Frustrated with Foam...

[nstahlman]

Hello...

Did I mention that I am frustrated with pouring foamy beer? I have followed tips on this site and others with no luck.

Here is my setup...

Haier BrewMaster
Keg of Coors Light (which is about 1/2 - 3/4 full)
Avg Temp 38 F
14 PSI of Co2
5' beer line

I thought that this problem would just go away after some time and a couple of glasses, but the problem still remains. When I pour a pint I get about 3/4 of a glass of foam and then when the foam settles...flat beer.

I was under the impression that I have tried everything but obviously not because I still have foamy beer. Any help that I could get from others that have had "good" luck with Coors Light would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks,

Nate

[brewmonkey]

First problem I see is the beer itself.

The next problem I would see is that you are pushing 14PSI through 5' of probably 5/16" hose. To much pressurefor such a short run but if you turn down the pressure on this particular type of beer you will have beer tasting flat in a few days.

My suggestion would be to first pick a different beer. If that is not something you can do my next suggestion would be to add some distance or restriction to the trunk line to cut down on the foam. I would also suggest getting that keg about 4-5 degrees cooler. It is a beer made to be poured at very low temps like 33-34F.

Here is a site that should give you some good advice.

http://www.alabev.com/draught.htm

[nstahlman]

I knew that I was going to get harrassed about the beer selection. This is my test keg to get everything worked out before I move up in the beer world.

I followed the math on the site that you recommended and with the 5' of 3/16 beer line and the faucet 2' above the keg that gave me 16 PSI.

Now I am really confused...What next to get this poor Coors Light working correctly?

Thanks,

Nate

[fretlessman71]

Maybe try chilling it down as hard as you can.... doesn't it taste better when it's that cold (i.e.; so you can't really taste it)? ;)

Seriously, it's worth a shot - I have less over-foaming problems with my homebrew when they're colder, so this might work for you.

By the way - welcome to the board! What are you going to put in your kegerator next to redeem yourself, anyway?

[nstahlman]

Originally posted by nstahlman
I followed the math on the site that you recommended and with the 5' of 3/16 beer line and the faucet 2' above the keg that gave me 16 PSI.


In addition I would agree that after ruling everything else out...my problem MUST be beer temperature. Does anyone else have an opinion on this before I figure out how to make my Haier get colder that its current coldest setting...

Nate

[nstahlman]

Originally posted by fretlessman71
What are you going to put in your kegerator next to redeem yourself, anyway?

I don't know...I might pick up a keg of Shipyard Summer Ale while I decide what else I want...

Nate

[fretlessman71]

Originally posted by nstahlman
I don't know...I might pick up a keg of Shipyard Summer Ale while I decide what else I want...

Nate

Redemption complete! Welcome aboard! :D

[Richard English]

One of the reasons why CAMRA doesn't accept as "Real Ale" any beer that is delivered by externally applied carbon dioxide is for the reasons discussed here. Over carbonation is always possible and that will spoil the taste of even the best beer.

If it's not possible to cask-condition your beer, then restrict the gas pressure to just a fraction over atmospheric; delivery needs very little pressure providing your cellar isn't too far below your bar. If there is a long drop, then I could consider using an electric pump or even lowering the dispense point. 16 psi (over two atmospheres) would seem far to high to me.

Incidentally, temperature will affect the solubility of the carbon dioxide. The lower the temperature the more will dissolve. As the temperature rises then it will come out of solution.

[danno]

Nate, does your tower have a fan to force cold air? If not, your tower is very likely several degrees warmer than the kegerator, and that temperature difference will lead the co2 to come out of suspension. One of the possible fixes (as every CAMRA member cringes) is to get a longer beer line and increase your pressure. That increase will keep the co2 in suspension even in your warmer tower. Another fix is to cool your tower...

By the way, here's Palmer's (http://www.howtobrew.com/section1/chapter11-4.html) carbonation chart for various styles.

Here is a list of typical volumes of CO2 for various beer styles:
British ales 1.5-2.0
Porter, Stout 1.7-2.3
Belgian ales 1.9-2.4
American ales 2.2-2.7
European lagers 2.2-2.7
Belgian Lambic 2.4-2.8
American wheat 2.7-3.3
German wheat 3.3-4.5

One thing I don't see on the list is BJCP Category 1A, Light American Lager (http://www.bjcp.org/finalstyles/Category01.html), which under "mouthfeel" says "Very highly carbonated with slight carbonic bite on the tongue". So, I'd first try to increase your pressure and see if it gets you going in the right direction...

(just to throw this out there, the next sentence in the BJCP mouthfeel guideline for Light American Lager is "May seem watery" :D )

[nstahlman]

Thanks Danno...

I am going to try to get my cooler a bit cooler and I was already concerned about the "warmer" tower. I am going to find a way to cool the tower or lengthen the line.

Nate

[brian92]

Originally posted by danno


Here is a list of typical volumes of CO2 for various beer styles:
British ales 1.5-2.0
Porter, Stout 1.7-2.3
Belgian ales 1.9-2.4
American ales 2.2-2.7
European lagers 2.2-2.7
Belgian Lambic 2.4-2.8
American wheat 2.7-3.3
German wheat 3.3-4.5



Does volume of co2 translate into co2 pressure requirements on the keg? If so, how do you translate the numbers?

[danno]

Originally posted by brian92
Does volume of co2 translate into co2 pressure requirements on the keg? If so, how do you translate the numbers? volumes is dependent of both temperature and pressure... here's a chart...

http://www.brewingtechniques.com/library/backissues/issue2.1/millertable.html

[brewmonkey]

Here is a good site that has the info you are looking for. The chart that danno has displayed is part of the total package. It will tell you at what temp and PSI your maximum CO2 in solution is.

http://www.homebrew.com/articles/article12018101.shtml

Here is the last paragraph of the page that sums it up nicely.

The amount of CO2 that will dissolve into your beer is dependent on two factors - temperature and pressure (refer to the PDF chart). Generally ales tend to be carbonated at the lower end, 1.9 to around 2.3; most German style lagers at around 2.4 to 2.7; and American lagers, Japanese lagers, and wheat beers at around 2.7 to 3.0. The amount of CO2 dissolved in beer is most often referred to in terms of volumes. Volumes of CO2 are defined as the volume the CO2 gas would occupy if it were removed from the beer at atmospheric pressure and 0° C, compared to the original volume of beer. Most beers in the United States contain roughly 2.5 volumes of carbon dioxide, or about 5 grams per liter. This means that if all the carbon dioxide in one liter of beer were expanded at 0° C and at one atmosphere of pressure, its volume would be 2.5 liters.

[brian92]

Thanks for the info danno and brewmonkey.

[nstahlman]

I have set my regulator according to the Chart and now I get even more foam. Is it possible that all of this could be a temperature issue since my fridge is only getting down to 39 F and any adjustments to the PSI does not reduce that amount of foam that I get?

Nate

[fretlessman71]

The warmer, the foamier, that's for sure... I'd make that your next priority, getting that temp. issue taken care of if I were you. You also might be patient a few days (if you haven't let it sit that long yet) and see if it settles down - sometimes it takes a while for gas to dissolve into solution.

[fretlessman71]

This link (http://www.realbeer.com/edu/kegerator/questions.php) right here in the Kegerator section on the home page might help too....

[Richard English]

But if you're drinking Coors it's supposed to be ice-cold and gassy (not to mention tasteless).

I have read all these discussions with considerable interest and know have a much better understanding of the complexities of serving beer using high-pressure carbon dioxide.

If your beer is too gassy, why not just turn off the gas? If it then gets too flat, turn it on again. As I said previously, you only need enough gas pressure to get the beer to the font; anything more will create excess fizz.

Frankly, I never drink beer with externally applied carbon dioxide - but then, living in England, I don't need to!

[nstahlman]

Thanks for all of the help guys. I am going to first worry about the temperature and if that doesn't work then it is most likely the gas in which case I will try Richard's advice.

Nate

[bwithka]

Was this ever resolved?

[nstahlman]

Yeah...A longer beer line and cooler temperature fixed the problem.

[fretlessman71]

Very cool! (Now pour out all that barley soda and go get that Shipyard like you promised you would! :D)

[HiRichRules]

Nate,

Is it just the first beer you pour that is foaming? If so then it has do with the beer sitting in the tower and getting warm. The warm beer will be foamy but once you "clear the beer" from the tower you should be fine. The most you should loose is a beer.

Other than that it sounds like you have everything set up properly. There is an outside chance that you got a wild keg. I only say that because it looks like you have everythign else set up properly.