Interesting All Foam Problem w/kegerator

[brian92]

Well, my kegerator has me stumped. I put in a kegerator into my home bar about 6 months ago. The line run is about 10-12 feet and is chilled by a blower inside the chest freezer. My first 4 kegs were perfect and then my most recent keg (picked it up last Thursday) comes out all foam no matter what I do. Here's what I have checked and/or tried:

Temp set at 38
Cleaned beer lines (twice)
Tried pressure ranges from 8psi to 17psi w/ no change in foam.
Searched the messages on this board for any other ideas

I've tried to poor pitcher after pitcher to see if I just needed to get the problem out of the system w/no luck.

Anyway, I thought you all might be able to help. The keg is Erdiner Hefeweizen. The expiration date is pretty soon (8/12/04), which means the production date is 8 months prior (12/12/03). Can old beer create all foam? The only thing I can think of is the beer since I've tried everything else I can think of.

TIA

[O2 Mash]

As for the old foamy beer, If I were to speculate, I'd say yes. I brewed a Bavarian Hefe a few years ago, and it turned out great. I opened one up a month ago, and all foam. I mean A LOT of foam. After popping the bottle, it would foam for two or three minutes without even attempting to pour it. It also seemed like a "false foam" type too. Larger bubbles than normal and it dissapated rather quickly.

[brewmonkey]

Hefe's are generally packages with a higher volume of CO2. I have seen some on the 4 volumes range. When you have a beer packaged at a higher carbonation level it will need to be tuned when you put on tap. 10-12 feet is a rather long run as well for a small kegerator. Once you get into 3meters+ in trunk line length it is time to start thinking about blended gas to serve with. You might also try to get the temp down another 2-3 degrees. While 38 should be low enough and your line is cooled another guess could be that your beer is hitting 40F at the tower and causing rapid expansion.

[brian92]

So when you say that hefe's packages with a higher volume of co2, does that mean you need to set the co2 pressure higher? Thanks.

PS - I've tried changing the temp to no avail. Plus, all previous kegs worked out great, so the system should be ok. It is a new coupler though.

[brewmonkey]

Here is a site that has some good information on trouble shooting. Sadly without actually being there to see what is going on I will hesitate to give you an answer and have you end up chasing your tail. Draft lines are a huge pain in the ass, if you think 1 is fun try 12 of them that run almost 200'! :eek:

http://www.alabev.com/draught.htm

[brian92]

Thanks for all the info. If I go to blended gas, do I need to change anything else in my system? e.g. the regulator, lines, pressure settings, etc

My gas supplier has blended gas (25% co2, 75% n2) for the same cost as straight co2, so I might as well think about upgrading. Thanks again for all your help.

[danno]

My understanding is that the term "blended gas" can mean two different things. One, a commercial bar with long draws will use a gas blender to (vast oversimplification here) increase the push of co2 to a faucet far, far away. A homebrewers use of "blended gas" is more often referred to as "beer gas", which is the typical Guinness mixture of co2 and n2 and blended in the tank prior to dispensing...

perhaps one of our leading experts can lend a clarification here...

[brian92]

I think you're right danno, but hopefully one of the experts here can chime in. I'm guessing that long draw systems that use blended gas are able to blend at just the right mix (N2 to CO2) to balance the system. Since I can't do that (I'm stuck with 75%/25%), the only thing I could change is the length of the line.

[fretlessman71]

Dumb question from someone who doesn't know what he's talking about (sometimes it takes an uncommon, uneducated mind to come up with different solutions, and that's the only reason I'm commenting here):

If you had a blended gas [tank?], and one with CO2, is there a way to use some sort of a Y-connector to have both of them feeding the same system? If so, could you put a valve on each one, controlling the amount of gas sent by each one, like a hot/cold water faucet? This way, you'd have more control over your mixture (i.e.; blended full-on + CO2 @ 50% might equal 50/50 N2 to CO2). Is there a specific reason why this won't work? It's probably dangerous, but if I don't ask this question now, I might try it with disastrous results in the future.... :rolleyes:

[brewmonkey]

A gas blender does just that. Instead of buying pre-mixed "beer gas" it is done on site. We use bulk CO2 (liquid tank) and generally a "K" cylinder of Nitrogen. McDantim blenders are IMHO the best on the market but a simple 2 line blender will run you about $800-900. You must order a mixer preset with the blends you want, I was using 65/35 (CO2/N) to push almost all my beers but was using 25/75 (CO2/N) to push my nitrogen lines. This is not just for long draw systems though, it is used for bulk serving tanks in pubs. When you might have a beer that is in serving tanks for several weeks being pushed with straight CO2 you will end up with overcarbonated beer. When it comes to the long draw systems it allows you to push with a higher pressure while decreasing the risk of overcarbonation as not all the gas is CO2.

It is over simplified here but that is the basics of it. Most long draw systems though do not just use gas to get to the bar. I had pumps that were inline from the tanks/kegs to the bar. The pumps were driven by an air compresser as the air does not come into contact with the beer and only drives the diaphragm on the pump. With the pumps I could keep minimal pressure on the tank and make the pumps push the beer at the required pressure to hit the taps perfectly.

[theincumbent]

Ok,

So here is MY interesting foam problem. I am running a dual tap freezer-converted kegerator. My temp is at 40 F, with 5ft of beer line on both faucets.

My first faucet is tapped with a 1/6 of Dogfish Head 90 Minute.

My second is tapped with a 1/6 of Victory Golden Monkey.

The Dogfish pours beautifully, the Golden monkey pours at 100% foam. Both have been sitting for over 24 hours, at 6 PSI.

HELP! I can't lose a keg of the Monkey!!

Also, would the fact that Golden Monkey is bottle/cask - conditioned have anything to do with the foam.

Sorry for the excessive post, any help is much appreciated.

James

[brian92]

James - Have you elimnated the possibility of it being the faucet or the coupler? i.e. you can just switch the faucets and the couplers (if they are the same) and see how the Monkey pours. If you still have the same problem, it's likely to be an issue with the keg. Just my 2 cents though as a newbie.