Weird local beer/alcohol laws....

[fretlessman71]

In Tennessee you aren't allowed to sell beer over 6% abv in a "beer store". YOu have to sell it over in a "liquor store," which can't be the same esablishment, but it CAN be the same building, owned by the same company, and they can be right next door to each other. :confused:

In Colorado, grocery stores aren't allowed to sell alcohol over 3.2% abv, so beer companies take their stuff and cook it down to be sold at grocery stores there. You also can't buy reg. alcohol on Sunday, but you can buy the 3.2% stuff. Never made sense to me....

[Theakston]

Crazy!
And I thought it was bad being treated like I was an alcoholic this weekend in New York City for asking for a bloody mary with my brunch. No alcohol until noon on Sunday. How come on the only day you are likely to want one you can't get one?

[toneyc]

Puritanism. The haunting fear that someone, somewhere, may be having fun. -H. L. Mencken

[Theakston]

A good article on an effort to gain one very small concession from the ridiculous beer laws in Pennsylvania:

http://www.philly.com/mld/inquirer/5786647.htm

[fuji6100]

I live in Georgia where similar alcohol limit laws are in effect. A few weeks ago I read somewhere (can't remember where) that the bill that restricted the alcohol content was up for review and was being met with a lot of opposition. I'm hoping that within the next year that Georgia will be free of the 6% limit.

Until then I'll keep brewing my homebrews strong and enjoying them.

[fretlessman71]

I can't seem to find anyone who can give me a reason for the 6% cutoff, except for the fact that they're taxed differently. Why should that mean that they have to be sold in different buildings? Maybe the lawmakers figured that if they weren't smart enough to do the math in one proprietorship, nobody else was, either... after all, THEY were ELECTED, damnit... they MUST be smarter then we are! :rolleyes:

As for Pennsylvania, aren't they pretty corrupt in the legislature anyway? Seems like I hear more about that state when it comes to their lawmakers...

[Guy Sajer, FS]

I live in New Orleans. You can have a drink (bar, store, grocery, whatever) any time you want. You can even drink it right in the street, any time of day (as long as it's not in a bottle; we do dislike glass shards;) ).
We may have plenty of other problems, but we definitely got the rules on liquor right!

[Brewdepest]

We just have those stupid and insideous "blue laws" prohibiting the sale of any alcohol, beer or otherwise on Sunday, including non-alcoholic beer (which, to me, just seems like the most useless substance next to silly putty.)
What's even more frustrating is that right across the river Kentucky doesn't have a state sanctioned blue law, but Henderson county where the bridge connects us does. A beer run on Sunday means driving at least an hour to the nearest town on the other side of the Wabash in Illinois, where one finds a severely limited number of choiced outside of Budweiser.

[Tyler]

Fritz Maytag (of Anchor Brewing Co) tells a very long winded story about how he had to lable his Old Potrero Rye Whiskey "straight rye spirit". Now, why would California have whiskey laws at all?
He can sell it in Kentucky as Rye Whiskey.....

[hopjack13]

some of the california laws don't make sense but regaurdless to the marketing laws you can buy alcohol 7 days a week from 6am to 2am there are only 4 dry hours , i lived in las vegas for a while and they never stop selling booze, 24 hours a day, 7 days a week, nice place to visit but i wouldn't want to live there again!:D

[Redbird Fan]

In Kansas -
No Sunday beer/liquor sales
nothing over 3.2% in grocery stores

[fretlessman71]

Can you buy 3.2% on Sunday in the grocery stores, though? If so, they're identical to the CO laws. Why did they decide on 3.2% ANYWAY???......

[hopjack13]

because 3.3% would be too much! especially on a sunday:D

[Redbird Fan]

nope, no Sunday beer/liquor sales at all.

[hnrblbrbrn]

Wyandotte county in KS is currently wet for a few hours on Sunday (noon to 8 PM). Several of the "border" counties with along MO are considering Sunday sales. It depends on what the courts say if the voters can have a say. The push is to make a county rather than state decision. The argument is tax dollars will stay here in KS. Hope this serves as encouragement to vote.

hopping off my soapbox

[S.F.B.]

The funny thing is, the 3.2 is alcahol by weight. 6.0 is alcahol by volume. I read a study when I lived in CO. that stated if you take the 3.2 beers and measure them by volume you get an alcahol content similar to their 6.0 counterpart. That is funny $hit. You get pretty much the same beer.

Here in Oregon, they just started allowing liquor stores to sell on Sundays about a year ago. Thing is, they can't stay open past like 7 or 8 PM.

Also, beer and wine is not sold in liquor stores. You get that at the grocery, convenience and Rite-aid/pharmacy type stores.

[fretlessman71]

Yeah, but they still cook the snot out of the batch predestined to be 3.2 because nobody wants to take the chance of going over that limit. The fines levied against the company would be pretty big, I guess. Just stupid. Ruin the taste; leave most of the alcohol in. Typical lawmaker crapola.

[brewmonkey]

Originally posted by fretlessman71
Yeah, but they still cook the snot out of the batch predestined to be 3.2 because nobody wants to take the chance of going over that limit. The fines levied against the company would be pretty big, I guess. Just stupid. Ruin the taste; leave most of the alcohol in. Typical lawmaker crapola.

"cooking the snot" out of the beer will not decrease it to 3.2%.

3.2 beer is reformulated to hit that gravity. "cooking" beer will do nothing but drive off ALL the alcohol whereas boiling wort will drive off water and increasing fermentables.

[brewmonkey]

Originally posted by S.F.B.
The funny thing is, the 3.2 is alcahol by weight. 6.0 is alcahol by volume. I read a study when I lived in CO. that stated if you take the 3.2 beers and measure them by volume you get an alcahol content similar to their 6.0 counterpart. That is funny $hit. You get pretty much the same beer.

Here in Oregon, they just started allowing liquor stores to sell on Sundays about a year ago. Thing is, they can't stay open past like 7 or 8 PM.

Also, beer and wine is not sold in liquor stores. You get that at the grocery, convenience and Rite-aid/pharmacy type stores.

3.2% ABW is about 4.1% ABV.

[batkins]

I lived in Dothan, AL for a while. No alcohol on Sunday, unless your in a private club. So Applebee's would have to discount your first beer/drink by $1. Then apply that $1 to a club membership, poof your a member of a club.
No draft beer sales. Not allowed to have two drinks (beer and shot for example) at one time.
No happy hours.
All this is barred, yet there are no set closing times for bars. So, as long as your not drinking draft, on special with a shot.....you can drink all day and night.
Somehow I don't seem to miss those crazy laws way up here in the NW.

[brewmonkey]

Originally posted by batkins
I lived in Dothan, AL for a while. No alcohol on Sunday, unless your in a private club. So Applebee's would have to discount your first beer/drink by $1. Then apply that $1 to a club membership, poof your a member of a club.
No draft beer sales. Not allowed to have two drinks (beer and shot for example) at one time.
No happy hours.
All this is barred, yet there are no set closing times for bars. So, as long as your not drinking draft, on special with a shot.....you can drink all day and night.
Somehow I don't seem to miss those crazy laws way up here in the NW.

In Kansas there are similar laws on the books. It is up to the county if you want to serve liquor by the drink, be a private club system or just have open saloon.

Here we cannot have any specials that would specifically promote alcohol consumption ie: cannot have two drinks in front of you, single person cannot order a pitcher of beer, no happy hours.

[guzzler67]

It's probably a safe bet that a lot of states and local jurisdictions that limit the sale of alcohol will start thinking twice. Main reason: more revenue for increasingly cash-strapped coffers.

In a state like Delaware, where Sunday sales of alcohol was prohibited because of their blue laws, you can now buy beer on Sundays. They realized consumers were going to states like Maryland to get their booze on Sundays, and realized the excise and sales taxes they were losing was sorely needed.

So if you are affected by some of these arcane laws, maybe there is a light at the end of the tunnel. Just hope they don't raise the taxes as the aclohol content of the beer goes up.

[b3s]

i recently moved to CO...saw the beer at the grocery store, bought a sixer...blech...bottled water! water's free, why would i pay for this stuff?

in WI, where i'm from originally, the rules are kinda hodge-podge about sales. the town i grew up in the supermarkets could not sell beer, 5 miles away (next town over), they could. in "the city" most grocery stores have an attached liquor store...but you can't buy groceries in the liquor store nor liquor in the grocery store. there was two stores in "the rich area" where you could.

i guess it's important to remain consistent as long as you don't do it all the time!

[paul84043]

Ah, yes.....consistently inconsistent..
I had no idea Colorado was as stupit as Utah until only recently when I was talking to a friend from work that comes from CO...

Posted above also....3.2% ABW = 4% ABV it still sucks. I have found a few Micro's locally that almost make up for the lack of alcohol in sheer taste.. pretty cool...

[hopjack13]

when i was on a project out in memphis tenn. they let me drink out on beal street on a saturday night until 5am sun morning.
when i woke me and my partner decided to have beer for breakfast (see in the intrest of science section) but couldn't buy one until noon? fine! off to tunica miss. to shoot some craps and have breakfast we went!.....belch!

[kingjam]

another funny one in tennessee (i'm from australia so i find all of this pretty funny)

if you're in the grocery store and the checkout chick is <21 you have to scan the beer yourself and put it in the bag.

classic.

[Quoodle]

Guy in NO Lousiana has it lucky - must be the french heritage down there - the french do some things right - Quebec is another example you can legally drink when 18 there and they have given us the lovely Unibrue brewery of late

[Beerconnoisseur]

OK, here's a wacky one:

Other day, I was in a local liquor store. I bought some gin, and tonic water. No request for ID (I'm 27, BTW, and have been told I don't look that old).

So today, I go into the *SAME* liquor store, and I only buy tonic water. This time, I get carded. I ask the cashier, and she tells me that I would get carded in a liquor store for anything, "even a pack of gum..."

Oh well. Your guess is as good as mine.
:confused:

[Richard English]

In the UK the minimum age for buying (or selling) alcohol is 18. If you buy alcohol at the local supermarket and the person on the checkout is under 18, then the sale must be supervised by an adult.

In practice this usually means that the checkout person simply has to catch the eye of a supervisor who nods assent.

It rarely causes any delay; indeed, if you were unaware of what was going on you probably wouldn't even spot the non-verbal transaction.

[chazwicke]

In Virginia we have a great selection of beer available and we did away with our Blue Laws in the 70s. We can buy it in grocery stores or convenience stores. I am unaware of any time restrictions but it has been years since I had a need to procure beer outside of normal shopping hours. We do have State stores for hard liquor sales though. We do also have some specialty wine and gourmet stores that carry nice selections of beer. Our laws have changed over time for the better. I once helped lobby our State Legislators to change some laws regarding beer festivals and the off sales from breweries. Our efforts were successful. We have a large wine industry in Virginia and they could sell their wines at the wineries. Brewers can now also do the same from the brewery. Most of our weird laws concerning alcohol went by the wayside long ago. I also benefit by living in suburban Washington DC. We are very close to DC and Maryland which also have fairly liberal liquor laws. And what brands we can't get in Virginia we often can in one of those other jurisdictions.

[brewmonkey]

Originally posted by Redbird Fan
In Kansas -
No Sunday beer/liquor sales
nothing over 3.2% in grocery stores


A lot of Kansas cities have declared homerule and told the state to kiss their ass. This coming Sunday my town will allow liquor stores to open 7 days a week and only close them for New Years, 4th of July and Christmas if I read the code correctly.

[toneyc]

Here in Central Texas a couple of weeks ago, I went to the local supermarket to get some beer. My 14 yr old son was with me so I figured I didn't need a cart or a basket or anything, I had slave labor with me. So I picked up a couple of 22oz bottles and a 6pk, which I had my son carry. When I got up to the check out counter, they would not sell me the 6pk because my son was carrying it. They said they'd sell me the two bottles I carried, but not the 6pk. I told 'em they could keep the whole lot and came back later by myself.

:)
Toney.

[chazwicke]

My 16 year old son always wants to taste a sip of the beer I am drinking at any given brewery or brewpub. I never allow it because it would jeopardize their liquor licenses. However, at home he occasionally asks if I am commenting on a certain beer and I might let him have a taste. Last may I was in Raleigh N.C. for a high school graduation of my nephew. A group of the guys went out to lunch at a place called The Flying Saucer that has about 100 taps. The waitress never asked the graduate who was eighteen or his older brother who is twenty for any ID and served them both beers. The place was nearly empty and it was a Saturday afternoon. Had I known they were going to order beers, I probably would have suggested that they not do it. I know they both drink beer and can handle it usually but I don't like to risk a good beer drinking establishment's license or cause them to be shut down. So while I think that grocery that would not sell you the beer that your son carried was taking it a bit too far, I do not fault restraunts for not serving under age drinkers.

[Fast_Eddy]

Originally posted by toneyc
Here in Central Texas a couple of weeks ago, I went to the local supermarket to get some beer. My 14 yr old son was with me so I figured I didn't need a cart or a basket or anything, I had slave labor with me. So I picked up a couple of 22oz bottles and a 6pk, which I had my son carry. When I got up to the check out counter, they would not sell me the 6pk because my son was carrying it. They said they'd sell me the two bottles I carried, but not the 6pk. I told 'em they could keep the whole lot and came back later by myself.

:)
Toney.

This is almost counter-intuitive because under the law in TX your son can drink the beer in your presence if you say it's OK.

[brewmonkey]

Check out this for more info on Texas laws on Minors in possession

http://www.tabc.state.tx.us/leginfo/minorcode.htm

More specifically this section-


Sec. 106.05. POSSESSION OF ALCOHOL BY A MINOR
(a) Except as provided in Subsection (b) of this section, a minor commits an offense if he possesses an alcoholic beverage.
(b) A minor may possess an alcoholic beverage:
(1) while in the course and scope of the minor's employment if the minor is an employee of a licensee or permittee and the employment is not prohibited by this code;

(2) if the minor is in the visible presence of his adult parent, guardian, or spouse, or other adult to whom the minor has been committed by a court; or

(3) if the minor is under the immediate supervision of a commissioned peace officer engaged in enforcing the provisions of this code.
(c) An offense under this section is punishable as provided by Section 106.071.

[Fast_Eddy]

That's what I was talking about - that section is basically duplicated in the Consumption of alchohol section, too. Maybe it was just store policy - stupid as it seems.

Hey Toney which store was it? I'll avoid it when I'm over Bastrop way.

[toneyc]

It was the new Super HEB there on Hwy71. They now have a well stocked beer aisle with things like Arrogant Bastard, Rogue Ale, Unibroue (sp?) Fin du Monde, Paulaner Salvator, and many more! Woohoo! Next time I go in, I'll have to take a copy of that code section.

:)
Toney.

[SeaPA]

Here in Florida we just recently (about a year ago) got rid of a garbage law that had tight restrictions on the SIZES of packaged beer; could ONLY be in cans/bottles that contained 8, 12, 16, or 32 oz. It was clearly a law that was put in years ago by lobbyists for the American big brewers (AB, Miller). Kept out most all imports that are frequently packaged in metric based bottles. Happily it got tossed out & greatly opened up the beer market here.

We still have blue laws that vary from county to county, even vary inside city limits within counties. City of St Pete recentlly changed their old law that didn't allow sales until after 1 pm; changed it to 10 am to allow champagne brunches. City of Tampa is halfway to changing their law, too (right now no sales until 1 pm; sucks on Bucs game day because if you want a brew in the stadium you miss the opening kickoff).
In the county where I live (Pasco) sales are not allowed until 1 pm on Sundays. But included in this county is a wonderful little town that was founded by Catholics & is primarily populated by Catholics. The city statute allows sales beginning at 7am, which comes in quite handy sometimes.

[brewmonkey]

In KCMO you cannot sell anything in glass bigger then 22oz.

[Richard English]

What is the matter with these people? That's only a pint!

[brewmonkey]

Originally posted by Richard English
What is the matter with these people? That's only a pint!

It has to do with gangs and other crowds that form on the corners at night and drink from the 40's. Not sure how much success they had with it.

[SoxyinMO]

Having lived in places which, in the past, have had cut-off deadlines for purchasing alcohol, (like Michigan and the Tidewater in Virginia) I have learned to buy my beer early, just in case.

I live in mid-missouri and while I do have trouble finding GOOD beer in town, have never had trouble buying beer. Like California, the grocery stores here sell beer, wine and hard liquor together.

The worst was donkey's years ago in Michigan when I picked up a bottle of wine on Sunday morning. The cashier picked up the bottle and handed it to the bagger without a word. The bagger walked away with my precious bottle - without a word.

I said, what's going on?
And all she said was : "It's not two." Then went back to ringing up my groceries. I was a kid, 19 when the drinking age there was 18, but I felt like a criminal. Ever since I've tried to anticipate my weekend needs, no matter where I live.

[neal]

I'm a bit puzzled about how the whole beer law thing works. How the lawmakers decide what the legal alcohol percentage will be and so forth, but even some beers that are under 6% apparently can't be shipped to North Carolina. I've called around and tried on many occasions to get some beers from Summit Brewing Company in Minnesota shipped to my home (or at least the local store), and all I get seems to be "we can ship it to Atlanta, GA." That doesn't help me much. I can't drive to Georgia just for a few cases of beer. I'm sure that lack of availablity in certain areas is caused by the flow of money (or lack there of) between distributors. I thnk I'm less disturbed by the laws regulating beer (although I don't see a clear need for most of them) than I am the distributors' collective disreguard to the discriminating beer connoisseur. I realize that the masses want Bud, MGD, and Coors, but some beer drinkers are looking for their prize aquisitions as would anyone seeking a fine wine. When distrubitors see this, they will undoubtedly offer an even greater variety of craft beers to the areas they serve.

[warmstorage]

Originally posted by SeaPA
Here in Florida...
could ONLY be in cans/bottles that contained 8, 12, 16, or 32 oz. It was clearly a law that was put in years ago by lobbyists for the American big brewers (AB, Miller). Kept out most all imports that are frequently packaged in metric based bottles. not to mention, and in my opinion more important, the 22 ounce 'bombers' which so many American microbrewers use.

But included in this county is a wonderful little town that was founded by Catholics & is primarily populated by Catholics. The city statute allows sales beginning at 7am, which comes in quite handy sometimes. [/B] ahhh... gotta love those hard drinking catholics. i fondly remember my first significant consumption of wine being as an altar boy, drinking the leftover (blood of Christ) after Mass, at about age 11-12. Father Charlie use to say "can't be pouring the Blood of Christ down the sink, now can we?"

of course, while i personally was fine and never harmed, maybe Catholic priests would be in less trouble if they were a little more inhibited, hmmm?

[warmstorage]

Originally posted by Richard English
What is the matter with these people? That's only a pint! i agree entirely with your sentiment, Richard, and it serves to illustrate why we so badly need an organization like CAMRA to be active and widespread here in the US: our "pint" glasses are typically 16 oz. glasses, which are rarely filled completely to the brim, as CAMRA rightfully demands they should be.

so, in practice, a "pint" ordered in an American bar, even at a brewpub which purports to care about beer, is usually 14.5 to 15 American fluid ounces. and i have sent more than a few pints back when they were closer to the 14 oz. (or even LESS!!) and been met with looks from barstaff & waitstaff ranging from bothered to shocked. (which, having spent a number of years in the foodservice industry, i note that i was nice and polite when i asked.)

dan

[warmstorage]

Originally posted by brewmonkey
Check out this for more info on Texas laws on Minors in possession
http://www.tabc.state.tx.us/leginfo/minorcode.htm since Colorado has been compared elsewhere in this thread, i'd note that Colorado has a couple of very similar sections (which i've shortened and added emphasis to, for full text see: http://198.187.128.12/colorado/lpext.dll?f=templates&fn=fs-main.htm&2.0

C.R.S. 18-13-122:
(3) It shall be an affirmative defense to the offense... that the ethyl alcohol was possessed or consumed... under the following circumstances:

(3)(a) While such person was legally upon private property with the knowledge and consent of the owner or legal possessor of such private property and the ethyl alcohol was possessed or consumed with the consent of his parent or legal guardian who was present during such possession or consumption
...

additionally, the server/provider is exempt from criminal liability if the exception above is met:

(7) A parent or legal guardian of a person under twenty-one years of age or any natural person who has the permission of such parent or legal guardian may give or permit the possession and consumption of ethyl alcohol to or by a person under the age of twenty-one years under the conditions described in paragraph (a) of subsection (3) of this section. (goes on to note that licensed establishments do not qualify for this exception...)

of course this is not legal advice,
dan

[Richard English]

And always remember. too, that US liquid measures are smaller than British (Imperial) measures. A US pint is only just over 4 fifths of an Imperial one and 14.5 US fluid ounces is only three-quarters of an Imperial pint!

It is something of a shock to US visitors to Britain when they order their first pint in a pub and discover just how large our standard measure of beer actually is! And I can remember my horror when, in 1979 I first ordered "a beer" in a US bar (in New York) and got what seemed to me to be just about enough for a flea to paddle in. The second shock came when I tried to drink it and found that the glass and the drink were so cold that I almost burnt my lips. The third shock came when I actually managed to force some of the concoction past my tonsils, yuk! I stuck to whisky for the rest of the trip.

It wasn't until my first visit to San Francisco that I found an American beer that I could enjoy.

Now, of course, there are plenty of them if you know where to look.

[paulwastaken]

i don't know the specifics but in certain states they sell beer in gas stations and have drive-thru alcohol sales. always found that funny. someone also told me once they went on the jack daniels tour in lynchburg, tn and they don't sell whisky where it's made because it's a dry county.

[Blazer79]

does canada have any bylaws???:cool:

[hades_ibex]

Canada is like the States in that liquor laws are regulated by the provinces. I believe the minimum drinking age is 18 in Quebec, Alberta and the Yukon (don't quote me on the Yukon), and 19 everywhere else. Here in BC we have real draconian laws that are slowly being eliminated by the gov't. Laws stating that you can't order a drink in a restaurant without ordering food, and restrictions on the number of TVs allowed in bars and the size of dance floors in clubs, etc. We also have to buy our alcohol in one of the gov't owned liquor stores (or a few private "beer and wine stores" - ie no spirits).

It's quite funny when you consider that people smoke pot out in the streets here in Vancouver. We have stores that sell hemp clothing and such (and marijuana paraphenalia). We just opened "safe injection sites" where heroin addicts can shoot-up supervised by nurses. And gays are getting married. All this seems pretty liberal to me!

"Laws are like sausages, it is better not to see them being made."
-Otto von Bismark

[Richard English]

Certain London boroughs have just enacted some by-laws which forbid drinking in public in certain areas (parks and the like).

This is clearly not to stop the drinking (I would imagine that a family having a picnic and drinking some wine with their meal would not be fined) but to eliminate the squalid side-effects of those who wander around in small groups drinking strong lager from cans.

The confetti of discarded beer cans, the carpet of empty carrier bags and the other manifestations of this kind of behaviour is foul and visible evidence of the bad side of the relatively modern phenomenon of public drinking.

When I was young (a long time ago) beer was supplied in bottles and those bottles had a deposit charged on them. It was rare indeed to see drinking detritus since the amount charged was quite enough to ensure the return of the intact bottle to the sales point.

Since I have never yet drunk a beer from a can that was better than so-so, I would like to think that the next step is the banning of the beer can - but I rather doubt that will ever happen.

However, the reintroduction of cash deposits on all containers might go some way towards cleaning up our streets and public places and would seem to me to be a very sensible piece of legislation.

[toneyc]

I agree with you on cans, they're evil. However, most outdoor public places in my area (Central Texas) have banned glass containers. The situation has gotten deplorable.

:)
Toney.

[Richard English]

I suppose that's because of the danger from broken glass.

However, a deposit would solve that problem too. After all, it's not easy to break a beer bottle (those that smash so readily on the heads of fighters in the movies are made of sugar or some other fragile material). Most broken bottles are that way because they've been broken deliberately.

If they had a significant value then people would take care of them.

Incidentally, in Malta the Cisk brewery charges a deposit on its bottles and gets back over 98% of them - which it cleans and re-uses. I find it hard to understand why other countries (including the UK) seem so opposed to the idea.

[tubetek]

Howdy All-
here in Kentucky, some enlightened groups have been attempting to get a "Bottle Bill" passed...Seems the Soda lobby is as strong/influential as the MACROBREW Lobby. We haven't had returnables from the big soda guys here in about 15 years it seems. Oddly enough, a local popular soda here (ALE-8) is sold in 12 oz return bottles; The company seems happy to continue, but most grocery stores don't want to bother handling the returns; some even make you take store coupons in lieu of cash for empties! With this attitude prevailing, what better can we expect?
(rant over)
Enjoy

[Richard English]

Quote, "...most grocery stores don't want to bother handling the returns;..."

That would appear to me to mean that the amount of the deposit is too little. In the days I remember a bottle of soft drink (soda) like Tizer would cost around 1/6 (7.5p) and the deposit would be 3d (1.25p). This was a large enough percentage (15%) to be worthwhile and a large enough figure to be split among the shop and the supplier.

A modern bottle of beer costs around £1.70 and a 15% deposit would be about 25p - quite enough to cover the handling costs. Remember, the bottles have to be carried from the bottling plant to the shop and from the shop's storage area to the shelves. The retuinr journey, presently carried out with empty vehicles and containers, could so easily be carried out with full ones carrying returned bottles at almost no extra cost.

[hades_ibex]

In Canada, we have a deposit charge on beer and pop containers. It's only 5 or 10 cents (or 25 cents on 2 litre plastic bottles), and indeed most people can't be bothered to return them for the refund. But then this supplies a form of income to the very poor and homeless who scour the city streets and garbage cans for discarded bottles.

Here we cannot drink in public at all. I always enjoyed my visits to England where I could drink outdoors, or on a train or even a bus.

[hades_ibex]

Just to add to my last post. I don't believe the returned cans and bottles are reused but rather recycled. Some grocery stores have automated return centres where you throw your container in, it reads the barcode, determines how much you should be refunded, and crushes the container (I believe) if its aluminum or plastic.

But then again this city was where Greenpeace was born. We recycle almost everything: cardboard, paper, "tin" cans, milk jugs, newsprint, etc.

[fretlessman71]

Originally posted by tubetek
Oddly enough, a local popular soda here (ALE-8) is sold in 12 oz return bottles...

I was just in Lexington, and ALMOST bought a bottle of that stuff. What is it? Just ginger ale with a cool name, or is it unique?

[tubetek]

Howdy Fretless-
It's kinda hard to describe...Think GingerAle with some of the fruitiness of real Ale. I believe it has some grapefruit juice in it; It's pretty good "stuff"
Enjoy!

[Herb Ninja]

On Maui the bars close at 1AM and they stop selling liquor at the stores at 11PM. Instead of having a bunch of drunks at home we have more drinking and driving. Stupid laws...

[Arassuil]

Here in Australia you have to go to a licensed 'bottleshop' for any alcoholic beverages. usually there is one located right next to the grocery store, which means you have to make an extra stop after grocery shopping to pick up beer, wine, or distilled spirits. It has to do with keeping minors (under age 18) from easily buying alcohol. What I think is humorous is when you stop in a small town where the post, petrol, cafe, grocery, and bottleshop are all in one building. You have to pay for the beer at one cash register, and everything else at another one. Of course, you can get homebrew kits at the grocery.

[psychodad]

Holy old thread Batman!

The Kansas laws have got better to the degree that it is now up to the municipalities to decide if Sunday sales are permitted. Of course the one horse town I live in ordained that there would be none of that on the Lord's day.

Funny thing is I'm on the border of Kansas and Oklahoma. Folks in Oklahoma believe that the beer in Kansas is worth making the drive for. While the better beers available at the liquor store may be worth it, they come up here and buy up cases of Bud Light. And a lot of them don't realize they need to go to the liquor store and just pile into the convenience store to buy the same thing they can get at the grocery store in Oklahoma.

[D0nc0smic]

Virginia has a last call of 2 am, and the stores stop selling beer at midnight. all liquor is in state stores so the hours for those just depends on when the government decides to keep the stores open, though they are open on sunday now, though only the last few years. I always find pennsylvania to be really strange when i am there. Places where beer isn't sold in grocery stores are always kinda strange to me, but the fact that they don't sell beer in liquor stores either and have separate beer stores just seems terribly strange.

[skahtboi]

I feel like I am in "Night of the Living Thread," with all of these ancient, moth ridden threads being brought back to life!

[steveh]

Originally posted by skahtboi
I feel like I am in "Night of the Living Thread," with all of these ancient, moth ridden threads being brought back to life!

At least someone has learned how to use the search function! ;)

S.

[M.K. Jeeves]

No growler sales at Florida brewpubs :mad: at least not in North West Florida.

[Arassuil]

Yes, I'm guilty of necro-posting.
Having searched a topic and saw interesting topics, I replied to them. It wasn't til later I realized some were quite old. Anyway, new life to old topics is cool. :)

I found out that most pubs here you have to pay for each drink. When I was in Washington state I could 'run a tab' and when I was done, pay the bill.

[zoom6zoom]

When I lived in Kansas, we used to make beer runs over to Missouri to get around the 3.2 thing. More than one weekend we got back to KU with a pickup truck loaded with cases of Grain Belt (at a student-friendly $4/case!).

[psychodad]

This seems to fit this thread (http://www.rockymountainnews.com/news/2007/dec/26/laws-against-reason/)

In Fairbanks, Alaska, it's illegal to serve liquor to a moose. By contrast, in Ohio it's legal to serve booze to a fish, but not if you get it drunk.

Ever since the repeal of Prohibition, alcohol laws in this country have been a bit nutty.

Take the business of bars. Some states mandate sitting, while others require standing at the bar to drink. Texans may take up to but not more than three sips of beer while standing. Some jurisdictions require the interior of public drinking establishments to be visible from the street; others specifically prohibit that.

In Iowa it's illegal to run a tab. And don't even think of having a drop after closing hours there - not even if you own the bar. It's hard to imagine the incident that led to Iowa's law stating that if an employee pours water down the drain while a police officer is drinking at the bar, the water is considered an alcoholic beverage intended for unlawful purposes.

Bars and restaurants in North Dakota are forbidden to serve beer and pretzels at the same time. Nebraska bars may not sell beer except when simultaneously brewing a kettle of soup.

If you skip the bar and head to a liquor store in Indiana, you won't find any soda or milk in the cooler. They may, however, sell warm soft drinks. In California, no alcoholic beverages may be displayed within 5 feet of a cash register if the store sells both alcohol and motor fuel. Presumably so you don't confuse your Colt 45 with your 10W40.

Philosophical drinkers in Houston might ponder the fact that it's illegal to buy beer after midnight Sunday but perfectly all right any time Monday, which starts - that's right - right after midnight Sunday.

The law considers some things best left unsaid. Like the word refreshing, prohibited on any alcoholic beverage in the country. The newsletters and ads of California producers may not list retailers or restaurants that sell their products.

In New York City, the word saloon is forbidden, a fact that restaurateur Michael O'Neil didn't realize until his sign was already up. Patrons now belly up to the bar of O'Neil's Baloon.

Legislators are adamant about protecting children under 21 from the demon rum. In Missouri, if your kid takes out the trash and it contains even one empty wine bottle, he can be charged with illegal possession of alcohol. In Michigan, it's illegal for a youngster to give a grown-up a bottle of booze. Pretty lenient, considering that in Kentucky even an adult could spend five years in jail for sending a gift of beer, wine or spirits to a friend.

If the friend were in Texas, he might have a long wait, anyway, considering that delivery drivers carrying anything alcoholic must detour around the state's dry counties. Could this sort of clarity of thinking have anything to do with the fact that the entire Encyclopedia Britannica is banned in Texas because it contains a recipe for making beer that could be used at home?

If you decide to send your youngster on a semester abroad to absorb some foreign common sense, don't imagine he'll get a taste of wine in Bordeaux or beer at the Hoffbrau Haus. The Drug Free Schools and Campuses Act prohibits Americans under 21 from conforming to the drinking laws and customs of their host countries.

Enough to make you sit down on the curb and cry. Which is perfectly legal in St. Louis, as long as, while you're sitting there, you don't also drink beer from a bucket.

If you like this story, be glad you live in Colorado and not Maryland, as this reporter would be unlikely to pass that state's stringent requirements concerning wine writers. Not only are they restricted to three bottles per brand of product samples, but they must first be certified as experts by an agency of the state.

[DubbelDach]

Forgive me if posted before, I did not read through. I'm brewing in an hour and have to shovel snow first!

I live in Pennsylvania. My hockey team likes to drink together after games, so yesterday after an open hockey session, we go to a bar that we frequent. Now, we just played for 2 hours. I sit down at the bar and place my keys, phone, and an unopened bottle of water on the bar.

Barmaid tells me that I can't have the bottle in the bar. Eh? I explained to her that the seal isn't cracked and I was attempting to make it easier on whoever served us (I'm a waiter/bartender as well and hate running for waters). She told me she'd be happy to supply me with water.

So it's PA law that I can't bring an outside bottle (of water, lol) into the bar. Because I obviously went through the trouble of injecting the bottle of clear water with vodka, because that's delicious or something.

I chugged 3 huge glasses of water just so she'd have to keep filling.

[wild]

It's the same issue here. You can't walk into a bar or restaurant with water. But at least here they can't charge for tap water.

[wortchillergoal]

I figure alcohol is connected to this one. In Binghamton, NY it is illegal for ninth grade boys to grow a moustache. I don't think they could have been sober to come up with that one.

[TasteYourBeer]

So reading back on this thread some, what is the rationale of only selling 3% beer in grocery stores in some states? I mean is the weak beer in the grocery store going to some how prevent you from going on a drunken rampage accross town?

I mean you can still go to the liquor store and get it.

[beerking]

Originally posted by TasteYourBeer
So reading back on this thread some, what is the rationale of only selling 3% beer in grocery stores in some states? I mean is the weak beer in the grocery store going to some how prevent you from going on a drunken rampage accross town?

I mean you can still go to the liquor store and get it.

I suspect the reason there is because minors are allowed in a grocery store, but not in the liquor store. Same logic as the states that allow beer and wine in the grocery store, but not hard spirits.

[Arassuil]

People ask here why the United States alcohol laws are so screwed up, with one guy citing his experience in Salt Lake City during the Winter Olympics a few years back. Apparently you can only get 3.2 beer there at stste liquer stores>

I found this (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alcohol_laws_of_the_United_States_by_state) on wikipedia so take it for what its worth, but it seems somewhat thorough.