How is McMullen tasting these days?

[Acataleptic]

I was just reading through a journal of my 2000/2001 holiday is London and was struck by how much I enjoyed McMullen's beers. I was wondering if the ales have changed much since the selling of their pubs and the full concentration on house beers. I wasn't sure what brands they contracted besides Mann's (I think). We visited the Cricketeers in Woodford Green. I loved the AK and the Country Best Bitter, Gladstone Bitter was very good too. I also tasted Stronghart, but didn't include it in my notes. I think a brewery trip will be in order for the next trip.

Listening to: The Beatles EPs box set

[I'mRocketMan]

I was going to ask if she was a redhead.... :D

[MeridianFC]

I had some McMullen's in downtown London (the Spice of Life) this past December (this is post sale). I had both the AK and the Country Best. I remember them being solid beers though not spectacular. Decent session pints with my preference being for the Country Best.

Richard English please pick up the white courtesy phone, Richard English please pick up the white courtesy phone.

:)

Listening to Mark Eitzel "the Ugly American"

[Acataleptic]

That's a shame. I hope it's an isolated problem and not representative of their beers in general.

The other item of note from my travel journal was that a good quarter of the pints tasted past their prime and being unfamiliar with the paticular ale didn't help. I guess that's the luck of the draw. You can't always be drinking from a fresh cask.

The one thing that struck me funny the last trip to the UK was that it took a few days to acclimate my pallet to the subtleties of cask ale. At the time I was drinking over the top hoppy beers and though tasty that may be, they lack the complexity of Real Ale. Has anyone else experienced this phenomenon?

Listening to: Emerson, Lake, & Palmer 1970 Emerson, Lake, & Palmer

[chazwicke]

Oh man! My pallet take no acclamation. As soon as I've touched down my quest begins. I'm still bummed that I was unable to get back over for GBBF earlier this month. I guess the Ealing Broadway fest in may will have to carry me until my next trip. Any Illustrious board members planning a trip over anytime soon? One of the reasons I did not go back this August was I had no one to play with. Well I'd have bought Richard another pint but he was only attending GBBF for one day. I go to all sessions.

[Acataleptic]

Don't get me wrong the quest for a perfect pint starts upon landing, but I just didn't have any luck for the first few days. Maybe I picked the wrong beers to sample, maybe the wrong pubs. Everything seemed a little flavorless. I just attributed that to I wasn't used to "under" hopped beers at the time. I guess it could have been anything really.

Nothing to see here move along...

Listening to: The Propellerheads 1998 DRUMSANDDECKSANDROCKANDROLL

[MeridianFC]

Originally posted by Acataleptic

The other item of note from my travel journal was that a good quarter of the pints tasted past their prime and being unfamiliar with the paticular ale didn't help. I guess that's the luck of the draw. You can't always be drinking from a fresh cask.



FWIW The Spice of Life is a McMullen's pub. The beer was in good nick, so no complaints there. I don't want to give you the wrong impression, it wasn't bad by any stretch it just wasn't a world beater. Not all beers have to be. Whilst I support the McMullen's Brewery spiritually (like Yeungling) I just don't care for the beers as much as some others.

As far as the condition of beer, in most places I went it was excellent. Overwhelming so. I stuck pretty close to things in the most recent Good Beer Guide (indispensable really) and it's hard to go wrong. The only thing near off was a less than stellar Courage Director's I had at a place that did not, well let's say it didn't focus on Real Ale. I was actually shocked at the number of prime condition beers I had.

As a quick aside re: uber hoppy beers, I find they can really dull the palate.

[Acataleptic]

Good the hear I was the only one to get a rock! ;)

Listening to: MOJO CD: Beatlemania / Volume 1

[Richard English]

McMullen's isn't very special to my mind. OK if there's nothing else but there are many better pints.

And in answer to Chaswyke's note - I will be in Orlando from 19 November for a fortnight.

[chris_o]

Last time I had McMullens the Country Best Bitter was surprisingly good, the AK rather bad. Both at the Nags Head, Covent Garden - not a great pub for beer, but I was in the area. Here are my notes.

Country Best Bitter
Quite a surprise as I was not expecting too much. A very enjoyable best bitter. Good balance of malt and hops. Medium bodied. Good clean finish. Very moreish. A well made beer, well kept and well served - something of a surprise for a busy pub in Covent Garden, where cask ale is not the focus of attention.

Original AK
Not impressed. This is not a pub that you’ d expect to keep its beers particularly well, but I enjoyed the McMullens Best I had just before, so the cellaring is probably not entirely to blame. This was just dull and thin. Very little aroma, not much taste either. No spark. Not undrinkable, but that’s about the best I can say.

I don't drink enough McMullens to know whether those tastings were representative. What I do know is that McMullens have messed around with the AK recipe. It was originally a Light Mild, but a while ago started appearing as "AK Original Bitter". Then they dropped the "bitter" from the name, but the colour appears darker than the original original and the taste seems to have drifted into something midway between a mild and a bitter, succeeding as neither.

[Acataleptic]

Ok then, I ask everyone this question:

What do you think are the top 5 brewery portfolios (all beers they produce) in the UK?

I've only toured the UK three times over the last 15 years for about seven weeks total. Impossible to keep current with the changing flavor. I can read the news, but rarely do I get to sample the latest and greatest. Oh well, maybe I need to come over for the GBBF. Or is there another not so crowded festival that would beer better for tasting?

Listening to: Beach Boys 1967 Smile!

[chazwicke]

Beach Boys from that period through Holland were awesome. with the exception of the Carl and the Passions album all the others were great:

Pet Sounds
Smilely Smile
Friends
Wild Honey
20/20
Surfs Up
Holland

Carl and the Passions was good but not as good.

GBBF is not that bad during the daytime sessions but I enjoyed the Smaller Broadway Ealing fest.

If you are a CAMRA member you will get the "What's Brewing" paper with fest schedules.

If any board members want to go over let me know. I need others to play with. And Richard would meet up with us I'm sure.

[Richard English]

Wow! We produce thousands of beers in the UK - including over 500 bottle-conditioned beers - so the question is a very difficult one.

But it's a fairly save bet that anything produced by one of the mega-brewers will be fairly ordinary so, if you've seen it advertised extensively, it's probably not worth bothering with.

My common preference is for Fuller's beers which are always well-balanced and interesting. But there are many, many others, all good, that I will drink with great pleasure. This evening I will be drinking some Hog's Back T.E.A. at a local near here.

There are beer festivals in the UK every month - and several every month. Just check the calendar in "What's Brewing" (join CAMRA if you don't get it and you then will!).

Even a small festival will have thirty or forty different cask-conditioned beers to try and, of course, every pub will have two or three. Around 5,500 pubs in London alone means you won't be stuck for choice!

[chazwicke]

Originally posted by chazwicke
Beach Boys from that period through Holland were awesome. with the exception of the Carl and the Passions album all the others were great:

Pet Sounds
Smilely Smile
Friends
Wild Honey
20/20
Surfs Up
Holland

Carl and the Passions was good but not as good.

GBBF is not that bad during the daytime sessions but I enjoyed the Smaller Broadway Ealing fest.

If you are a CAMRA member you will get the "What's Brewing" paper with fest schedules.

If any board members want to go over let me know. I need others to play with. And Richard would meet up with us I'm sure.

Dang! I forgot to list Sunflower too. Some good stuff on that album.

[Acataleptic]

Back to Richard's comments:

As for beers in the UK, I know the number available has grown over the years, but I was wondering if there were any classic breweries you could always count on for a good pint no matter what beer style was pouring. Some of those breweries I think fit this category:

Fuller's
Harvey's
McMullen's
Hook Norton
Theakston's
Burton Bridge
Wadworth
Samual Smith's

(I know there are a few more, but I'd have to find my notes.)

They all offered a great portfolio of beers ranging from Milds, Bitters, Pales, IPAs, Stouts, and beyond. Every beer had it's own characteristics within the style and was a damn good beer. To me that makes a good brewery. Of course, what one thinks of as "good" is subjective and time sensitive.

Also, I was a CAMRA member between 1992-1994 or 95. But like I mentioned before, just reading about the beers without ever tasting them was a little like reading about sex without having ever experienced it. The text sets the imagination afire, but does little to relieve the urge. LOL

Listening to: People Under The Stairs 2002 O.S.T.

[Richard English]

All those you mention are fine although Theakstons had been sold (which is why Paul Theakston started the Black Sheep brewery) and I suspect that the beer quality suffered (I don't drink it often - it's more common in the North). However, the family have now bought the firm back so maybe things will improve.

McMullens I have never found to be to my taste although that's a preference. Many people like their beers.

All the others are fine.

As I said, providing the brewery is not one of the conglomerates you can be fairly sure that the beer will be good. The mega-brewers can brew good beer but the pressure on them is always to brew a beer that will upset nobody and be acceptable to everybody and this means bland and boring. Their are exceptions, of course, but they are rare.

Courage Directors is a fine brew (their ordinary bitter is bland); Worthington White Shield (a bottle-conditioned pale ale) is good but forget the rest.

Tetleys, John Smiths Whitbread and the other mega-brewers - don't waste your time and money.

[stronk]

I think the reason the rest of the stuff from Worthington's is not up to White Shield standard is that the WS is now brewed by the Museum Brewing company (I think, owned by Bass). It may have been able to keep the Worthington's label because it identifies the beer to old fans.

[Richard English]

Indeed. That's been the case for years. Although draught Bass was a fine drink at one time it in now only ordinary.

Worthington White Shield has always been a good bottled beer and, when I started drinking, along with Guinness, Thomas Hardy's and Gale's Prize Old Ale was the only bottle-conditioned beer still brewed.

Sadly Guinness is now brewery-conditioned but the others are still brewed as BCAs (and Gale's Prize Old Ale is incomparably good). White shield is as food as it ever was but it has been outshone by some of the newer BCAs (now numbering over 500 in the UK).

[chris_o]

Originally posted by stronk
I think the reason the rest of the stuff from Worthington's is not up to White Shield standard is that the WS is now brewed by the Museum Brewing company (I think, owned by Bass). It may have been able to keep the Worthington's label because it identifies the beer to old fans.
The resurgence of White Shield is good to see, but has downsides. Steve Wellington, the brewer at Museum Brewery recreated a whole range of old beers (many as one-offs) from the Bass archives at Museum (part of the Bass Museum, now owned by Coors), but the heavy promotion of White Shield and the move of its production to Museum is likeley to result in production of those heritage beers being scaled down, or discontinued altogether. There was talk of Steve Wellington using the nearby Tower brewery to brew these old beers. Whether with the blessing of Coors, or not, I don't know and I'm not sure what the current position is.

[chris_o]

Originally posted by Richard English

Worthington White Shield has always been a good bottled beer and, when I started drinking, along with Guinness, Thomas Hardy's and Gale's Prize Old Ale was the only bottle-conditioned beer still brewed.

Courage Russian Imperial Stout?

The Gales Prize Old Ale is indeed a great beer and Gales deserve credit for being just about the only non micro that concentrates on bottle-conditioning for its bottled beers. Sadly, I find their cask bitters a little dull and often on the sweet side.

[chazwicke]

Greene King A fairly large brewer, makes some good beers too. Principally the Abbot Ale. There are others also not on the list Such as Adnans, Caines, Ridleys........

[chazwicke]

We can get Gales beers here. Usually the specialty beers.

[Richard English]

Quote "...Courage Russian Imperial Stout?..."

You know, I thought there was another one but I couldn't call it to mind! I believe someone's brewing it again but I can't find the reference for the minute.

[Richard English]

Quote "...Greene King A fairly large brewer, makes some good beers too. Principally the Abbot Ale. There are others also not on the list Such as Adnans, Caines, Ridleys........."

Whereas these are all large breweries by the standards of many of the US craft brewers, they are small when compared with the multi-nationals about whom my remarks were really intended.

There's a good site here http://www.quaffale.org.uk/ that gives information about all the UK brewers.

[chris_o]

Originally posted by Acataleptic
Ok then, I ask everyone this question:

What do you think are the top 5 brewery portfolios (all beers they produce) in the UK?

That's a tough one, with something over 500 breweries currently in operation in the UK. Although the regional breweries generally produce a solid range, I sometimes find their beers a bit staid. The well established micros are often best placed to strike the right balance between consitency and innovation but, as with all experiments, they are not all successful all of the time. My favourites (I know it's more than 5) include, in no particular order, include.

Crouch Vale
Woodfordes
Roosters
Titanic
Dark Star
Phoenix
Freeminer
Burton Bridge
Wentworth
Hampshire
Triple fff

Some of these own a pub or two and most bottle some of their output, but whether any of that reaches the US I don't know.

[Richard English]

Last weekend I tried, for the first time, the products of Kent's newest brewery, Westerham Brewery.

Started on this year using an 11 barrel brewplant has been imported from the USA. Their head brewer is a Canadian so the transatlantic influence is significant.

The four beers they brew are all bitters, from 3.8% to 5% and are all very tasty - my preference being for the 4.8% 7X. You can find out more about them here. http://www.westerhambrewery.co.uk/

At the moment they sell mainly at festivals and special events.

[Acataleptic]

These are all fine suggestions.

I can't wait to get back over to the UK for another tasting soon, but unfortunately it looks like spring at the earliest. I think this winter I'll crack the various strong beers I brought back from London. I have Fullers Vintage 98' 99' 00' and some other powerful delights. I think there's a Courage Russian Imperial Stout & a Bass Russian Imperial Stout and who knows what else. I have about 12 bottles stashed in the basement that I haven't even looked at for a year or so. Should be very tasty right about now.

Cheers and thanks for the info!

Listening to: John Lee Hooker 1966 More Real Folk Blues

[chazwicke]

I was there last May. The Broadway Ealing festival is held then and an easy reach via the tube from London.

[chazwicke]

Originally posted by chris_o
That's a tough one, with something over 500 breweries currently in operation in the UK. Although the regional breweries generally produce a solid range, I sometimes find their beers a bit staid. The well established micros are often best placed to strike the right balance between consitency and innovation but, as with all experiments, they are not all successful all of the time. My favourites (I know it's more than 5) include, in no particular order, include.

Crouch Vale
Woodfordes
Roosters
Titanic
Dark Star
Phoenix
Freeminer
Burton Bridge
Wentworth
Hampshire
Triple fff

Some of these own a pub or two and most bottle some of their output, but whether any of that reaches the US I don't know.

Woodefords Wherry is superb. I believe it clocks in at 3.8.
Freeminer's Titanic IPA is good as well but have only had it in the bottle. I've had beers on cask from most of the others.

[MeridianFC]

If I said I was developing a great thirst from reading this thread, I would not be lying.

[chris_o]

Originally posted by Richard English
Last weekend I tried, for the first time, the products of Kent's newest brewery, Westerham Brewery.

Started on this year using an 11 barrel brewplant has been imported from the USA. Their head brewer is a Canadian so the transatlantic influence is significant.

The four beers they brew are all bitters, from 3.8% to 5% and are all very tasty - my preference being for the 4.8% 7X. You can find out more about them here. http://www.westerhambrewery.co.uk/

At the moment they sell mainly at festivals and special events.
I've tried all four of the Westerham beers - two at Dartford Beer Festival and two at Canterbury Beer Festival, but I know that at least one of them has been on at the Wenlock Arms as well. Not available at the GBBF of course, because of the organisers' reluctance to showcase beers from new breweries. I'll post my notes over at the Tasting Notes forum when I get a chance. My preference was also for the 7X, although the two I had at Dartford were manifestly not properly conditioned - the cellarman was from the "if it's clear, it must be ready" school, although I suspect he was under heavy ticker pressure to bring the beers on.

[chazwicke]

You might want to check out this thread then.

http://www.realbeer.com/discussions/showthread.php?s=&threadid=4516

[Acataleptic]

Both those events sound great! I guess it's time for me to get a job.

Drink local, what else can a poor buy do?

Listening to: Herbie Hancock 1968 Speak Like A Child

[stronk]

I have Fullers Vintage 98' 99' 00
What's this like? I've got a couple of 2003 bottles I'm going to hang onto, but I only bought 2, so I've never tried it.
Woodefords Wherry is superb
I quite agree. I had the unenviable experience a couple of days ago of having to pass up the chance of a pint of Wherry to play pool with my young cousin. By the time we had finished and I was aching for my pint, I had to go :(.