Black & Tans....

[fretlessman71]

Is there a new definition for the Black & Tan beer? I always thought that it was a half pint of Guinness floated on top of a half pint of Harp....

I tried to do this at home several times but just ended up mixing the two. Not quite the visual effect I was after, but not bad. Anyone know how to do this?

Is it still called a half and half in the UK and Ireland? Why?

(Am I showing my extreme newbieness by starting this thread? :rolleyes: )

[fuji6100]

In recent times I've heard of Guiness/Harp referred too as a Half and Half, and Guiness/Bass as a Black and Tan... at least that's how all the pubs around here serve it.

When trying this at home you won't be able to reproduce it unless you get the cans with the nitrogen cartridge in them. Guiness on tap has both Co2 and Nitrogen, which allows it to float.

Even when I got lucky with one of the nitrogen-cartridge bottles it only stayed separate for about 3 minutes and then mixed together.

Guiness over Bass is one of my favorite pub beers By the way!

[steveh]

Originally posted by fretlessman71
Is there a new definition for the Black & Tan beer? I always thought that it was a half pint of Guinness floated on top of a half pint of Harp....

I tried to do this at home several times but just ended up mixing the two. Not quite the visual effect I was after, but not bad. Anyone know how to do this?

There's a whole sub-thread on B&Ts and H&Hs somewhere, but I can't find it to point you there.

The trick with the Guinness float is to use the nitrogenated stout, i.e. the Pub Draught Can or the Rocket-Widget bottle. Guinness actually makes a spoon that you can set on your pint glass to dribble the stout over and thus add a little more air to it and make it lighter. Although, any good publican worth his salt can produce a B&T or H&H without gadgets.

AFA the differences between the two concoctions, I've always heard it's not very favorable to order a Black and Tan in Ireland - reason, visit your local library and check out a few books on the Irish Revolution to discover the original meaning of Black and Tans. I've always heard that a B&T utilizes an English ale for the bottom half and a H&H uses Harp Irish Lager.

But some others have pointed out that the two terms are becoming more synonomous in Ireland anymore, no grudges there I guess.

S.

[quantum24]

i cant help much with your first question as i have seen black and tans served with either bass or harp. but i do know how to pour one at home, its actually really simple. take a regular spoon (large or small, it doesnt matter; best determined by the diameter of the glass) and bend it back on itself. by this i mean bend at the junction of the "spoon" and handle so that it forms a 90 degree angle with the dome of the spoon facing up (in the direction of the handle). pour half a pint of your choice and than lower the spoon into the glass so that the "spoon" part is about half an inch above the beer, than very slowly pour guinness (can version) over the top of the dome on the spoon so that the guinness trickles over the edges and falls slowly on the surface of the other beer, slowly raise spoon as beer level goes up, and continue pouring until your glass is full. simple as that, "black and tan" should stay until your beer is almost finished.

[scamborn]

In the bars/tavern where I have worked the easiest way to make a B/T is similar to what quantum says with one exception. When bending your spoon to break the fall of the Guinness keep the cup of the spoon facing UP. this actually breaks the momentum of the Guinness better than the dome up. I've poured thousands of b/t this way without fail. It also works at home with the nitro-cans of Guiness (beamish works too, as does murphys)
It's interesting to note that since Guinness is a dry stout and has fewer residual sugars (lower final gravity after brewing) than most 'import' lagers it is not that difficult to float the darker beer on top of the lighter beer.
cheers, scamborn

[fretlessman71]

Tell you what... I'll pick a spoon that I don't have any sentimental feelings for and try it BOTH ways, and I'll let you know which one I have better luck with. Sound fair? I think I'm even going to try it with both Bass and Harp on the bottom.

Wish Harp and Bass were sold in widget cans.... wonder how they'd taste by comparison.

[steveh]

Originally posted by fretlessman71
Wish Harp and Bass were sold in widget cans.... wonder how they'd taste by comparison.

Probably a lot like Cafferey's, if you can find it any more.

So - how was the Double Chocolate?

S.

[fretlessman71]

Tried making 2 Black and Tans, as promised, and I found 2 spoons I had no problem destroying in the interest of science, and I'm happy to say that both produced a proper separation of the Guinness and Bass. Thanks for the tips! Hadn't had one of those in about 8 years! What was I thinking?....

As for the Young's DCS, it was WONDERFUL... too bad my wife didn't care for it much. I'm sure it will take some time before she's terribly interested in beer (hops are too strong; too much alcohol, etc.), but I'm thinking of making some mead -- I found a recipe that promises to produce good mead in 3 months time, so we'll see.

My wife is the only one I know who has to dip her strawberries in sugar before she eats them... she has THAT KIND of a sweet tooth. (Yes, I tried it, and yes, it was pretty good, but that's not the point.... ;) )

As long as I don't spend TOO much time on this board and don't get smashed on my brew, she's a wonderful realbeer supporter, if in spirit only... and I can live with that. (wink wink!)

[steveh]

Originally posted by fretlessman71
As for the Young's DCS, it was WONDERFUL... too bad my wife didn't care for it much.

I can't belive she didn't like it. That's too bad, she didn't even comment on the chocolate flavor? Produced without the addition of any candy flavoring at all? AFA alcohol and hops, not too much of that going on with the DBL Choc. Sounds like she's incurable. Oh well.

S.

[fretlessman71]

Originally posted by steveh
That's too bad, she didn't even comment on the chocolate flavor? Produced without the addition of any candy flavoring at all?

S.

Well, she DID comment on the fact that she could taste the chocolate a little, but she still didn't like it. She's young yet; time heals all wounds (and wounds all heels, for that matter), so we'll see. The bottle seems to say that they DO add real dark chocolate to the stuff, so your definition of "candy flavoring" may be different than mine. Personally, I'm going to go and get some more here pretty soon. :D I may try the widget cans this time just to be different (and for the interest of science, of course).

[steveh]

Originally posted by fretlessman71
The bottle seems to say that they DO add real dark chocolate to the stuff, so your definition of "candy flavoring" may be different than mine

Holy Jeez - you're right! http://www.youngs.co.uk/

All this time I've been giving them credit for coming up with a great recipe and getting that flavor only from barley malt! I'm sort of disillusioned about it all now, the luster is gone - and I may never have another.

Naaaah. ;)

S.

[fretlessman71]

OK. so now that your SARCASM is resting for a bit ;) , tell me this: Which do you prefer? The widget can, or the bottle? If it's the bottle, are there TWO different varieties, bottle cond. and brewery cond.? I always thought that bottle cond. would have a layer of sediment on the bottom, and mine (I'm pretty sure) didn't. Might be thinking of something else, but don't think so..... I think...

[steveh]

Me? Honestly, the sarcasm was only in not having another, I really didn't think that they used actual chocolate in the brew.

I prefer draught myself! But fortunately, I have a tavern neer by that keeps it as a regular. Originally I thought I liked the widget can better, thought it had more flavor. But I recently tried the bottle again and it was real tasty too, so I tend to flip a coin when I'm buying - and my store keeps singles of both available!

AFA bottle conditioning, I'm not sure. Does it say BC on the label of the bottle? Young's Special London is bottle conditioned, but that's advertised right on the label.

S.

[hopjack13]

perhaps you are going down the wrong roads? try a beer with less hop , i have a female friend who has a sweet tooth and doesn't care too much for beer but sat down at one of the local brewerys with me and was able to enjoy a few pints of the unfiltered american style hefs with lemon sqeezed in to it. it wasn't a really sweet beer but it was uncharacteristic of any other beer she'd ever had and she did enjoy it.

[Richard English]

It's not always easy to spot, especially in stouts since they are almost opaque. Most (if not all) English BCAs say "bottle-conditioned" on the label (and Young's Chocolate Stout does not - in the UK anyway). Young's SLA does.

To spot the seminent in a BCA it's usually best simply to hold the bottom of the bottle up to a strongl light and tilt it slightly. The sediment will then move slightly. Fo stouts it's usually easiest simply to pour and then look at the way that the lst drops or two falls into the head. If there's yeast it can usually be seen as a slight brown stain.

The OBBD is fairly reliable in these matters so just log on and check the brew of your choice. Go to http://www.bottledbeer.co.uk/ and type in the name of the beer under discussion.

[Bosco]

I know this thread was about B&T but I thought I'd throw my $.02 in. I've tried a few different combos w/ Guinness. For instance Black & Cherry (Sam Adams Cherry Wheat), B&T w/ Caffereys Cream Ale makes the best B&T. Black & Brown (New Castle Brown Ale). Black & Honey (Honey Brown).

[hnrblbrbrn]

Originally posted by fretlessman71
I think I'm even going to try it with both Bass and Harp on the bottom.


hmmm, sounds interesting, a Bass and Harp under Guinness would that be a b/t half and half or get a new name?

[cyanide]

Originally posted by hnrblbrbrn
hmmm, sounds interesting, a Bass and Harp under Guinness would that be a b/t half and half or get a new name?

How about abomination?