" such as Radler and Diesel aren't "brewed" that way, the lemonade or cola is added afterward - and I saw this being done in the early 90s, long before any EC hands in the pot. The "Mixed Beer" refers to packaging I think. Stuff as "Radler" was only mixed on location but not sold readily mixed. Now it is and they´re mixing everything these days and I´m getting sick just thinking of it...

Aside from the obvious U.S. swill attempting inroads to Germany, what others are you calling abominations? S. I guess I should´ve put "abominations" in quotations, hehehe. But I´m mostly referring to all those mixes I mentioned above.

[steveh]

Originally posted by Stahlsturm
The original actually just names water, hops and malt. Cultivated yeast didn´t exist back then but was allowed later.

Okay, I'll give you that - but I don't think the 'gebot made any provisions for un-malted barley (or wheat, or rye). That's why we figured Guinness tasted a bit different in Munich, not as roasted - no (unmalted) roasted barley. Though, it's probably allowed these days I suppose.

I guess I should´ve put "abominations" in quotations, hehehe. But I´m mostly referring to all those mixes I mentioned above.

Well, I've mentioned it here before; the first time I saw some woman pouring cola into her beer I made enough of a sour face to make her whole table laugh! Though, I have been known to enjoy a Radler once in a while - rather have Pils, though.

S.

[fretlessman71]

Cola and BEER??!?!?!?!!?!? The humanity.... :eek:

[chazwicke]

The Horror, The Horror....


Shandy's have been around for a long time and I recall an Aussie visitor back in the 1970s saying they poured soda in beer for breakfast.

Remember that God awful Hop'n Gator made by Pittsburgh Brewing. It was flavored beer and was terrible.

[fretlessman71]

I heard that Shandys were the "appropriate" drink to go along with fish & chips in London. A friend of mine got to try some with her food one day and very nearly threw up.... :rolleyes:

[chazwicke]

I usually don't add anything to my beer with the possible exception of raspberry syrup to a Berlinner Wiesse.

[chazwicke]

Originally posted by fretlessman71
I heard that Shandys were the "appropriate" drink to go along with fish & chips in London. A friend of mine got to try some with her food one day and very nearly threw up.... :rolleyes:

I've seen them over the years but have never sampled one. Hop'n Gator would probably be the closest thing that I have tasted and it was foul.

[fretlessman71]

What's the name for the drink with 3 parts Belgian Wit and 1 part OJ? I tried that, and it was at least drinkable... needed more Wit, though. ;)

[chazwicke]

Fret, Your back in 2nd place having just passed Steveh. Not that I'm counting. :D

[Herb Ninja]

Originally posted by fretlessman71
Cola and BEER??!?!?!?!!?!? The humanity....

I've had it...

I hope you can never say the same....

Had it in Belgium, on the menu it looked like a rare cola beer, was actually coke mixed with beer...

Won't be making that mistake again. ;) Peace, HN-

[fretlessman71]

Originally posted by chazwicke
Fret, Your back in 2nd place having just passed Steveh. Not that I'm counting. Great... just great... first I send him an exploding bottle of beer, THEN I pass him in the post count... I dare say I've made an enemy today!

And why WOULD you be counting? I'm 450 posts behind you! ;)

[chazwicke]

I once sent him a package that one of the bottles had broken. Only time I ever had one break. Anyway I sent him some replacements to make up for it. And the last beer I sent him had a really neat package. Look forward to his review on that rare beer after cold weather sets in. whose counting?

[b3s]

whenever i see a discussion on the 'gebot, i have to post the obligatory counter-opinion link :D

http://www.xs4all.nl/~patto1ro/reinheit.htm

[Stahlsturm]

Originally posted by b3s
whenever i see a discussion on the 'gebot, i have to post the obligatory counter-opinion link :D

http://www.xs4all.nl/~patto1ro/reinheit.htm

Interesting article. It´s certainly true that there´s a LOT of total crap being brewed here in Germany and even in Bavaria. I also agree that it doesn´t make any sense to introduce a german law everywhere else in the EC. I´m a very critical EC citizen anyways. While it´s certainly a good thing that Europe is working together now, the central buerocrazy (no typo...) in Bruxelles is totally out of control. We need european diversity. Especially in our glasses and on our plates.

On the other hand the author sounds like he´s been rejected one too many times and grew very bitter over it.

[Stahlsturm]

On a much more on topic note, I saw the PAULANER OKTOBERFESTBIER in one of the local supermarkets yesterday so in case that´s still the brew of choice for the testing I´ll be around tonight.

[fretlessman71]

You bet it is! I think we figured out that you're 7 hours ahead of those of us on the east coast... so that makes it 2300 hours for you on Saturday 11 September. I've got my bottle all chilled up for the special occasion - hope to see you there!

For anyone who wants to join, please post your AIM username on this board about an hour before the slated time, so we can invite you to the chat room. See you there!

[Stahlsturm]

Originally posted by fretlessman71
You bet it is! I think we figured out that you're 7 hours ahead of those of us on the east coast...

Actually CET is only 6 hours ahead of EST so it´s 22:00 for me. Since I have to buy an entire case of that Paulaner stuff (= ~ 20 pints) I might bring my wife in as well.

By the time it starts I´m probably at my 10th pint already so don´t mind if my typing is a bit off, hehehe.

[fretlessman71]

Just as long as you follow the rules, don't interrupt anyone, and keep your feet on the floor, young man! :D

[Stahlsturm]

Originally posted by fretlessman71
Just as long as you follow the rules, don't interrupt anyone, and keep your feet on the floor, young man!

Rules...? What are rules...? Me not understand. :D I wish I was a young man still...

[b3s]

Originally posted by Stahlsturm
Actually CET is only 6 hours ahead of EST so it�s 22:00 for me. Since I have to buy an entire case of that Paulaner stuff (= ~ 20 pints) I might bring my wife in as well.

By the time it starts I�m probably at my 10th pint already so don�t mind if my typing is a bit off, hehehe.

but it's not EST, it is EDT -- damn daylight savings time...how can it be a savings if we don't get interest?

[Stahlsturm]

Originally posted by b3s
but it's not EST, it is EDT -- damn daylight savings time...how can it be a savings if we don't get interest?

We have "Sommerzeit" as well. Same thing, still just 6 hours difference. I think there´s a week each in April and October or whenever they switch around where it´s 7 hours difference but most of the year it´s just 6.

Interest ? LOL Have you been looking at your bank account lately ? You´re not getting any interest there either :P

[chazwicke]

Well then Fret, Would you please post the times for all timezones and the rules again. And I would recommend that everyone have at least 3 bottles for sampling. We went through the first one rather quickly last time.

[danno]

Fret, Saturday is still up in the air, but invite me anyways please...

mrdannomn

[fretlessman71]

THIS IS A VERY LONG POST - PLEASE BE PATIENT AND READ THROUGH IT CAREFULLY IF YOU PLAN TO ATTEND THIS SATURDAY!

OK... here goes.... for us USAans, just count the time zones from left to right: PDT, 1; MDT, 2; CDT, 3; and EDT, 4. That's your time in the afternoon this coming Saturday. If you're not sure, or you live somewhere outside the country, visit http://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/ to determine how far ahead or behind you need to be in order to be there with us.

Three bottles is a good limit; however, if there are those of you like me who are LIGHTWEIGHTS (one bottle of Oktoberfest had me eating everything in sight last night and wobbling the whole way to the bathroom), there's no need to have more than you choose. One bottle is enough for me (especially because I tend to work weekend evenings on a regular basis, and few things are worse than a drunk bass player).

And now, Here Are The Rules We Must Follow:

1) We will establish a "moderator" and a "head taster". Last time that ended up being myself and steveh, respectively. I sort of organized the tasting, asked pointed questions regarding the brew (almost as an interviewer would), and steveh walked us through what he was doing, what he was looking for, how to tell if this was okay for the style, and what might be different within the style from brew to brew. I see no reason not to "share the wealth" and let others take these roles, and pick someone new to do it each time. If no one wants to do one of them, I'll certainly volunteer for the post.

2) When someone has something important to say (meaning more important than just commenting on the beer, and something you want to make sure everyone reads), they are asked to first type in "My turn, please..." OR "MTP" (which was a source of confusion before I knew what it stood for!). When you see this appear, please finish your thought quickly if you're just about to type something, and wait for that person's comment. Be patient; some of us don't type at 154 words per minute!

3) If you have something specific to say to another tasting participant, and it looks like it's going to entail a conversation in and of itself, PLEASE do this with IMs instead of using the chat room - it's confusing enough with 15-20 people in there. You can have your private conversation and participate in the room at the same time - makes life much easier.

4) Please remember that there are those of us here (myself NOT included) that are expert tasters, including but not limited to steveh, chaz, and stodbrew. Please make certain to give these people ample time to make their points regarding the beer, as I am sure they will always have something useful to say.

5) If you start getting beligerent, we'll boot you and shun you from the boards, you stupid drunk b!$@h m@^&$r f@$#%r. ;) (We're only half-kidding here, you know... heeheehee...)

6) Remember that the purpose here is to learn something about what goes into the making of a good beer, what makes them taste the way they do, and ways to describe the differences besides "Yep, that's pretty good" and "Nope, don't like that stuff". Information is knowledge, and knowledge is POWER!!!! BEER DRINKERS UNITE!!!!

As stated, if you want in, please post here LESS THAN ONE HOUR BEFORE THE TASTING and say so, along with your AIM username. I'll be checking this thread and see who's waiting in the wings to join us... and all are welcome. If you were there the last time, I'm sure you're saved on someone's computer - just IM someone on your buddy list and let 'em know you're there. We'll get you in! See you there!

[chazwicke]

Just got back from the paint store. My sixer of Paulaner was just off the truck. They just got it in less than an hour before I got there.

[Bruno_78]

Due to a special delivery from steveh, I now have my oktoberfest for saturdays tasting. Thanks steve.

[b3s]

by sheer coincidence, i just got back from the paint store, too! fresh 6-pack of paulaner amongst other things :)

[steveh]

Originally posted by Bruno_78
Due to a special delivery from steveh, I now have my oktoberfest for saturdays tasting. Thanks steve.

Yaay. I was just gonna check the tracking site, I assume they were all in one piece - in Chaz' fancy safety crate? ;)

S.

[steveh]

Originally posted by Stahlsturm
Since I have to buy an entire case of that Paulaner stuff (= ~ 20 pints)...By the time it starts I´m probably at my 10th pint already so don´t mind if my typing is a bit off, hehehe.

I know you're probably joshing here Herr Sturmer, but let's be sure to get this straight - this is not a swilling contest, to see how much we can drink - but an appreciation event. As Fret says, we'll sample and enjoy - take the time to discuss why this certain style of beer is different or similar to others. Talk of flavor and aroma profiles and then shock everyone by breaking the news that it's actually a lager this time...oops. Blew that surprise. ;)

S.

BTW - Hart, can you tell if the Paulaner you have available is amber, or the lighter version of their Oktoberfest?

[skahtboi]

D'oh!!! I gotta get to the paint store and pick some up!!!!

[chazwicke]

Originally posted by steveh
Yaay. - in Chaz' fancy safety crate?

S.

I've got a couple beers I'm gonna send to Fret. I guess we need to brake another printer at the office so I can get another one. :D

[Bruno_78]

Yep, all were in tact.

Chaz, anything you want from this regoin? We can send this thing back from where it came! It'll be the revolving beer box.

[Bruno_78]

Oh, well, sorry chaz, I forgot it's already promised back towards steve's direction.

[Stahlsturm]

Originally posted by steveh
I know you're probably joshing here Herr Sturmer, but let's be sure to get this straight - this is not a swilling contest, to see how much we can drink - but an appreciation event. And who says I can´t appreciate my beer that way ? *g* I can tell from experience that it´s important to have at least 5 pints of something before you can really tell how worthy a brew really is.

As Fret says, we'll sample and enjoy - take the time to discuss why this certain style of beer is different or similar to others. Talk of flavor and aroma profiles and then shock everyone by breaking the news that it's actually a lager this time...oops. Blew that surprise. ;)Hehehe.

BTW - Hart, can you tell if the Paulaner you have available is amber, or the lighter version of their Oktoberfest? I´m at work right now so I can´t look it up. I only looked at it briefly to check that it was Paulaner Oktoberfestbier. I have a few chilling now and I might have some at our BBQ tonight to drink myself warm. If it´s good I´ll probably end up having to buy another case on Saturday morning. Good thing I´m a few hours ahead, it´ll chill fine until 22:00.

[Stahlsturm]

Originally posted by fretlessman71
Three bottles is a good limit; however, if there are those of you like me who are LIGHTWEIGHTS (one bottle of Oktoberfest had me eating everything in sight last night and wobbling the whole way to the bathroom), there's no need to have more than you choose. One bottle is enough for me (especially because I tend to work weekend evenings on a regular basis, and few things are worse than a drunk bass player).

:D
You´d be suffering in Bavaria, hehehe. Where do you play bass ?

[fretlessman71]

I'm in Colorado - I get to play all over the place. Concerts, weddings, bar mitzvahs, corporate parties, weekend warrior gigs, you name it - I've probably played for it. I make a point not to have more than one beer before I go on stage, and it had better be more than a few hours before the baton drops. During a show, if it's going well, I might order a brew, but it doesn't happen very often. Tomorrow I have rehearsal from 12 - 2 pm with Jennifer Lane ( www.jenniferlaneonline.com , and no, you won't see me in any of the photos - they're old), and then from 4-8 with Fourth Estate - no website; we don't play often enough. Gonna be a loooooong day....

[Stahlsturm]

I see. Jennifer Lane sounds quite neat to me. I like Country and Classic Rock quite a bit although I started out as a Heavy Metal purist :D

[steveh]

Originally posted by Stahlsturm
I can tell from experience that it´s important to have at least 5 pints of something before you can really tell how worthy a brew really is.

5 Pints of Spudweiser and I'd be losing my lunch...and breakfast, and dinner...
I can tell right off if I'm gonna like a beer or not - then I think about multiples!

I´m at work right now so I can´t look it up. I only looked at it briefly to check that it was Paulaner Oktoberfestbier.

It'll be interesting to see if we have the same brew.

S.

[steveh]

Originally posted by fretlessman71 Tomorrow I have rehearsal from 12 - 2 pm with Jennifer Lane ( www.jenniferlaneonline.com

Looks like a sweet gig. If you get the chance, have a talk with Mr. Thoroughgood about his friend Bud Weiser... ;)

Jack can stay, Bud's gotta go!

S.

[brewmonkey]

Sorry folks, I will not be able to participate in this one either.

[steveh]

Originally posted by brewmonkey
Sorry folks, I will not be able to participate in this one either.

Sorry to hear it, your input will be missed.

S.

[chazwicke]

Do we have any new people attending? Fret, maybe you could post everyone's AIM screen name with their name here on the boards so we know who is who.

[fretlessman71]

My feeling on this is as follows - I may have mentioned it before, but I'll say it again...

In order to avoid confusion, and to avoid me having to go through what is now about 15 pages of posts, I'd like everyone who wants to participate, but didn't get to join us last time, to post their screen name here LESS THAN ONE HOUR BEFORE START TIME. This way, there's less weeding through, less of a feeling that we missed someone who really wanted to be included, and a certainty that this person is active on their computer at that moment and ready to go. I know we're going to have a few newcomers tomorrow afternoon, so if you're interested, please go back a page or two and READ THE RULES. There's going to be more than 20 people in that chat room, and if we don't adhere to some guidelines it's going to be a fustercluck.... :rolleyes:

Hey steveh - what's the proper serving temp for Paulaner Okto? In other words, about how long before the start should we take our bottles out of the fridge?

[steveh]

Originally posted by fretlessman71
Hey steveh - what's the proper serving temp for Paulaner Okto? In other words, about how long before the start should we take our bottles out of the fridge?

I would say between 40 and 50 degrees (F). I've taken them out of the fridge, let 'em sit for about 5-10 minutes and sampled, but the flavor still builds with more warming. I was just thinking how interesting it might be to try one at true room temp, but the chilling is refreshing.

S.

Fustercluck - har, I'm gonna use that alongside Charlie Foxtrot.

[fretlessman71]

REALBEER NAME - AIM USERNAME

Chazwicke - our man chuck
Steveh - steveh44@mac.com
Bruno_78 - billRJimerson
B3s - bsturg3n
Staronstage - Capt Honor 1st
Jinja - Capt Honor 1st
Corysdad - corsdad0616
Studentofbeer - generalfactotum
Threecb - threecb3
Brewdog - brewdog31415
Jeff - kubiak1979

If you're not on the list, and your AIM name is different than it is here, add yours on - I'm saving this and will post it an hour or so before tasting begins each session. Sound good?

[corysdad]

Ok, Wife just called, said she has 6 Paulaner Okto's in hand. So I'm ready. Should be able to be there at 3pm tomorrow central time. Are we going to get an invite like last time?

[Stodbrew]

Unfortunately, as it turns out, I won't be able to make it this week, either. Due to a piece of s**t laptop that stopped working, as well as the fact that I have to go to the in-laws this weekend. I'm bummed I won't be able to make it this time, as it is great fun. Definitely next time, though.

[davesarman]

I unfortuately missed the first one due to a sick child and will miss this one because I will be at the Autumn Brew Review. But I wanted to say this is a great idea and if it goes well, I'd like to participate in any future tastings.

[steveh]

Originally posted by corysdad
Are we going to get an invite like last time?

Yeah, it 'da only way to get connected!

Sorry you can't make it either Stod (let alone everyone else who can't make it), more good insight to be missed. If you got your hands on some Paulaner, maybe you can give us a review later?

S.

[chazwicke]

Yep, Stod's input will be missed.

[threecb]

I've had a REALLY busy week this week, but I'm gonna scout for some of the Ofest tonight/tomorrow AM and should be in on the fun.

I'll look for ya'll online...er...as opposed to this online.

[Stodbrew]

Originally posted by steveh
Yeah, it 'da only way to get connected!

Sorry you can't make it either Stod (let alone everyone else who can't make it), more good insight to be missed. If you got your hands on some Paulaner, maybe you can give us a review later?

S.



Yeah, I'm definitely bummed. I already have the beer, just waiting for this occasion. I will give it a taste soon and give a review of it, too.

[b3s]

after enjoying 2 litres of paulaner oktoberfest at, of all places, denver's oktoberfest this evening i eagerly look forward to a learned dissertation on what it was i was tasting :) sorry that stod won't be there, but perhaps he'll do a tasting and post (when he is online again) his thoughts here?

[fretlessman71]

I'll be very curious to see how you feel the bottled variety differs from the "fresh-from-the-tap" taste. Were you there for the tapping of the first keg?

I JUST GOT BACK from a reeeeeeaaaaaaaly loooong (but very good) rhsl, and I am pooped. So now that I'm done putting steveh, chaz, and bruno_78 in their place for dissing the newbie moderator (you'll just have to ask them about it), I'm going to hose myself off and head to bed. Remind me to tell an interesting story regarding St. Pauli Girl sometime tomorrow afternoon!

[chazwicke]

Hey, at least you're willing to do it. I've considered it before but being a figurehead i think i already have a heavy load of responsibility.

[fretlessman71]

Emphasis on the "heavy load" part, no doubt... ;)

I hope you weren't too offended from before; it just seemed like the perfect response. I only wish I could have seen your faces as you logged in this morning.....

[chazwicke]

Wise guy!!!

Yeah it was pretty funny. ;)

[BrewDog]

Sorry, guys, I won't be able to make it either this afternoon. I enjoyed the last one very much, and was looking forward to this one too.

[Bruno_78]

Originally posted by fretlessman71
Emphasis on the "heavy load" part, no doubt... ;)

I hope you weren't too offended from before; it just seemed like the perfect response. I only wish I could have seen your faces as you logged in this morning.....

It actually took me a second to figure out what was going on. It was early.

[b3s]

Originally posted by fretlessman71
I'll be very curious to see how you feel the bottled variety differs from the "fresh-from-the-tap" taste. Were you there for the tapping of the first keg?


why yes i was :)

[studentofbeer]

couldnt find the beer anywhere near me, so i wont be making it today :mad:

at least i know i can get PU for next time :-/

[fretlessman71]

It never occurred to me that this beer would be so difficult to find for many of us! Maybe this wasn't the best choice for a tasting... I think I had it easier because Paulaner's main US distributorship (or something like that) is in Denver. Oh well...

Steveh, did you ever find that saved chat from the first tasting? We got to find a way to post that...

[chazwicke]

even if you can't find the beer, drop on by. It'll be fun.

[fretlessman71]

FINAL REMINDER - IF YOU WISH TO BE INCLUDED IN THE TASTING, AND YOU WEREN'T THERE LAST TIME, PLEASE SIGN IN HERE WITH YOUR AOL USERNAME IN THE NEXT 60 MINUTES SO YOU CAN BE INVITED IN!

There's a list of who's who about a page back - feel free to print it out so you know who's dissing your taste in beer. :D

[Bruno_78]

No need to yell.

[steveh]

Where is everyone? I'm thirtsy.

BTW Fret, tried another Dogtoberfest last night and found it very good again. I also had a Goose Island - not as roasty as it has been. But then I had a Paulaner - boy did the melanoidin stand out.

S.

[staronstage]

You're appearing on our AIM buddy lists but we can't IM you - our messages get rejected. Are you blowing us off? :)

Can you IM any of us? SOS and Jinja are using Capt Honor 1st.

Jinja Out

[chazwicke]

Well tasting #2 is in the bag. It was a great time. thanks to all those who participated. There will be a transcript posted at http://beerclub.homestead.com/realbeer/index.html
later. And Thanks Fret for doing the honors and arranging these tastings.

[steveh]

Originally posted by chazwicke
Well tasting #2 is in the bag.

Who's in the bag? ;) Sorry Chaz - just kiddin'! Hey, where was Herr Sturmer? I was hoping to hear about Paulaner Okto fresh from Bavaria!

S.

[fretlessman71]

Sorry to scare everyone! Thanks for waiting, and thanks for participating! Next one will be Sept. 25 - we're doing Pilsner Urquell. Be sure to get a NON-LIGHTSTRUCK BOTTLE for the showdown!

[b3s]

the tasting was awesome...the insights from steveh and chaz were great. i highly reccommend that folks get involved with this, as it was not only an excellent social gathering, but some insight into the tasting of beer that you might not get normally. steveh's comments WRT the malts and the brewing process were very beneficial.

[corysdad]

Yes,Yes,Yes a great time for sure, very insightful. I have always liked full flavor beers, but never had anyone to share with. Since you guys have been leting me hang around here I've jumped in with both feet, brewing my own and trying many new styles. I also have to thank my wonderful wife for making the 70 mile round trip to buy the beer for the tasting.
Sure would be nice to sit around a table some time and share tasting notes with everyone. Maybe some day...
Thanks again. Looking forward to next time, even if it is tasting PU.