Why does all Sierra Nevada taste like this? :)

[fretlessman71]

Was wondering something... When I buy any beer from Sierra Nevada, there's a certain thread of similarity between them... almost as if I could taste the brand with my eyes closed. Same thing with Young's, and Samuel Adams, and Redhook, and so many others. There seems to be a flavor "link" between all of the beers that come out of a particular brewery. Is it the yeast? The water? Both? Neither? Something else entirely? I always assumed it was the yeast, but I'd love to hear a few experts spout off on the subject....

[steveh]

While I've never noticed huge similarities in Young's products, it could be their house yeast. Might be the same for Redhook's ales. Sam Adams' beers? Never thought the Lager or the Stout or the Summer Ale were all that similar, but I guess if you stood all their lagers side-by-side, there could be some family range there.

As far as the Sierra Nevada beers - Cascade hops. SN seems to have cornered the market on their use! Anyone else agree?

S.

[Tweek]

This is largely due to water. Water has a huge effect on beer, that is why homebrewers are always trying to duplicate water from famous brewhouses. There are other things that contribute to similarities, such as yeast/grains/hops but that would differ from house to house.

[steveh]

Originally posted by Tweek
This is largely due to water. Water has a huge effect on beer, that is why homebrewers are always trying to duplicate water from famous brewhouses.

While I'd agree with this when it comes to the heavy gypsum content of Burton on Trent ales or the extremely soft water as that of the city of Pilsen, I don't know how much Chico's water has to do with the flavor of SN's beers.

These days, most of the U.S. city's water supply has gone through plenty of filtering and purification that I don't think it's a significant contributor to a beer's flavor. SN could be adding minerals or softening their water, but I've never heard that reported - I think they rely on their original recipe(s), and those Cascade's, for their trademark flavor.

S.

[Tweek]

I disagree I notice a diference in my beers (same recipes) when I move apartments. There is diferent mineral content in waters all over and I assure you the water in Chico is diferent than the water at my place.

[steveh]

Interesting that you can notice that much of a difference btween apartments - could be plumbing? Maybe because I've always used Lake Michigan water, in one way or another, in my home-brew I've never noticed any significant flavor differences - or in those of my home-brew compatriots.

Do you suppose the satellite brewers of Sam Adams beers are instructed to treat the waters in their breweries to match that of the Boston brewery for nation-wide consisitency? Assuming there *is* nation-wide consistency.

I'd still contend that the use of Cascades in their beer has defined the SN style we've grown to know. How many times do you find yourself comparing another American Pale Ale to Sierra Nevada's, and you usually boil it down (yes, I'll take the pun) to the hops?

S.

[threecb]

When I first read the start of this thread, I thought "Cascade Hops" immediately. I think they add to SN's trademark taste. With some of the other's mentioned I'd lean towards a combo of yeast and hops.

But after reading through this, the water argument is interesting, but I think filtering and/or treatment in a brewery atmosphere might null most of the differences that various water sources would impart...

[Tweek]

there is no doubt that hops and yeast will play a vital role in the way a beer tastes.

What I was getting at is that subtle taste that carries through in each beer from each beer manufacturer. That taste that is in even teh beers that they dont use the same ingredients in. Its the water. Water makes up the majority of your pint. For an interesting read on Water in brewing pick up Noonans brewing lager beer. He can explain it much better than I can.

[threecb]

cool...I'll have to read up on that.
thanks, tweek.

[DaddyMakesBeer]

Without trying I can think of a bunch of breweries whose beers, to me at least, are nearly all immediately identifiable as a product of that brewery: Fuller's, Rogue, Anderson Valley, Sierra Nevada, Mendocino. Call it a "house" flavor or a family resemblance.

I think this comes from a number of complex factors. Yeah, water's a key component, but I have reservations about it being *the* reason. A couple of obvious, suggested exceptions: Bass and Pilsner Urquell. (Here's an intriguing thought: What would they taste like if Bass made a pils using the PU recipe from Plzensky Prazdroj (PU's brewery), and vice-versa?)

Yeast, cleaning regimens, equipment, brewers' quirks, grain sources -- all contribute to a noticeable similarity in a breweries' products. Of those, I suspect yeast is at least as important as water. Many breweries maintain proprietary yeasts -- think Rogue and its PacMan strain -- which in my view can permeate their beers.

Finally, I've brewed in three cities with very different water -- Portland, Ore., Santa Rosa and Santa Barbara -- and my beers have always tasted like they came from my own little brewery, if ya know what I mean.

dmb

[Tweek]

I am not sure if I am being misunderstood here. If you use the same yeast or hop through your beers of course they will have a common theme taste to them. I am refering to the beers that come from brew houses that dont have common ingredients. Of course there are other reasons this one is just a major one.

[DaddyMakesBeer]

I hope I'm not misunderstanding. At bottom, I think you can often taste (and smell) a kind of house flavor in a brewery's products even if the yeast and hops, etc., are different. That's it. I believe I'll have a homebrew now.

dmb

[steveh]

Originally posted by Tweek
I am not sure if I am being misunderstood here. If you use the same yeast or hop through your beers of course they will have a common theme taste to them. I am refering to the beers that come from brew houses that dont have common ingredients. Of course there are other reasons this one is just a major one.

I think everything (everyone) is being understood - this is a fine discussion with different viewpoints and not an argument. Quite enjoyable, I wish I could have these sort of discussions at my local tavern!

If I recall correctly, doesn't Sierra Nevada use the same yeast for all of their ales (and they only make one lager, right?)? Wyeast 1056, I think? Or at least they used to. That would certainly add a house flavor to their offerings.

S.

[Tweek]

hmm that could be. If that really is the case I would think that Wyeast would advertise that more. I would if it were my company. I have never really been a sierra fan, I like the bigfoot (once it has been aged) but the rest of them I could do without. The christmas ale? I think it was christmas tasted like sucking on a redwood tree. I am not sure if that is one they do every year, anyone had that one? liked it?

[fretlessman71]

He DOESN'T like Sierra Nevada?!?!?!? Are you MAD??? Oh well... I suppose it takes all kinds to make a world. Yes, the Celebration Ale is a yearly event, as is the Bigfoot Barleywine. I, for one, am a HUGE fan of all of their stuff... maybe I'll find their yeast before I start making homebrew on my own. :)

[steveh]

Originally posted by Tweek
The christmas ale? I think it was christmas tasted like sucking on a redwood tree. I am not sure if that is one they do every year, anyone had that one? liked it?

I think you're mistaking Anchor's Annual Holiday Ale with SN's annual Celebration Ale as its seasonal beer. Anchor's Christmas is always spiced some - but I love it most years. Sorry, more for me! ;)

AFA Wyeast advertising SN using their product, I dunno. AFA I can remember, they developed the yeast for SN then adapted the 1056 from it for home brewers.

S.

[DaddyMakesBeer]

This would be a much poorer world without Sierra Nevada. This is what big brewing should be about: quality and quantity. But back going back to the original thought on this thread ... personally, I don't sense all that much "house" flavor in SN's beers (which I'll concede doesn't exactly jibe with my earlier post about yeast). True, the Pale Ale and the Celebration are clearly cousins, but that's about it. Thoughts?

As for the yeast: I hadn't heard they use the Chico strain for everything, but it makes sense. For my money as a homebrewer, it's the cleanest, most reliable yeast available.

dmb

[fretlessman71]

Been out of the brewing art for some time not... can you GET that exact yeast (Chico) for your own stuff? I'd love to know...

[steveh]

Originally posted by fretlessman71
Been out of the brewing art for some time not... can you GET that exact yeast (Chico) for your own stuff? I'd love to know...

I have a hop-head friend who's been home-brewing for about 13 years now and makes a dead-on SN Pale Ale clone. He always uses the Wyeast 1056 - because he had heard the same I did about SN actually using it.

Of note, if you ever get the chance to visit the brewery, and its outstanding - 4 star pub/restaurant, they keep a sort of "mild" version of the Pale Ale on tap there - only available there. It's basically a session version of the PA, lighter in hops and lighter in body - and reeaally good!

Man - I haven't had an American Pale Ale in so long because I had been overwhelmed by their inundation in the market - but I'm really dying for a Sierra Nevada these days!

S.

[Tweek]

hmm you know that may be that I am mixing up the anchor with the sierra christmas, its the one with the tree on the label.

I did have a second sierra beer I liked yesterday though, was the bock. I didnt even know they made one. Was damn tasty.

[threecb]

Yeah, Tweek, that was the Anchor.

The SN Celebration has a White label with an oval "snow scene". And it really is just a bigger version of the Pale Ale. I usually stay away from "Holiday" brews because of all the nutmeg and spices and whatnot that are usually added. But someone brought this to my house last Xmas and I totally dug it!

[Tweek]

ok well being the fair guy that I am I will have to give Sierras Xmas ale a chance :).

[steveh]

Originally posted by Tweek
I did have a second sierra beer I liked yesterday though, was the bock. I didnt even know they made one. Was damn tasty.

Do you mean their Summerfest. I haven't had it in a while, but I remember it being pretty good. But is it a bock? It's only 5% ABV. Unless they're making another now, the Summer was the only lager they brewed.

S.

[fretlessman71]

SN used to make a Pale Bock. Is that what we're talking about? ARe they doing it again? YIPPEE!!!!:D

[steveh]

Not according to their web-site. Hmmm.

S.

[Tweek]

It was definately the Pale bock. I had never heard of a SN bock before. I had it at a local bar Toronado here is there list of current drafts http://www.toronado.com/draft.htm . I love that place.

[jeffmac]

A few years ago, All About Beer Magazine did an article on yeast (May 1999, Vol. 19, No 2). In the article they point out beers with distinctive yeast strains and Sierra Nevada Pale Ale was one of them. It stated that the yeast strain is said to come from the old Ballantines Brewery and it went on to say how it accentuated the Cascade hops. Now, I'm not sure if this is the yeast strain used for all SN products (obviously not for the lagers anyway).

[steveh]

Originally posted by Tweek
It was definately the Pale bock. I had never heard of a SN bock before. I had it at a local bar Toronado here is there list of current drafts http://www.toronado.com/draft.htm . I love that place.

I wonder if it's available on draft only? I'll have to check out the local beer bar...wadda ya know, I'm going there for a function Friday evening! :D

S.

[DaddyMakesBeer]

Originally posted by jeffmac
A few years ago, All About Beer Magazine did an article on yeast (May 1999, Vol. 19, No 2). In the article they point out beers with distinctive yeast strains and Sierra Nevada Pale Ale was one of them. It stated that the yeast strain is said to come from the old Ballantines Brewery and it went on to say how it accentuated the Cascade hops. Now, I'm not sure if this is the yeast strain used for all SN products (obviously not for the lagers anyway).

I find that amazing cuz I remember Ballantines tasting like fermented cat urine. True, that was 30 years ago and I was just a punk, but its perfect awfulness still haunts my palate. It was so bad that I remember thinking Mickey's Big Mouth was a great leap forward.

Makes me all the more impressed with SN.